Diana and Sophie, Countess of Wessex


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I thought that the suit S wore for her first appearance as E's fiancé looked like the blue suit that Di wore for her engagement, which was rather "mumsy" and Di didn't like how she looked in it. Di had abandoned that look by the 90s and was wearing sleeker smarter clothes. I thought that Sophie still wore the rather fussy styles that Di had worn in her first few years as a royal.
I don't think that they hated each other, but I doubt if they liked each other either. I feel that Diana problaby DID feel miffed that Sophie seemed to click with the RF better than she had. She said much the same about Fergie who was her friend, that she couldn't understand how Ferg had so much energy and was bouncing around at Bamoral being horsey and again getting on with the RF better than she'd done.
 
The suit Sophie wore for the Engagement appearance was charcoal grey.

The Engagement happened in 1999- Diana died in 1997 so she definately wouldn't have commented on it.

They are two very different women from two very different backgrounds and I think Sophie has done a wonderful job.
 
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Good point Nichola. Diana might have seen Sophie at private family events ie: Lady Sarah's wedding, but any official engagements as Edward's fiance or wife would have taken place after Diana's death.
 
Sophie was supposed to have said, during her conversation with the faux sheikh, that 'the public have put me on the plinth vacated by Diana'.


I think Paul Burrell was the source for the story about the nasty exchange between Diana and Sophie in front of the other royals including Princess Margaret, to which they all took offence.

It was something about Sophie's skirt coming from Marks and Spencer's and money being tight, Diana supposed, since Sophie's father's retirement. I don't believe Diana would have said anything of that sort to Sophie, especially in front of the Queen, of whom she was always a little frightened. However, I wouldn't have been surprised if Diana had made a couple of remarks about Sophie's clothing and style to Burrell, which he later embroidered into a full blown drama.
 
We've now come full circle back to the story that originally started this thread back in 2007.

By the time this story supposedly happened, Charles and Diana were separated and living totally different lives. The entire picture painted by the story just seems odd to me. Diana sitting nestled in the bosom of the royal womenfolk talking to Sophie just doesn't ring true for me. As time progressed, Diana wanted less and less to do with Charles and his family and probably would have felt very uncomfortable spending time with them.

Looking at the Diana years, a lot comes from the media, "tell all" books by Morton and Burrell and frankly, a lot of manipulation by Diana of the press herself to "strike back" and "get her story out there" and what the public wanted and got and ate up like a box of chocolates was just as much of a fairy tale as the media made the royal wedding of 1981 out to be. The plot just changed to include the evil stepmother and stepsisters among the cast of evil nemeses. It all made for a glorious soap opera that millions followed but one thing we have to remember is that the prime focus was the persona of Diana with everyone else being bit players that made her life miserable, done her wrong and persecuted her.

I do admire Diana for a lot of things that she did publicly although I believe in her private life, she brought a lot of the ills upon herself in the long run. I also think that just looking at the media stories and publications and interviews during that time is tunnel vision when looking at other members of the royal family that Diana really couldn't find her niche in and fit in as a member of the family. This became obvious to me when the "most famous" thing Sophie is known for is her interview with the fake shiekh. That is looking at a person that has definitely fit in well with the BRF, and is loved and respected from a "Diana years" point of view and is very narrow.

In order to really compare the likes and differences between people in the public eye, its important to have a grasp on all the personages in the picture rather than the focus on just one person.

Just my opinion.
 
The suit Sophie wore for the Engagement appearance was charcoal grey.

The Engagement happened in 1999- Diana died in 1997 so she definately wouldn't have commented on it.

They are two very different women from two very different backgrounds and I think Sophie has done a wonderful job.
True but I meant that Diana may have felt that Sophie was dressing a bit like her, cutting her hair to look like her and perhaps trying to "take her place" now that she was moving out of the RF.
I don't think Sophie has done any particularly wonderful job. She fits in better with the RF, but that's just the luck of the draw, and she has to do the royal duties because she has failed at her business and caused a lot of embarrassment to them because of the Fake Sheik thing. Perhaps she knows she has to get on with them, because she needs them. Diana perhaps arrogantly felt that she didn't need them, after a while. Or perhaps it wasn't arrogance but a well founded belief that she was very popular because of her own personality and star quality.
Ad I imagine that Diana and Soph met at times. Even when she was separated from C Diana was still invited to things and tried to keep up a polite front with her in laws, at least some of the time. I don't know if she did stare at Sophie, or make remarks about her clothes.. Its in Andrew Mortons' second book so I don't know how accurate that is, since he wasn't being briefed by Diana by then..
 
True but I meant that Diana may have felt that Sophie was dressing a bit like her, cutting her hair to look like her and perhaps trying to "take her place" now that she was moving out of the RF.
I don't think Sophie has done any particularly wonderful job. She fits in better with the RF, but that's just the luck of the draw, and she has to do the royal duties because she has failed at her business and caused a lot of embarrassment to them because of the Fake Sheik thing. Perhaps she knows she has to get on with them, because she needs them. Diana perhaps arrogantly felt that she didn't need them, after a while. Or perhaps it wasn't arrogance but a well founded belief that she was very popular because of her own personality and star quality.
Ad I imagine that Diana and Soph met at times. Even when she was separated from C Diana was still invited to things and tried to keep up a polite front with her in laws, at least some of the time. I don't know if she did stare at Sophie, or make remarks about her clothes.. Its in Andrew Mortons' second book so I don't know how accurate that is, since he wasn't being briefed by Diana by then..

Just to clarify things, when this fake shiekh business happened, HM, The Queen was very much behind Sophie and supportive throughout the entire thing. Its been stated that the Queen's reaction according to Buckingham Palace was:

"In a separate statement from Buckingham Palace, the Queen lashed out at the "entrapment, subterfuge, innuendo and untruths to which the Earl and Countess have been subject in recent days."

The Queen said she has supported the desire of both Sophie and Edward to continue pursuing their working careers, but noted in so doing, they're "always open to accusations of pursuing their royal status in pursuit of their own business interests."

Sophie's choice words fuel Royal row - The Globe and Mail

(be mindful that also the Globe and News of the World are not what is a good representation of responsible journalism)

To me, that sounds more like a mama bear circling those that would hurt her family rather than someone that would lay down the law and enforce royal duties on both Edward and Sophie. So, the insinuation that the Queen, all embarrassed to the hilt by her son and daughter-in-law forces them to "toe the line" just doesn't ring true for me. To this day, Sophie and HM are well known to be quite close, share similar interests and with Bagshot Park close to Windsor Castle, spend private times together. Both Edward and Sophie have represented HM over the years enthusiastically and particularly in work pertaining to the Duke of Edinburgh Awards Scheme which will be Edward's in the future. They are the go to couple for representing the BRF at occasions overseas such as weddings and funerals and out of all of the BRF, probably have the closest relationships with their European counterparts.

The notion that how Sophie fits within the BRF is the luck of the draw is by far, IMO, a very untrue and derogatory statement.
 
I think that discussing Sophie's role today and and Diana is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Sophie is nowhere near to the person she was when Diana was alive. The decades have changed the public as well.

I'm a bit off topic, but one thing I have always admired Sophie and Edward for is their ability to learn from their own and others' gaffes. They are rather spectacular today because they learned from experience.
 
True but I meant that Diana may have felt that Sophie was dressing a bit like her, cutting her hair to look like her and perhaps trying to "take her place" now that she was moving out of the RF.
I don't think Sophie has done any particularly wonderful job. She fits in better with the RF, but that's just the luck of the draw, and she has to do the royal duties because she has failed at her business and caused a lot of embarrassment to them because of the Fake Sheik thing. Perhaps she knows she has to get on with them, because she needs them. Diana perhaps arrogantly felt that she didn't need them, after a while. Or perhaps it wasn't arrogance but a well founded belief that she was very popular because of her own personality and star quality.
Ad I imagine that Diana and Soph met at times. Even when she was separated from C Diana was still invited to things and tried to keep up a polite front with her in laws, at least some of the time. I don't know if she did stare at Sophie, or make remarks about her clothes.. Its in Andrew Mortons' second book so I don't know how accurate that is, since he wasn't being briefed by Diana by then..

I agree with you that Diana and Sophie had similar haircuts BUT it wasn't a unique haircut- it was a popular 1990s haircut.

I agree with you that Sophie was in the process of taking Diana's place- with Charles and Andrew divorced she was the Queen's only daughter in law for a number of years; and the second highest ranking lady in the royal family following the deaths of the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret until Charles married Camilla.

I regard Sophie as a good wife and mother, fulfils her duties to a high standard and is a popular member of the royal family and I don't see that as just being luck of the draw- she's earned her place.

Although Edward and Sophie's business interests weren't a roaring success (and the fake sheik thing a sorry episode) at least they tried to have independent ventures... which can't be said for other members of the family.

It sounds like you're a Diana fan. I am a Diana fan too. However, I get the impression your view is very black and white and you have based your judgement of both women on tabloid fodder when we will never know the truth about their meetings. I regard them as two different women who were a member of the royal family in different decades and they have both contributed in their own way- I don't think it's cool to knock one woman down to build another woman up.
 
It has nothing to do with "knocking another woman to build one up". Diana was massively much more popular than Sophie. that's a fact. If S thought that she was being seen as the new Diana she was sadly mistaken. And IMO she and Edward are a pair, their business ventures have been a shambles and the Fake Sheik interview a really low low spot. I would not like Sophie or Edward becuase of who they are, regardless of whether Di had existed or not..
I cant' see waht is "tabloid fodder" about the fact that Ed and S seem to have insisted on going on with their business ventures when it was obvious that tehy were not successful and that PR is not a very good field for a royal. I have read in a bio of the queen that the Court felt she was too indulgent with them in allowing them to keep on their businesses which made losses and debts, which infuriated Charles -when Ed's film company followed William around at his university, when the Press had agreed to leave him alone...
I believe that the Sheik interivew was the end, and even the queen realised then that she had to stop them going on with business and put them on royal duties. So IMO if Sophie gets on better with the queen than Di did, it is just luck or else she's working very hard at it. It is luck IMO if she shares the queen's interests or has a personality that the queen finds easy to get on with.. Just as it was luck that Sarah at first amused the queen and shared her horsey interests.. whereas Diana didnt.
 
It has nothing to do with "knocking another woman to build one up". Diana was massively much more popular than Sophie. that's a fact. If S thought that she was being seen as the new Diana she was sadly mistaken.

Diana was massively popular for a short period of time and a lot of that was the interest in her marriage going down the tubes. Sophie, by the time she joined the royal family, would have been a fool to even think about emulating Diana. It would definitely be "what not to do as a princess" by looking at Diana's years of being The Princess of Wales.
 
My apologies if I've picked you up incorrectly.
I suppose we read books and newspapers and pick things up differently.
I agree with Diana being much more popular... she could have been our next Queen after all and the media and public loved her.
Regarding PR not being a very good field, Sophie married Edward in her mid 30s and had a career before meeting him... and was allowed to carry on that career with the permission of the Queen after her marriage. She was accused of exploiting her position after that but I also feel she was in a vulnerable position too- it would never have worked in the long run.
 
Exacltly PR is really NOT a business that a royal should engage in. I think the queen should have put her feet firmly down, as soon as Soph married and said "No PR firm." And Sophie should have known it herself. Look at the whole fuss about Sarah writing books for money earlier.
And relaly there's no way that Sophie could replace Diana or have 1/10 of her popularity.

Diana was massively popular for a short period of time and a lot of that was the interest in her marriage going down the tubes. Sophie, by the time she joined the royal family, would have been a fool to even think about emulating Diana. It would definitely be "what not to do as a princess" by looking at Diana's years of being The Princess of Wales.

that is realy not the case. Diana's massive popularity stated from her engagement and all through the 80s she was very popular because she was attractive, charming well dressed and came across as warm and frendly and lively. She had years of unimaginable popularity based on herself, nothing to do with the end of her marriage. I would not call some 10 years a short time, Sophie should have been so lucky as to be as popular as Di for 1 year, let alone 10.
 
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Imho the BRF learned a lot from the Diana years, both good and bad. I don't think there will be a royal spouse whose popularity overshadowes "the firm" that much again...
Imo Sophie was and is very right for the spot she holds in the firm. And even Catherine, who potentially could have the position to outshine (imo) is much more a part of the royal collective than Diana was
 
I agree that the RF clearly never want a really dazzling charismatic wife marrying into the family who might overshadow her husband... but IMO while they dont have Diana's bad qualities or follies, niether Sophie nor Kate have much of her good qualities. Kate will never overshadow William, she isn't realy into doing the royal work and while she's pretty and pleasant enough, she does not try hard enough, IMO. She just does about enough to pass muster, so does Sophie and in addition, she and Ed have gotten into messes that were bad enough in their way.
And i think that both of them try hard to fit in wit the RF and get on with them, whereas Diana after a while didn't try very hard...
 
And relaly there's no way that Sophie could replace Diana or have 1/10 of her popularity


Doubt she wanted to replace Diana, and she doesn't need 1/10th of her popularity.
She's in a completely different position.
 
Personally, I think that both Kate and Sophie, in their public role, show exceptional abilities to work with the RF and their husbands as team effort and neither is out for fame, glory and popularity for themselves.

Diana was very much in it for herself. Many, many examples have been given on how she'd pour over every inch of publicity written about her and get angry over negative press and not so flattering pictures. She fed on public opinion constantly whereas the other royal females don't.
 
Well, each young woman who has married into the Firm has been compared to Diana. Sarah was compared to Diana the minute she and Andrew were reported to be seeing one another. Sarah looked nothing like Diana, but everything she wore, what she did, her royal duties were compared to Diana. Sophie came along and since she had blond hair that was somewhat similar, she was immediately a "rival" to Diana.
I remember just finding out about Edward and Sophie by a headline screaming that Sophie was scheming to take over Diana's "place in popularity". Really? I'm sure that Edward started to take an interest in Sophie and they began a serious relationship so she could overtake his ex-sister-in-law as being more famous and popular. I think that after just celebrating their 17 year anniversary, that wasn't the case.
The point being, the press suggested and pushed a rivalry because it sells papers and magazines. I liked Diana a lot and I admit over the years I've grown to accept that she wasn't always perfect and she had her bad points too. Could she have been jealous of Sophie? Perhaps. She had the same feelings and insecurities we all do. Diana was divorced and not a real part of the Royals at that time and to have the press make a fuss over Edward's new girlfriend had to sting a bit.
Diana did a wonderful job as Princess of Wales, Sophie has done an equally fine job. Yes, she did have slip ups when she was younger with the fake shiekh and her PR firm, she learned from it and followed the advice to take on Royal duties, it was probably a huge loss of face as it would be for any of us who have made some dumb mistakes, but she did and had made a success for herself and the Royal Family.
 
Oh I'm sure Diana was a bit jealous of Sophie. Here was this girl who seemed to be able to get on with the RF much better than she had, who appeared at the pont where SHE was leaving the RF... but I think that at her best Di was a great Princess and at best Sophie is average. And Diana's mistakes, while I deprecate tehm, were IMO the outcome of desperate unhappiness and her being a bit mentally fragile, rather than a simple "wanting to make money" which was what seems to have caused Sophie's mistakes...
 
Oh I'm sure Diana was a bit jealous of Sophie. Here was this girl who seemed to be able to get on with the RF much better than she had, who appeared at the pont where SHE was leaving the RF... but I think that at her best Di was a great Princess and at best Sophie is average. And Diana's mistakes, while I deprecate tehm, were IMO the outcome of desperate unhappiness and her being a bit mentally fragile, rather than a simple "wanting to make money" which was what seems to have caused Sophie's mistakes...

Diana was jealous of a lot of people by the looks of it. She was jealous of Sarah as she got on well with the Queen and jealous of Sophie for meeting a guy and getting on well with his family too. Shock horror - a girlfriend who makes a big effort to get on with her boyfriend's family.

I think this is where her underlying "jealousy" to Sophie and other women lay. She was afraid Sophie would become the "people's princess" and Diana would lose her position with the public. This was unlikely to happen as Edward was and still is quite unknown. Sophie was never going to gain the levels of popularity or fame that Diana had as future Queen. I always felt she came across as quite manipulative of the press and the public and they all fell for it.

It's sad that this woman who was probably underneath it all a lovely person, was so wrapped up in royal life and her position that she failed to see the bigger picture.
 
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How on earth could we know how she felt about anyone if she was jealous or not. Truly so much crap!


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
 
How on earth could we know how she felt about anyone if she was jealous or not. Truly so much crap!


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

My jealousy comment was sarcastic - she was supposedly jealous of lots of women for many reasons. I said it in relation to Sophie and Sarah apparently getting on better with their mother in law than Diana.
 
I wasn't really replying to you the thing is so many people do think they know. It's something they read or someone said or she looked like she was etc etc. We don't know anything it's all 2nd or 3rd hand unless we were there and I think that cuts out nearly everyone unless we have some royals on here in disguise mmm let me guess ! Best I don't I might inflate egos ?


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Agree, would be better if comments were by default prefixed with "imo" and only very specific posts in some newsthreads as "fact"
This is not unique to this thread though and happens in practically all threads on these forums (well maybe with the exception of the "One Word" thread :lol:)
 
Doubt she wanted to replace Diana, and she doesn't need 1/10th of her popularity.
She's in a completely different position.
I think that she does need popularity, all royals do. and she has a certain amount, but it is nothing like that big wild popularity that Di had. and it is possible that she had hopes of being well loved and popular with the public as she was young reasonable looking and coming into the RF as a youngish wife when Diana had died and sarah had been removed... There was a gap fror several years, for a lively attractive lovable female figure, until Will and HArry got to the age of having girlfriends and wives..
 
I think that she does need popularity, all royals do. and she has a certain amount, but it is nothing like that big wild popularity that Di had. and it is possible that she had hopes of being well loved and popular with the public as she was young reasonable looking and coming into the RF as a youngish wife when Diana had died and sarah had been removed... There was a gap fror several years, for a lively attractive lovable female figure, until Will and HArry got to the age of having girlfriends and wives..

I disagree wholeheartedly that Sophie in any way wanted or needed to court public publicity and popularity for herself. She was used to being in the public eye before meeting Edward and would have probably realized just how fleeting public popularity is. Diana courted public recognition, fed on it and, IMO, it was the measure of her worth in many ways to her. Sophie's priorities didn't include that. Her priorities were her husband, her family and what she could do for the Firm.
 
Ha? Everyone In the RF needs popularity. What is goig to happen o them, if no one cares or comes to see their engagemetns and the press doesn't take much notice of them. I dioubt if S was that bothered about "the firm".. IMO what she wanted was for her OWN firm to do well
 
:previous: Ouch! That's pretty mean. I would venture to say that every single businessman or woman wants and needs their business to succeed and originally the Wessexes were the trial for a royal prince to be a businessman. However, unlike the Netherlands, the UK wasn't ready for a "private" princely family and tabloid accusations of trading on the royal family were loud and ugly.

After making many adjustments to their businesses they basically adjusted themselves out of business. After that they settled to raise a family and be on hand for the 'Firm'. Noone can fault Sophie for her commitment to the 'Firm'.
 
Yeah but as Osipi said, Diana fed of pubic popularity you could just see it in her. Sophie is the exact opposite, she's not the kind of person who needs recognition from others to feel good about what she's doing.
 
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