Diana's Relationships with The Queen and Other Members of the Royal Family


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There were expectations of how the marriage would be by both parties going into the marriage. They were totally different and the expectations clashed like oil and vinegar. To me, it was obvious that these two people didn't sit down and talk about what they expected out of the marriage from each other.

One, perhaps, had a Barbara Cartland "happily ever after" expectation. The other had a "partner in the role they needed to play for the Firm, a mother of the heir and the spare and a support system for each other" expectation of marriage. Both didn't take the time to really find out what the other person really needed and marriage was a disappointment for both and both sought solace and support elsewhere.
 
Eating disorders are mental health issues. First and foremost. That doesn't make a person unable to function on other levels, depending on how deep this affliction goes. Diana expected a marriage. She got what was planned by Charles, a pseudo marriage. Nice on the outside and creepy on the inside. Her treason, I laugh as I write it was to want love. Her husband was giving love. Just in the wrong bed.
I'm not sure what Diana expected was a partnership marriage. It seems like she expected Charles to have her as the sun of his world and he would revolve around her. I don't think either of them had realistic expectations for a marriage involving the two of them
 
I think what both of them wanted and needed from a marriage was someone to rely on, a rock-solid sort of character who can be counted upon to always bolster the other up and never fail to listen to and acknowledge successes and accomplishments of their spouse. The problem was, neither one of them was a rock type going into that union.
 
We have seen marriages sailing near dangerous icebergs, think of Juan Carlos and Sofía, of Albert II and Paola, of Juliana and Bernhard, but these couples somehow refound mutual appreciation or even rediscovered a love lost.

I suppose Albert and Paola "rediscovered a lost love" and seem to be today genuinely devoted to each other. Juan Carlo's and Sofia's marriage on the other hand is, I'm afraid, a typical arranged marriage between members of two royal houses and nothing else besides that. They seem to accept and , in their own way, even be satisfied with that arrangement because it is natural to them, as it was also probably natural to Edward VII and Alexandra of Denmark,and to countless European kings and queens of the past. It wouldn't work though for Diana, who was from a different generation and had a different upbringing, not being royal herself. It wouldn't work either for any member of the current generation of "middle-class" queens/ future queens of Europe (Máxima, Letizia, Mary, etc.).
 
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this all seems to be goig OT, away from Di's relationsip with the RF? But I think that with regard to the post above, yes the Spanish couple are Justin an arranged marriage and are Ok with it.. but they are a very different generation to Di. I think the RF felt that if Dis' marriage didn't work out (and they DID IMO Hope that it would work out) they would QUIETLY get on with a semi detached marriage.. not go to the press or get a divorce.
 
:previous: I think you've hit the nail right on the head. Once the marriage happened, regardless of what it was like in the ensuing years, the general rule of thumb was to "keep calm and carry on". Accept that you're in a bad marriage but find alternate solutions to making it work at least as a facade in the public eye and remember duty comes first.

Diana went rogue and her ensuing behavior was so against the prescribed norm that it drove a wedge between Diana and her family by marriage. Although I cannot and will not condone many of the avenues that Diana took to lash out against those that seemed to treat her badly, I do believe that for someone like Diana to just stuff it all down and keep calm and carry on as if nothing bothered her would have been far more detrimental. Her relationships with the royal family may have been better and more civil but at what price?
 
But look at the cost of the way she DID take? She lost the respect of most of the RF.. so they would not sympathise with her when she had troubles with the press. I know a word to editors might not have the same effect in the 90s as it might have had in the 60s but the RF clearly felt "she's made her own bed, if she has to socialise with TV stars and nouveau riche people, and be chased by the press everywhere, tat's her own business."
So Diana was now out of the Royal and to an extent the upper class circle. She ended up on holiday with the Fayeds because she didn't have that many friends of her own kind who could offer her a nice secluded villa in Tuscany... or perhaps even America any more.
and her boys probably have had to realise that their mother was barely tolerated by their father's family...
I think the RF DID believe that the marriage was an ok one at first, that the 2 had a reasonable amount in common and a reasonable chance of having a hapy marriage.. but they were mistaken. and I tink that they DONT (at least the queen and Phil) approve of affairs, but they would have felt that if in a bad marriage, the thing to do is
to spend less time togeter, but when you appear at family gatherings, or in public behave nicely, and no rows that embarrass people.
And if you have an affair with someone you find more congenial, keep it discreet. make sure that there are no long phone calls or letters that the press could get hold of.. Be pleasant in public and appear together often enough that the press can't say you are never together..
choose a lover who will also be discreet...
and Charles fell down on the long phone calls. So did Diana and her main lover was NOT gentleman enough to be discreet.. so the affair got out.
But while I DO sympathise with Diana, lost in this family whom she couldn't entirely get away from, I think that the way she went about trying to sort out her marital problems was foolish and sadly led to her death....
 
A reminder please that when discussing Diana, please stay on the topic of the individual threads. This discussion should be about Diana's relationship with the Queen and other members of the royal family. We have numerous individual threads to discuss subjects such as mental health, the marriage, Diana's boyfriends etc etc.

ETA: Please note that several posts subsequent to this one have been deleted since they ignored the request to stay on topic.
 
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well what do people tink about Di and the rest of the RF? I think we've discussed her relationship with the Queen and margarret...but what about C's siblings? We don't hear much about them.. did they retain any liking for her after the separation? Andrew, Ed and anne etc? The Phillips children were friendly with Will and Harry after Di died..but what about Anne when Di was alive
 
From what I've read, Charles's siblings followed the rest of the BRF in distancing themselves after the separation though no doubt there weren't any quarrels.

Andrew of course was in the process of a painful separation/divorce himself at the time. When Diana and Sarah were friends in earlier years no doubt he was quite friendly too. However, he was also in the navy so I doubt that he and Diana saw much of each other really.

Edward had his romance with Sophie to be going on with at the time of the Wales separation and divorce, and the couple had their own circle.

Anne had nothing in common with Diana. Diana hated horse riding, Anne adored it, Anne loved Balmoral, Sandringham, the country lifestyle. Diana didn't. They could have chatted about children's charities and that would have been it, I suppose.

Of course Anne had her own marital troubles, with Mark Phillips. About the only thing I've read of regarding Anne's attitude to Charles and Diana's marriage is that she is said to have once considered writing to her brother about the way he addressed Diana (in private I suppose, not in public.)

That says a lot about the members of the BRF, I think, especially at that time. There were get-togethers at specific times of the year. However they seem, from biographies I've read, to have often communicated by notes, not face to face or by phone.

The different members led/lead separate lives and get together by arrangement because of their scheduling. During Diana's time anyway (and things may have changed though I doubt it for the older members of the BRF) they don't seem to have been a family who were used to popping into each other's homes unannounced.

So I doubt that Diana saw Charles's siblings that much anyway after she and Charles moved from BP to their own apartment at KP, and this would have continued during the separation and divorce, imo.
 
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That says a lot about the members of the BRF, I think, especially at that time. There were get-togethers at specific times of the year. However they seem, from biographies I've read, to have often communicated by notes, not face to face or by phone.

The different members led/lead separate lives and get together by arrangement because of their scheduling. During Diana's time anyway (and things may have changed though I doubt it for the older members of the BRF) they don't seem to have been a family who were used to popping into each other's homes unannounced.

This scenario is contradicted by the memoir of Charles' and Diana's housekeeper, Wendy Barry, in her book "The Housekeeper's Diary: Charles and Diana Before the Breakup". She describes visits to Highgrove by Anne and even The Queen 'dropping in' for tea and long talks with Charles. She describes Anne's children showing up to play with William and Harry. Given the obvious ease that Anne's children as grown adults evidence with William and Harry it has to be a given that they knew each other growing up, at least through Charles when they were with him.

The private lives of the royals are actually virtually unknown. When they are ensconced at Balmoral and Sandringham it's a private world. When in London they live within steps of each other.

Diana was part of all that until she began to pull away. Wendy Barry indicates that there were weekend parties and visits (she mentions Edward, who she had a special relationship with through her son who had valeted for him, and Andrew), but as the couple drew apart, they each began staying at Highgrove when the other wasn't present, so that would mean Diana would not see Charles' siblings, and that was as early as 1985/86. (I really need to read that memoir again, it's an important primary source, and I think I am losing details).
 
Evidence seems to be contradictory then. I had the impression that at lest in Buck P, the royals, perhaps its more the older ones like the queen Pss Margaret etc. were very formal and didn't drop in.
but possibly in the country, and for the younger generation of charles' age or his children, they were more informal.
I confess I can't imagine Diana being very friendly with C's siblings, even Andy and Edward who were her age. There was little common interests, but possibly she had to socialise with them as family..
 
Evidence seems to be contradictory then. I had the impression that at lest in Buck P, the royals, perhaps its more the older ones like the queen Pss Margaret etc. were very formal and didn't drop in, but possibly in the country, and for the younger generation of charles' age or his children, they were more informal. I confess I can't imagine Diana being very friendly with C's siblings, even Andy and Edward who were her age. There was little common interests, but possibly she had to socialise with them as family.

Diana played with Andrew (and Edward, I believe) as a child. She was apparently a regular visitor and it was often supposed she was a possible wife for Andrew. Someone correct me if I am wrong on this. :flowers:
 
no, she joked about marrying Andrew because she was almost the same age as him and played with him.. during her childhood. but that was when she was a kid.. I don't believe she was thought of as a wife for Andrew because he was much to young to marry, when she was going out with Charles.
 
Interesting to think about...Diana married to Andrew.


LaRae
 
All I can say is that after Diana's separation and subsequent divorce from Charles, her relationship with his side of the family probably was much like mine was. Civil but virtually non-existent. The couple were leading separate lives and unless a very strong bond had developed before the breakup with a member of a spouse's family, it rarely continues.
 
but the thing being Osipi that the RF are a bit different to most of us. Diana HAD to maintain some kind of relationship, however distant and "not very friendly" with the RF -because of their position and her sons being part of the country's premier family. She had to let her boys spend time with the queen, because they are princes and future king.. even fi she didn't really like the idea.
I think the queen did try to keep up a bit of friendly feeling both for public consumption (Di being so popular with the people) and for the kids sake but Diana was increasingly reluctant, and did not want to do things like spend Xmas with the RF, even if it meant leaving the boys there without her..
I think that while she was friendly with Andy and Ed as a child, there was not much of a bond once she grew up and as charles' wife, she problaby was more "polite friendly " with them.. than really close.
 
Interesting to think about...Diana married to Andrew.


LaRae


Diana would not have liked her husband to be home less than 7 weeks a year, that much is certain. Andrew signed up for that long RN hitch quite early on. On the positive side, there would be no lectures on Laurens van der Post on the honeymoon.
 
Diana would not have liked her husband to be home less than 7 weeks a year, that much is certain. Andrew signed up for that long RN hitch quite early on. On the positive side, there would be no lectures on Laurens van der Post on the honeymoon.

No she wouldn't of, however other than this...they might of actually suited one another better.


LaRae
 
Diana would not have liked her husband to be home less than 7 weeks a year, that much is certain. Andrew signed up for that long RN hitch quite early on. On the positive side, there would be no lectures on Laurens van der Post on the honeymoon.

What's wrong with Laurens van der Post ? :lol:
 
I can't see how. Andrew was a boisterous vulgar overly jolly guy in his youth, and Diana was quiet and essentially shy.. and she and he had as little in comon as she had with Charles. I think she problaby liked him but found him rather crude.. and would have found his bouncy excessive jollity off putting. so with no interests in common, and his being in a profession which meant he was away most of the time, I'm sure he was NOT a royal she would have chosen to marry. she wanted a full time husband, and hoped or believed that Charles being the "top royal" apart from the Q would have more control over how he spent his time..and would be there with her most of it.. I don't think she appreciated how busy he was.

Also, Andy was too young to get married, at the time she was attracting C's notice. I Don't know how friendly she was with Edward, who is about 3 yrs her junior.
 
I can't see how. Andrew was a boisterous vulgar overly jolly guy in his youth, and Diana was quiet and essentially shy.. and she and he had as little in comon as she had with Charles. I think she problaby liked him but found him rather crude.. and would have found his bouncy excessive jollity off putting. so with no interests in common, and his being in a profession which meant he was away most of the time, I'm sure he was NOT a royal she would have chosen to marry. she wanted a full time husband, and hoped or believed that Charles being the "top royal" apart from the Q would have more control over how he spent his time..and would be there with her most of it.. I don't think she appreciated how busy he was.

Also, Andy was too young to get married, at the time she was attracting C's notice. I Don't know how friendly she was with Edward, who is about 3 yrs her junior.


Much has been made about Diana's sense of humor and love of jokes/laughter. She could be rather 'off color' herself as I understand it.

I don't think his rowdy/bounciness would of been off putting to her. His job, yes.


LaRae
 
There are degrees of "vulgarity" and I get the feeling that Andy was rather too much so at times. And given Di's tendency toward depression, I think that Andy bonging around and being jolly, would be irritating.. and he would find her too quiet and sad. He did love Fergie, who was much jollier and bouncier.
 
There are degrees of "vulgarity" and I get the feeling that Andy was rather too much so at times. And given Di's tendency toward depression, I think that Andy bonging around and being jolly, would be irritating.. and he would find her too quiet and sad. He did love Fergie, who was much jollier and bouncier.

Diana supposedly enjoyed the jolly bouncy Fergie so ...and it wasn't like Andrew was that way 24/7, nor Fergie.

I think in a different type of marriage Diana wouldn't of tended toward depression.

As far as vulgarity goes...IME most men can run to the vulgar side of things (and a good number of women) ...Charles has proven he was very capable of it. I'm quite sure most of the men Diana was involved with would of had a streak of it. Plus she had male friends prior to marriage so she was not that sheltered as to how they could behave.


LaRae
 
but the thing being Osipi that the RF are a bit different to most of us. Diana HAD to maintain some kind of relationship, however distant and "not very friendly" with the RF -because of their position and her sons being part of the country's premier family. She had to let her boys spend time with the queen, because they are princes and future king.. even fi she didn't really like the idea.
I think the queen did try to keep up a bit of friendly feeling both for public consumption (Di being so popular with the people) and for the kids sake but Diana was increasingly reluctant, and did not want to do things like spend Xmas with the RF, even if it meant leaving the boys there without her..
I think that while she was friendly with Andy and Ed as a child, there was not much of a bond once she grew up and as charles' wife, she problaby was more "polite friendly " with them.. than really close.

Being with the RF at events such as Trooping the Color and whatnot after the separation and divorce would just be an occasion where Diana followed protocol and acted civilly towards those in attendance. In other words. put on a "game face". There would no semblance of an actual relationship between these people.

I've found myself in situations where both my ex husband and I would be in attendance at the same functions (Kid's wedding etc) and that was the modus operandi then. Hello. How are you. As one would do with any other human being there. No relationship whatsoever between the ex and I. We've moved on.

Sure they had to interact with each other but that doesn't mean they had any kind of a relationship to speak of.
 
There are degrees of "vulgarity" and I get the feeling that Andy was rather too much so at times. And given Di's tendency toward depression, I think that Andy bonging around and being jolly, would be irritating.. and he would find her too quiet and sad. He did love Fergie, who was much jollier and bouncier.

On those recently re-hashed Morton book tapes, Diana spoke of how Koo Stark was such a nice match for Andrew, saying that she was "quiet and utterly devoted" to him, so he would have responded to that aspect of her own character.

Diana and Andrew would have had some very solid things in common as a couple -- friends the same age to start with, no chance of one making the other feel intellectually inferior, they would also probably enjoy the same sort of entertainment -- ie. popular music and television.

Neither were avid horse people or fox hunters as well, a somewhat rare commonality in those circles.
 
Andrew wouldn't have worked out. At the beginning, he would have been gone the majority of the time with the Navy and when he was home, he was rumored to be a couch potato. Then again, Diana would always know where he was eh?

Diana sometimes reminds me of Eliza Doolittle. A woman that totally transformed herself. Maybe what she needed was a Professor Higgins willing to devote all his time and energies to her. I don't think anyone dedicated to the working "Firm" would have suited Diana at all. She was more suited to a home life where the guy did his thing from 9-5 and came home to wife and kiddies.

I think Diana did get on well with the Queen and the other extended members of the family but she never really got close to them. They all just had such busy schedules that "popping in for tea" or going out to lunch wasn't something they ordinarily did. As was pointed out earlier, Wendy Berry the housekeeper states that these occasions did happen but they weren't the norm.
 
I think that's true that she tended to follow her boyfriends' interests to a certain extent. But I think No way Andy. he was loud and vulgar at times and the rest of the time, as you say he just wanted to stay home and watch TV. Diana liked to go out and IMO needed someone cheerful but not "overly jolly" because for a depressive person, too much jollity is as bad as too little. I don't really know wath Andy's interests are, seems to be the Navy, girls and golf. I believe he likes photography.
I think Diana enjoyed more active sports like tennis swimming, gym exercise etc.. and she liked to read though she didn't like Heavy reading.
and while she liked to go dancing and have fun, she was also IMO essentially serious.. she wanted a home life with her kids.. she wanted to do things that helped people, so in some ways she and Charles Did have that good intention in common..
 
Had George VI lived to 100, and was around in the 80s and 90s, I wonder how he would have gotten along with his granddaughter-in-law?
 
That is something no one will ever know. There's a lot of "what ifs" that could figure into that scenario. The logical answer I think would be if George VI lived that long, his daughter Elizabeth would be heir presumptive and most likely Charles would never have married Diana. He wouldn't be under as much pressure to marry and would have found someone else.
 
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