Diana's Legacy: What is left or what will be left?

[Pranter]

Her legacy is her children. Nothing can be greater than that.


LaRae

 

[corazon]

Will it his ex-wife. I mean think about it how many mens talk about their ex-wife? We don't know whether or not Charles has talked to William and Harry talks out Diana. Let remember that there were good times also! It wasn't all a bad marriage. I could see Charles talking with Harry and William about a vacation or or something funny that happened one time at Christmas when they were young or something like that

sorry my friend, I don't see him talking about diana. we knoe the kids talk about diana because they talk about this in public, but really, with a my heart I tell you this, I don't see charles talking about diana.

 

[corazon]

Her legacy is her children. Nothing can be greater than that.


LaRae

of course, we love will and harry for theyself, but I admit, I love them more for be diana's sons

 

[corazon]

I remember the POW saying in his first public speech after Diana's death, and I'm paraphrasing here-" It was a great loss for the boys, and I will always share in that loss."

yes, i remember but he never said ''it was a big lost for us or for me''

 

[corazon]

when william was in the malvinas he and catherine do an act together and I ask in another forum: ''what charles think or feeling seing the diana's ring in catherine's hand'' and a very nice person answer to me one thing that let me thinkg until now, she said ''he don't feel nothing'' and looking at him I have to admit, that person was right.

 

[Princess Pillow]

True, and I don't disagree with you. I just think that, given her accomplishments, and as the mother of a future king, her place in history should be a bit more concrete. Future generations should understand her place in history.

Excuse me Monika, but I really don’t understand all the fuss about remembering Diana by her ex-husband’s family. Personally, I believe the Queen has been very magnanimous to the memory of Diana. However, I expect much more when her son succeeds to the throne, and isn’t that the way it ought to be?

 

[Ish]

This thread has kind of been all over the place lately, so I'm going to try to hit a few of the issues that have been discussed.

Anyone who thinks Diana isn't going to have a place in history has a very narrow view of history. Is she going to be taught in high school history classes? Probably not - not because of anything that she did or didn't do, but because in high school history classes it's not the "smaller" players that get taught, it's the monarchs and the prime ministers (and the people who get their names stuck on important pieces of legislature). Diana wasn't a politician and therefore she's not going to be remembered much or focused on a political history.

That doesn't mean she's going to be forgotten or fade into being just a footnote. No consort of a monarch - or for that matter of a child of a monarch - has been forgotten since William the Conqueror. No mother of a monarch since William II had been forgotten either. Diana's place in history is solid just on the grounds of who she married and who she birthed.

It's also solid on the grounds of what she did. A comment was made earlier that People is not history - but in a way, it is. People do study the history of pop culture and the history of different movements. The history of AIDS and cancer and land mines. Diana's solidified her history in that regards. History and it's studies are so vast and all encompassing that a person whose life has been as well documented as hers - both in terms of primary and secondary sources - is going to be remembered and studied for a good long time.

As for the issue of Camilla's relationship with Diana's children an grandchild(ren)... I can't help but feel that sometimes people are a bit too sensitive when it comes to Camilla and Diana. It's a well known fact that Diana hated Camilla, but it is also a fact (and one that should be well known) that William and Harry have a good relationship with their stepmother - and one that is independent of their relationship and feelings with their mother. The relationship that Camilla has with the Cambridge baby, or any future children, has absolutely nothing to do with Diana. She is not trying to fill the void left by Diana, nor could she if she did. She is merely trying to have a relationship with her stepsons and their families, as is her right to do. Her role in their lives is no different from how it would be if she were any other woman who had married a divorced man with two teenaged sons. To say that Camilla being called Granny or something similar is an attack on Diana's memory is unfair to all parties - it makes Camilla out to be this wicked woman who is determined to eradicate all memory of Diana, and it makes the boys out to be people who would easily forget their mother. Neither of this is true.

Camilla can hold some grandmotherly title (there are many) without stepping on the memory of Diana. It is very typical of children with step grandparents to refer to the step grandparent by a grandparent title - it merely simplifies things. I would expect that this child is going to grow up with one name for the Queen, one for Diana, one for Camilla, and another for Carole, just like it will have one name for Philip, one for Charles, and one for Michael. It doesn't diminish the role that any of them have.

 

[corazon]

excuse me my friend, but in my country, in argetina and averybody know the political troubles argentina' england, in my school a couple yearsago, we have todo a posters with the most significant persons in the 20 century and one person ( not me) out a diana's picture with sandra, the kid of angolavictim of the landmines. and in the movie and tha band go on, in the end with the song ''the lans song'' of elton jonh with the people that die fot VIH and the people to work for the VIH was diana there.

 

[BritishRoyalist]

excuse me my friend, but in my country, in argetina and averybody know the political troubles argentina' england, in my school a couple yearsago, we have todo a posters with the most significant persons in the 20 century and one person ( not me) out a diana's picture with sandra, the kid of angolavictim of the landmines. and in the movie and tha band go on, in the end with the song ''the lans song'' of elton jonh with the people that die fot VIH and the people to work for the VIH was diana there.

I understand that you are from Argentina and all and I am not trying to be rude but I have a hard time reading what you are writing.

 

[Iluvbertie]

sorry my friend, I don't see him talking about diana. we knoe the kids talk about diana because they talk about this in public, but really, with a my heart I tell you this, I don't see charles talking about diana.

We know he has photos of her in CH so why would you think he doesn't talk about his sons' mother to his sons?

I think it is very likely that he does.

 

[Osipi]

sorry my friend, I don't see him talking about diana. we knoe the kids talk about diana because they talk about this in public, but really, with a my heart I tell you this, I don't see charles talking about diana.

That's probably because he has moved on and there is no reason whatsoever to bring up his ex-wife that has been dead for almost 16 years in public. This doesn't mean he doesn't share fond memories with his sons and will do the same with his grandchildren. We have to remember too that although they were divorced, Charles was the one to fly to Paris to escort her body back to the UK and also walked behind her coffin with the boys. The marriage may have ended but I can't believe that there was hatred or animosity between them after the divorce. Some reports have said they were even reaching a comfortable friendship towards the end of Diana's life.

 

[Ish]

I think it would be inappropriate for Charles to talk about Diana in public. It would almost seem as though he's trying to promote himself using her legacy.

Charles clearly mourned her when she died. The fact that her boys are so comfortable talking about her in public makes me feel as though she is someone they can talk to their father about. What Charles does and discusses in private is different from what he does and discusses in public - as it should be.

This child is going to hear about Diana. William and his family will make sure that it knows who Grandma Diana was.

 

[Princess Pillow]

A wonderful and beautiful post Ish, thank you. You certainly summed up many of my feelings about the issues covered in it.



People are not history, true. Whoever said it, although I would ask have you ever read a history by chickens? History is about people, what they do, did, their impact on society, and if any on the future. Diana, Princess of Wales as you said, has left her mark. I’ll go further as surely as any monarch, and she will be remembered. Hopefully, by her sons after their elders and I are long gone! I just don’t get the fuss? Hopefully Monika will be a help to me in this.



Meanwhile lives go on! Or they should anyway. I can’t think of a greater gift for remembering Diana. Than in her constant encouragement of Aides and Landmine victims to get on, keep on living; for those of us without life threatening illness or gross injuries to keep on living our lives for her and to our best ability.





Many thanks again.

 

[COESpiral]

I never knew either of my grandfathers. My maternal grandfather passed away before my parent's marriage. My paternal grandfather died when I was 11 months old. Mom never really talked about her Dad, and even now when she does open up about him I learn something new. But my Dad talked about his Dad all the time. My Grandmother talked about him. So even today I feel like I actually "knew" him even though I never knew him.

Yes, the baby will get to know Grandpa and Grandma Middleton and Grandpa Charles, but I do believe he or she will also come to intimately know Grandma Diana, too. They'll learn about her through stories and pictures and home movies. Just because a person isn't living anymore doesn't mean they're forgotten. Is a person ever really dead if someone is there to remember them?

 

[corazon]

We know he has photos of her in CH so why would you think he doesn't talk about his sons' mother to his sons?

I think it is very likely that he does.

sorry, what is ch? clarence house? I never see photo of diana there

 

[BritishRoyalist]

sorry, what is ch? clarence house? I never see photo of diana there

And you have seen pictures in every single room at Clarence house?

 

[corazon]

I understand that you are from Argentina and all and I am not trying to be rude but I have a hard time reading what you are writing.

yes!!!!!!!! my english is terrible!!! in my college, some year ago a teacher ask to us do a work about the most important people of the century 20. one people of my college do a big paper about diana's work in angola, he used a photo of diana with sandra, the girl victim of the landmines.
anyway, diana yes was a piece important in the college

 

[corazon]

And you have seen pictures in every single room at Clarence house?

of course I not! but in my opinion, and i don't try to ofend anybody, I don't think charles have any pictures of diana in his homes.

 

[Iluvbertie]

You are wrong - there have been many reports of photos of Diana in CH - when he did it up after the death of The Queen Mum and the boys and he went to live there.

Various people who have been through CH have also reported that there are pictures of her there.

 

[Princess Pillow]

I understand you are from Argentina and all and I am not trying to be rude but I have a hard reading what yo are writing.

I understood Corazon pretty well, as she was sharing a school project in her native Argentina. Then I understand Pidgin really well. In fact, BritishRoyalist if I don’t get my pillows just right; sleep tight or any number of such excuses. I’ll write in my native language of choice, Pidgin. Thanks to my dad’s career US military service.



Historically, Pidgin is a non-written language only thanks to the Internet it is today becoming a written language and the fastest. Likewise, it was once only a working language in a multi-language area now it is becoming the language of choice of non-native speakers. Like its spoken origin, its written form has no rules either, and I hope it never does, really!



The easiest way I find to tell people how to read it is just sit back and take it slowly. If you can't really get a word or clause just skip it. Let the sentence help you understand what is being said, and don't hesitate to ask the author, if there is a real problem understanding.



While I am pretty good at understanding written Pidgin sometimes I have to ask myself... I have never had a fellow Pidgin speaker refuse to make themselves clear when I have asked. I do know some just really bad native English authors get upset, but a true Pidgin writer knows they aren't using English as a graduate or native speaker and welcomes questions, it is how we learn.


I don’t feel you were very rude BritishRoyalist, it was honest You have a nice evening

 

[Princess Pillow]

excuse me my friend, but in my country, in argetina and averybody know the political troubles argentina' england, in my school a couple yearsago, we have todo a posters with the most significant persons in the 20 century and one person ( not me) out a diana's picture with sandra, the kid of angolavictim of the landmines. and in the movie and tha band go on, in the end with the song ''the lans song'' of elton jonh with the people that die fot VIH and the people to work for the VIH was diana there.

To cool Corazon! Sounds like a moving tribute to the Princess. Nor am I surprised to find that she has her fans in your home country. Despite the problems between the two states. Thanks for sharing

 

[corazon]

To cool Corazon! Sounds like a moving tribute to the Princess. Nor am I surprised to find that she has her fans in your home country. Despite the problems between the two states. Thanks for sharing

you are very welcome! diana had a lot of fans here!!!! really a lot! in province of chubut, she visited in 1995 a house of tea, and here have a little museum about here, with photos and the memorablia she used! is so so so loverly!
the politic problem argentina-england really don't matter about diana, when she die all the tv shows send cameras to london, and we had a condolence book in the british embassy. she is very loved here, she had a very close frien argentino, robert devorick, he wan in the wedding of william.
the only two people that when they come here don't were very welcome were andrew and charles. sarah, duchess of york love a lot this country for her mother.

You are wrong - there have been many reports of photos of Diana in CH - when he did it up after the death of The Queen Mum and the boys and he went to live there.
Various people who have been through CH have also reported that there are pictures of her there.

I respect your opinion, but for me, for charles diana never exist. I don't said he have to talk of her in public, of course not. but he never do or said about her, he don't was to the diana concert in wembley neight

 

[Iluvbertie]

Of course Diana existed for him - his two sons are also hers.

He doesn't have to go to a concert to remember her. That was the sort of thing that was put on the satisfy the 'fans' who needed to have their demands mollified rather than for any real reason to remember her by those who actually knew her - her family.

To them she was a real person - not some picture in a magazine - a person with feelings and character and that was a very real part of Charles' life.

I feel sorry for people like you because you haven't been able to do what Diana herself was able to do - accept that the marriage was over and that she was 50% responsbible for its breakdown (her words by the way - she took half the blame for the marriage breakdown - leaving 50% and only 50% of the blame to Charles). Sadly many of Diana's fans haven't accepted that fact and so remain in a bitter sad place regarding Charles and his relationship with Diana - he even sent her flowers in the last month of her life - one of her last comments to a friend was 'guess what I just got - flowers from my ex' (might have been a card) but that is hardly what a person does if they wish to forget about someone who was a part of their life for some time and is the mother of his children.

For Charles to try to forget Diana means he also can't have any relationship with his own sons.

 

[Dman]

I think we have to remember Charles lost his ex-wife and the mother of his two sons. Despite their past problems, Charles & Diana had lots of love between them and that was pretty evident when they decided to bring William & Harry into the world.

During the last year of her life, friends has mentioned that Charles & Diana had started to become friends and they had two young children to look after. Charles actually used to pop in at Kensington Palace and visit Diana. The bitterness and upset had started to melt and Charles even invited Diana to accompany him on a farewell tour on the Royal Yacht Britannia before it was decommissioned. Of course it never got a chance to happen because of her unexpected passing.

Charles wore his wedding band Diana gave him for many years and up until he became engaged to Camilla. He has moved on with Camilla but I think we just have to remember Charles also lost Diana and I don't think he will ever forget her. I'm sure she was on his mind when William got engaged to Catherine, gave her what once was Diana's engagement ring and on the wedding day. I just try my best to consider his feelings about things.

Diana's memory will most likely never die out totally.

 

[BritishRoyalist]

I read somewhere that Charles and Diana were even planning to go on a Vacation (as friends) with William and Harry after she got back from Paris. Diana said herself that they made better friends then spouses. In the last months of her life they were starting to make amends. I think Diana would be happy for Charles and herself would want everyone to move in and accept Camilla.

 

[blauerengel]

... Some reports have said they were even reaching a comfortable friendship towards the end of Diana's life.

I do not have any source to back up my belief, it is only my female intuiton-but I believe that while C&D did not work out as a couple (for many reasons that have been sufficiently discussed), they did have some common interests and also had admiration for each other.
Prince Charles has done charity from a very early age on & founded the Prince´s Trust who mainly aims to help at-risk children in UK but also has many other important causes like organic farming or saving the rain forest etc.
Both Diana and Charles were very involved and cared a lot for their sons and also their charities were close to their heart. They both worked hard and try to raise both awareness but also raise money for good causes- they are both highly succesful fundraisers and also create a lot of good press for the charity causes they support and believe in.
This is why I also share your opinion, Osipi,that they had a friendly, if not good,relationship after they got divorced. Unfortunately they never got the chance to deepen this relationship or talk about it in public.
IMO this is a private matter- how and what Charles feels for Diana or for Camilla should not be made public, we are free to speculate, but I understand and also think it is a good thing to keep such things in the family

 

[Osipi]

I am going to go OT for just a minute here.

I really have to admire our members here that post and participate on TRF in full steam even though English is not their native language and are perhaps not top notch at doing it at a college level. It shows guts, determination and a willingness to try and express thoughts in a language that is not their most comfortable one. I know I would be totally lost trying to participate in any forum in any other language than English. Corazon, be proud of your posts and keep on sharing!

Back to Diana and history. I do think that as time passes and history classes are taught, what will be noted will be most likely dates. Birth, marriage, children and death. I've not seen a history book in over 40 years but I would imagine that nowhere in them is mentioned Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis other than the base facts about her although she was a big icon of the 20th century much as Diana was in the 80s and 90s. There will be a lot of information and books about Diana in the library and online information sites though and if a spark of interest happens to catch fire, it will be available. Much like to me that Richard III was a blip in English history until his bones were found and I was interested enough to pursue more information about him.

For all we know, 5000 years from now someone may be digging in Nashville, Tennessee and discover that at one time there was a King that lived there and his name was Elvis.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

First, I agree with you about the people who take the time to post in English even if it is their second language. It's always interesting to read another perspective.

I also agree with your point about Diana's place in history. One of my kids was born after Diana died, but she knows more about Diana than about either Jack or Jacqueline Kennedy.

President Kennedy's assassination in 1963 plunged the U.S. and the rest of the world into mourning much the way Diana's sudden death did in 1997. The reaction was slightly different and more prolonged after Diana's death, but I think that was because Kennedy was buried within 3 days and Diana's funeral occurred about a week after her death. Funerals have an aura of finality and help people move on.

Regardless, in the 15 to 20 years after the Kennedy assassination in 1963, it was fairly common to ask people where they were when they heard President Kennedy had been shot. There were still many books, newspaper articles, and television shows dedicated to the Kennedy family, especially Jackie. Candidates were still arguing about whether they could be compared to Jack Kennedy as late as 1988.

But now, 50 years after the assassination, things have changed. The Kennedys are rarely mentioned in pop culture anymore. My son's history book includes a section on the 60's, but most of it centers on the civil rights movement and the Vietnam War. Certainly, President Kennedy is a major figure during that time period, but the perception of his place in history is very different than it was 20 years ago.

I think that will be the way it will be with Diana. To answer Ish's excellent post (#907, this forum), anyone who wants to study pop culture in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's will study Diana. And, of course, anyone who studies the royal family between 1980 and through William's reign, will also know about Diana. But in 2050 will most teenagers know who she is? I just don't think so. And that will be a healthy thing.

Of course, if the monarchy doesn't survive or drastically changes during the reign of either Charles or William, her place in history will be far more prominent, although I am not sure it will be remembered in a positive way.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

...(her words by the way - she took half the blame for the marriage breakdown - leaving 50% and only 50% of the blame to Charles).

I hadn't heard that Diana accepted any responsibility for the breakdown of the marriage, when was this?

For the record, I agree with you. Charles and Diana were married and had children. He cared for her and mourned her death. He's also a good father. Of course, he thinks about and talks about Diana in private.

 

[BritishRoyalist]

...But in 2050 will most teenagers know who she is? I just don't think so. And that will be a healthy thing.

I agree. In the End History will Judge for it self! It only been 16 Years since Diana died and anyone over 23 know who she is weather they like her not. And some may have never heard of her either. if you go ask someone who is 15 or 16 or even 17 about Princess Diana I wonder how many of them would know who you are talking about? a lot of them probably wouldn't even care who she is. She was a person who was there at that time at the right moment and was popular for that generation and then she died. I have to disagree about Jackie Kennedy. But that is a different discussion of it own.