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  #301  
Old 12-13-2017, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post

Not meaning to be OT yet I think that both William and Harry through their own experiences with in the family have come to take on the issue of mental health for they can understand how much it effected their mother. Diana was emotionally disturbed as a child I honestly believe and it was carried over unto her adult life with no one really understanding her let alone she did not understand what was going on emotionally in her mind. Being emotionally stable is one of the very crucial elements of being an mature adult and she just never made it that far in life for her life was cut way to short.
I'm sure Diana's mental health problems did spark off some of their interest, but it also seems to have come from their own problems, which were due mainly I think to Di's tragic death.
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  #302  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:11 AM
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I agree M Payton. I’ve always thought Diana’s emotional distress was the basis for the foundation set up by her sons, also perhaps, an outlet for their own inner turmoil dealing with her death. I agree too Denville everyone’s definition of love is different. IMO Diana didn’t feel love as a child and whether people realized or not, I certainly can’t say. I think she was searching for it—she just wanted to be wanted. It’s terribly sad.
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  #303  
Old 12-13-2017, 10:14 AM
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Of couse she was looking for love.. most people are. And I think that certainly her childhood was unhappy and she didn't get enough emotional "input" from her parents.. who were a selfish pair IMO. But I've not heard of her being "clingy" or "obsessive" with her earlier pre marital friends or boyfriends. She had emotional problems - but I think that it was her diffiuclt marriage and the difficulties of being so idolised by the press and public, yet in an ivory tower, that set off the childhood insecurities and pain again and she became more stormy and clinging....She was demanding of friends and later lovers.. but I don't recall any such stories of her friends in her girlhood...
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  #304  
Old 12-13-2017, 10:24 AM
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Nor did ever hear stories, nor did I imply she was a clingy prior. In fact I get the impression she was a loner. I guess I differ in opinion thinking she had emotions problems as a child that didn’t surface until later but we’ll never really know.
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  #305  
Old 12-13-2017, 10:36 AM
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Diana, in all the books I've read about her childhood, was a naturally born caretaker. She took care of her brother Charles and doted on taking care of her father in the absence of her mother. Perhaps that is a concept of love that stayed with her throughout her childhood. When you love someone, you take care of them. Add into that a teenage obsession with Barbara Cartland romance novels where the rich, handsome young man worships the ground of his beloved as they ride off into the sunset, its not hard to paint a picture of what Diana thought that love should be expressed as.

We only can give love as we have experienced it. Diana definitely showed that she wanted to "caretake" for Charles but the downside of it all was that Charles, himself, never had the need or or learned to caretake for others. To Diana, that meant her love wasn't returned as she expected it. Being married to The Prince of Wales, with all the responsibilities and requirements that role demanded on Charles, he also couldn't play the deeply, devoted, putting the woman on a pedestal before him and croon undying love for her 24/7 either.

In that marriage, both parties had a totally different concept of "whatever in love means" and they didn't mesh. Diana's mental instabilities such as her eating disorder was a physical manifestation of things being out of her control. She could control her body and unfortunately chose methods that harmed her physically just as her mental issues did in the long run.
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  #306  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think that's a little unfair. Love is a very strange thing and everyone's definition is different. I agree she was needy and possessive, but I think that was something that was sparked off by her marriage. She doesn't seem to have been particularly needy with her friends before her marriage, but I think that when she got married and it was very difficult, it opened up childhood wounds and she got very obsessed with Charles and whether he loved her and she did want his attention all the time.
Charles pulled away, she was bulimic and ill and depressed and while Charles tried to help, it was difficult for both of them.. and it didnt' work..
And she then did become very needy with her friends, and with future lovers....
I think that Diana being possessive preceded her marriage, she reportedly became possessive of her father after the divorce. There were stories of her acting out against her nannies because, among other things, she thought they were trying to snare her father. And of there was her not so nice behavior towards her father's second wife.
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  #307  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:16 AM
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Some of that behavior, after her parents divorce, can hardly be held against her..she was a child. They don't reason things out like that they tend to just react to situations.

What child isn't somewhat possessive of the remaining parent when they have been (to them) abandoned by the other?

She did reconcile with her step-mother.



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  #308  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:18 AM
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As far as her marriage goes, Charles represented stability, so of course when she didn't feel secure the inclination is to tighten the grip. There there were other things going on too.


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  #309  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Some of that behavior, after her parents divorce, can hardly be held against her..she was a child. They don't reason things out like that they tend to just react to situations.

What child isn't somewhat possessive of the remaining parent when they have been (to them) abandoned by the other?

She did reconcile with her step-mother.



LaRae
Diana and Raine's relationship did not become amicable until the mid-1990s.

I am not holding Diana's behavior against her, at least not in this context, but I am responding to a comment that Diana being needy and possessive was "sparked" during her marriage.
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  #310  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:15 PM
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I just don't feel that Frances Shand Kydd was a particularly nurturing person really. There was all that crying and 'I don't want you to go!' business with her young children during the separation with Johnny when they had to return home after a weekend with her. That must have been very upsetting for her children. Then, when Diana was about eleven Frances and Peter removed themselves to a very remote part of the Scottish coast.

She was present during Diana's engagement being helpful, and taking Diana off to Australia for a holiday. She then sort of disappeared again after Diana married, murmuring things about her firm belief that parents should be superfluous, should not be around their adult children's marriages. While that might be correct in one sense, she never really seemed to be there as Diana's rock, when she was needed, even as a confidante. It must have left her daughter feeling lost and alone at many points of her life.
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  #311  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:15 PM
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The heartache of her parents divorce and her nurturing nature compounded by a disastrous marriage was something, I think was an everyday struggle to reconcile and recover from in her short life. It’s heartbreaking.
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  #312  
Old 12-13-2017, 08:38 PM
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I recently watched this year's documentary featuring some of the tapes she recorded for Andrew Morton. I don't think that everything she said to Morton was absolutely true; however, she did say that she didn't have boyfriends (presumably she meant "intimate boyfriends/lovers")because she thought that she was "too messed up" or something similar. It's a though Diana was aware as a teen that she had some kind of emotional problems. At least, that's what I took from it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Of couse she was looking for love.. most people are. And I think that certainly her childhood was unhappy and she didn't get enough emotional "input" from her parents.. who were a selfish pair IMO. But I've not heard of her being "clingy" or "obsessive" with her earlier pre marital friends or boyfriends. She had emotional problems - but I think that it was her diffiuclt marriage and the difficulties of being so idolised by the press and public, yet in an ivory tower, that set off the childhood insecurities and pain again and she became more stormy and clinging....She was demanding of friends and later lovers.. but I don't recall any such stories of her friends in her girlhood...
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  #313  
Old 12-13-2017, 08:54 PM
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One thing I did notice in relation to her friends as a single woman about town in London is that it was stated in quite a few sources that I've read that Diana very much was the caretaker of the household and was constantly looking after her roomies and tidying things up. One even remarked that Diana would grab the plates and start washing them before they were even done eating.

Most sources I've read too stated that Diana kept her male friends at arm's length because she felt she was "destined" for something big and had to keep herself "tidy". Many thought she was possibly earmarked for a romance with Andrew hence how she got the nickname "Duch" as a young girl.

One thing that did stand out is that during Diana's single days in London, a lot of the odd jobs that she did have were looking after people by either being a nanny type or a kindergarten teacher's assistant or actually cleaning other people's homes. Caretaking was something that Diana did well and seemed to actually enjoy doing it.
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  #314  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:09 PM
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I’ve read those things too Osipi. In a picture when she was holding one of her charges from the school very early on, never could I have imagined her fate.
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  #315  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I recently watched this year's documentary featuring some of the tapes she recorded for Andrew Morton. I don't think that everything she said to Morton was absolutely true; however, she did say that she didn't have boyfriends (presumably she meant "intimate boyfriends/lovers")because she thought that she was "too messed up" or something similar. It's a though Diana was aware as a teen that she had some kind of emotional problems. At least, that's what I took from it.
She did have boyfriends, I agree that she didn't seem to have anyone special, but she did date and had a little bunch of girlfriends. And in contrast with what people have said abouot her in her later life, even good friends from her later married years DID say she was very very needy then in the later 80s and 1990s
that was the time of the Long phone calls, a lot of being demanding and she was clingy iwht her lovers then.
But no one has said that of the teenaged Diana when she lived in her flat in Chelsea.
I don't say that she didn't have some problems as a young girl. I think that some of her "not getting too close to men" as a girl was due to a fear of men, marriage, too much intimacy, making a mistake as her mother had done. But I think that when she DID make a marriage that was not good, and felt that she'd tried to find a close relationship and it hadn't worked out, that's when she got very neurotic and clingy with her friends and then later with lovers.
I don't think its fair to blame her for her behaviour as a child, being difficult with nannies, etc. She was a child who had had her world torn up by divorce and the disappearance of her mother, and I think most kds would have acted up in that situation.
She did try to "take care" of her father, following him around and offering to make cups of tea for him... IMO that's absolutely understandable that she had lost one parent and was clinging to the one she had left.. and none of the family liked Raine, when he married her.
But Johny Spencer shut himself up and then ended up marryng a woman whom they all disliked, and creating more rifts in the family.
So she was rejected by her other parent as well as her young mind would see it.
I think that DID leave her with problems, but they might have faded away with adulthood if she had found a secure haven in marriage, or even just in her safe life in London, with her friends and her work with kids.. but she didn't. She married a man who wasn't close to her, she had adoration from the public but not so much from her new family, and she had crazy press attention, but could no longer go to her nursery school and do her job, or sit at home and chat comfortably with her pals..
So I think that sparked off the bulimia, and the severe depression and difficult ways....
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  #316  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:29 AM
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Like many things associated with Diana there are different versions out there. While Diana has said that her bulimia was triggered by a comment made by Charles during their engagement, there are other versions that her eating disorder dates back to when she was in boarding school. I wanted to make sure that was not my imagination and went back to the first page of this thread and it is mentioned there. Also on a side note, Paul Burrell said that Diana had bulimia up "until the day she died". I do think that Diana's eating disorder intensified after her marriage, probably due to the one-two punch that her marriage did not meet her expectations and being in the public eye.

Another thing I am recalling is Diana referring to her younger self as fat.

Just because Diana was not clingy and possessive with her schoolmates and roommates, I don't think that is an indicator that she was not a possessive person. Charles was not the first man she was possessive of (and perhaps obsessed with), IMO her father was.
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  #317  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
Diana and Raine's relationship did not become amicable until the mid-1990s.

I am not holding Diana's behavior against her, at least not in this context, but I am responding to a comment that Diana being needy and possessive was "sparked" during her marriage.
I think that her childhood "neediness" was understandable.. and that given time and a stable upbringing, she might have grorwn out of it. I think she did to some extent, when she left home and worked in London. but the problems of her unhappy childhood were still with her... and she longed for a really close and loving marriage.. and she got a difficult one...
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  #318  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:34 AM
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Like many things associated with Diana there are different versions out there. While Diana has said that her bulimia was triggered by a comment made by Charles during their engagement, there are other versions that her eating disorder dates back to when she was in boarding school. I wanted to make sure that was not my imagination and went back to the first page of this thread and it is mentioned there. Also on a side note, Paul Burrell said that Diana had bulimia up "until the day she died". I do think that Diana's eating disorder intensified after her marriage, probably due to the one-two punch that her marriage did not meet her expectations and being in the public eye.

Another thing I am recalling is Diana referring to her younger self as fat.

Just because Diana was not clingy and possessive with her schoolmates and roommates, I don't think that is an indicator that she was not a possessive person. Charles was not the first man she was possessive of (and perhaps obsessed with), IMO her father was.
I think that her saying that about Charles was trying to blame Ch for her illness but bulimia is a complex problem, doctors don't know exactly what causes it and its harldy likely to be set off by one remark, even if it was a bit insensitive.
And I'd hardly say that she was "possessive" with her father. She clung to the one parent she had left. Her mother had gone, and she was only 6. Of course she was going to cling to him, and he seems to have shut himself away from his kids so she did not get much "loving and "mothering" from him.
She was difficult with nannies because she was longing for her OWN parents to be there for her and love her.. and she was sent to boarding school, where I think she got some stability, but still may have felt exiled from her home.
I am just putting this in about her referring to herself as fat. I think that in later years, even when she got over the bulimia, a bit, she still was obsessed with "being slim" and looking good, and had absorbed the media's idiotic "any woman who is not a skeleton is "fat" and problaby DID see the younger Diana, who had a chubby face, and maybe a few spare pounds at times, as "fat".
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  #319  
Old 12-14-2017, 06:37 AM
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I do not fault nor not understand Diana being greatly affected by her parents divorce. However Diana actions were extreme, it's one thing to be act out by being underfoot or making declarations of love, it's another thing to lock a nanny in a bathroom.

My understanding is that while Diana's father was granted custody that Diana and her siblings pretty much split their time between their parents until their mother moved away from London.

Diana was a troubled person, and while things intensified and got worse during her marriage, certain characteristics and maladies like being possessive of certain people, and eating and body image issues were in place before she became involved with Charles and his family.
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  #320  
Old 12-14-2017, 06:44 AM
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I do not fault nor not understand Diana being greatly affected by her parents divorce. However Diana actions were extreme, it's one thing to be act out by being underfoot or making declarations of love, it's another thing to lock a nanny in a bathroom.

My understanding is that while Diana's father was granted custody that Diana and her siblings pretty much split their time between their parents until their mother moved away from London.

Diana was a troubled person, and while things intensified and got worse during her marriage, certain characteristics and maladies like being possessive of certain people, and eating and body image issues were in place before she became involved with Charles and his family.
but acting out IS extreme. It varies from child to child.. and I think that Diana was a very emotionally extravagant person..
No, as far as I know her primary custody parent was her father, so she and the others lived with him and saw their mother at regular intervals, I suppose like most divorced parents... I think she would spend regular weekends with her mother in London, and she was also sent to Boarding school which meant that she was deprived of her father, who "shut himself up" a lot when she was home, anyway.
Her mother seems to have been very over emotional when tey met, and would cry when young Charlres and Diana were going home to their father.. and that upset them. So I think her parents made huge mistakes in dealing with their already unhappy kids...
Sarah S took to dirnking at school and was also anorexic.. Charles S has had his problems...
I don't know when Diana became bulimic, she did say that she ahd had episodes In her teens but no one else has said that, as far as I know. She was a bit pudgy faced as a teenager and I don't think she was vomiting her meals.
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