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  #2001  
Old 11-22-2017, 08:02 PM
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Diana mean absolutely nothing to most of the world's 30 and under population, excepting the British. Most Americans under 30 can't even name her when they see her picture. They could care less who or what she was. It is like anyone else; entertainers, sport figures, world royals, etc. A few decades after their death their lives fade. Diana died young and pretty in awful circumstances which we will always think of as sad but it was just one in many awful events that year. Even members of our own family lives fade after many years. They might be thought of occasionally but they no longer affect our lives daily. Diana will certainly be mentioned in history books as the birth mother of a king but the fanatical worship of her will be a thing of the past. It happens, it is life. By the time George is king [if ever] Diana will be just a nice picture hanging in a gallery and George's immediate family will be aces.
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  #2002  
Old 11-22-2017, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
Diana mean absolutely nothing to most of the world's 30 and under population, excepting the British. Most Americans under 30 can't even name her when they see her picture. They could care less who or what she was. It is like anyone else; entertainers, sport figures, world royals, etc. A few decades after their death their lives fade. Diana died young and pretty in awful circumstances which we will always think of as sad but it was just one in many awful events that year. Even members of our own family lives fade after many years. They might be thought of occasionally but they no longer affect our lives daily. Diana will certainly be mentioned in history books as the birth mother of a king but the fanatical worship of her will be a thing of the past. It happens, it is life. By the time George is king [if ever] Diana will be just a nice picture hanging in a gallery and George's immediate family will be aces.
You don’t know that. Diana to this day is still very well known. I think your underestimating Diana’s impact.

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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
I have to ask: What relationship(s) did she build?
When on royal tours. Read articles and mostly documentary about her. She had a special quality and power about her.
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  #2003  
Old 11-22-2017, 08:25 PM
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If Diana meant nothing in the history of the royal family, if her popularity was such a brief blip, how to explain the many documentaries and articles in the media twenty years after her death?

This was a woman who was intensely human whatever her faults and she wanted to make a difference. Hence her adoption of unpopular causes like AIDS and Landmines.

I saw her several times in her lifetime. I saw people's reaction to her in crowds. I'm old enough to remember a BRF that was considered out of touch, members who never hugged ordinary people, or chatted in a down to earth way to members of the public they met, perhaps sharing a giggle, who never got down to ground level to speak to little children, who never went over and spoke to people waiting for them behind barriers, who never sat by a hospital bed or wheelchair holding someone's hand.

She visited some patient's families privately and became great friends with them. Did other royals do that then or before Diana? Perhaps Kate Kent? I doubt whether any of the others did. A person at an AIDS hospice spoke of Diana putting her on her knee when she was a child and the comfort she felt from it.

She told Harry about it on his visit to the same hospice and that was well over twenty years later. She still remembered. There are people I know who met her and over thirty years later can still remember her smile, what she said, her beauty, the twinkle in her eye, the warmth she exuded.

When you can't remember those things it's natural to be dismissive but to me and to thousands like me Diana humanised the royal family, and I'm not talking about respect. The Royal family has always had respect through my lifetime. Diana is remembered with love by many and for the reasons I've just stated above.

Yes, she had her faults, her weaknesses, her flaws, but so does everyone, and that includes every other Royal, and every one of us.

However, if I lived on in people's hearts the way that Diana has among those who remember her I would feel proud, and I think that's how how her sons feel, extraordinarily proud. Because in the end, she made a difference, she really did.
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  #2004  
Old 11-22-2017, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
Diana mean absolutely nothing to most of the world's 30 and under population, excepting the British. Most Americans under 30 can't even name her when they see her picture. They could care less who or what she was. It is like anyone else; entertainers, sport figures, world royals, etc. A few decades after their death their lives fade. Diana died young and pretty in awful circumstances which we will always think of as sad but it was just one in many awful events that year. Even members of our own family lives fade after many years. They might be thought of occasionally but they no longer affect our lives daily. Diana will certainly be mentioned in history books as the birth mother of a king but the fanatical worship of her will be a thing of the past. It happens, it is life. By the time George is king [if ever] Diana will be just a nice picture hanging in a gallery and George's immediate family will be aces.
I have to disagree. Diana is a celebrity icon in the same way Marilyn Monroe and Elvis Presley are. Interest in her has little to do with the royal family anymore. It has a lot to do with the fact that she was an attractive world known woman who died tragically at a young age. That's why there was the over the top coverage of the 20th anniversary of her death-there is still interest.
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  #2005  
Old 11-22-2017, 08:37 PM
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No one is denying that Diana did good. She did. She came onto the world stage for a short time and took it almost as if by storm. Storms pass though and the sun comes out again.

I think you're building Diana up to be much more than she really was. Most of us here have come to see Diana from many different angles. We don't see her as "Princess Diana" (which by the way is a title she never held) or a "fairy tale princess" and see her as Diana, Princess of Wales. A person. Not her popularity. Not her fashions. Not her public appearances and photographs but as a troubled person that had a lot of issues in her life that not only affected her but also her relationships with those around her and had wider repercussions that weren't exactly qualifying her for "sainthood". It got to the point that the British government was calling her a "loose cannon".

Sure Diana is still well known. So is Marilyn Monroe, Elvis, John F. Kennedy and a whole lot of other people that were on the world stage. Each of them have their own section of the public that is interested in these people. Outside of royal watchers and those that lived through the Diana years like I did, there just simply isn't the interest.

Life goes on.
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  #2006  
Old 11-22-2017, 08:39 PM
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Everytime I visit these threads (and that's not often), I come into these wild discussions about her popularity, but when people can say that ''no one can ever be as popular as Diana was'', then I have to say somthing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Her popularity wasn't a blip. If it were no one would care about her anymore yet they still do and this is worldwide. You seem to forget that she was a force when it comes to charming leaders on royal tour and building relationships for Britain too.
This will be my last post discussing this, but as I said in my previous post, the Queen has done that for over 60 years, and the same goes for other BRF members.

And back to Diana: She damaged and turned a revered institution into her own soap opera, attacked her husband on television, embarrassing and treating the Queen like crap (calling the royal family for germans) and putting the future of her own sons at risk. And she did nothing for charity compared to Charles and other members of the family. Thats her legacy. I'm saying that Charles is blameless? Of course not, but that is another discussion.

And Osipi is right, Diana drew crowds wherever she went, but so did Charles in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.

And compared to the crowds the Queen drew in the 50s 60s and 70s (yes other times) and 80s and 90s and for her Golden and Diamond Jubilee tours around the UK, the crowds for Diana were nothing.

Still in this day and age when she dossn't do walkabouts anymore, 16,000 people come out to see the Queen sitting in a cloced car for her visit to Leicester in April for the Maundy Service.

And Curryong (as you know) I really appreciate your posts, but I think you should read points 7, 8, 9 and 10 in post 1997.

BTW, I edited post 2000 (due to my dyslexia) right after I wrote it.
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  #2007  
Old 11-22-2017, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
If Diana meant nothing in the history of the royal family, if her popularity was such a brief blip, how to explain the many documentaries and articles in the media twenty years after her death?

This was a woman who was intensely human whatever her faults and she wanted to make a difference. Hence her adoption of unpopular causes like AIDS and Landmines.

I saw her several times in her lifetime. I saw people's reaction to her in crowds. I'm old enough to remember a BRF that was considered out of touch, members who never hugged ordinary people, or chatted in a down to earth way to members of the public they met, perhaps sharing a giggle, who never got down to ground level to speak to little children, who never went over and spoke to people waiting for them behind barriers, who never sat by a hospital bed or wheelchair holding someone's hand.

She visited some patient's families privately and became great friends with them. Did other royals do that then or before Diana? Perhaps Kate Kent? I doubt whether any of the others did. A person at an AIDS hospice spoke of Diana putting her on her knee when she was a child and the comfort she felt from it.

She told Harry about it on his visit to the same hospice and that was well over twenty years later. She still remembered. There are people I know who met her and over thirty years later can still remember her smile, what she said, her beauty, the twinkle in her eye, the warmth she exuded.

When you can't remember those things it's natural to be dismissive but to me and to thousands like me Diana humanised the royal family, and I'm not talking about respect. The Royal family has always had respect through my lifetime. Diana is remembered with love by many and for the reasons I've just stated above.

Yes, she had her faults, her weaknesses, her flaws, but so does everyone, and that includes every other Royal, and every one of us.

However, if I lived on in people's hearts the way that Diana has among those who remember her I would feel proud, and I think that's how how her sons feel, extraordinarily proud. Because in the end, she made a difference, she really did.
I agree. She was special and still no princess after her as had the same reaction she has had in life and in death.
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  #2008  
Old 11-22-2017, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
I agree. She was special and still no princess after her as had the same reaction she has had in life and in death.
Thank goodness!
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  #2009  
Old 11-22-2017, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
Thank goodness!
I agree. The last thing we need is another Diana. One was enough.
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  #2010  
Old 11-22-2017, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
Thank goodness!
It will never happen again because Diana was one of a kind just like The Queen is, MJ, Elvis, Monroe, JFK, Princess Grace.
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  #2011  
Old 11-22-2017, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
It will never happen again because Diana was one of a kind just like The Queen is, MJ, Elvis, Monroe, JFK, Princess Grace.

....that looks like a roll-call of Andy Warhol portrait subjects. Except for Bill Monroe of course, although he deserved it plenty!
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  #2012  
Old 11-22-2017, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
If Diana meant nothing in the history of the royal family, if her popularity was such a brief blip, how to explain the many documentaries and articles in the media twenty years after her death?

This was a woman who was intensely human whatever her faults and she wanted to make a difference. Hence her adoption of unpopular causes like AIDS and Landmines.

I saw her several times in her lifetime. I saw people's reaction to her in crowds. I'm old enough to remember a BRF that was considered out of touch, members who never hugged ordinary people, or chatted in a down to earth way to members of the public they met, perhaps sharing a giggle, who never got down to ground level to speak to little children, who never went over and spoke to people waiting for them behind barriers, who never sat by a hospital bed or wheelchair holding someone's hand.

She visited some patient's families privately and became great friends with them. Did other royals do that then or before Diana? Perhaps Kate Kent? I doubt whether any of the others did. A person at an AIDS hospice spoke of Diana putting her on her knee when she was a child and the comfort she felt from it.

She told Harry about it on his visit to the same hospice and that was well over twenty years later. She still remembered. There are people I know who met her and over thirty years later can still remember her smile, what she said, her beauty, the twinkle in her eye, the warmth she exuded.

When you can't remember those things it's natural to be dismissive but to me and to thousands like me Diana humanised the royal family, and I'm not talking about respect. The Royal family has always had respect through my lifetime. Diana is remembered with love by many and for the reasons I've just stated above.

Yes, she had her faults, her weaknesses, her flaws, but so does everyone, and that includes every other Royal, and every one of us.

However, if I lived on in people's hearts the way that Diana has among those who remember her I would feel proud, and I think that's how how her sons feel, extraordinarily proud. Because in the end, she made a difference, she really did.
I do have to say this Curryong, ***Very Well Said*** and for those that want this woman to fade away into the past, not going to happen any time soon.

Just remember that **each and everyone of us has faults and none of us is or are perfect**.
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  #2013  
Old 11-22-2017, 10:06 PM
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Thank you M. Payton. I haven't forgotten Diana and never will. And no belittling of her and her legacy will change my mind.
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  #2014  
Old 11-22-2017, 10:59 PM
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Thank You Curryong, thing is there is absolutely nothing anyone can say or do about Diana, nothing!

People just seem to forget that she lived her life on an emotional rolly coaster and in her marriage she became a *Woman Scorned* and women scorned in a marriage can and do create hell on earth for everyone around them and they do everything to get revenge. Diana ran and took off with all her feelings, not thinking, her feelings and we all know what happened.

There is plenty of blame to pass around, not just Diana either, each member of the royal family has some blame on them for they did not take great care of her. You do not think of one minute that any woman would accept a *mistress* into her life with her husband and think it was okay? This was acceptable in this family for that is the way things were done in the past........she really bulked at that didn't she? So yes she used everyone and everything around to get even, she did and said every ugly thing to anyone who would listen and she was a deeply hurt woman yet she gave of herself to others because she had no one else to give to except her boys.

This is how I view Diana:
Here is a woman alone in this world who has no one to turn to, so she adopts a dog of all things..........she cherished and loves and nurtures that dog, she takes great care of the dog, it becomes her life, someone to love who won't hurt or bit back and accepts her.

Alone in the world is being in a royal family that she trusted no one and had no reason to trust anyone. The dog is her public and it won't bit back and hurt her for she only gave so much to the public. I am talking about the public not the media here for the media sure could not be trusted as she found out also.

She failed miserably in letting anyone in for she lacked one big thing in life and it was taken away from her............TRUST.......she trusted no one to be honest and loving with her because she was terrified of trusting anyone.

Yes Diana did all those things, each and every one of them and IMHO here, think most want her to fade into oblivion and never to return, well that will *Never* happen for one very simple reason, she has 2 very wonderful boys whom still to this day LOVE their mother regardless of her faults and yes, there were plenty of faults as we each and everyone of us has faults (least we forget we are not perfect either). Those boys, William and Harry carry on her legacy till the end of time, they are part of her legacy and if anyone thinks in getting rid of Diana they are sadly mistaken for both will never let that happen. So what if it is 20/30 years from now and most don't know her and what she did......(do we all know that Elvis did at that age and how he messed up lives as some keep bringing his name up here) her family will keep her alive in their works and minds and hearts.

My opinion, it is just **my opinion* of Diana. I accept her the way she is and understand her, her place in history will be rewritten a dozen times over again and again and each time it will be different just like everyone else in history.

We do NOT know her feelings and why she did what she did, we just know what happened and surmise why she created all that hell on earth.

Sorry for the rant and yes bring it on each and everyone .......

It is not about who is popular or not, who did what or not, the past is moot here...yet she is not going anywhere anytime soon even in death!
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  #2015  
Old 11-22-2017, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
If Diana meant nothing in the history of the royal family, if her popularity was such a brief blip, how to explain the many documentaries and articles in the media twenty years after her death?

This was a woman who was intensely human whatever her faults and she wanted to make a difference. Hence her adoption of unpopular causes like AIDS and Landmines.

I saw her several times in her lifetime. I saw people's reaction to her in crowds. I'm old enough to remember a BRF that was considered out of touch, members who never hugged ordinary people, or chatted in a down to earth way to members of the public they met, perhaps sharing a giggle, who never got down to ground level to speak to little children, who never went over and spoke to people waiting for them behind barriers, who never sat by a hospital bed or wheelchair holding someone's hand.

She visited some patient's families privately and became great friends with them. Did other royals do that then or before Diana? Perhaps Kate Kent? I doubt whether any of the others did. A person at an AIDS hospice spoke of Diana putting her on her knee when she was a child and the comfort she felt from it.

She told Harry about it on his visit to the same hospice and that was well over twenty years later. She still remembered. There are people I know who met her and over thirty years later can still remember her smile, what she said, her beauty, the twinkle in her eye, the warmth she exuded.

When you can't remember those things it's natural to be dismissive but to me and to thousands like me Diana humanised the royal family, and I'm not talking about respect. The Royal family has always had respect through my lifetime. Diana is remembered with love by many and for the reasons I've just stated above.

Yes, she had her faults, her weaknesses, her flaws, but so does everyone, and that includes every other Royal, and every one of us.

However, if I lived on in people's hearts the way that Diana has among those who remember her I would feel proud, and I think that's how how her sons feel, extraordinarily proud. Because in the end, she made a difference, she really did.


Excellent post Curryong
You always write so lovely about Diana

I’m always amused at posters saying no one cares about her etc but obviously they do or we wouldn’t have so many many threads about her.
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  #2016  
Old 11-23-2017, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post
Thank You Curryong, thing is there is absolutely nothing anyone can say or do about Diana, nothing!

People just seem to forget that she lived her life on an emotional rolly coaster and in her marriage she became a *Woman Scorned* and women scorned in a marriage can and do create hell on earth for everyone around them and they do everything to get revenge. Diana ran and took off with all her feelings, not thinking, her feelings and we all know what happened.

There is plenty of blame to pass around, not just Diana either, each member of the royal family has some blame on them for they did not take great care of her. You do not think of one minute that any woman would accept a *mistress* into her life with her husband and think it was okay? This was acceptable in this family for that is the way things were done in the past........she really bulked at that didn't she? So yes she used everyone and everything around to get even, she did and said every ugly thing to anyone who would listen and she was a deeply hurt woman yet she gave of herself to others because she had no one else to give to except her boys.

This is how I view Diana:
Here is a woman alone in this world who has no one to turn to, so she adopts a dog of all things..........she cherished and loves and nurtures that dog, she takes great care of the dog, it becomes her life, someone to love who won't hurt or bit back and accepts her.

Alone in the world is being in a royal family that she trusted no one and had no reason to trust anyone. The dog is her public and it won't bit back and hurt her for she only gave so much to the public. I am talking about the public not the media here for the media sure could not be trusted as she found out also.

She failed miserably in letting anyone in for she lacked one big thing in life and it was taken away from her............TRUST.......she trusted no one to be honest and loving with her because she was terrified of trusting anyone.

Yes Diana did all those things, each and every one of them and IMHO here, think most want her to fade into oblivion and never to return, well that will *Never* happen for one very simple reason, she has 2 very wonderful boys whom still to this day LOVE their mother regardless of her faults and yes, there were plenty of faults as we each and everyone of us has faults (least we forget we are not perfect either). Those boys, William and Harry carry on her legacy till the end of time, they are part of her legacy and if anyone thinks in getting rid of Diana they are sadly mistaken for both will never let that happen. So what if it is 20/30 years from now and most don't know her and what she did......(do we all know that Elvis did at that age and how he messed up lives as some keep bringing his name up here) her family will keep her alive in their works and minds and hearts.

My opinion, it is just **my opinion* of Diana. I accept her the way she is and understand her, her place in history will be rewritten a dozen times over again and again and each time it will be different just like everyone else in history.

We do NOT know her feelings and why she did what she did, we just know what happened and surmise why she created all that hell on earth.

Sorry for the rant and yes bring it on each and everyone .......

It is not about who is popular or not, who did what or not, the past is moot here...yet she is not going anywhere anytime soon even in death!
BEAUTIFUL!!! She is still the perfect princess!!
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  #2017  
Old 11-23-2017, 01:17 AM
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Kitty, Nobody is perfect and Diana was surely not perfect. She was human like all of us and someone who did not understand how to control her feelings which she acted on which in turn created hell on earth for many yet she loved her boys deeply. Take the good with the bad and accept who she was in everything!
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  #2018  
Old 11-23-2017, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Yeah Diana was a superstar something we have not seen in the British monarchy in a very long time and after her death we have not seen anyone like her ever again. So makes me think she was a rarity can't be duplicated. She should everywhere she went and was also credited for resorting relationships to Britain when on royal tours. She was a great asset.
I agreed that Diana was a super star, but in saying that I am not making any comment on her popularity. (A great many layers to the Diana phenomenon are getting conflated). She was an event, very much the creation of the tabloid press of the time. The problem was the projection people engaged in regarding her did not jive with who she was as a person in private. She was a unique blend of tabloid focus and BRF mystique. Both went hand-in-glove to create the phenomenon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Diana still to this day has the best picture perfect princess and second is Grace Kelly.
I think by this you mean her physical presentation, her style, and public manner, her public image. Maybe. Maybe you are right but it would be a subjective call. I personally do not think she has 'aged well' fashion wise. There are a few stunning photos, and some superlative gowns, but she is so very 1980's. I was enamored of Queen Sylvia of Sweden at the time and to me she was the quintessential Queen (and I still feel that way). I would agree about Princess Grace who had a genuinely mature and gracious manner, but Diana never came close to that level of classiness in my view. You see? Subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I have to disagree. Diana is a celebrity icon in the same way Marilyn Monroe and Elvis Presley are. Interest in her has little to do with the royal family anymore. It has a lot to do with the fact that she was an attractive world known woman who died tragically at a young age. That's why there was the over the top coverage of the 20th anniversary of her death-there is still interest.
I agree. She is iconic as much for her complexity and drama as her royalty. She's a cautionary tale. There is a reason no one will be her again. I don't think the BRF will ever allow any young woman (like Diana and Sarah) to get the upper hand again. Just my hunch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
I agree. She was special and still no princess after her as had the same reaction she has had in life and in death.
There's no denying that but I do know people who are embarrassed at the public hysteria engaged around her. It was unhealthy, and remains so imo (wherever it lingers). We have the tabloids (still) and Diana's machinations to thank for that hysteria. She knew how to play the crowd, she had a 6th sense for it, like some current politicians do. Something about certain people, how they speak, connects to some visceral level, and the game is on. So it was with Diana.

That's how I see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
It will never happen again because Diana was one of a kind just like The Queen is, MJ, Elvis, Monroe, JFK, Princess Grace.
Human nature being human nature, I think it will happen again, and not for the good necessarily. It's happening now. Hysteria is an unfortunate human tendency. Some people feed off it, foment it, luxuriate in it. Diana was one such (in my view). The story would have been so much different had she not been of that tendency.
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  #2019  
Old 11-23-2017, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
I agreed that Diana was a super star, but in saying that I am not making any comment on her popularity. (A great many layers to the Diana phenomenon are getting conflated). She was an event, very much the creation of the tabloid press of the time. The problem was the projection people engaged in regarding her did not jive with who she was as a person in private. She was a unique blend of tabloid focus and BRF mystique. Both went hand-in-glove to create the phenomenon.



I think by this you mean her physical presentation, her style, and public manner, her public image. Maybe. Maybe you are right but it would be a subjective call. I personally do not think she has 'aged well' fashion wise. There are a few stunning photos, and some superlative gowns, but she is so very 1980's. I was enamored of Queen Sylvia of Sweden at the time and to me she was the quintessential Queen (and I still feel that way). I would agree about Princess Grace who had a genuinely mature and gracious manner, but Diana never came close to that level of classiness in my view. You see? Subjective.



I agree. She is iconic as much for her complexity and drama as her royalty. She's a cautionary tale. There is a reason no one will be her again. I don't think the BRF will ever allow any young woman (like Diana and Sarah) to get the upper hand again. Just my hunch.



There's no denying that but I do know people who are embarrassed at the public hysteria engaged around her. It was unhealthy, and remains so imo (wherever it lingers). We have the tabloids (still) and Diana's machinations to thank for that hysteria. She knew how to play the crowd, she had a 6th sense for it, like some current politicians do. Something about certain people, how they speak, connects to some visceral level, and the game is on. So it was with Diana.

That's how I see it.



Human nature being human nature, I think it will happen again, and not for the good necessarily. It's happening now. Hysteria is an unfortunate human tendency. Some people feed off it, foment it, luxuriate in it. Diana was one such (in my view). The story would have been so much different had she not been of that tendency.
I think it will happen again it’s inevitable but in a different way. Still Diana to this day and when she was alive was/is a phenomenon. I agree with what you said about the the reason why she is the perfect princess image. But it’s obvious Diana and Grace are modern princesses that the world still loves. All in all I agree with your opinion!
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Old 11-23-2017, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I have to disagree. Diana is a celebrity icon in the same way Marilyn Monroe and Elvis Presley are. Interest in her has little to do with the royal family anymore. It has a lot to do with the fact that she was an attractive world known woman who died tragically at a young age. That's why there was the over the top coverage of the 20th anniversary of her death-there is still interest.
Yes, because there is still enough people over the age of 30 who buy magazines and watch televisions. Probably more people over the age of 40 who pay for cable and buy paper magazines. The younger population is moving towards more online which doesn't have the same financial draw.

Just as few people under the age of 40 care who Elvis or Marolyn Monroe are (other then cool art work to hang on a wall), same is happening with Diana. As the people who remember her get older, and eventually die off, any interest in her being some famous celebrity will die off as well.

She will one day simply be the mother of King William V.
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