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  #281  
Old 01-21-2018, 04:25 PM
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I don't think she was ever meek or timid. Remember early on at Balmoral she would leave the table or go upstairs, that for me in hindsight is the beginning of the "I'm going to be queen" persona starting to emerge. She didn't respect the RF even then. All the tantrums and shenanigans were part of the package she brought to the altar when she reeled in the big fish which were unbeknownst to most of us at that time IMO. You can only imagine what went on behind closed doors. She even played her children against their family. Whether it was embarrassing HM or sticking a knife in Charles's back, she was #1. Kowtow. When the Bashir interview backfired, she must have been seething when told to divorce. Without the RF she had nothing. You can say she was kind and loving etc. to the outside world, sure, "centerstage", "adore me" but I doubt she would have done charity anything if she hadn't married into this family. The true purpose of these tapes we can only guess, yet, I doubt its anything positive for the Firm. Instead of moving on, IMO she spent her time obsessing in how to destroy everyone in the RF. If she had had the length of years and remarried, other than a husband name change, who knows, but I do know a leopard can't change its spots.
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  #282  
Old 01-21-2018, 05:22 PM
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I do think early on she was overwhelmed. I don't think she was meek or timid no. Overwhelmed yes. Immature yes. Impulsive yes.

There was a lot to deal with even for an emotionally 'level' person let alone a 19/20 year old with emotional/eating issues. Things just never got a solid footing with them, and really they should of separated long before they did. That might of headed off all the nasty stuff that played out publically.



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  #283  
Old 01-21-2018, 05:46 PM
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Diana was a master at manipulation. She moved people around her like they were pawns on a chessboard. Playing royal chess though was a grand mistake. Its one thing to try and manipulate those close to her like Charles as the husband when newly married or rearranging the staff to suit her or even controlling a love affair but to try and manipulate the press against a centuries old institution was just idiotic and a big sign of a sense of self importance that far exceeded who she really was. It backfired on her horribly with consequences that couldn't be undone.

Diana was also a person very much in the "now" and manipulated the "now" without much thought to the backlash or consequences of her actions. She actually loved the press attention and how she could play push you, pull me with them to attain what she wanted to get out yet when the press would turn against her, she couldn't figure out why. To me, this is shown to be a major part of her life up until her death as Richard Kay of the Daily Fail was one of the last people to talk to Diana before she died. This shows me that she actively wanted the public to know where she was, who she was with and what she was doing. She needed the public opinion behind her as a little one uses a security blanket.

She got along famously with those that she met out and about during public engagements but those were people that admired her, held her in high esteem and gazed up at her as a wonderful person. She fed on that to make up for the misery she was experiencing in her private life where it seemed, to her, that everyone in some form or the other, was against her.

What is sad is that Diana never grew to be a strong woman and comfortable in her own skin. The person she should have been learning how to manipulate and trust and have confidence in was herself and I don't think she ever really realized that. The answers were always "out there" somewhere.
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  #284  
Old 01-21-2018, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Diana was a master at manipulation. She moved people around her like they were pawns on a chessboard.
What is sad is that Diana never grew to be a strong woman and comfortable in her own skin. The person she should have been learning how to manipulate and trust and have confidence in was herself and I don't think she ever really realized that. The answers were always "out there" somewhere.
For Goodness sake, how did she "Move people around" or "manipulate people?" She couldn't do anything. She tired to make the RF like her, not because she was some Evil manipulating queen but because she was a lonely person who wanted people to like her, who hoped they would be her family. They didn't really take to her, because she didn't understand them..and after the first year or so, had clearly not really welcomed her that much because she didn't fit in with them that well. She couldn't even kepe her husband away from his mistress, how is she this super manipulator...
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  #285  
Old 01-21-2018, 06:02 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Pranter, I daresay she was overwhelmed early on. As the years passed, I think, JMO, she was more overwhelmed with all the havoc she created as it was starting to catch up with her.

Agree Osipi in all you say.

Denville, she needed to learn to like herself first and unfortunately, never got around to doing that.
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  #286  
Old 01-21-2018, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
For Goodness sake, how did she "Move people around" or "manipulate people?" She couldn't do anything. She tired to make the RF like her, not because she was some Evil manipulating queen but because she was a lonely person who wanted people to like her, who hoped they would be her family. They didn't really take to her, because she didn't understand them..and after the first year or so, had clearly not really welcomed her that much because she didn't fit in with them that well. She couldn't even kepe her husband away from his mistress, how is she this super manipulator...
To me, this manipulation was obvious in her behavior when first married to Charles by the various reports of tantrums, extreme behavior such as "throwing herself down the stairs" and cutting herself and amid all of that, the bulimia. This was a fight for control. To make someone do something that she wanted them to do.

There's also the various reports of those that left royal service to Diana and Charles household solely because of Diana. There's actually a pretty good list of them. This, to me, is manipulating the people around her. If she liked you, you were in. Cross her in any way and out you goes.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/PRINC......-a061101119

She very much manipulated (or tried to) the press and control what the public saw in regards to her image. There are just far too many cases of this to even start to list them all.

So, in my book, yes. She was a manipulator. She also found that there were just some things that she couldn't play with without getting burned.
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  #287  
Old 01-22-2018, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missjersey View Post
You can only imagine what went on behind closed doors. She even played her children against their family. Whether it was embarrassing HM or sticking a knife in Charles's back, she was #1. Kowtow. When the Bashir interview backfired, she must have been seething when told to divorce. Without the RF she had nothing. You can say she was kind and loving etc. to the outside world, sure, "centerstage", "adore me" but I doubt she would have done charity anything if she hadn't married into this family.
Wondering if she actually was 'shell shocked' by the announcement of divorce proceedings. If by then, she was more than uncomfortable with the dishonesty in the relationship, it suggests that the outcome may have been foreseen, or anticipated.

At one point in her youth, Diana impressed a director at a patient care center (Darenth) where her manner of calm in the presence of severely handicapped was noticed, and she made an impression in having some 'natural' ability for the work.. For ex, she devised a technique of dancing with someone wheelchair bound, holding the person from the rear of the chair while dancing, which the director thought was original, to come up with that on her own.
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  #288  
Old 01-28-2018, 05:56 AM
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I think she was shocked by the divorce. She had been separated from Ch for a while but the RF had clearly been reluctant to move towards a divorce and Diana may have unconsciously believed that "it would all go on as before" and they'd never actually allow a divorce. So she foolishly did the Panoroma interview and provoked the queen to the point of realising that a divorce however bad, was less bad for the monarchy than the "war" of Charles and Diana going on.
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  #289  
Old 01-28-2018, 06:44 AM
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paul barrell wrote in his book "Royal Duty" Diana did not oppose separation. She rather supported the separation. But she was outraged by the letter about the divorce.
Has anyone read Patrick Jephson, Ken Wharfe, Simone Simmons books?
How did diana react to separation and divorce in their books?
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  #290  
Old 01-28-2018, 07:19 AM
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To be absolutely honest, I don't think we'll ever know just how Diana felt about the separation and the subsequent divorce. She was a very mercurial person and could change what she thought and felt about something on a dime. One thing we do know is that she didn't walk away from the marriage ready to move on in her life. There are just too many instances where its blatantly obvious that she carried resentment and bitterness and was still playing games of manipulation to go one up on Charles. The fact that she made these supposed tapes right before she died points to that.

I'm not sure right now if I have the Jephson book. I do have the Burrell book and the Simmons book. Basically the last two are pretty much slanted in Diana's favor as Burrell paints a picture of how important he was to Diana and Simmons basically only knew Diana after Charles was pretty much out of the picture.
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  #291  
Old 01-28-2018, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think she was shocked by the divorce. She had been separated from Ch for a while but the RF had clearly been reluctant to move towards a divorce and Diana may have unconsciously believed that "it would all go on as before" and they'd never actually allow a divorce. So she foolishly did the Panoroma interview and provoked the queen to the point of realising that a divorce however bad, was less bad for the monarchy than the "war" of Charles and Diana going on.
Agreed. I have always thought that Diana didn't 'get' it, that she thought she was untouchable for most of her marriage. However, that may have changed by the time of the Panorama interview. A lot was coming down by that point (Morton book, Hewitt book, phone stalking a married man with criminal charges pending). She was in a 'royal mess'. All her survival instincts may have been up and alert (she after all had just seen Sarah suffer a divorce when lovers came to light).

If one looks at what Diana actually said in that interview it is riddled through with inconsistencies and glaring appeals to the public to be 'on her side' (like her stating she would never be queen, would be the princess of people's hearts, that the RF thought she was bonkers, etc). It's as though she knew a divorce was possible at that point (maybe 'in the wind'? would she have known that Charles was petitioning his mother to allow a divorce? was there a timeline?)

Diana was nothing if not a (public relations) survivor. (of a kind, because the flip side for her was always disaster). It was crunch time. The Panorama interview proved to the Queen that making Charles wait was pointless as long as Diana had the wallop of her status as his wife. With the Panorama interview it was as though Diana was saying to the Queen: 'I double dare you to try anything with me. I have 'the people' behind me, I am their princess. Back off.' Just speculation, but it's a curious moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aigulminimalist View Post
paul barrell wrote in his book "Royal Duty" Diana did not oppose separation. She rather supported the separation. But she was outraged by the letter about the divorce.
Has anyone read Patrick Jephson, Ken Wharfe, Simone Simmons books?
How did diana react to separation and divorce in their books?
I'd believe it. It was a come down of massive proportions. I have always felt that the animus from the public against the BRF (Queen) at Diana's death would have pleased her: sweet revenge. Pretty nasty when you think about it, and amazing.
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  #292  
Old 02-01-2018, 07:38 PM
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divorce lawyer Maggie Rae confirmed
<<Rae said Diana wanted her son William and not her husband Charles to take over as the next head of the House of Windsor.
That, in Diana’s view, was “the happiest solution for the future of the monarchy.”>>

bitter vindictive ex-wife? or what? why did she want to take throne from Charles?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...25700120080115
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  #293  
Old 02-02-2018, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by aigulminimalist View Post
divorce lawyer Maggie Rae confirmed
<<Rae said Diana wanted her son William and not her husband Charles to take over as the next head of the House of Windsor.
That, in Diana’s view, was “the happiest solution for the future of the monarchy.”>>

bitter vindictive ex-wife? or what? why did she want to take throne from Charles?
None of it makes sense. There is no logic to any of it, and that she thought she could 'take down Charles' is in itself a demonstration of hubris that one is hard pressed to account for. Where did it come from? I guess we could say she believed her press clippings, believed the spin in the tabloids. She referenced her life through the lens of what the tabloids had written, see the Panorama interview for a harrowing display of that.

At some point she became disassociated from the fact that she held whatever social position (and 'power') she did, with the consequent interest of the tabloids and public, because of Charles. That she thought she had the power of her own person to alter a dynastic succession is breathtaking really.

Reading the transcript of the Panorama interview is valuable, to see the self referencing reasoning. Tough to read no less to watch but this is where she sets a lot of spinning rationales in motion that get repeated to this day: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/po.../panorama.html

If you can suss out her motivations from this tangle of expressed 'beliefs', or points of view, let me know. I would be interested. Diana is far from a 'settled' quantity imo.
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  #294  
Old 05-24-2018, 05:17 AM
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After reading some previous posts, I almost felt I went to the wrong thread. But I agree with some posters, Diana could be very manipulative, but to some people's surprise, not always in a purpose to benefit herself. Still, no one can be a bigger manipulator than God. He really predetermined some people's fates!!!

Let us go back to the "Secret tapes Diana Recorded in March 1997". I have discovered an old piece of article, which was about a secret recording Diana made to her children. First I believe the content of the recording is authentic. But I think the report WRONGLY attributed the recording to voice coach Peter Settelen, who made some recordings with Diana during 1991-1993. I don't think that recording was made in 1991-1993; it must be, at least, after May, 1996. Therefore, most likely it is one of those she made in March 1997. The following is the link to the article. The article was published in April 15, 2003.

https://moonforlove.tumblr.com/post/...cess-diana/amp

The reason I believed its authenticity is because the following parts of recording, in which she wanted to explain to her children the reason for her affair with Hewitt.

Quote:
"It might as well have been a prison," she says. "My outside contacts were so limited -- that's why I felt so strongly for James Hewitt. I loved him because he was my escape from the royal prison wall that surrounded me."

She discusses how she fantasized about running off with the dashing army major. But then the mood changes to bitterness, and she accuses the ex-cavalry officer of betraying her "all for the sake of sex."

Smartly dressed in a blazer and blouse, Diana looks directly into the camera and says: "James always showed me the love I didn't get from Charles. But James betrayed me over the letters (the collection of love letters she had sent him while she was stationed overseas). It was devastating and vile to me...He hurt us so much. He turned out to be a total rat ... and all for the sake of sex."

She also wonders what Hewitt might do in the future. "God forbid he does anything that could hurt Wills or Harry," she prays.
We know James Hewit once published a book about his affair with Diana, which definitely had hurt Diana. But there was another rarely known story about those letters. Hewitt had once tried to used those letters to blackmail Diana for a huge amount of money in May, 1996.

According to Simone Simmons' book which published in 2005, two years after the report, she wrote a story which happened when Diana was in the final negotiations for her divorce from Charles. James Hewitt used those letters to harass Diana, threaten her he would sold them. And Diana wanted to buy them back, and Hewitt asked for 250,000 pounds.

Quote:
He was constantly telephoning her and she felt she had to take his calls. She was frightened not to. He still had those highly embarrassing letters and he used them like a chain to keep her in his thrall...Faced with that dismal probability, she decided that, if they were going to be sold, she was the one who would have to purchase them...After a number of fractious telephone calls and the assistance of an intermediary, Diana agreed to meet Hewitt and buy back the letters. Hewitt set the terms. He stipulated that the handover should take place in Spain. And he demanded that the money be paid in cash.

"He wanted two hundred and fifty thousand pounds -- and that's what I am going to give him," she told me.
Diana did fly to Spain with Susie Kassem with that money,but in the end she didn't meet James Hewitt because he refused to, with an excuse that because of paparazzi. And she was back in London the next day with the money but without having seen Hewitt.

Paparazzi photographs did so that Diana took a flight to Spain on May 3, 1996 in disguise and back to London the next day. They even reported that the trip was due to meet a mystery male friend.

The fact that she couldn't get back those letters makes it understandable why she would pray in front of camera, "God forbid he does anything that could hurt Wills or Harry."

I think it was impossible to make up such contents in 2003, two years before Simone Simmons's book in 2005. On the other hand, it implied the tapes were recorded at least after May 1996.


What I found quite amazing and justful is, that it seems the prayer did work. After about merely one or two years of her death, James Hewitt started to give away message that he was willing to sell the letters to the highest bidder. In 2000, he even went to Larry King to advise those letters for 1 million pounds (4 times higher than what he had asked from Diana). And it has been reported he had flew to America many times to meet the potential buyers. But every time, every time, he failed to sell these letters for even a single pound. The latest attempt was made in 2017, obviously he wanted to use the hype of the 20th anniversary to do some business. But he failed again, and then not long later, he suffered a stoke. God had mercy on him, he finally recovered. I highly suggest him not to try it again, for his own dignity and for God's sake.
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  #295  
Old 05-25-2018, 12:31 AM
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According to Ken Wharfe, who tried to dissuade her from sending the letters, Diana felt Hewitt was less in love than claimed, while hoping to snare a princess. Her feeling at the time was that he was "getting too serious". Letters boosted his morale overseas with the result that he talked openly about "spending the rest of their lives together".

Once he returned to England, face to face, something had radically changed. Alarmed, he called Ken in near panic, who was not about to intervene on his behalf. She discovered from Richard Kay that using a satellite phone in the Gulf to call, meant others nearby could listen, which rankled her. It must have been a nightmare of a homecoming for Hewitt to find himself put out to pasture unexpectedly, standing there in shock from it all. Soon, she would no longer receive his calls at Kensington.

Ken advised her to request a full return of the letters. When she attempted that he told her he wanted to keep them as a remembrance.
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  #296  
Old 05-25-2018, 01:53 PM
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Serves him right.. He is a pathetic excuse for man
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