Diana's Will

[diamondBrg]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

She would be talking about entailed property, which doesn't include personal property:

Fee tail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

THANK YOU ELSPETH!

Now this is FASCINATING. :)

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by diamondBrg

Skydragon

OK, so when you say family property, do you mean everything? For instance, your mother passes and had a beautiful diamond/ruby pendant that was your grandmother's, could she leave that to you? Are you only speaking about real property (real estate) that must stay within a male lineage? What if your mother and father wanted to make provisions for you to insure that you would always have sufficient financial resources to be OK, could they do that without your brother being in charge and your having to "please" him in order to receive cash?

Although Elspeth has already answered most of your question, with respect to the jewellery, if the items are family heirlooms, they pass down the male line (blooming annoying), personal jewellery (father purchased item X for mother), she can leave it to whoever she wants. The idea of a trust fund is to ensure you have an income and most parents/grandparents ensure that at least one or two of the trustees are not related. I was only giving you a worse case scenario. If you are likely to be at loggerheads with the trustees, you can save or invest some of your income, so that if you want to be a naughty girl......

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Although the law has changed and I would have to 'phone a friend', IF my father had wanted to leave THE family property to me, he couldn't, it had to go to the eldest son, who holds it in trust for his eldest son, who holds it.....

But didn't you get at least an allowance or a dowry? And what if your brother mismanaged and the estate had to be sold - would you then have a right to a bit of the proceedings as the entail would have been broken?

As for family jewelery: my mother doesn't care much for my brother's wife but feels she has to leave her jewelery to her because she has given my brother a son.
(as an add-on later: Not that anyone believes there is much to it - my mother's family is from Silesia (now Poland), so most of what was is gone and the things the family could take with them were used to building a new life in the West... For me the most important thing left is a recipe of spiced gingerbread from the 1600s - handed down the family through all this time and still delicious when made into a reality!)


Thus she bought some extra pieces from a friend of hers who according to her husband's will may spent the whole money and other things like works of art she inherited from him as she likes as long as she is alive. But she cannot will her belongings to somebody else but his son. The problem for mother's friend is that she is ultra-Catholic and never knew that her husband was divorced till he died. She had embraced his son believing him to be her husband's nephew and only living relative. As they had no children and she had no family of her own left, she agreed to the stipulation in her husband's will, only to find out that he had lied to her, that the nephew is her husband's son and that there is another woman whith whom to share his officer's widow's pension...

Now my mother's friend is trying to spent and sell as much as she can while still alive. Problem is that she don't want to end up in poverty herself but has no idea how long she will need the money for herself... Talk about problems...

Well, my mother bought some quite pretty pieces and gave them to me, only to find that I'm not interested in jewelery myself but would have loved to have some family heirlooms (for my own future daughter-in-law?) instead. Well, she promised to think it over...

Oh, inheritance is such a bad, bad topic. I'm glad I have only one son.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

But didn't you get at least an allowance or a dowry? And what if your brother mismanaged and the estate had to be sold - would you then have a right to a bit of the proceedings as the entail would have been broken?

Oh, I was already 'financially independent', due to a rather nice legacy and professionally managed trust fund from my grandparents but father also left me an amount to spend or invest! If my brother mismanaged the estate and it has to be sold, I wouldn't get a brass farthing from the sale, but I don't see that as a problem because I was brought up, knowing my brother got everything. I only rant about the jewellery, because it is one of my weaknesses, I love the stuff, new or old but the older the better!

I knew of a woman who was instructed by her husband in his will, to sell the holiday cottage and give the proceeds to his new mistress. Her solicitor carefully checked the will, with all it's codicils and the house was duly put on the market and sold for a measly £31,000 rather than the £310,000 it was worth! Oh so sweet!

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

I knew of a woman who was instructed by her husband in his will, to sell the holiday cottage and give the proceeds to his new mistress. Her solicitor carefully checked the will, with all it's codicils and the house was duly put on the market and sold for a measly £31,000 rather than the £310,000 it was worth! Oh so sweet!

I see... LOL - I hope your acquaintance was able to buy back the cottage for an affordable price...

As for your love of jewellery: you should have been around in Germany/Austria after the war. My mother's sister is a fan of historical jewellery and silverware as well and as she was im public service at that time she could get cheap loans from the state and used them to buy a lot of beautiful pieces from refugees from the east. Quite something to look at!

[BeatrixFan]

And let us not forget the fact that Diana could have done a Joan Crawford who's will saw her give two adopted daughters $77,500 each with more money added depending on how old they were when Joan died. She gave money to her secretary, her make-up man and her housekeepers, to charities and of course, to the funeral home to cover her funeral expenses. Bear in mind that Joan was worth a multi-millions and her other two kids thought they were really going to clean up. So they sit in the lawyers office and he reads. At the very end, he reaches those immortal lines;

"It is my intention to make no provision herein for my son Christopher or my daughter Christina for reasons which are well known to them".

Joan = 1. Daughter from hell = 0.

[diamondBrg]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Oh, I was already 'financially independent', due to a rather nice legacy and professionally managed trust fund from my grandparents but father also left me an amount to spend or invest! If my brother mismanaged the estate and it has to be sold, I wouldn't get a brass farthing from the sale, but I don't see that as a problem because I was brought up, knowing my brother got everything. I only rant about the jewellery, because it is one of my weaknesses, I love the stuff, new or old but the older the better!

I knew of a woman who was instructed by her husband in his will, to sell the holiday cottage and give the proceeds to his new mistress. Her solicitor carefully checked the will, with all it's codicils and the house was duly put on the market and sold for a measly £31,000 rather than the £310,000 it was worth! Oh so sweet!

Now you have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. He spoke of his MISTRESS in his WILL and then LEFT HER THE FINANCIAL BENEFIT FROM REAL ESTATE? That man had BIG BRASS .... You know what I would have had put on his gravemarker, right?

[Skydragon]

LOL, how about and to my son & daughter, (big, big pause)...... my love!

Originally Posted by diamondBrg

You know what I would have had put on his gravemarker, right?

You mean you would have paid for a headstone!

[diamondBrg]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

LOL, how about and to my son & daughter, (big, big pause)...... my love!
You mean you would have paid for a headstone!

Well he certainly was one ignorant ... .. . ..... wasn't he!

If I was son or daughter I know what I would be giving back!!

I would have a SIMPLE marker laid down, AFTER I found out just how far I could push the envelope and not have law enforcement remove it.

[GillW]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Oh, I was already 'financially independent', due to a rather nice legacy and professionally managed trust fund from my grandparents but father also left me an amount to spend or invest! If my brother mismanaged the estate and it has to be sold, I wouldn't get a brass farthing from the sale, but I don't see that as a problem because I was brought up, knowing my brother got everything. I only rant about the jewellery, because it is one of my weaknesses, I love the stuff, new or old but the older the better!

I knew of a woman who was instructed by her husband in his will, to sell the holiday cottage and give the proceeds to his new mistress. Her solicitor carefully checked the will, with all it's codicils and the house was duly put on the market and sold for a measly £31,000 rather than the £310,000 it was worth! Oh so sweet!

I'd have sold it for £3.10 !! AND to someone I made sure would not sell it to the mistress, thereby allowing her to re-buy it & sell it for the market value!! After that he would have gone into an unmarked pauper's grave ....

[diamondBrg]

Skydragon

Funny enough while I was waking up this morning, very slowly, I thought about this deceased man, cottage and mistress story you shared and a thought crossed my mind.

Is it possible that the mistress may have preferred NOT to be named in this man's Will and her involvement with him made public? Could he perhaps be one of the SUPREME whatevers of the new century? Depending on where in the UK she lives (urban vs country) there could be some social implications for her, right?

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Oh, I was already 'financially independent', due to a rather nice legacy and professionally managed trust fund from my grandparents but father also left me an amount to spend or invest! If my brother mismanaged the estate and it has to be sold, I wouldn't get a brass farthing from the sale

I thought part of the issue here was that you can't just sell an entailed estate, at least without heavily compensating the heir.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

I thought part of the issue here was that you can't just sell an entailed estate, at least without heavily compensating the heir.

If he has mismanaged to the extent that the estate has to be sold to pay off his debts, the monies left after settlement of debts, would be taken into trust and as he has son's, I am not an heir, the money would go to his line.

He could declare personal bankruptcy, which would then leave the estate 'intact' to pass 'in trust' to his children under a stewardship agreement, (someone else is appointed to manage the estates finances). As he is not in that unenviable position, I have to admit it is not something I know a great deal about. (shoot oneself logo here)

Once the estate was settled, as I was not a beneficiary of the estate (property and heirlooms), I have no 'right' to any monies earned or raised on it. Had my brother not had sons, in the event of him turning down the reponsibility for the estate or his early demise, it would have passed to another younger brother!

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by diamondBrg

Skydragon

Funny enough while I was waking up this morning, very slowly, I thought about this deceased man, cottage and mistress story you shared and a thought crossed my mind.

Is it possible that the mistress may have preferred NOT to be named in this man's Will and her involvement with him made public? Could he perhaps be one of the SUPREME whatevers of the new century? Depending on where in the UK she lives (urban vs country) there could be some social implications for her, right?

As I understand it, she had no problem flouncing about the village telling everyone she was going to be the next Mrs ????. I think she would be called an 'in your face' individual by the youngsters.

[diamondBrg]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

As I understand it, she had no problem flouncing about the village telling everyone she was going to be the next Mrs ????. I think she would be called an 'in your face' individual by the youngsters.

Around these parts, she just might find the current Mrs would like "a word" with her about that and after the conversation was finished, she might find a dental appointment necessary?

[zhontella]

Originally Posted by diamondBrg

Around these parts, she just might find the current Mrs would like "a word" with her about that and after the conversation was finished, she might find a dental appointment necessary?

Oh My! I haven't been following this thread. Are we by any chance referring to Diana as the "current Mrs" and Camilla as the flouncy "in your face" interloper? I always thought of Camilla as being bold as brass, but I suppose some might see that as "in your face". Well, I guess they are kinda similar?

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by zhontella

Oh My! I haven't been following this thread. Are we by any chance referring to Diana as the "current Mrs" and Camilla as the flouncy "in your face" interloper?

Well perhaps if you have a chance to read the thread, you will realise that we were not talking about Camilla, who, as you know never spoke or flounced anywhere! We could of course have been refering to Diana and any of the wives/girlfriends she was trying to displace, now there the word 'flounce' is justified.