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  #2081  
Old 03-19-2018, 07:52 PM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
That is Diana's 'lasting legacy': the utter contempt shown towards Charles. It's toxic. It needs to stop, and her sons could stop it in it's tracks. That's a fact. Without 'taking sides' they could put an end to it all in one fell swoop. I await that day, if ever it comes.
I don't see how William and Harry could "stop it in its tracks." They can't sue, so what can they do?
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  #2082  
Old 03-19-2018, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Some of Diana's legacy is that there are many people who still take her spin on their marriage troubles as the only truth. They are blind to her affairs and solely blame Charles for the marriage ending. They attribute any of the negatives about Diana to be either Charles's fault because he wasn't a good husband or false stories put out by Charles's friends.

I know these people exist because one of them is my mother, no matter what information I try to provide. She made up her mind 25 years ago and nothing is going to change it.
Some people even blame Charles for Diana's death. "If he'd been a good husband she wouldn't have been in Paris with Dodi." Good grief! Forget about the fact that she chose to give up her royal security officer & associate with the dodgy Fayeds.
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  #2083  
Old 03-19-2018, 08:10 PM
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Someone like that (Charles's fault she died) is not reasonable in their thinking. No point in even discussing things with them.


LaRae
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  #2084  
Old 03-19-2018, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
Mmm. Perhaps if we remove the names Charles and Diana we might be able to see the situation rather less passionately. Let's just say that male falls helplessly in love with a female who suits him in every way but for various reasons doesn't make the ultimate commitment to her. He is, however, rather put out when she marries elsewhere and carries memories of what they had once had. He eventually gets together with another female, deemed by others to be much more suitable. As he feels, by now, it's necessary for him to marry, ie, it's his duty, he marries her. His duty is DONE, not necessarily FELT. The fact that his bride isn't as perfect a match -for him- as was his past love, makes commitment to the marriage more difficult. When his past, and real love, once again crosses his path and all his old feelings for her resurface, there surely must have been turmoil for him, especially as his wife was the mother of his children and loved by all.

I don't doubt that the man DID what he could, as far as was possible for him, to make his marriage work, but if his heart was elsewhere -and I don't believe he'd ever fallen out of love with his first love and then fallen IN love again- there could not have been the depth of feeling there, especially so if he'd started to see the possibility of a permanent future with his first love. It matters, not a jot, what are the names of those enmeshed in the sad triangle. The dilemma would be the same whoever they were.
Excellent overview and without enmity.

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  #2085  
Old 03-20-2018, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
Mmm. Perhaps if we remove the names Charles and Diana we might be able to see the situation rather less passionately. Let's just say that male falls helplessly in love with a female who suits him in every way but for various reasons doesn't make the ultimate commitment to her. He is, however, rather put out when she marries elsewhere and carries memories of what they had once had. He eventually gets together with another female, deemed by others to be much more suitable. As he feels, by now, it's necessary for him to marry, ie, it's his duty, he marries her. His duty is DONE, not necessarily FELT. The fact that his bride isn't as perfect a match -for him- as was his past love, makes commitment to the marriage more difficult. When his past, and real love, once again crosses his path and all his old feelings for her resurface, there surely must have been turmoil for him, especially as his wife was the mother of his children and loved by all.
I don't doubt that the man DID what he could, as far as was possible for him, to make his marriage work, but if his heart was elsewhere -and I don't believe he'd ever fallen out of love with his first love and then fallen IN love again- there could not have been the depth of feeling there, especially so if he'd started to see the possibility of a permanent future with his first love. It matters, not a jot, what are the names of those enmeshed in the sad triangle. The dilemma would be the same whoever they were.
Good summary, but I would add a few more factors - the fact that the two really didn't know each other before the marriage and were an incompatible mismatch with little if no common interests on which to build a relationship, on top of that the bride had to adjust to a much more public & rigid lifestyle than she was used to and resented her husband's commitment to his duties, and both had emotional needs the other couldn't satisfy.

In my opinion the marriage didn't fail simply because Charles had a prior love. I suspect he went into the marriage fully intending to commit to Diana but there wan't anything either of them could stand on while they built & cemented a relationship.
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  #2086  
Old 03-21-2018, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
In my opinion the marriage didn't fail simply because Charles had a prior love. I suspect he went into the marriage fully intending to commit to Diana but there wan't anything either of them could stand on while they built & cemented a relationship.
This is basically what happened in a nutshell. If the marriage had been a stable, loving one where two people meshed together physically, mentally and spiritually, nothing could have broken it. They were just two different people unable to form this kind of a bond. Just like oil and vinegar will never mix.

Part of Diana's legacy is a reform of the old ways of thinking of "checking off the proper boxes" when it comes to a marriage. The old standards were proven to be actually detrimental to a dynastic type marriage and the lessons were learned. When William married, the boxes to be checked off were thrown out the window and will never return again.
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  #2087  
Old 03-21-2018, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post

Part of Diana's legacy is a reform of the old ways of thinking of "checking off the proper boxes" when it comes to a marriage. The old standards were proven to be actually detrimental to a dynastic type marriage and the lessons were learned. When William married, the boxes to be checked off were thrown out the window and will never return again.
At least I think we may be assured that the days are thankfully long past when a willing virgin will be coerced, by an ambitious Mama, to walk down the aisle -like "a lamb to slaughter"- to the fate worse than death awaiting her.................the first hurdle necessary to overcome MAY be that of finding a virgin who is willing, OR finding a virgin?
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  #2088  
Old 03-21-2018, 03:58 AM
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I think the last Virgin bride was lost to the world when Holly Branson married.

The only place where its applicable to shop for anything "virgin" is in the supermarket in the olive oil department.
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  #2089  
Old 03-21-2018, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
This is basically what happened in a nutshell. If the marriage had been a stable, loving one where two people meshed together physically, mentally and spiritually, nothing could have broken it. They were just two different people unable to form this kind of a bond. Just like oil and vinegar will never mix.

Part of Diana's legacy is a reform of the old ways of thinking of "checking off the proper boxes" when it comes to a marriage. The old standards were proven to be actually detrimental to a dynastic type marriage and the lessons were learned. When William married, the boxes to be checked off were thrown out the window and will never return again.
Spot on! I was a teenager when Charles and Diana married & knew nothing of Camilla but even then the whole situation seemed very strange to me. A 32 year old man involved with a sheltered 19 year old. And then that creepy announcement from her uncle, assuring the world she was a virgin. BLECH! and OMG! Just too medieval.
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  #2090  
Old 03-31-2018, 04:53 PM
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I was 19 when they married; and, to me, she seemed more than just one year older than I. At the time, nothing seemed more romantic to me than this young woman marrying this older, royal man. It's only in hindsight that it seems rather unusual.
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  #2091  
Old 03-31-2018, 06:35 PM
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Diana was a beautiful bride and she and the Emmanuel's managed to create the perfect fairytale wedding gown and the BRF finished the look with the perfect fairytale Glass Carriage!

When Diana exited the Carriage she looked her age as she, the bridesmaids and the Emmanuel's wrestled that gown into shape, one thing she didn't look was sad, scared, unhappy, coerced, etc. and, when she and Charles exited the Cathedral, they looked like any other blissfully just-married bride and groom.

We are all the sum total of our life experience and since there were 14 years between my mother and father, I didn't give the marriage of Charles and Diana a second thought, not then and not now.

So what legacy did she leave . . . two beautiful well loved sons. Golden heirs to remind us all of her. Unfortunately, it was a double-edged sword which meant their every move was followed intrusively. It's a miracle they both didn't take to drink and licentiousness as a career as they were damned for every real and created faux pas.
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  #2092  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:50 PM
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How great was Diana diplomatically?

I have read time and time again how when Diana went on royal tours outside the UK, she was great with soft diplomacy, she won people over, she had charm as well. In a sense she was a secret weapon to the monarchy and parliament. Every heads of states, foreign leaders, other royal members, US Presidents, politicians all wanted to meet her. She was in demand. She actually made it seem that UK was bigger than it actually was. She was an economic force boosting tourism in the countries she would visit. Does any of you guys have other examples of Diana and diplomacy?
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  #2093  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:21 PM
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Can you quote some sources because I have never read this anywhere.
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  #2094  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
She actually made it seem that UK was bigger than it actually was. She was an economic force boosting tourism in the countries she would visit.
Now that's new ...
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  #2095  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Now that's new ...
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...omy-2017-08-30

https://annenberg.usc.edu/news/event...er-chief-staff

https://books.google.com/books?id=FF...france&f=false
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  #2096  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:58 PM
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Well sourced, and well done!
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  #2097  
Old 04-30-2018, 09:08 PM
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I am not criticising Diana but that was about her death and not about your original question regarding her impact diplomatically.

I don't think anything she did changed diplomatic relations between UK and other countries.

She was liked but that doesn't change diplomatic relations.
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  #2098  
Old 04-30-2018, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I am not criticising Diana but that was about her death and not about your original question regarding her impact diplomatically.

I don't think anything she did changed diplomatic relations between UK and other countries.

She was liked but that doesn't change diplomatic relations.
But she did. I've read so many articles and books people have written. I will find them.
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  #2099  
Old 04-30-2018, 09:21 PM
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She didn't in the same way even the spouses of Monarchs haven't changed relationships.

The royals have no power between countries - that lies with Government.

She was the wife to the heir to the Throne - no diplomatic power at all.
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  #2100  
Old 04-30-2018, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
She didn't in the same way even the spouses of Monarchs haven't changed relationships.

The royals have no power between countries - that lies with Government.

She was the wife to the heir to the Throne - no diplomatic power at all.
Strictly speaking you are correct, but I think Kitty has made it clear that she's talking about soft diplomacy, which Diana was a pro at. The government may have directed her to go to a certain country, but the charm she laid on was not something the government could order up, and it was arguably as powerful if not more than the actual diplomats' work.
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