Diana and Sarah's Relationship

[Skydragon]

....... However, if she expected to be fussed over continually that would be unreasonable. After all, if that was something the royal family did, then they'd have very little time left for anything after praising Anne, Philip, et al.

I think that was a major factor in the breakdown of her marriage. She couldn't understand why Charles couldn't change the arrangements made months ago, at the drop of a hat, to spend more time with her. That she hadn't just joined a family, but their business as well and she was expected to pull her weight, without constant praise.

 

[Skydragon]

I agree with the first part of your post although I don't think someone can live without offering unconditional love. What about her sons ? Do you think she didn't offer them her unconditional love ? And Charles ? He had her whole love.

On that we will have to agree to disagree. I have met many people who are unable to offer 'unconditional' love, even to their children, especially in a divorce situation. Diana even kicked up over W & H friendship with Tiggy. As for Charles, I have always believed that Diana was in love with The Prince of Wales, not Charles the man and I didn't see anything to change my opinion within their short marriage.

 

[sirhon11234]

Well if she was in love with the Prince of Wales and not Charles don't you think she would still be married to him. If Diana wanted to be queen she would've turned a blind eye towards Charles' affair with Camilla. She wouldn't have helped Andrew Morton write that book on her or did the Panorama Interview.
Charles was loved by two women Camilla and Diana.

 

[Skydragon]

Well if she was in love with the Prince of Wales and not Charles don't you think she would still be married to him.....edited by Skydragon... She wouldn't have helped Andrew Morton write that book on her or did the Panorama Interview.

The fantasy faded when she realised that along with the title, came a real live man who was unable to cope with her histrionics. She was used to getting her own way with her father and all her nannies and it clearly came as a shock to find it didn't work on every man or person.

I don't believe Diana was capable of an equal friendship with anyone, least of all Sarah, who was so easy to poke fun at.

 

[TheTruth]

The fantasy faded when she realised that along with the title, came a real live man who was unable to cope with her histrionics. She was used to getting her own way with her father and all her nannies and it clearly came as a shock to find it didn't work on every man or person.

I don't believe Diana was capable of an equal friendship with anyone, least of all Sarah, who was so easy to poke fun at.

But why would she have fought for him and did her "histrionics" if she didn't give a damn about Charles the man. Her "histrionics" were brought up with jealousy. If love wasn't there, I can't figure out why she would have done all this to hurt him ... IMO, it's clear she loved him. I agree that she was blinded by his position but still she loved him. And if she wasn't a good friend, how come her roommates didn't publish or critize her or her friendship ?

 

[sirhon11234]

The fantasy faded when she realised that along with the title, came a real live man who was unable to cope with her histrionics. She was used to getting her own way with her father and all her nannies and it clearly came as a shock to find it didn't work on every man or person.

I don't believe Diana was capable of an equal friendship with anyone, least of all Sarah, who was so easy to poke fun at.

Well she didn't marry a man instead she married a boy.

 

[Skydragon]

But why would she have fought for him and did her "histrionics" if she didn't give a damn about Charles the man. Her "histrionics" were brought up with jealousy. If love wasn't there, I can't figure out why she would have done all this to hurt him ... IMO, it's clear she loved him. I agree that she was blinded by his position but still she loved him. And if she wasn't a good friend, how come her roommates didn't publish or critize her or her friendship ?

The histrionics were to get attention, she wasn't 'in love' with her father but it worked on him. Her flat mates have a sense of honour, IMO.

 

[jcbcode99]

Charles was certainly a man when he married Diana, and not a boy! He had to grow up fast and was already involved with numerous charities and responsibilities for being the POW--he was also about 12-13 years older than Diana and had more life experience and was ready to settle down and have children--a boy would not have done so. Diana was a girl when she got married and her behavior shows she never really moved beyond where she was emotionally--the extreme behavior she displayed regularly, her vindictiveness, her shallowness, etc....I think that there were some serious problems in that marriage, but to refer to Charles as a boy is not one of them.
Also, I do think that Diana was in love with the PoW--she said in an interview that she had always felt destined for greatness, and come on, in the UK what is greater to a girl's imagination than marrying the PoW. I know some of us say that if that were the case she would have stayed married no matter what, but I think that Diana was so used to always getting her way in her youth that it spilled over, and she really believed that she had more power than she did; truly, she was LOVED by the UK and she believed she could do anything and get away with it with them, so why not with the Royal Family? I think she overestimated her power and when it was said and done she had not other options--that's when all the interviews and everything came out and she was on the other end of where she planned to be and had no choice but to leave. She didn't plan the whole thing well. I feel sorry for her for never growing beyond immaturity and a scheming nature.

 

[sirhon11234]

Oh, really the way he handeled his marriage to Diana wasn't too manly. As soon as it went down south he ran into Camilla's arms instead of trying his best to make that marriage work. Then look at the embarrassment he caused for Camilla in August. He knew that the obbsessed Diana fans didn't want her there but he kept on insisting that she should go. And she was even threatened by these people. His selfishness put her in a very bad position in which she tried to avoid.

 

[Elspeth]

I agree with the first part of your post although I don't think someone can live without offering unconditional love. What about her sons ? Do you think she didn't offer them her unconditional love ? And Charles ? He had her whole love.

It wasn't unconditional, though, from all accounts. It was the sort of "if you really loved me, you'd..." sort of love. Unconditional love doesn't make those sorts of demands. Having said that, I don't think unconditional love is a human trait in general.

As for her friendship with Sarah, it sounds as though it was always rather competitive on Diana's side. Bit like a friendship between a cat and a dog.

 

[jcbcode99]

We will never really know what happened with regard to Charles and Diana's marriage, but we do know how each behaved publically and I think that Diana's behavior (the dramatics, the hysterics, the suicide threats, her relationships, etc...) speak volumes--let's not forget that Charles still runs with the same circle of intimate friends he's had most of his adult life; he doesn't throw friendship to the wind in a whimsical way. Charles always behaved with decorum in public whereas Diana threw punches and manipulated the press by making them feel sorry for but also not holding her accountable for anything.
That being said, I do want to say something; I'm sure I sound pretty harsh in my regard to Diana on this subject and its not something I would apologize for because I think the truth speaks for itself. As a child I admired Diana because I felt she was exactly what a Princess should be--glamourous and beautiful. I still enjoy looking at photos of them when they were newly married--I think they look happy-- but as I've grown up, married, learned how to be part of another person's family, and had a child of my own I see the situation in a completely different, more adult-like and mature manner and simpley put, I think she was a selfish person.
Back to the Sarah and Diana relationship--I agree that Sarah brought a lot on herself but the way she managed to put herself back together gives me good reason to applaud her. I do wish Diana had been able to do that graciously, too.

 

[jcbcode99]

About the ceremony in August--I'm not so sure it was all Charles--and its unfair to blame it on him (that's the kind of thing tabloids report!!!! YIKES) I think the reason the whole affair turned crazy was because the boys invited Camilla, they wanted her there, she accepted and then the Diana fanatics made such a ruckous that it overshadowed the event and Camilla didn't want the ceremony to be overshadowed because the boys had worked so hard on it, so she opted against going. I think she was trying to do what they wanted and it backfired. And, there would have been nothing wrong with her going but it is a shame she did not; the people who made such a big deal out it need to move on; if Diana's children have moved on who are they to act affronted and upset?
We really need to get back on topic------
I think that Sarah was crazy to leave Andrew but I'm thrilled she showed how divorce should be done; I wish Charles and Diana would have been able to do that, too. Perhaps that is another reason why there was tension between Diana and Sarah?

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I doubt Sarah realised what kind of "friend" Diana was till she read these Squidgygate-transcripts and even then I'm not sure she was able to comprehend the position Diana saw herself in and what that meant for her relationship with Sarah.

I would be interested in a chronology of Diana's and Sarah's relationship:
when did Sarah appear for the first time in Diana's or the Royals set? And what happened then till she married Andrew?

 

[Charlotte1]

I doubt Sarah realised what kind of "friend" Diana was till she read these Squidgygate-transcripts and even then I'm not sure she was able to comprehend the position Diana saw herself in and what that meant for her relationship with Sarah.

I would be interested in a chronology of Diana's and Sarah's relationship:
when did Sarah appear for the first time in Diana's or the Royals set? And what happened then till she married Andrew?

Diana and Sarah knew each other from their teenage years, their mothers had been friends at school. Sarah was invited to Diana's wedding, she also ( as she wrote) invited to 'cast of thousands' balls at Windsor. Sarah attended both Andrew's and Edward's 21st birthdays. Media reports at the time of Diana's 21st listed Sarah Ferguson as the only non-family member to attend the celebration of Diana's 21st. After Diana married Charles, she and Sarah continued to meet up regularly for lunch.

As far as the Royals set, there is a picture of Andrew and Sarah as 10 year olds at the Polo. Sarah has spent her life around the Royals as her father was Charles's Polo manager and played with Prince Philip.

 

[Skydragon]

I doubt Sarah realised what kind of "friend" Diana was till she read these Squidgygate-transcripts and even then I'm not sure she was able to comprehend the position Diana saw herself in and what that meant for her relationship with Sarah.

It certainly shows Sarahs forgiving nature that she was still prepared to be friends with Diana after the tapes.

 

[Warren]

Since this thread is one of the few with substance in the Diana subforum, could we please keep the momentum going with discussion of Diana and Sarah's relationship and not get sidetracked into raking over the usual Charles & Diana stuff.

thanks,
Warren

 

[reen]

I don't know if Sarah and Diana could be friends again. I don't think so, at least not for several years. I'm sure they could be friendly, but Sarah's and Diana's activities would be worlds apart. Diana had a lot of restitution to make and I don't know if she ould be up for the effort with all she would have been dealing with. Diana had the press as a constant considertion, and I think it was only a matter of time before she had some sort of break down. I don't know how anyone can live with that kind of personal intrusion. It makes me shudder to think of it.
Sarah had her own issues to deal with and I don't think any kind of friendly relationship was possible between the two of them at the time of Diana's death, or for at least until they both reached their mid-forties.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I strongly believe Diana learned from Sarah how to behave after the divorce. The fact that Sarah managed to stay friendly with her ex-husband helped her not only with her children, but with her position in society as well. I had always wondered why so many people described that Charles and Diana had started their way into something of a friendship when Diana died. While I honestly believe Charles still tried to protect the woman he once married, the mother of his sons, Diana had other reasons for her change of heart towards Charles.

Alas, even Diana, princess of Wales would have faded into the background without a vivid connection to the RF. As her sons were still too young to take her with them back into the heart of the establishment, Charles could well do - maybe in exchange for a officially accepting relationship between Diana and Camilla.

But I'm convinced Diana would never have accepted Charles marrying Camilla and Camilla replacing her in any official position. She would ahve gone back to playing the media against Camilla. Just like I doubt Sarah would accept a new wife for Andrew, but she probably would use her daughter's influence on the queen and on their father. IMHO, of course.

 

[zhontella]

Much as I disliked Sarah for her lack of decorum, I believe she was always a true and honest friend to Diana. It must have been hurtful to read the contents of the call between Diana and Gilbey.
-----------------------------------------------------
There's two sides to most stories, and I remember reading that what started things going badly between Diana and Fergie was Fergie spending too much time alone with Charles and her excessive flirting with Charles when Andrew was gone.

It's fine to catalog all of Diana's faults, but to to so in a one-sided vacuum does not help to give a true picture.

 

[ysbel]

Much as I disliked Sarah for her lack of decorum, I believe she was always a true and honest friend to Diana. It must have been hurtful to read the contents of the call between Diana and Gilbey.
-----------------------------------------------------
There's two sides to most stories, and I remember reading that what started things going badly between Diana and Fergie was Fergie spending too much time alone with Charles and her excessive flirting with Charles when Andrew was gone.

It's fine to catalog all of Diana's faults, but to to so in a one-sided vacuum does not help to give a true picture.

I never heard that Sarah spent inordinate amount of time alone with Charles.

 

[Warren]

It's fine to catalog all of Diana's faults, but to to so in a one-sided vacuum does not help to give a true picture.

This thread is not a catalogue of Diana's faults. It is an opportunity to examine the dynamics of the relationship between Diana and Sarah.
It is only natural that specific episodes and the final falling out will therefore generate interest and comment.

 

[zhontella]

I never heard that Sarah spent inordinate amount of time alone with Charles.

I read that several years ago and could not even begin to remember where now, but it was in some newspaper, and it was clear that Diana resented it.

 

[Skydragon]

There's two sides to most stories, and I remember reading that what started things going badly between Diana and Fergie was Fergie spending too much time alone with Charles and her excessive flirting with Charles when Andrew was gone. .

Any idea where you got this from, as the only thing I remember was Charles' distance from girls of this age group, including Sarah and Diana's friends. Of course Sarah spent a lot of her time with other men while Andrew was away, but I don't recall Charles being one of them, due as I said to the age difference.

 

[zhontella]

Any idea where you got this from, as the only thing I remember was Charles' distance from girls of this age group, including Sarah and Diana's friends. Of course Sarah spent a lot of her time with other men while Andrew was away, but I don't recall Charles being one of them, due as I said to the age difference.

Charles might have been ready for a sympathetic ear from one of Diana's "friends", no matter what the age? Apparently she was going to Highgrove a lot..............but I don't remember where I saw that. Here's something I just found today that tends to suggest they did have some kind of friendship at one time:

>>British royal Prince Charles has refused to invite Sarah Ferguson, Duchess of York to his wedding to Camilla Parker Bowles - following their vicious row at a royal dinner in 1999.
The heir to the throne and Ferguson allegedly parted on bad terms following a mystery argument at the prince's Highgrove home.......<<


Prince Charles Refuses Wedding Invite to Sarah Ferguson - People

 

[TheTruth]

Charles might have been ready for a sympathetic ear from one of Diana's "friends", no matter what the age? Apparently she was going to Highgrove a lot..............but I don't remember where I saw that. Here's something I just found today that tends to suggest they did have some kind of friendship at one time:

>>British royal Prince Charles has refused to invite Sarah Ferguson, Duchess of York to his wedding to Camilla Parker Bowles - following their vicious row at a royal dinner in 1999.
The heir to the throne and Ferguson allegedly parted on bad terms following a mystery argument at the prince's Highgrove home.......<<


Prince Charles Refuses Wedding Invite to Sarah Ferguson - People

I believe Sarah is a warm person and makes friend easily so it's not surprising that they've been in a good relationship. Do you know more about this row in 1999?

 

[Skydragon]

Charles might have been ready for a sympathetic ear from one of Diana's "friends", no matter what the age? Apparently she was going to Highgrove a lot..............but I don't remember where I saw that. Here's something I just found today that tends to suggest they did have some kind of friendship at one time: SNIPPED
Prince Charles Refuses Wedding Invite to Sarah Ferguson - People

I think Charles had friends nearer his own age to talk to.

Just because Sarah may have been at a dinner, it doesn't mean they were particularly friends. I really can't stand one of my siblings spouses, but obviously I have no option but to include them if I want my sibling to come. I also see the article cannot substantiate it's claim and uses the standard get out - "The heir to the throne and Ferguson allegedly parted on bad terms following a mystery argument at the prince's Highgrove home, and the pair have made only one public appearance together in the past six years",

Why they would expect Charles to make any appearances with Sarah, puzzles me, especially as they don't mention that none of the other royals have made any appearances with her!
It is also worth noting that this paper is connected to the Mirror, a notoriously inaccurate red top.

 

[jcbcode99]

Why would Charles invite Sarah to his wedding? It makes no sense--she's his brother's ex-wife--regardless of how well she and Andrew get along--she's no longer a member of Charles' family. Just People trying to stir stuff up again.
I had never, ever heard that Charles and Sarah spent a lot time together--I find it almost laughable, actually. The only thing I ever heard was that they (Charles, Diana, Andrew, Sarah) were all skiing or something and Diana was in a mood or didn't feel well and was being grumpy and Charles asked why she couldn't be more like Fergie?--whether that really happened or not I don't know, but it is the closest I have heard of anything that comes close to Charles and Sarah being "close".

 

[TheTruth]

I heard that story too jcbcode99. By saying that, Charles only showed is admiration for Sarah's constant cheerfulness. I think it's like for Diana and Andrew : they talk and like each other but it doesn't mean they are the best friends in the world.

 

[silverstar]

Diana and Fergie

Maybe in Royal circles, the 1980s will be
looked back on as the " Diana and Fergie decade"?

go here
Celebheaven • View topic - The Terrible Twins


.

 

[gfg02]

An good article
Fergie & Di: Royal Daredevils

Fergie & Di: Royal Daredevils « Lisa's History Room