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  #661  
Old 01-28-2018, 11:54 AM
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I think inquest numbered Barry as her lover. I could be wrong. She wanted to ran away with him as well as with hewitt.
I read somewhere rumors about Barry cheating on his wife.
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  #662  
Old 01-28-2018, 12:23 PM
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I think inquest numbered Barry as her lover. I could be wrong. She wanted to ran away with him as well as with hewitt.
I read somewhere rumors about Barry cheating on his wife.
Diana seemed to want to do a lot of things that sometimes only existed in her own mind and the other person was not consulted, willing or interested.
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  #663  
Old 01-31-2018, 04:36 AM
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I think inquest numbered Barry as her lover. I could be wrong. She wanted to ran away with him as well as with hewitt.
I read somewhere rumors about Barry cheating on his wife.
from tina brown article
<<"James Hewitt in his memoir Love And War said that Diana told him she and Mannakee were lovers. But Brown accepts the liaison as true only because it was confirmed to her by Dr James Colthurst, Diana's confidant and trusted friend.">>
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  #664  
Old 01-31-2018, 04:44 AM
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I still wouldn't accept it as gospel truth. To be honest, I don't trust anything that Diana supposedly said. I do believe that its possible though and it has been reported that Mannakee was removed from Diana's detail because of "inappropriate behavior" and reassigned.

Some things we'll never know for sure about.
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  #665  
Old 01-31-2018, 05:31 PM
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I still wouldn't accept it as gospel truth. To be honest, I don't trust anything that Diana supposedly said. I do believe that its possible though and it has been reported that Mannakee was removed from Diana's detail because of "inappropriate behavior" and reassigned. Some things we'll never know for sure about.
Curious why you might discount this factoid as untrue? Not saying you necessarily believe all Diana says, but curious why you are not buying this one bit?

Admitting that she was Mannakee's lover pretty much places Diana in the position of having been the first in the marriage to have strayed, not so? Why would she set herself up for that unless there was some truth to it?

Somewhere in all the literature there is the story that either Charles himself or someone else walked in on Diana sitting on Manakee's lap. Clearly boundaries were being crossed. That Diana attests to them having been lovers seems pretty persuasive to me since Diana spun a lot but she always spun on what could be considered facts.

Bottom line, Charles knew about the flirtation and/or affair, and once he knew action was taken. (My bias is that Charles was not cheating on Diana when he started to become aware of Diana's wandering eye: imagine the effect on him with this knowledge, with the added twist that he was now aware that Diana was not to be 'controlled' in any way).
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  #666  
Old 01-31-2018, 08:46 PM
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The thing I'm not absolutely sure about with Mannakee is if it was a full blown affair or just wishing and hoping on Diana's part. Diana and Barry did have to spend a lot of time together. That was his job. Charles had a pretty full calendar and places to go and places to be which was a problem for Diana in the early years of the marriage. Mannakee was there no matter where she went. I do believe that they formed a very close, intimate relationship and it was construed as being inappropriate. Whether or not they actually had an affair has never really been proven. Mannakee, however, was the ideal person for Diana to turn her attention to. He was affording her the time and the interest that she actually wanted from Charles. What we don't know is just in what regard Mannkee held Diana. Did he cheat on his wife and children? Was he going along being close to Diana because it was his job? After being reassigned, there is no indication that there were problems in the Mannakee marriage. We'll never know as Mannakee was killed in an accident which, by all accounts, devastated Diana.

Diana, though, was always on the lookout for someone to talk to. If I remember right, even on their honeymoon, Charles relaxed by reading books while Diana was interacting and conversing with the ship's crew. It happened when Diana was staying with the Queen Mother (I think this is right). She was fond of wandering into the kitchen and chatting with the staff. If I'm not mistaken, it was Backstairs Billy that told her "This side of the door is ours ma'am. Yours is through there." or something to that effect.

To me, this is a big indication of just how different Diana and Charles were. He was pretty much the introvert and could happily entertain himself with reading and painting and alone time. Diana needed people and conversation and interactions. There are many reports that say Diana constantly was glued to her phone.

This is why I question that there was a full blown affair. There were a lot of factors at play in those years that doesn't necessarily mean "wandering" or "cheating" or an open marriage but actually points at two different types of people with different needs. Although there was infidelity in the Wales marriage, I don't believe that was the solely the reason for the breakdown of the marriage in the first place. Infidelity was an outcome of a marriage that didn't work.
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  #667  
Old 01-31-2018, 09:33 PM
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The thing I'm not absolutely sure about with Mannakee is if it was a full blown affair or just wishing and hoping on Diana's part.
I tend to think it was Diana's interpretation of Barry's attentiveness. He had to be around her to protect her and apparently she had a certain charm. I don't doubt he was a companion to her and was flattered by her interest in him. But I think it was more emotional than physical.
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  #668  
Old 02-01-2018, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by aigulminimalist View Post
from tina brown article
<<"James Hewitt in his memoir Love And War said that Diana told him she and Mannakee were lovers. But Brown accepts the liaison as true only because it was confirmed to her by Dr James Colthurst, Diana's confidant and trusted friend.">>
My recollection of Tina B's book was that she flet that "james Hewitt had no particular reason to lie" about Diana saying that Manakee was her lover.. (of course he had but that's not the point). I don't recall her taking it on trust because James Colthurst had said so.
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  #669  
Old 02-01-2018, 07:04 AM
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Wasn't James Colthurst the go between guy between Diana and Andrew Morton for the Morton book? Sounds familiar to me.
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  #670  
Old 02-01-2018, 07:49 AM
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yes he was... and for a time he was a close firend of hers....However, i don't believe he was friends wit her at the time when she might have ben in love iwht Barry Manakee...
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  #671  
Old 02-01-2018, 05:33 PM
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Curious why you might discount this factoid as untrue? Not saying you necessarily believe all Diana says, but curious why you are not buying this one bit?

Admitting that she was Mannakee's lover pretty much places Diana in the position of having been the first in the marriage to have strayed, not so? Why would she set herself up for that unless there was some truth to it?

Somewhere in all the literature there is the story that either Charles himself or someone else walked in on Diana sitting on Manakee's lap. Clearly boundaries were being crossed. That Diana attests to them having been lovers seems pretty persuasive to me since Diana spun a lot but she always spun on what could be considered facts.

Bottom line, Charles knew about the flirtation and/or affair, and once he knew action was taken. (My bias is that Charles was not cheating on Diana when he started to become aware of Diana's wandering eye: imagine the effect on him with this knowledge, with the added twist that he was now aware that Diana was not to be 'controlled' in any way).
Agree.
Diana wanted to run with Barry. She tried to please him. (another man though it should be her husband!). As a married woman, Diana committed (at least) emotional cheating.
Many find themselves cheating their spouses unwittingly via illicit and seemingly 'unharmful' emotional relationship. what's worse? physical cheating or emotional cheating? personally i feel that both is equally as bad bc emotional cheating, they obviously have a connection with someone else while you’re over here loving them more than life and they love/want somebody else and physical, well that speaks for itself.
could Charles perceive the relationship between Barry and Diana as an emotional / physical affair?
I wonder what would happen if Barry affair/flirt didnt happen at all? I read that Diana, Charles distanced themselves in 1985. As I understand it, Diana became close with Barry in 1985.
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  #672  
Old 02-01-2018, 11:45 PM
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What it all boils down to is one out of two things.

1. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
2. Absence makes the heart go wander.

We can talk about infidelity until the cows come home and wonder who wandered first or when it all hit the fan and who reacted how and what were the consequences but the basic truth remains. If Charles and Diana had a loving relationship that worked and they were devoted to each other, none of the above would be something we would be discussing.
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  #673  
Old 02-02-2018, 12:46 AM
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Agree.
Diana wanted to run with Barry. She tried to please him (another man though it should be her husband!).
Interesting, isn't it.

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Originally Posted by aigulminimalist View Post
As a married woman, Diana committed (at least) emotional cheating. Many find themselves cheating their spouses unwittingly via illicit and seemingly 'unharmful' emotional relationship. what's worse? physical cheating or emotional cheating? personally i feel that both is equally as bad bc emotional cheating, they obviously have a connection with someone else while you’re over here loving them more than life and they love/want somebody else and physical, well that speaks for itself. could Charles perceive the relationship between Barry and Diana as an emotional / physical affair?
What's interesting about all the reams written about this couple is that at no time is the impact on Charles ever considered, except to posit him in the most negative light. I'm sure Charles wasn't perfect, but we have considerable evidence that Charles was very much into the marriage in the beginning and definitely liked Diana lots (the perfect seed ground for real love to emerge). Charles (we know) viewed marriage very seriously. He had enormous stakes riding on this partnership working across decades. Why someone of Charles' (always admitted) sensitivity (and dedication to duty) would sandbag his marriage (that for him was dynastic) makes no sense. It's these little side gestures that point to how the 'mythic spin' dissolves into nothing. (I am of the bias that one needs to approach this couple like one is doing forensic research, makes it a heckuvva lot more interesting).

We have Diana's say-so that Charles wasn't into the marriage from the get-go, that he was 'in love' with another woman, his 'first and only' love. Do we believe that? I don't. It's a stand-off.

There is a saying, attributed to someone despicable who will here remain nameless: "If you tell a lie long enough and loud enough it becomes the truth." I think when it comes to the mythos of this couple's marriage I think that can be applied to Diana's spin. She always factored in some truth, and the 'some truth' in this case was that Charles had profound friendships with a circle of close friends. Diana spun from there and out of it came the rationale for Charles 'not being there emotionally' for her. And why did she spin that? Because she was not there emotionally for Charles. Accuse what oneself is doing is the best defense. It's a deflection (which Diana did so well).


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Originally Posted by aigulminimalist View Post
I wonder what would happen if Barry affair/flirt didnt happen at all? I read that Diana, Charles distanced themselves in 1985. As I understand it, Diana became close with Barry in 1985.
My understanding is that Diana indicated that it was between 1984 to 1986 that she became involved (emotionally and/or physically) with Manakee. From Wikipedia: "In a tape recorded by Diana, Princess of Wales's voice coach Peter Settelen in 1992, Diana admitted herself that in 1984 through to 1986, she had been 'deeply in love with someone who worked in this environment.' Although she never used his name, it is thought she was referring to Mannakee. In 1986, Mannakee was transferred to the Diplomatic Protection Squad after his managers had determined his relationship with Diana had been "inappropriate' with Diana saying in the tape that Mannakee had been 'chucked out' from his role as her bodyguard following suspicion that the two were having an affair. She said 'I was only happy when he was around' and that his death was 'the biggest blow of my life.' "

We should perhaps note that the above means there was an overlap with James Hewitt (whom she was 'madly in love' with). Harry was born in September 1984. Though Diana paints the lead-up to Harry's birth as idyllic with Charles, 'the happiest they had been' or something to that effect (we don't have Charles' testimony on that) by the time of Harry's birth there was clearly some sort of significant breach in the marriage. Everything went south that fall. Charles was looking at not one, but two dalliances, undertaken by his wife. At what point did Charles look at what was happening, shut down, and walk away from the marriage? Important moment. Was this the 'irretrievably broken down' moment?
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  #674  
Old 02-03-2018, 12:35 AM
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We all know that Diana loved romantic novels. I read enough of them in my young adulthood to know that their heroes are protective. Once Diana realized that her marriage wasn't what she hoped it would be, who would appear more romantic to her than an older, protective, sympathetic man? Lady Diana Spencer was a girl and young woman who, I believe, wanted emotional rescue. A protection officer will literally lay down his life for the person he's protecting. It makes perfect sense to me that Diana would put Mannakee on some kind of knight-in-shining-armor pedestal and daydream about him. She was naturally flirtatious, and Mannakee might have responded in a light-hearted, jocular way not knowing how intense her feelings were.


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I tend to think it was Diana's interpretation of Barry's attentiveness. He had to be around her to protect her and apparently she had a certain charm. I don't doubt he was a companion to her and was flattered by her interest in him. But I think it was more emotional than physical.
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  #675  
Old 02-03-2018, 01:06 AM
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We all know that Diana loved romantic novels. I read enough of them in my young adulthood to know that their heroes are protective. Once Diana realized that her marriage wasn't what she hoped it would be, who would appear more romantic to her than an older, protective, sympathetic man? Lady Diana Spencer was a girl and young woman who, I believe, wanted emotional rescue. A protection officer will literally lay down his life for the person he's protecting. It makes perfect sense to me that Diana would put Mannakee on some kind of knight-in-shining-armor pedestal and daydream about him. She was naturally flirtatious, and Mannakee might have responded in a light-hearted, jocular way not knowing how intense her feelings were.
I think (maybe) you have romanticized Diana? Diana wanted control. Her life choices reek of that. Men survived her (like Hewitt) if they were malleable to her will, her every whim. If they were not they checked out pretty fast. We know enough about Diana's initial manner with men: flirtatious, submissive, seeking to please. It was after she reeled them in that she let them know they needed to tow a line.

Manakee was in a tough position as an employee required to 'make nice' with their charge. But like Charles, he likely too liked the attractive young woman looking up to him. Irresistible, and dangerous in his case.

As for her marriage not being what she wanted it to be: I think she found herself confronted with Charles finally saying no to demands she might make. That's all. But I also have the bias that Diana did not stray because of an unsatisfactory marriage, but because she was having her adolescent explorations that she had never had. The 'electricity' of her position opened up a whole new world of male possibilities. She was giddy. (Watch her in videos during that time). She simply was not mature enough to reel herself in, nor did she respect her position enough, I don't think. She did not respect the institution of the monarchy.

I think Diana was caught in the error we all get caught up in at some point in our maturation: I like/love you, therefore you must behave this way, the way I decide, and you must do this with me because I like/love you. It's a soon unlearnt delusion: that's not how relationships work. Somehow Diana got stuck, maybe it was her privileged status that allowed her to continue with illusions longer than most of us get to do in the hurly-burly of everyday life.
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  #676  
Old 02-03-2018, 03:09 AM
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Charles (we know) viewed marriage very seriously.

At what point did Charles look at what was happening, shut down, and walk away from the marriage? Important moment. Was this the 'irretrievably broken down' moment?

I doubt. If charles respected and revered the bonds of marriage, he wouldnt sleep with married women (kanga, camilla)


maybe the 'irretrievably broken down' moment was a mixture of everything: diana's threats, tantrums, moods, depression and finally affair with a bodyguard.

or that very humiliating moment for Charles when he caught Diana with a bodyguard.

I think Diana strayed first.
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  #677  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:45 AM
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It doesn't matter one bit who "strayed" first. No one strays from a happy. secure marriage that works for both partners.

This marriage was like mixing oil and vinegar. There was just no way it was going to work as a partnership. Diana had the expectations that she could change Charles after marriage to fit her mold of what a husband should be like. Charles was looking for a partner to share the life he'd already pretty much built up. The role of Prince of Wales got in the way. The close circle of friends that Charles already had established got in the way. Charles' personal past times got in the way and Diana felt she was getting the leftovers. She demanded he ditch his friends, curtail his duties and responsibilities and, in short, put her first.

This was a couple that never really formed a good, working relationship and partnership with each other and I think they both realized early on it was a mistake.
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  #678  
Old 02-03-2018, 06:15 AM
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It doesn't matter one bit who "strayed" first. No one strays from a happy. secure marriage that works for both partners.

This marriage was like mixing oil and vinegar. There was just no way it was going to work as a partnership. Diana had the expectations that she could change Charles after marriage to fit her mold of what a husband should be like. Charles was looking for a partner to share the life he'd already pretty much built up. The role of Prince of Wales got in the way. The close circle of friends that Charles already had established got in the way. Charles' personal past times got in the way and Diana felt she was getting the leftovers. She demanded he ditch his friends, curtail his duties and responsibilities and, in short, put her first.

This was a couple that never really formed a good, working relationship and partnership with each other and I think they both realized early on it was a mistake.
It did not help that Diana was extremely jealous and made up stories in her mind, as becomes painfully clear in this link:

Why Harry's still so close to Tiggy Legge-Bourke | Daily Mail Online
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  #679  
Old 02-03-2018, 07:00 AM
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Jealousy and possessiveness are two traits that will destroy a relationship right quick and Diana exhibited both of these traits in all of her relationships. You were either with Diana or against Diana with no middle ground.

Diana saw the boys getting close with Tiggy and felt that was a threat to her own relationships with her sons. Time to destroy things for Tiggy. From all accounts though, Tiggy was one of the best things to happen to William and Harry during those troubling years.
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:57 PM
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Several posts have been deleted as being off topic. This thread is about Diana's Friends, Lovers, and Bodyguards, not Diana and Charles or Charles and Tiggy.
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