Diana's Styles and Titles - Page 24

branchg · #**461** 08-06-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

IMHO her complete name would have been according to the rules governing the names, titles and styles of the peerage and their families:

Her style: Lady (derived from her father as she was the daughter of an earl)
First Name: Diana Frances
Family Name; Windsor (as Charles was a HRH at the time of the wedding, thus his family name is only Windsor according to HM's decree)
Title (according to the rules for divorced peeresses): Princess of Wales.

Thus she was Lady Diana Frances Windsor, Princess of Wales, in short (as it is custom for divorced peeresses): Diana, Princess of Wales with a right to the Style of My Lady or Ma'am.

But correct me if I'm wrong.

This was the correct form after the divorce. As the wife of a Prince of the UK, Diana enjoyed the style and attribute of HRH and the rank of a Princess. With divorce, she lost these attributes and was no longer a princess, but was allowed to retain her former title as a style until she remarried. This is the same precedent used for divorcees in the Peerage.

However, as the mother of a future king, The Queen granted Diana unique precedence and place, stating she would remain a member of the royal family and be granted her former precedence on all state and national occasions. The idea here being that Diana would not be banished to the back row during these occasions, but allowed appropriate place next to William and Harry as their mother.

After the initial announcement, the Palace clarified Diana would be "considered" a Princess (similar to Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester) with the grace of The Queen, stating the appropriate form of address was "The Princess" or Ma'am in conversation. Again, The Queen was walking a fine line for the sake of her grandsons.

But Diana and Sarah officially lost their status and titles with divorce, as confirmed by the issuance of letters patent in August 1996, stating a former wife of a Prince of the UK would not be entitled to enjoy or hold the attribute of a Royal Highness.

branchg · #**462** 08-06-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimebear

Her position was different in the fact that, as mother of the future king, she retained a place as a member of the Royal Household. This didn't make her a princess. I also have a hard time believing that she stood next to Charles at State functions after the divorce, although I would be happy to be proven wrong as that would make for an interesting scenario.

I believe it is more accurate to say that Diana no longer enjoyed the rank of a royal princess (which was derived solely from marriage), but retained unique precedence as the mother of Prince William, including being allowed to retain the dignity and style of a Princess with The Queen's consent.

She was still considered to be a princess, but downgraded by the loss of HRH as a divorcee.

Princess B · #**463** 08-08-2008, 12:58 PM

Why would she be Lady Diana Frances Windsor, Princess of Wales, shouldnt it have been Lady Diana Frances Spencer, Princess of Wales?

jcbcode99 · #**464** 08-08-2008, 01:09 PM

Wouldn't it actually be Windsor-Mountbatten rather than Windsor?

<edited to move the off-topic subject into the http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...iana-2444.html thread>

Sister Morphine · #**465** 08-08-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcbcode99

Wouldn't it actually be Windsor-Mountbatten rather than Windsor?

Close..................

Quote:

Though the Royal House is named Windsor, it was decreed, via a 1960 Order-in-Council, that those male-line descendants of Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip who were not Princes or Princesses of the United Kingdom should have the personal surname Mountbatten-Windsor.[28] In practice all of their children, in honour of their father, have used Mountbatten-Windsor as their surname (or in Anne's case, her maiden surname). Both Charles and Anne used Mountbatten-Windsor as their surname in the published banns for their first marriages.[29]

branchg · #**466** 08-08-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess B

Why would she be Lady Diana Frances Windsor, Princess of Wales, shouldnt it have been Lady Diana Frances Spencer, Princess of Wales?

Correct. As the wife of a Prince of the UK, Diana never used the surname Mountbatten-Windsor because she was a Royal Highness and Princess. She did occasionally use the surname "Wales" when necessary.

With divorce, she was Lady Diana Spencer, Princess of Wales.

Jo of Palatine · #**467** 08-09-2008, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess B

Why would she be Lady Diana Frances Windsor, Princess of Wales, shouldnt it have been Lady Diana Frances Spencer, Princess of Wales?

Why and when should she have reverted back to her maiden name? For her style as a "Lady", you keep that after marriage, but you change your family name and after divorce, normally you keep the family name you took on marriage.

As for the Mountbatten-Windsor: as Charles, from whom Diana took her new family name, was a Royal Highness and a Prince as a male-line descendant of the queen and the DoE, his family name was plain Windsor according to the queen's degree.

wbenson · #**468** 08-09-2008, 05:03 AM

However, he did have "Mountbatten-Windsor" printed on the marriage registry (as did Anne). Officially, his last name is Windsor but he seems pretty intent on using Mountbatten-Windsor whether he should or not.

TheTruth · #**469** 08-09-2008, 09:23 AM

A few posts concerning Charles and Diana's relationship shortly before her death have been moved here. The Charles & Diana thread is now reopened so you can go on with the discussion there.

Thank you,

TheTruth
British Forum Moderator

branchg · #**470** 08-09-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

Why and when should she have reverted back to her maiden name? For her style as a "Lady", you keep that after marriage, but you change your family name and after divorce, normally you keep the family name you took on marriage.

As for the Mountbatten-Windsor: as Charles, from whom Diana took her new family name, was a Royal Highness and a Prince as a male-line descendant of the queen and the DoE, his family name was plain Windsor according to the queen's degree.

The Mountbatten-Windsor surname only applies to those descendants of The Queen and Prince Philip who do not hold and enjoy the style of HRH and Prince/Princess. Royals do not use surnames in most cases because they are titled.

Diana did keep the "family name" of Wales after divorce. Her former title became a style, similar to a surname, until she remarried.

RoyalProtocol · #**471** 08-09-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by branchg

Correct. As the wife of a Prince of the UK, Diana never used the surname Mountbatten-Windsor because she was a Royal Highness and Princess. She did occasionally use the surname "Wales" when necessary.

With divorce, she was Lady Diana Spencer, Princess of Wales.

With the 1st part I concur though with the 2nd I beg to differ using the principle of general names after a divorce, Miss Jane Parker marries Mr. John Smith thus becoming Mrs. John Smith, they later divorce and Mrs. John Smith becomes Mrs. Jane Smith, therefore why would Diana readopt Spencer after her divorce, her title was Diana, Princess of Wales. There was no need for the Lady or the Spencer part which she relented on her marriage. The Lady was also eridacated by her elevation to a higher title though had she only married a commoner she would have been The Lady Diana Smith.

Duchess · #**472** 08-10-2008, 08:10 AM

not sure how it works in the UK but here it's very common for a woman to revert to her maiden name after a divorce. it's also common for a woman to continue to use her maiden name while married....i.e. Jane Parker would continue to be Jane Parker after marrying John Smith.

branchg · #**473** 08-10-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalProtocol

Therefore why would Diana readopt Spencer after her divorce, her title was Diana, Princess of Wales. There was no need for the Lady or the Spencer part which she relented on her marriage. The Lady was also eridacated by her elevation to a higher title though had she only married a commoner she would have been The Lady Diana Smith.

Her style was "Diana, Princess of Wales" with divorce. It was no longer a title because she was no longer the wife of The Prince of Wales.

Legally, she reverted to her birthright title and precedence as the daughter of an Earl, Lady Diana, with the style of "Princess of Wales" as a divorcee. Since this style is technically royal, it was unnecessary for her to use "Lady Diana", especially since she continued to be considered a princess.

Skydragon · #**474** 08-10-2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess

not sure how it works in the UK but here it's very common for a woman to revert to her maiden name after a divorce. it's also common for a woman to continue to use her maiden name while married....i.e. Jane Parker would continue to be Jane Parker after marrying John Smith.

Exactly the same it is up to the couple involved, but now the 'fashion' is for double, triple or more barreled names, such as, Francesca Smith-Jones-Smyth-Palmer-Parker-Thompson.

JanSpencer · #**475** 08-22-2008, 06:05 PM

So as I know (from the Press) The Queen offered her the Titel HRH, Princess Diana.The question is whether this is true...but if that is the case..why did she refused?

sirhon11234 · #**476** 08-22-2008, 06:19 PM

The alimony would have been lower.

Jo of Palatine · #**477** 08-23-2008, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbenson

However, he did have "Mountbatten-Windsor" printed on the marriage registry (as did Anne). Officially, his last name is Windsor but he seems pretty intent on using Mountbatten-Windsor whether he should or not.

Once he is king, he can officially change the name of the family to Mountbatten-Windsor or even adopt a different name altogether.

Elspeth · #**478** 09-19-2008, 10:32 PM

I've moved the discussion about the Earl of Wessex possibly assuming the Duke of Edinburgh title at some point in the future to the Questions about Titles thread in the main British forum.

Elspeth
British Royals moderator

branchg · #**479** 10-04-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhon11234

The alimony would have been lower.

Correct. The title of "HRH Princess Diana" was offered with the understanding she would accept a smaller lump-sum amount, with payment for the rest paid out over her lifetime.

The offer was also contingent on Diana agreeing the Palace would continue to oversee her activities in the public realm, similar to the arrangement while separated. In the end, she decided to forgo the offer in favor of her financial and personal freedom from the royal family.

Earl Spencer said after her death that she was satisfied with her style and title after the divorce.

georgiea · #**480** 10-21-2008, 07:56 AM

I think Diana, Princess of Wales knew deep down, after her divorce, that she was the Peoples Princess. At least I hope so.

Any woman going through a bad divorce, I beleive, and given the two options of a little yearly money, ties to the BRF and the HRH title would go for the larger lump sum, freedom from the BRF and no HRH.