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  #2261  
Old 12-12-2020, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
We can agree that, by 1997, the work was still in progress, and progresses were indeed made. Some projects were allegedly made about a get together trip onboard "Britannia" for the Hong-Kong handover.
I don't know if they were friends, but at least they had their parents' role at heart and could have a civilized meeting/ chit chat. God knows it was not the case some years prior.
I don't know if the queen was likely to let them go on any kind of "double mission"....I think at best, they could have come over the years to a friendly if distant relationship.. but I honestly do wonder if Diana would have coped well with the way that Camilla was moving into Charles' life more and more....
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  #2262  
Old 12-12-2020, 02:56 PM
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One area that kept Diana and Charles in contact with each other after the divorce was that they were *both* parenting their sons. It's an area where they pretty much agreed on things. i can imagine that by that time, they were at least able to be civil to each other for the sake of the boys.
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  #2263  
Old 12-12-2020, 03:54 PM
Nobility
 
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
dont know if they met regularly.. I think he called in once or twice.. but the point was that Diana was still embroiled with him.. She half longed for him to come back.. but would she have really wanted him popping in and then going home to Camilla? What would have happened if he'd wanted to remarry? Diana hadn't reached a stage where she could put the marriage in the past and have a civilised friendship....She dated other men, yet I think if Charles had asked her, she would have gone back.. but he was never going to ask her..
what about the inevitable moment when he siad that he wanted the boys to meet Camilla?
Diana was a realist. I doubt she yearned to go back to Charles after a certain point. Enough was enough. I think she gave up on him ca. 1989-90. She fell in love with Khan and Khan in various interviews said he was in love with her. I think it would have taken a bit more time for Charles to remarry if Diana had lived. It did take time because of the QUeen Mother's wishes not to see a C and C wedding in her lifetime. and the revelations in the BUrrell trial did not help matters any.

CHarles and Diana would be in contact always because of their sons, no matter what.

Diana had said her life was torture in the marriage, I doubt she yearned for Charles. She was Serious about Khan not hung up on Charles. I think there were many unresolved issues with Khan so it may or may not have worked out. She was only divorced for a year and I doubt in any hurry to remarry.
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  #2264  
Old 12-13-2020, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
One area that kept Diana and Charles in contact with each other after the divorce was that they were *both* parenting their sons. It's an area where they pretty much agreed on things. i can imagine that by that time, they were at least able to be civil to each other for the sake of the boys.
I think that they tried. However during the last years of the marriage there were arguments about the boys, and its said that it was one of these arguments that precipitated the separation. After the separation there would have been an agreement in place for how often each saw the children so they had less to argue about.
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  #2265  
Old 12-13-2020, 08:36 AM
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I think itís interesting how so many just donít want to believe that Charles and Diana were actually good friends by the time she died. I knew about this in general a long time ago, but lately more details have been revealed.

Victoria Arbiter was a real insider...she should know. Here are a few from a series of tweets responding to nasty replies she received to her article.

Quote:
That's actually not accurate as I explained in the piece. By the time she died she and Charles were on very good terms and they had found a way to move forwards in an amicable way.
Quote:
Diana didn't leave. After their divorce she maintained her home at Kensington Palace and she continued with a number of her charities. She and Charles also made their peace and were friends before she died.
Quote:
By 1997 Charles & Diana had moved on & were enjoying a mutually respectful friendship. They were grown-ups, but that doesn't suit your narrative. She would be equally appalled by your comments about her son. We'll leave it there you're clearly not interested in the truth.

This is from her article.... and I certainly donít believe either of these ladies are lying, confused, etc..

Quote:
Contrary to popular opinion, Diana didn't hate the royal family and by 1997 her anger towards Charles had passed. The month before she died, she had lunch with royal biographer Tina Brown at the Four Seasons Restaurant in New York

Recalling their final conversation in a recent interview for The Telegraph, Brown said, "At the end of Diana's life, she and Charles were on the best terms they'd been for a very long time. Charles got into the habit of dropping in on her at Kensington Palace and they would have tea and a sort of rueful exchange. They even had some laughs together."
https://honey.nine.com.au/royals/pri...e-77320c5b5591
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  #2266  
Old 12-13-2020, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I think it’s interesting how so many just don’t want to believe that Charles and Diana were actually good friends by the time she died. I knew about this in general a long time ago, but lately more details have been revealed.

V



https://honey.nine.com.au/royals/pri...e-77320c5b5591
Brown also has a story in her biog of Diana that Charles said to a guest at Highgrove that he got his news from the radio rather than reading the papers, because if he opened a paper there would be a story about "what my crazy wife's been doing". That was during their separated years but it was by royal standards very angry stuff and showed Charles in a pretty negative frame of mind about Diana.
I think that over time, things improved between them.. but I think that Diana was very volatile.. never of the same mind 2 minutes running and that while she might have seen Charles occasionally and talked pleasantly with him, it wasn't a calm friendly "lets be friends and remember the good times" and being nice for the sake of the kids..
She was up and down according to her own moods and she would probably have been unhappy and angry as his relationship with Camilla progressed and became more public and accepted. As Sarah Bradford said "she pretended that she didn't mind his being with Camilla but she did mind it really".
Brown also said in her bio of Diana that in the last years of the marriage Di was "oddly delusional" about the state of her marriage.. that in spite of their rows and Charles being with Camilla and so on, Diana still seemed to be surprised that Charles had moved on - that he'd given Camilla a necklace for a present and only gave her a cheap present. I think that she did cling to half hopes that the marriage might somehow be saved or revived and didn't seem to understand that Charles was just as fed up with her and the wreck of their marriage as she was, and that he really wanted out of it...
So I think she was quite capable of seeing other men and yet half beleiving that she might reconcile with Charles.. and I suspect that she'd have been upset and angry when confronted with the fact that he was now firmly fixed in a relationship with Camilla....
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  #2267  
Old 12-13-2020, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I think itís interesting how so many just donít want to believe that Charles and Diana were actually good friends by the time she died. I knew about this in general a long time ago, but lately more details have been revealed.

Victoria Arbiter was a real insider...she should know. Here are a few from a series of tweets responding to nasty replies she received to her article.








This is from her article.... and I certainly donít believe either of these ladies are lying, confused, etc..



https://honey.nine.com.au/royals/pri...e-77320c5b5591
Thank you for sharing this information. Good to read that the parents were on better terms with each other.
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  #2268  
Old 12-13-2020, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
Thank you for sharing this information. Good to read that the parents were on better terms with each other.
Your welcome ! I think the better terms/friendship was wonderful for them, but best of all for William and Harry. Now that I think about it, their parentsí rehabilitation of their relationship is a perfect example to them that time can heal many wounds, and that just because youíre angry now, doesnít mean youíll be angry forever.
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  #2269  
Old 12-14-2020, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Brown also has a story in her biog of Diana that Charles said to a guest at Highgrove that he got his news from the radio rather than reading the papers, because if he opened a paper there would be a story about "what my crazy wife's been doing". That was during their separated years but it was by royal standards very angry stuff and showed Charles in a pretty negative frame of mind about Diana.
I think that over time, things improved between them.. but I think that Diana was very volatile.. never of the same mind 2 minutes running and that while she might have seen Charles occasionally and talked pleasantly with him, it wasn't a calm friendly "lets be friends and remember the good times" and being nice for the sake of the kids..
She was up and down according to her own moods and she would probably have been unhappy and angry as his relationship with Camilla progressed and became more public and accepted. As Sarah Bradford said "she pretended that she didn't mind his being with Camilla but she did mind it really".
Brown also said in her bio of Diana that in the last years of the marriage Di was "oddly delusional" about the state of her marriage.. that in spite of their rows and Charles being with Camilla and so on, Diana still seemed to be surprised that Charles had moved on - that he'd given Camilla a necklace for a present and only gave her a cheap present. I think that she did cling to half hopes that the marriage might somehow be saved or revived and didn't seem to understand that Charles was just as fed up with her and the wreck of their marriage as she was, and that he really wanted out of it...
So I think she was quite capable of seeing other men and yet half beleiving that she might reconcile with Charles.. and I suspect that she'd have been upset and angry when confronted with the fact that he was now firmly fixed in a relationship with Camilla....
I think Charles was and is more volatile. And I think she had given up on Charles earlier on and was not yearning for him. She did not sit home and pine over him. I doubt Diana was a modern Day Miss Havisham sitting home and not moving-- she did move on. I doubt also she'd have rushed into a second marriage or even thought about it only a year after the divorce from Charles.

I think after all those years, nothing surprised Diana anymore about Charles.

I don't think Tina Brown was all that close to Diana (they only had one lunch together) so I don't think she really"knew" how close she and Charles were were. Diana did tell her children that although she and papa (Charles) loved each other they could not live together anymore. It was no Parent Trap scenario.
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  #2270  
Old 12-14-2020, 09:23 PM
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Diana died on the last day of August 1997, so she was alive a full eight months of that year. I can totally believe that there were weeks and months of that year that she and Charles were on good terms but I am not going to conclude that Diana and Charles were friends / on good terms on a sustained basis.

First of all, it was Diana's MO to be on good terms with someone until she wasn't - that was chronicled not only with Charles but also her parents, siblings, employees and close friends.

Secondly, Diana started the year organizing and then filming an interview where among other things she makes it clear that she does not want Charles to become King. The process started in January but she actually did the interview in March, so it was not like this was a rash act. Note this is a different set of tapes than the Settelen or Morton tapes and the tapes have been reported on but have yet to air.

Thirdly, and this is conjecture on my part, but I think that when Diana was photographed with Dodi clearly showing that they were in a romantic relationship, she knew she was being photographed and wanted to be photographed with two motives, one being that to get Hasnat Khan's attention and the second was to compete with the media coverage of Charles throwing Camilla a 50th birthday party at Highgrove.

I think that Diana was OK with Charles himself and the Charles and Camilla coupling as long as she herself was happy in her own romantic relationship, her image in the media was positive and there was not even the slightest whiff that Charles would be able to ascend the throne with Camilla being a fixture in her life. In fact, as I mentioned above, in the tapes that she made earlier in the year she allegedly made it clear that she did not want Charles to become King. She expressed similar sentiments in either the Settelen or Morton tapes.

Yeah I can believe that she and Charles had positive interactions in 1997 but again I would not conclude that Charles and Diana were friends / in a good place on a sustained basis. Whatever amiability they had with one another was ephemeral and was always going to be that way as long as Camilla was part of Charles' life and Charles did not have to "abdicate" for the woman he loved IMHO.
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  #2271  
Old 12-14-2020, 10:14 PM
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Reading through all of this and seeing a debate about if Diana and Charles were amicable towards each other at the time of her untimely death makes me realize something. Perhaps part of Diana's legacy that will not be forgotten for years to come is the value of the relationship within a marriage.

Obviously, Diana and Charles went into the marriage without a sense of real intimacy towards one another. The "best friend and companion" aspect just wasn't there from the beginning. Perhaps they hoped it would develop over time as they certainly were attracted enough to each other that the physical parts of a marriage wasn't a problem and actually provided a few anecdotes that were amusing to say the least. They had two sons together that they both adored. Their differences ended up outweighing whatever they did together.

The lesson of Diana's marriage to Charles is one i learned the hard way myself. I rarely think back to my first marriage and take it apart and find fault or who is to blame at all these days. I was married for 20 years to a man that was not my best friend at all and we married because that was "expected" and we had the house, the children and the dogs and cats and rabbits and a "settled" life in a good neighborhood. But.. we didn't grow together and we grew apart and the problems that Charles and Diana experienced, I can identify with and to this day, I cannot take sides. My separation/divorce happened around the same time as Charles and Diana's "wars" were happening and, in a way, I found comfort that another couple was going through what I was at the time.

I just really wish that Diana had lived and had found the love and intimate "best friend" relationship that really makes a marriage works. It's what Charles and Camilla have now and it shows. I've been married to my best friend now for 23 years and know the peace and serenity that brings. I am thankful though too for my first marriage as it gave my my children and taught me to seek what it is I really needed.

Believe it or not.. this quote is meaningful to a good relationship. No matter what kind it is.

"ďIt is one of the blessings of old friends that you can afford to be stupid with them.Ē ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Perhaps Diana's legacy is to all of us to seek within and find what it is in life that we really need.
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  #2272  
Old 12-15-2020, 12:33 AM
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One more point I'd like to add here. After my own experiences and the years that followed afterwards, my ex husband still holds a lot of animosity towards me because I was the one that divorced him (it cost him money). I hold no animosity towards him at all. At the most, we are civil to each other when the need arises. I actually like his second wife.

How a person feels upon a divorce is unique to how they perceive it to be.
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  #2273  
Old 12-15-2020, 01:51 AM
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I really donít understand the refusal to believe that Charles and Diana were friends - itís almost as if you donít want it to be so. It reminds me of the Diana stans who insist that she was a saint and Charles a sinner, that she was pure and he a villain, despite all the facts to the contrary.
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  #2274  
Old 12-15-2020, 01:58 AM
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The installation of the statue of Diana in the Sunken Garden will, I imagine, be limited based on where the UK/world is at with the Covid-19 pandemic.

I do wonder if Fergie would make the cut? She is one of those people often fondly associated with Diana.
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  #2275  
Old 12-15-2020, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I really donít understand the refusal to believe that Charles and Diana were friends - itís almost as if you donít want it to be so. It reminds me of the Diana stans who insist that she was a saint and Charles a sinner, that she was pure and he a villain, despite all the facts to the contrary.
The refusal lies in the being an outsider to the relationship. It was and still is a personal relationship between two people that we'll never know the full extent of.
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  #2276  
Old 12-15-2020, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord_Royal View Post
The installation of the statue of Diana in the Sunken Garden will, I imagine, be limited based on where the UK/world is at with the Covid-19 pandemic.

I do wonder if Fergie would make the cut? She is one of those people often fondly associated with Diana.
Its Off topic but at the time of Di's death, she and Fergie werne't speaking and Diana had been very firmly insisting that Fergie was no longer on her list of freinds...
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  #2277  
Old 12-15-2020, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I really donít understand the refusal to believe that Charles and Diana were friends - itís almost as if you donít want it to be so. It reminds me of the Diana stans who insist that she was a saint and Charles a sinner, that she was pure and he a villain, despite all the facts to the contrary.
No, its based on the fact that not all that much time had elapsed between their very bitter divorce and her death. And on the fact that Diana was a very volatile person particularly in those last few years. She was struggling to find a new life, and not always doing very well at it... Some people believed that she'd have taken Charles back in a heartbeat.. but he would not have wanted her back because he was happy with Camilla. So even if they were beginning to get over their estrangement, it was a long way from Dian's putting the marriage behind her and moving on to a friendly relationship with Charles - because her emotions were still running high. She was dating other men but her affairs weren't working out, her sons were growing up and she was lonely because they were beginning to lead their own lives and also were bound to spend time with their father and the RF learning their royal role....
And Diana was IMO still jealous and emotional about Camilla though she tried to give the impression that she didn't care any more...
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  #2278  
Old 12-15-2020, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
Diana died on the last day of August 1997, so she was alive a full eight months of that year. I can totally believe that there were weeks and months of that year that she and Charles were on good terms but I am not going to conclude that Diana and Charles were friends / on good terms on a sustained basis.

First of all, it was Diana's MO to be on good terms with someone until she wasn't - that was chronicled not only with Charles but also her parents, siblings, employees and close friends.

Secondly, Diana started the year organizing and then filming an interview where among other things she makes it clear that she does not want Charles to become King. The process started in January but she actually did the interview in March, so it was not like this was a rash act. Note this is a different set of tapes than the Settelen or Morton tapes and the tapes have been reported on but have yet to air.

Thirdly, and this is conjecture on my part, but I think that when Diana was photographed with Dodi clearly showing that they were in a romantic relationship, she knew she was being photographed and wanted to be photographed with two motives, one being that to get Hasnat Khan's attention and the second was to compete with the media coverage of Charles throwing Camilla a 50th birthday party at Highgrove.

I think that Diana was OK with Charles himself and the Charles and Camilla coupling as long as she herself was happy in her own romantic relationship, her image in the media was positive and there was not even the slightest whiff that Charles would be able to ascend the throne with Camilla being a fixture in her life. In fact, as I mentioned above, in the tapes that she made earlier in the year she allegedly made it clear that she did not want Charles to become King. She expressed similar sentiments in either the Settelen or Morton tapes.

Yeah I can believe that she and Charles had positive interactions in 1997 but again I would not conclude that Charles and Diana were friends / in a good place on a sustained basis. Whatever amiability they had with one another was ephemeral and was always going to be that way as long as Camilla was part of Charles' life and Charles did not have to "abdicate" for the woman he loved IMHO.
very good post....
I think that yes at times if Di's own romantic life was going well, she was AT TIMES able to cope with the fact that Charles was now openly living with another woman and was clearly committed to her.. But her moods varied and when she was unhappy with her own romances herself, she was less likely to be tolerant. And at times yes she might meet with Charles and chat with him pleasantly but that mood might not last for very long. How would she have coped if things changed ot the point where Charles could marry Camilla.. (ie Q Mother passed away, the queen was willing to consent etc) and Charles said he was going to get engaged to Cam? Would Diana have been calm with that, if she'd been on her own? Even if she hadn't I think she would have found it hard to see Camilla getting officially engaged and married and taking HER place in teh RF...
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  #2279  
Old 12-15-2020, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The refusal lies in the being an outsider to the relationship. It was and still is a personal relationship between two people that we'll never know the full extent of.
Iím sorry, I donít buy this argument at all. I already quoted Victoria Arbiter, who would know, and I know her father has spoken about Diana and Charlesí later relationship at length. We have Tina Brownís quotes, and frankly, even weíll before I joined this forum (years before), Iíd read about their friendship. Also, even if I did agree with your statement, it wouldnít explain why people are so adamant that C and D werenít friends.
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  #2280  
Old 12-15-2020, 08:25 AM
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No, its based on the fact that not all that much time had elapsed between their very bitter divorce and her death. And on the fact that Diana was a very volatile person particularly in those last few years. She was struggling to find a new life, and not always doing very well at it... Some people believed that she'd have taken Charles back in a heartbeat.. but he would not have wanted her back because he was happy with Camilla. So even if they were beginning to get over their estrangement, it was a long way from Dian's putting the marriage behind her and moving on to a friendly relationship with Charles - because her emotions were still running high. She was dating other men but her affairs weren't working out, her sons were growing up and she was lonely because they were beginning to lead their own lives and also were bound to spend time with their father and the RF learning their royal role....
And Diana was IMO still jealous and emotional about Camilla though she tried to give the impression that she didn't care any more...
Youíre offering up your opinion on their relationship based on your own evaluations, choosing to ignore reports/quotes from good sources that speak to the opposite.
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