Diana's Styles and Titles


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There are exceptions like Baroness Thatcher, but they're a rarity. You can tell if a woman holds a title but her husband doesn't hold the masculine version - then she holds the title in her own right. Another example would be the Queen.
 
I used to have an internet friend (I knew him from other message boards) who considered Di's correct title as Princess Diana. When I told him what it was and that Catherine could end up being styled HRH Princess William of Wales he went off on me (not in a good way). He proclaimed he knew the correct titles because he was Canadian and he had studied British history. This little ole southern American lady had to throw her hands in the air and give up. Idiot! Glad we're not Facebook friends anymore.

She was "HRH The Princess of Wales" while married, and "Diana, Princess of Wales" with divorce. Although she was never "Princess Diana" officially, the Palace confirmed numerous times it was acceptable as she became a Princess when she married the heir to the throne and was the mother of the future King.
 
She was "HRH The Princess of Wales" while married, and "Diana, Princess of Wales" with divorce. Although she was never "Princess Diana" officially, the Palace confirmed numerous times it was acceptable as she became a Princess when she married the heir to the throne and was the mother of the future King.

Although, Diana never liked being called Princess Diana. She used to correct people on her title.
 
Although, Diana never liked being called Princess Diana. She used to correct people on her title.

That's correct and one of the reasons why she refused the offer to be styled as such after the divorce. She felt being Princess of Wales was far superior to being just Princess X, which is true as that is technically a courtesy style, rather than a title like POW.
 
That's correct and one of the reasons why she refused the offer to be styled as such after the divorce. She felt being Princess of Wales was far superior to being just Princess X, which is true as that is technically a courtesy style, rather than a title like POW.
HOW would she be offered to be given teh style of Princess Diana?? there is no way that that could happen. Princess Diana would only be if she was the daughter of a king or prince...
 
HOW would she be offered to be given teh style of Princess Diana?? there is no way that that could happen. Princess Diana would only be if she was the daughter of a king or prince...

I believe all it would have taken for this to happen is for HM, The Queen to deem it so. Remember, this has happened before in 1957 when The Queen made Philip a Prince of the UK. :D
 
I believe all it would have taken for this to happen is for HM, The Queen to deem it so. Remember, this has happened before in 1957 when The Queen made Philip a Prince of the UK. :D
that's hardly teh same, he was made a prince as he was the queen's husband. Diana was hardly goig to be given the privilege of being "Princess Firstname.." when she was leaving the RF.. People kept saying this a few years ago when Kate married William, that she was going to be given the title of "Princess Catherine" rather than "Princess William or HRH the Duchess of X".. which was not going to happen.. The only time the Q has done this was to give Princess Alice duchess of Gloucester the right to call herself Princess Alice, and that was when she was the wife of a prince and had done a lifetime of royal service. I dont beleive there was ever any "offer" that Di would be "Princess Diana".
 
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I have absolutely no clue if this kind of an offer was ever on the table at the time of divorce or not. I was just pointing out that if HM wanted to create Diana a princess in her own right, she can do it. :D
 
that's hardly teh same, he was made a prince as he was the queen's husband. [...].

Philip is a born Prince anyway with "full quarters" as we say.
His four grandparents were
- King George of Greece, Prince of Denmark
- Grand-Duchess Olga Konstantinovna of Russia
- Prince Ludwig Alexander von Battenberg
- Princess Viktoria von Hessen-Darmstadt

Yes, Philip was created a Prince of the United Kingdom in his own right, but to begin he was already a Prince of course.
 
¨...] I was just pointing out that if HM wanted to create Diana a princess in her own right, she can do it. :D

That is technically true, but the only British princes are the one in the royal family, there are no other princes in the peerages of the United Kingdom. And Diana was actually leaving that family, so it would be strange to create her with a title after leaving while she had no any title on her own right, when she was in the royal family....
 
Well yes obviously. I cannot believe that there was ever any offer to allow Diana a privilege that has not been given to any other royal wives, except for Prss Alice...
The whole sticking point about her post divorce title was that I think she wanted to keep the HRH, which would keep her included as a royal and the queen did not want to allow her to have this.. Diana is said to have said that she didn't care about her title and would be all right as "Lady Diana" but when she realised that losing her HRH would mean that she had to curtsy to other royal women, she was unhappy about it.. So why would the queen offer her something that was keeping her in royal rank? Technically yes she could but there was no way she was going to do that.
 
So why would the queen offer her something that was keeping her in royal rank? Technically yes she could but there was no way she was going to do that.

The only reason I can think of that would make the offer feasible is that even though Diana was divorced from The Prince of Wales, she would still be the mother of a future monarch.
 
And, extremely popular. She will be for, always, The Princess of Wales, even though, that title now belongs to Camilla. She, wisely, used the Duchess of Cornwall. The queen knew that Diana's popularity, plus she would be the mother and grandmother of future kings or queens. When William is king, should would be the King Mother.
 
She would definitely be the king's mother but she wouldn't have the title of The King Mother or even The Queen Mother such as the Queen's mum was Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother. In order for that to happen, Diana would have had to actually been Queen herself. QEQM used that specific styling to differentiate herself from her daughter as they both had the same first name.

Regarding popularity and honorifics and titles and styles and all that happy hoopla, as a staunch traditionalist, HM, The Queen sought to not just do right by Diana, but also saw that things were done properly. Diana's style denoted that she formerly held the title of Princess of Wales. Same with Sarah, Duchess of York. Should Andrew remarry, Sarah could still continue with her present styling but Andrew's new wife would be The Duchess of York. Same thing if Diana had lived. Diana would still be Diana, Princess of Wales (unless she remarried of course) and Camilla could legally be styled as The Princess of Wales.
 
HOW would she be offered to be given teh style of Princess Diana?? there is no way that that could happen. Princess Diana would only be if she was the daughter of a king or prince...

It's a technicality, but "Princess Diana" is not a style, it's a title.

The Queen can theoretically bestow royal titles on whoever she wants to, so if she had wanted to make Diana a Princess in her own right she could have - likewise with Camilla, Catherine, Sophie, Sarah, and similarly with Tim, Mark, and Anthony - as she did with the DoE. She could ask decide to allow a woman who is a British Princess by marriage to use her own name in her title, instead of her husband's - if she wanted to, she could go to Princess Michael of Kent and say "from now on I think you should be called Princess Marie Christine of Kent".

But, doing both kind of goes against British tradition and custom, and so it's kind of unlikely.



that's hardly teh same, he was made a prince as he was the queen's husband. Diana was hardly goig to be given the privilege of being "Princess Firstname.." when she was leaving the RF.. People kept saying this a few years ago when Kate married William, that she was going to be given the title of "Princess Catherine" rather than "Princess William or HRH the Duchess of X".. which was not going to happen.. The only time the Q has done this was to give Princess Alice duchess of Gloucester the right to call herself Princess Alice, and that was when she was the wife of a prince and had done a lifetime of royal service. I dont beleive there was ever any "offer" that Di would be "Princess Diana".


In a way, Princess Alice wasn't the only wife of a British Prince to use her own name, and the circumstances were very atypical.

King George V had 4 sons to survive into adulthood, Edward, Albert, Henry, and George, who married Wallis, Elizabeth, Alice, and Marina. Edward, of course abdicated in order to marry and his wife was denied the right to use her husband's Royal styles, remaining "simply" a Duchess. Albert became King, so Elizabeth became Queen, and Marina was a Princess of Greece and Denmark in her own right.

Legally, as she became a British subject after her marriage, Marina wasn't supposed to use her foreign titles, but after her husband's death and her son's later marriage she decided she didn't want to be titled as The Dowager Duchess of Kent and asked to be able to use her own name. The Queen allowed it, and so she became known as Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent.

Going forward to 1974, there were 3 surviving daughters-in-law of George V - Wallis, Elizabeth, and Alice (Marina having died in 1968). Wallis was still denied the use of Royal titles, Elizabeth was Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother, and Alice was the new Dowager Duchess of Gloucester, her husband having died that year and her son already being married. So, as the only daughter-in-law who was both recognized as a Royal and not having a title of her own, it was kind of logical to have her use Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester (similar to Marina), instead of The Dowager Duchess of Gloucester (more comparable to Wallis).
 
She would definitely be the king's mother but she wouldn't have the title of The King Mother or even The Queen Mother such as the Queen's mum was Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother. In order for that to happen, Diana would have had to actually been Queen herself. QEQM used that specific styling to differentiate herself from her daughter as they both had the same first name.

Rof Wales.
True, I dont know where this nonsensical thing came about Diana wanting to be "King Mother" if Charles were out of the succession.. There is no such title. Never has been. And even if Diana had become the Kings' mother, had she been alive when Will became King, she would not as far as I know have been queen Mother, since as you say, she had never been a queen. As far as I recall, Diana issued a statement, during the divorce talks, about her future title, and the queen was annoyed and countered with her own statement to say that Diana's title and future role etc were not decided yet. At the time, some though that it was not kind of the queen to take away her HRH, and that as the mother of a future King, she should retain that, but I think that Diana's behaviour made her mother in law more annoyed and reluctant to be generous to her...
 
Did people refer to Alexandra and Mary as anything other than Queen Alexandra and Queen Mary once their husbands died and the son became king? The use of Queen Mother seemed logical in 1952 since mother and daughter shared a first name. Once Diana and Charles divorced, Diana wasn't going to be confused with William's Queen.

The template was already set for the wife of a peer who has divorced the peer by the time of the Wales divorce. It's First Name, Title. The becoming of a royal was tied to marrying one instead of being born one so if you divorce the Royal then the trappings of royalty such as the HRH should be lost.


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Wouldn't they be called Queen Dowager?
 
Both were occasionally referred to as Queen Dowager, I believe, but most of the time they were just 'Queen Alexandra' and 'Queen Mary'. It got a bit crowded there for a very short time in 1952, when Queen Elizabeth came to the throne and her widowed mother and grandmother were still alive.
 
Queens Alexandra and Mary could have both used either Queen Mother or Dowager Queen. Alexandra I believe used neither. Queen Mart was against using Queen Mother as she felt it implied she was old, but she did use Dowager Queen at the end of her life when there were 3 Queens (herself, her daughter-in-law, and her granddaughter).

The Queen Mum used Queen Mother to distinguish herself from her daughter (as they shared the same name) and initially her mother-in-law (who was also a Dowager Queen, but no longer the Queen Mother).

Interestingly, there has been a title of The King's Mother used, by Henry VII's mother, Margaret Beaufort. She was never a Queen herself, but I think the title was viewed necessary as Henry's mother-in-law, Elizabeth Woodville, was a Dowager Queen of England (and a former Queen Mother), so this helped elevate Margaret to an equal standing.
 
Let's stay on topic.
 
Princess Alice requested the title of Princess Alice and the queen granted it. William if he were king and his mother were still alive, could grant whatever he wished. Remember, the queen offered to restore Diana's HRH when she died. It was rejected by her brother.
 
Princess Alice requested the title of Princess Alice and the queen granted it. William if he were king and his mother were still alive, could grant whatever he wished. Remember, the queen offered to restore Diana's HRH when she died. It was rejected by her brother.


I didn't know that! That's fascinating about the Queen offering a posthumous HRH


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I didn't know that! That's fascinating about the Queen offering a posthumous HRH


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I dont know if it is true. If so, it was clealry an appeasement gesture..
 
COUNTESS;189075 [... said:
Remember, the queen offered to restore Diana's HRH when she died. It was rejected by her brother.

That is not possible. Her Royal Highness / Your Royal Highness is no title. It is a form of address, like The Right Honourable, Her Excellency, Her Grace, The Reverend, etc. Giving a form of address to a deceased person is pretty useless.
 
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its not JUST a form of address.. it is a significant three letters that would have given her a royal status when she was buried.. I agree that it is not likely the queen would have offered it; and I think that it IS likely that if she had, at that time, in order that Diana could have had royal status in death, Charles Spencer would have then refused it as "too late."
 
I don't understatnf question from Post 1, sorry

I think that the Original poster was asking if Diana's title/name/way of referring to her -would change when William is King..
it wont.. she will still be referred to as Diana Princess of Wales
 
I think that the Original poster was asking if Diana's title/name/way of referring to her -would change when William is King..
it wont.. she will still be referred to as Diana Princess of Wales

Yeps. Unless (let's say for example) she married Hasnat Khan. Then she'd be Mrs. Hasnat Khan and lose the courtesy styling as an ex-wife of a peer.

William's addressing her as "mum" would never change. Ever.
 
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