Diana's Royal Orders

[Iluvbertie]

The RVO is for 'personal service to the monarch' not for service to the country or the world at large.


Diana didn't provide an appropriate level of service to The Queen.


Yes - it was her job to make her husband happy. Had she been able to do that he wouldn't have looked elsewhere.


Yes - Diana was also entitled to happiness in her marriage to Charles.


That marriage had ended in 1984 effectively and by 1986 both were cheating, if not earlier on both counts.


That is the whole point to me - Diana failed to make Charles happy so he had to look elsewhere and that was known within the family so by the time The Queen might have been considering whether or not Diana had provided 'personal service to the monarch' it was clear that she hadn't met The Queen's standards.


There is a difference between serving the nation on an official basis - which Diana did - serving her chosen charities - which Diana did - and providing 'personal service to the monarch' which according to The Queen, Diana didn't do.


I am surmising that it is because the marriage was a failure by the time that she would have considered giving any further awards to Diana.


Diana herself identifies Harry's birth as when the marriage died - barely three years - and so the Queen withheld any acknowledgement of Diana providing 'personal service'.

[Queen Camilla]

Diana received the RFO the same year she married.

Sophie began working for the firm 'fulltime' in 2002 and received the RFO in 2004, in her 3rd year as a 'fulltime working royal'.

Camilla began working for the firm 'fulltime' in 2005 and received the RFO in 2007, in her 3rd year as a 'fulltime' working royal'.

Sophie received the GCVO in 2010 during her 9th year as a 'fulltime' royal.
Camilla received the GCVO in 2012 during her 8th year as a 'fulltime' royal.

Diana received her RFO much sooner than anyone else.

Diana did not receive the GCVO as 8 or 9 years into the marriage, the marriage was over but more importantly Diana was already 'bad mouthing' the royal family, including the Queen.

Jephson tells how when he went for a job interview with Diana she referred to her in-laws as 'The Germans'. IIRC, this was in 1988.

I am sure the Queen and Prince Philip didn't like being referred to as 'Germans' and the 'real' boss of the family, the Queen Mother was probably extremely angry.

Why would the Queen honor Diana with anything when Diana was disrespectful to her?

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

The RVO is for 'personal service to the monarch' not for service to the country or the world at large.


Diana didn't provide an appropriate level of service to The Queen.


Yes - it was her job to make her husband happy. Had she been able to do that he wouldn't have looked elsewhere.


Yes - Diana was also entitled to happiness in her marriage to Charles.


That marriage had ended in 1984 effectively and by 1986 both were cheating, if not earlier on both counts.


That is the whole point to me - Diana failed to make Charles happy so he had to look elsewhere and that was known within the family so by the time The Queen might have been considering whether or not Diana had provided 'personal service to the monarch' it was clear that she hadn't met The Queen's standards.


There is a difference between serving the nation on an official basis - which Diana did - serving her chosen charities - which Diana did - and providing 'personal service to the monarch' which according to The Queen, Diana didn't do.


I am surmising that it is because the marriage was a failure by the time that she would have considered giving any further awards to Diana.


Diana herself identifies Harry's birth as when the marriage died - barely three years - and so the Queen withheld any acknowledgement of Diana providing 'personal service'.

Thanks for these answers. I think it demonstrates very well why Diana did not receive any further orders for her own personal service to the monarch and for me, raises another question which I believe Dman has brought up also. For her service to Crown and country, wouldn't it have been possible for someone to nominate her to the Honors List? I'm not exactly sure how that works.

[Queen Camilla]

Diana really did not do much charity work.

It took her 12 years to become patron of approximately 100 charities and about a third of these charities she only accepted them to boost her popularity during the early 90s. She then dropped most of them.

Since 1982, there have been articles about Diana using charities to boost her popularity after she received bad press. (People magazine has a few.)
Bad press followed by picking up a new charity. It was her MO and People magazine called her on it in 1982.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Ish

[....] there were problems in the marriage by 1986 according to all counts (even earlier if rumours are to be believed), and the couple separated by 1992. [....]

Which means that only in the first 5-6 years there was no controverse -at least not public- in the Waleses' marriage. Now the claims are popping up that Captain Hewitt already engaged into a relationship with the Princess of Wales before her second marriage. That means that the timeline of "a Princess of Wales with a spotless banner" was ultra-short.

A second consideration: there were a lot of senior ladies alive back then:
- Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother
- The Princess Margaret
- Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone
- Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester
- Princess Alexandra, The Hon. Lady Ogilvy
- Lady May Abel Smith born Princess of Teck
- even the Duchess of Windsor was alive...

The "need" to decorate the new stock (Diana and Sarah) was not apparent as there were a handful of royal ladies with a lifetime of royal service and all bestowed lots of honours. Probably the Queen thought: "Diana and Sarah will get their Orders, not now, but in times to come".

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Queen Camilla

Diana really did not do much charity work.

It took her 12 years to become patron of approximately 100 charities and about a third of these charities she only accepted them to boost her popularity during the early 90s. She then dropped most of them.

Since 1982, there have been articles about Diana using charities to boost her popularity after she received bad press. (People magazine has a few.)
Bad press followed by picking up a new charity. It was her MO and People magazine called her on it in 1982.

Wasn't it also a stipulation that she perform these duties in order to live at KP during the separation? IIRC, I think I read that if she didn't keep up with her duties, she would have to pay the going rent to remain there.

[Queen Camilla]

Yes, that is what Jephson wrote in his book. Diana would have to continue to perform charity work or pay the going rate to live in KP.

[MARG]

Originally Posted by Queen Camilla

Diana really did not do much charity work.

It took her 12 years to become patron of approximately 100 charities and about a third of these charities she only accepted them to boost her popularity during the early 90s. She then dropped most of them.

Since 1982, there have been articles about Diana using charities to boost her popularity after she received bad press. (People magazine has a few.)
Bad press followed by picking up a new charity. It was her MO and People magazine called her on it in 1982.

Sad but true, the fact that such discussions were even raised is shocking in itself. Back then we keep getting told that Diana was an Angel, etc. and having met her I can sort of understand why. She was an incredible charismatic woman and, to this day, I have never seen a photo that quite captured just how stunningly attractive she was.

And pretty people are angels, as seen by some of the more forceful and fervent attempts to rewrite history after her death, and any negative views seen as heresy. It also means that people can sit at their computers with over 20 years of hindsight and castigate HM for not giving their "Angel" enough ribbons and bows. Making snide and nasty comments about HM's "honour" and "lack of appreciation". Now that is truely ugly.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Osipi

Wasn't it also a stipulation that she perform these duties in order to live at KP during the separation? IIRC, I think I read that if she didn't keep up with her duties, she would have to pay the going rent to remain there.

The royal appartments at Kensington Palace are grace-and-favour appartments, which means free-of-rent accomodation. These are stand-alone arrangements and are not at all connected to any work or duty. The Royal Household operates a grace-and-favour scheme for dozens of people, royals included. Amongst these also courtiers whom enjoy retirement. A short while ago the newspaper The Independent got a peek in these arrangements (Freedom of Information Inquest) and saw documents involving arrangements for the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, the Duke and Duchess of Kent, Princess Alexandra and six members of the Royal Household having free accomodation at Kensington Palace or St James' Palace. The arrangement was about the accomodation, in no any arrangement which was seen by The Independent a link was made to the performing of (public) duties.

[Dman]

No matter how many times people try to play down Diana's royal life as the Princess of Wales, she did her duties and served the Queen in a very personal way. She flew the flag for Queen and Country for fifteen years and I just think she should have been bestowed an honor from The Queen. She should have at least one royal Order, other than the RFO, under her belt.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Dman

No matter how many times people try to play down Diana's royal life as the Princess of Wales, she did her duties and served the Queen in a very personal way. She flew the flag for Queen and Country for fifteen years and I just think she should have been bestowed an honor from The Queen. She should have at least one royal Order, other than the RFO, under her belt.

According various sources the marriage was under heavy strain in 1986 already, a few years later the marriage completely felt apart. On December 1992 the Prince and Princess of Wales separated "amicably".

Apart from all gosspis around Captain Hewitt already popping up in 1983, for the Queen, chef de la famille, it was clear by the mid/late eighties that there were serious problems between the Prince and Princess of Wales. The first dirty linen were hanged out of the palace windows, an absolute no-no for the Queen. Formidable royal ladies like the Queen Mother, the Princess Margaret or the Princess Anne were also around: their relationship with the Princess of Wales looked cold and distant to me, which can also be said about the Duke of Edinburgh.

So all by all we may assume that Her Majesty thought: "We Are Not Amused" and was not at all in the mood to issue formal public tokens of appreciation towards her daughter-in-law. The equally problematic adventures of the other daughter-in-law (Sarah) will not have encouraged Her Majesty either to change her opinions. All must be seen in the framework of that time, with the War of the Waleses raging and a toe-sucking accountant starting the media siege of the Yorks.

[GömdNatt]

Originally Posted by Dman

No matter how many times people try to play down Diana's royal life as the Princess of Wales, she did her duties and served the Queen in a very personal way. She flew the flag for Queen and Country for fifteen years and I just think she should have been bestowed an honor from The Queen. She should have at least one royal Order, other than the RFO, under her belt.

and no matter how many times you try to lift Diana to some ridiculous standard, it's not what the facts show. We get it, you love Diana and think she was fantastic and that the Queen was mean. But some of us see things a bit more clearly and although we can admit that Diana did some wonderful things in her time, she failed the monarch. End of it.

Your argument is tired and old. Your personal opinion of Diana clearly doesn't match with what the Queen saw. The Queen didn't see "the right stuff" in Diana. Her work with charities meant little when she was trashing the monarchy left and right. She and Charles were both being stupid in public and I'm sure if Charles had yet to receive certain honors from the Queen at that point, that she would have withheld them from him for a while longer for his own failings. As it was, he already had the orders.

I just think if you're not going to add anything new to the conversation, there's no reason to keep repeating the same thing over and over.

[Mermaid1962]

It's up to the moderators to decide which comments can and cannot appear on this board. I don't agree with Dman on everything, but I can respect him for sticking around in an atmosphere that's sometimes hostile toward him.

[JessRulz]

Several posts which only discussed the C&D Marriage have been moved to the http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...iana-2444.html thread. Please keep this thread to a discussion of Diana's orders - not her marriage, her affairs, etc.

Also, let's try and avoid repetitive discussions where nothing happens but posters going around in a circle.

[GömdNatt]

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962

It's up to the moderators to decide which comments can and cannot appear on this board. I don't agree with Dman on everything, but I can respect him for sticking around in an atmosphere that's sometimes hostile toward him.

I'm sorry, but if they're not going to add anything new, but repeat the same thing over and over, it's annoying and tired. I didn't say anything about his comments being deleted or anything, so don't put words in my mouth. I'm just tired of seeing them repeat the same thing without adding anything new.

I don't think anyone's being hostile, but I do think some of us are a bit frustrated. The conversation has stagnated, really.

[Dman]

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962

It's up to the moderators to decide which comments can and cannot appear on this board. I don't agree with Dman on everything, but I can respect him for sticking around in an atmosphere that's sometimes hostile toward him.

Thanks, Mermaid1962. I may be alone in this, but I just feel someone have to stick up for the late Princess, who's voice is silenced, memory and legacy is being tarnished in some ways.

[royal rob]

Originally Posted by Dman

Thanks, Mermaid1962. I may be alone in this, but I just feel someone have to stick up for the late Princess, who's voice is silenced, memory and legacy is being tarnished in some ways.

Thank you for doing so


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[Duc_et_Pair]

HRH The Prince of Wales - Knight Grand Cross in the Order of Orange-Nassau
HRH The Princess of Wales - Grand Cross in the Crown Order (House of Orange Order)
HRH The Princess Margaret - Dame Grand Cross in the Order of the Netherlands Lion

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...5cd77598f1.jpg

[Duc_et_Pair]

After the untimely death of Diana, Princess of Wales "the family" (not clear if it were the Mountbatten-Windsors or the Spencers) returned her only foreign royal order, Dame Grand Cross in the Order of the House Orange (Crown Order).

Because of the history behind this, the Chancellery of the Netherlands Orders kept the cassette and the original decorations apart. Inside the cassette a card, in Diana's own handwriting, complete with the Prince of Wales' Feathers: "The Dutch Order". See picture.

Diana's cassette unpacked: see picture.

The Princess of Wales wearing her Order for the State Banquet in honour of Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands: see picture.

[MichelleQ2]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The Princess of Wales wearing her Order for the State Banquet in honour of Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands: see picture.

There is a funny story about the night of this dinner. Diana was to wear another dress... IIRC i think Pink... and then the order was sent over to her that afternoon and she didn't know it was ORANGE... so she scrambled to borrow a white dress at the last minute for the dinner. I always loved that dress so ethereal - but she never wore it again.