Charles and Diana

[Pranter]

Hewitt first made the suggestion after the Morton book - once Diana had dumped him. He, I suspect, didn't feel that it should all be on Charles when Diana started cheating in 1986 - the same year Charles returned to Camilla.

Don't forget there had been the rumours about Mannekee as early as 1983 so there were stories circling about Diana being unfaithful even earlier then that Charles was. 1992 confirmed that they were both adulterers and had been so for many years. What subsequently came out was that Diana was a serial adulterer over the years.

I meant Hewitt hinted that he was Harry's father (not about their affair)....seems like at one point he tried to play coy about it.


LaRae

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I highly doubt the BRF suddenly saw Diana’s affair as being inappropriate in 1992 - her affair with Hewitt began in 1985. It doesn’t take 7 years for the BRF to decide that’s inappropriate.

Diana’s inappropriate behaviour in 1992 was her involvement in the Morton book. The scandal that followed is what pushed the Queen to allow a separation.

I don't think Diana was worried about the BRF finding out about her affairs but her adoring public. That's why she sold the story that she only had an affair because of Charles's relationship with Camilla.

 

[MARG]

Meanwhile Harry was being bullied at school as a Royal Bastard courtesy of James Hewitt's "coy" innuendoes.

 

[Denville]

IIRC, the Charles/Camilla affair was well known to the public in general at that time.

No, it was suspected but certinaly not known, until the various phone conversations were made public. Even then it wasn't absolutely certain...

 

[MARG]

You are right, nobody knew anything really, until that and I have to wonder, were those secretly recorded phone calls, both Charles and Diana's, even legal or was everyone just so busy trying to get the dirt the recorders not only made a bomb for them but also got away with it?

 

[Osipi]

From what I understand, the tapes were acquired simply because of cell phone technology at the time. It was very possible for someone to "pick up" on a cell phone conversation without actively going out trying to "bug" the phones.

Some person picked up on that call and make a tape of it. He then probably realized he was sitting on a gold mine.

Of course, as technology got better, people devised methods on how to hack into phone calls but those are a horse of a different color.

 

[Denville]

yes as far as i know there was nothing illegal about it.. and the guy who sold the tape of Diana came on it by accident and sold it for a very low sum. Of course it was IMO morally wrong for him to do that, but it was equally foolish of Charles AND Diana to engage in these long phone conversations.. which were vulnerable to scanners.

 

[Curryong]

In one of the newer bios of Prince Charles it discusses the Tampon conversation between Charles and his mistress, and states that there is evidence from the dating of the ambulance strike mentioned in the conversation that the time was 1989 at a time when Charles was staying with the Duke of Westminster at the Duke's home, Eaton Hall.

It discusses that telephone lines on the Duke's property may have been tampered with, which is more serious than a simple ham coming across this call by accident. Would an ordinary Briton necessarily know that the POW was staying at Eaton Hall and then go and tap into telephone wires?

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Did Diana's grandmother Lady Ruth Fermoy warn Diana not to marry Prince Charles?

 

[Iluvbertie]

No - she wanted the marriage. She, along with Diana's father, later apologised to Charles for not telling him about Diana's issues.

 

[Pranter]

Did Diana's grandmother Lady Ruth Fermoy warn Diana not to marry Prince Charles?

I've read conflicting reports about that...some say she tried to warn Diana off telling her she didn't think she would suit or be able to deal with how the BRF were/live.

I've never really read much supporting the idea Ruth was fully behind the marriage.


LaRae

 

[COUNTESS]

Hewitt first made the suggestion after the Morton book - once Diana had dumped him. He, I suspect, didn't feel that it should all be on Charles when Diana started cheating in 1986 - the same year Charles returned to Camilla.

Don't forget there had been the rumours about Mannekee as early as 1983 so there were stories circling about Diana being unfaithful even earlier then that Charles was. 1992 confirmed that they were both adulterers and had been so for many years. What subsequently came out was that Diana was a serial adulterer over the years.

Yes, because her husband really loved another woman. And the idea that he ever gave her up seems naïve. Was it right, no. Was she foolish. Yes. He should never have married her, she should have run. He's very happy now. She is dead for many years. So, so sometimes there is no equity.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

No - she wanted the marriage. She, along with Diana's father, later apologised to Charles for not telling him about Diana's issues.

I've heard the story that her grandmother tried to apologize to Charles but remember this is a woman who would sell anyone out so she can stay friendly with Royalty or nobility. I also never heard that her father tried to apologize to Charles.... I always assumed he supported his daughter no matter what.

 

[Katrianna]

For many years there was the story that Lady Fermoy and QEQM worked to put Charles and Diana together with marriage in mind. One article in a magazine right after the wedding stated they were the "top conspirators" in bringing the "true love match" together. Mind you, this was the story after the engagement and marriage. Years later after the divorce and Diana's death, the story of Lady Fermoy and QEQM being the matchmakers was disputed, especially QEQM being actively involved. I always got the impression Lady Fermoy was thrilled with the prospect of her granddaughter becoming a Royal and it has never been written that Diana's father had any doubts or objection to her marrying Charles. I don't know about her mother Francis.

 

[Denville]

Ther is no evidence that the QM and Lady F "conspirted" to make the marriage.. it was all down to Diana and Charles. As for the stories that Lady F apologised for not telling them about Diana, I suppose it is possible, since I think she was very embarrassed by the fact that her granddaughter hadn't fit in with the RF.. but I have never heard anyting convincing aobut the idea that Lord Spencer would have done such a thing. He had his faults but he was loyal to his daughter..

 

[Queen Claude]

I am not sure how credible it is, but I recall that both Earl Spencer and Lady Fermoy apologized to the BRF about Diana. I haven't given it much thought, but when I do think about it, Diana's father died shortly before the Morton book came out, and while Diana had shown herself to be difficult and temperamental, it does seem odd (to me) that the Earl would make some kind of wholesale apology prior to his death. Now had he lived, and been compos mentis, I can see him apologizing post-Morton and Panorama.

I think between the Earl, Diana's mother Frances and her grandmother, her Father seemed the most thrilled with the match in the early years. My guess is that Diana's grandmother may have cautioned Diana when she and Charles were dating but got on board after the engagement. Her mother seemed to be the most cautious / skeptical.

My firm theory has been that the Spencers and Lady Fermoy desperately wanted a Spencer girl to marry the heir, but it was Sarah, not Diana who they pinned their hopes to.

 

[Denville]

I am not sure how credible it is, but I recall that both Earl Spencer and Lady Fermoy apologized to the BRF about Diana. I encers and Lady Fermoy desperately wanted a Spencer girl to marry the heir, but it was Sarah, not Diana who they pinned their hopes to.

what evidence do you have that Lord S and Lady Fermoy boht apologised to the RF?

 

[Queen Claude]

I said it is something I recall, meaning it is something I've read before. I don't remember the source which is also why I commented that I am not sure about the credibility of the claims. If I come across it, I will post it.

ETA:
Fermoy apology

Later on, in 1993, Diana’s grandmother, Lady Fermoy, apologized to the Queen and to Prince Charles for not warning them about Diana being a “dishonest and difficult girl.”
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celeb...nce-charles-princess-diana-new-book-marriage/

 

[Denville]

I know the story went around about Lady F, and maybe she did "apologise"... but I can't realy belieive that Di's father would not be loyal to his daughter.. thanks for your post....

 

[Queen Claude]

While not an apology to Charles and/or the BRF, I did come across this. By the way, Penny Junor is the source of both claims.

Even Diana’s father said shortly before he died in 1992 that he’d been wrong not to warn Charles.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/11-ju...unors-prince-william-the-man-who-will-be-king

 

[CyrilVladisla]

When Prince Charles first proposed to Lady Diana, was her mother Frances in England or in Australia?
When Prince Charles first proposed to Lady Diana, who was the first person that Diana told the exciting news to?

 

[Pranter]

I'm not sure where Frances was, Diana did go to her mother's for 2 weeks after Charles proposed before it was announced in order to give her time to think about it.

At some point Frances did come to the U.K. because IIRC she was there in London when Diana went to that first engagement in that famous black dress.



LaRae

 

[Denville]

While not an apology to Charles and/or the BRF, I did come across this. By the way, Penny Junor is the source of both claims.

Since Penny is inclined to favour Charles and Diana and to see Diana as crazy, difficult, pretty much a monster, she is likely to portray Diana as "someone that even her relatives were embarrassed by.."

 

[Queen Claude]

When Prince Charles first proposed to Lady Diana, was her mother Frances in England or in Australia?
When Prince Charles first proposed to Lady Diana, who was the first person that Diana told the exciting news to?

I assume she was in Australia.

Since Penny is inclined to favour Charles and Diana and to see Diana as crazy, difficult, pretty much a monster, she is likely to portray Diana as "someone that even her relatives were embarrassed by.."

Junor is a well known Charles sympathizer vis a vis Diana, but Junor writes that Diana's father and grandmother said these things, as opposed to her [Junor] making an assumption or speculating.

 

[Katrianna]

How true. When we read articles etc., by certain authors such as Penny Junor or Andrew Morton, they have to be taken with a large grain of salt due to the fact that one was a friend/supporter of Diana and the other of Charles. So their views writings will be skewed in favor of one or the other of the Wales. The same can be said of Richard Kay of the DM and his highly biased articles on Diana.
There never was any evidence that Lady Fermoy and QEQM conspired to match Charles and Diana and push them into marrying, that's true. I brought it up because the press "inferred" as such in gushing articles after the engagement and marriage. I guess I should have added where the idea came from I don't know, the imagination of some reporter perhaps. Maybe it sounded even more romantic, "your grandson and my granddaughter would be perfect for one another." It added to the myth.

 

[Curryong]

Frances was in Australia. According to Bedell Smith Diana went to her mother and stepfather's home there to think over wedding plans. She must have returned to Britain soon after her daughter though, as both of them shopped together for the blue suit and blouse Diana wore for the BP photo op and interview.

 

[Denville]

Yes she was living or spending a good deal fo time in Austraila then. however I'm sure she was ready to dash back to London to be with Diana during the engagement and for the wedding... Frances has always IMO been vry quick to lap up the notice from being Dianas mother but not to be there very much in any meaningful way to help her daughter.

 

[Denville]

How true. When we read articles etc., by certain authors such as Penny Junor or Andrew Morton, they have to be taken with a large grain of salt due to the fact that one was a friend/supporter of Diana and the other of Charles. So There never was any evidence that Lady Fermoy and QEQM conspired to match Charles and Diana and push them into marrying, that's true. I brought it up because the press "inferred" as such in gushing articles after the engagement and marriage. I guess I should have added where the idea came from I don't know, the imagination of some reporter perhaps. Maybe it sounded even more romantic, "your grandson and my granddaughter would be perfect for one another." It added to the myth.

I think that Junor, like Rich Kay and Morton, are pretty biased in favour of their chosen royals. Severely so
I tried reading Junor's recent bio of Camilla and although I like Camilla, I found it So gushingly pro Camilla that I had to give up reading it. I certainly would take what all 3 of them say with large pinches of salt.
I think the idea of the grandmother's making the match, or helping it along, were largely the imaginings of journalists.. it all sounds so deliciously archaic, 2 delightful old ladies, deciding that their lovely grandchildren would be good for each other and "charmingly conspiring" to get them together...and the 2 young people falling in love.

 

[Dman]

No matter what...when your house is not in order, everything else falls apart.

I wish Charles and Diana were given the time and space to get their household in order. Worry about duties later, but get your house in order.

None of that happened.

I’m glad their children appear to have learned from the past.

 

[Osipi]

The heck with the household. By the time they married, it was already too late. These were two people that didn't really even know each other before venturing onto a "till death do us part" path.

There were just too many expectations and proper boxes to be checked off that determined how right and proper and "suitable" the marriage would be and the two people actually involved in the marriage got lost along the way somewhere.