Diana's Friends, Lovers and Bodyguards

[Denville]

I don't know but I thought that he was known to be having marital problems.. he might have been married till he die,d that doesn't mean that he didn't have a romantic feeling for Diana
I don't know why you don't believe he reciprocated her feelings. she was a beautiful woman giving him a lot of encouragement.. and he's a man..
If he had just been the object of her romantic fantasy, he would have and shoudl have requested a transfer himself..

[Osipi]

I guess I just see it one way and you see it another. Just because Diana was who she was, looked like she did and was pretty good on laying on the charm doesn't mean that any man within her sights is going to succumb to the spell she weaves. All we do know about the Mannakee/Diana relationship comes from Diana herself who actually isn't very reliable when she talks about people because she's been found to be contradictory many, many times.

I just think that if there was more to the story than what we know (Mannakee being transferred) and if there were romantic feelings on both sides, the transfer wouldn't have kept them apart. Once Mannakee was gone, that was it. Life went on. All we know post transfer is that Diana did really feel a loss when she was informed that Mannakee had been killed in a motorcycle accident.

This is just one area of Diana's life that is going to be forever unresolved as far as we're concerned.

[Denville]

Osipi, not to go on and on.. but I know there are some things in TIna Browns' book about other people's perspective on the relationship.. ( I haven't got the book to hand).. but Brown felt from what people had told her, that there had been a fully fledged affair. (so it isn't just what Diana told people.. which I admit can be unreliable.)

And I don't see why you'd feel that if they had been sexually attracted or rather if he had been sexually attracted to HER.. they would go on seeing each other somehow

If he was in danger of losing his job, he's not going to try and see her..
He woudl have known hat he coud not hope for any kind of serious relationship, and he wasn't going to lose his job over a fling that could only ever be a fling.

Diana was probably a bit scared too, if she knew that Manakee had been told off and moved to a new job and (according to some reports) Charles was annoyed about the friendship. and she knew she could not really run away with a policeman, so once it was over it was over. and then he died and perhaps that scared her ab it more in case there HAD been some funny business about his death

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Pranter

The Wharfe book was a good read.


LaRae

I found it unpleasant and disloyal and he's proved himself to be a very unattractive individual using his relatively short few years as Dis' bodyguard to prattle on and on making money out of her.

[Osipi]

Oh goodness gravy on top of potatoes!! Now I've got to go hunt and find that book by Tina Brown. That's one I've not read yet but keep meaning to get it one of these days. I guess that day came eh?

One of the best things about some conversations are that it leads to research and reading books. Thanks for reminding me of one I'd forgotten about.

ETA: I just found The Diana Chronicles and ordered it. Got me a first edition hardcover copy too for only $3.00 USD. Only thing that ranks right up there with a good book is a good deal on a good book.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Denville

I found it unpleasant and disloyal and he's proved himself to be a very unattractive individual using his relatively short few years as Dis' bodyguard to prattle on and on making money out of her.

What makes it interesting is that there are many books out there that were written by people who knew Diana from her butler to her housekeeper to her RPO to her energy consultant and various others that also found Diana as interesting as we do. It may seem like people like Burrell and Hewitt seem to be "cashing in" on their relationship with Diana but without them, we wouldn't have so many varied sources of what her life and times were like.

Imagine if Diana never courted the press or made public the agony she went through with her marriage to Charles and her relationships with various people. All we'd have is the historical facts that cannot be disputed such as her birth date, her wedding date and the birth of her sons and her tragic death. We wouldn't be having these conversations.

[Mirabel]

Originally Posted by Denville

I found it unpleasant and disloyal and he's proved himself to be a very unattractive individual using his relatively short few years as Dis' bodyguard to prattle on and on making money out of her.

But didn't most of the men in Diana's life use her?

She was usually a trophy.
(Even Charles used her to get an heir and a spare).

And I always thought she had the absolute worst taste in men ever.

[Jacknch]

A thread to discuss Diana and James Hewitt can be found here: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ewitt-132.html.

[Denville]

[W]ith Hoare, I think she wanted him back, perhaps when she realised she wasn't going to get him back she just accepted it, because I don't know of her criticising him. I think she was still in love with Khan, though she ended the relationship.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Whether private or public, Diana was going to have a hard time with any relationship she had, especially with men. She was indulged as a child and as an adult she continued such behavior.

[MARG]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

Whether private or public, Diana was going to have a hard time with any relationship she had, especially with men. She was indulged as a child and as an adult, she continued such behaviour.

Well, we have had well over 20 years to discuss and dissect the matter, but I wonder if, at its heart, that is the answer. She was spoiled as a small child, indulged as an adolescent and placated as a teenager and thereafter. Denville mentioned that Diana expected marriage to be perfect and instead she got a man who wasn't very good at being with her 24/7.

But seriously, what man can spend his every waking moment indulging his wife's every whim? Charles had a very varied and busy life. From polo to The Princes Trust, not to mention the full-time duties carried out as Prince of Wales. Diana had a life, she had her girlfriends and was the quintessential Sloan Ranger. Surely when she met with her friends after they married they talked about their lives and I am positive that none of them had their husband's total attention 24/7. Even their parents and friends parents, etc. all had husbands who had things called "jobs".

I think, more than anything else, Diana was in love with love and just wanted to get married. I don't think she got past the idea of a fairytale wedding. The realities of a young woman who had always got her own way coupled to that of an older man who was used to doing things on his own and in his own way was probably a shocker. But, to imply that she was "used to produce and heir and spare" is utterly ridiculous. If that were the main requirement for a royal bride I am sure Charles would have married a decade before. He had to actually like and admire the person he was going to spend the rest of his life with, and I believe they were initially both "in love".

I think many people who have seen videos and read endless books and magazine articles do not understand that Diana didn't really photograph that well. They never managed to capture her aura, her charisma (and she had it in spades) her sheer magnetic personality. She was riveting to watch in real life. I think the closest I have ever seen was a rare black and white photo of Diana and Mario Testino taken shortly after a photo shoot.

If you look you see that they are both totally engaged in what is happening. I don't know, a joke, someone in front of them, but he is utterly enthralled.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...08e2e28914.jpg

[Denville]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

Whether private or public, Diana was going to have a hard time with any relationship she had, especially with men. She was indulged as a child and as an adult she continued such behavior.

I don't see that she was indulged particularly. Her father and mother DID give her a lot of material things and they both were inclined not to push her to stick at things such as work, finishing shcol etc
But that was through laziness on their part rather than "overly loving feelings". It was easier to give the kids toys and things than to work with them.. and to try and see that they learned various things that they should know. Diana was never pushed to try harder at school or to stick things out...
that's not spoiling really, its essentially neglect.
She lost her mother as a little girl and never got over that loss. her father did not even try to make up to his kids for their mother's absence since he shut himself up and avoided them a lot.

Originally Posted by Osipi

She was baptized, married and buried in the Church of England so its safe to assume that she did. What her private thoughts on the matter were, we'll never know.

Not necessarily. As a member of the RF, she was bound to follow the ceremonies and rites of the C of E. But I think she did have religious and spiritual feelings and was interested in religion but she didn't have a very solid background in it.. so at times she was led into things like speaking to psychcis etc.

[Mirabel]

Originally Posted by MARG

I think many people who have seen videos and read endless books and magazine articles do not understand that Diana didn't really photograph that well. They never managed to capture her aura, her charisma (and she had it in spades) her sheer magnetic personality. She was riveting to watch in real life. I think the closest I have ever seen was a rare black and white photo of Diana and Mario Testino taken shortly after a photo shoot.

I agree with much of what you said, but not that Diana didn't photograph well.
I recall reading someplace that she had never been known to take a bad picture.

I'm not sure about the charisma either. If she'd had such a magnetic personality, wouldn't it have been evident before the marriage?

One of Charles' friends once sneered that Diana was nothing special. He said: If he hadn't married her, she'd have trouble getting a date.

I thought it wasmean-spirited, but it does suggest that, at the time, Diana didn't dazzle. That came after the press built her up, imo.

[Osipi]

I'm in the middle of reading Ken Wharfe's book "Diana: Closely Guarded Secret" which has proven to be a very insightful take on the years that Wharfe was her PPO.

I had to chuckle coming across the chapter relating Diana and her family's holiday on Necker Island when the boys were small. Wharfe talks about how he had to deal with the influx of reporters and paparazzi that interrupted their peace and quiet. The final solution made me laugh out loud. William and Harry and their cousins set up water balloon catapults and when boats got close enough, they peppered them good with them and the boats retreated.

I had to smile at that and wondered if perhaps William and Harry remembered their time getting revenge on the 'tographers when they were having such a blast with the water balloon catapults at the recent Party at the Palace. I'd like to think they did and shared a fond memory of being with their mother.

Wharfe's book is a good read and lays to rest a lot of things that have been said about Diana since she died that simply are not true.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I'm in the middle of reading Ken Wharfe's book "Diana
I had to smile at that and wondered if perhaps William and Harry remembered their time getting revenge on the 'tographers when they were having such a blast with the water balloon catapults at the recent Party at the Palace. I'd like to think they did and shared a fond memory of being with their mother.

Wharfe's book is a good read and lays to rest a lot of things that have been said about Diana since she died that simply are not true.

How do you know what he says is true??? what about his recording that William pulled off his mother's towel in front of Wharfe?

[Osipi]

From the tone of how Wharfe relates his experiences with Diana, William and Harry, I don't see any indication that would point to embellishing the truth. I'm more apt to think that if Wharfe found it amusing (like Diana did) to put in his anecdotes as they happened, it actually happened.

I found him to be very respectful and when one thinks about it, during those years Ken Wharfe was probably the closest person on earth to Diana and saw her in all her moods, all her ups and downs and ins and outs.

I found the water balloon assault kind of funny myself and it seems that as the boys grew into adulthood, they've not lost their inner child when it comes to making mischief.

[Denville]

You dont think that it shows a lack of taste to recount something like the anecdote of the towel even if it idd happen?
and I gather from things I've seene on this forum that he hasn't stopped using his few years as Di's policeman to make money out of her, now he's yammering on about how he thinks William is arrogant or what have you, when his acquaintance with him was for a few years over 20 years ago.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Denville

You dont think that it shows a lack of taste to recount something like the anecdote of the towel even if it idd happen?
and I gather from things I've seene on this forum that he hasn't stopped using his few years as Di's policeman to make money out of her, now he's yammering on about how he thinks William is arrogant or what have you, when his acquaintance with him was for a few years over 20 years ago.

The only impression I have of Mr. Wharfe so far is what I've read in his one book.

The towel incident, as related, didn't seem to bother Diana overly much as she laughed about it at the time. Her two boys were there and they were staying at Hewitt's mother's house. If anything, it was a prank pulled on them by one of her sons.

Frankly, I feel the more we read and know the experiences of Diana as seen by those close to her, the more we can objectively know what this complex human being was like.

[Mermaid1962]

I've enjoyed reading Wharfe's book as well. While there are things we didn't need to know--such as the towel story and the story about the mini-vibrator that Diana carried as sort of a good luck charm--I think that he strikes a good balance. He has neither the caustic criticism of Jephson's first book, nor does he have the weird oily tone that Burrell has.

[Denville]

I think the whole book is wrong. He is supposed to be bound by the Official Secrets act, even if not legally, as her PPO, he would have signed it and IMO its just as much making money out of a relationship which is supposed to be kept discreet, as someone like Hewitt writing a book. In addition Wwill and Harry DID protest about the book - first time they ever did...
IF William really did such a stupid thing, IMO it is not something that should have been talked about in a book, and Diana should certainly not have encouraged him by laughing about it. I'd prefer to believe, frankly that there may be some germ iof truth in it, but it may well belong to Mr Wharfe's imagination. Not to metntin as I recall that he basically said that Diana and Hoare were lovers, that he found Hoare out smoking in a passage, and joked to Di about her "playing strip poker" with Hoare.. it seems to me that he is jazzing up the book with all the sort of stotries that are bound to make it sell and are definitely not things that Di would have wanted talked about (if they happened).
I tried to read a bit of it years ago and I found the tone pretty daunting, I felt that he was quite hostile to her, he had left her service because he felt that she was keeping secrets from him and they didn't part on good terms..