Charles and Diana

[Curryong]

All I can say is that wanting to be married or getting married at twenty wasn't the norm among people I knew back in the day in Britain. None of Diana's flatmates were married at that age, nor did any of Charles's girlfriends choose to marry early.

Diana's sisters didn't marry at twenty and my bet is, though I haven't done a survey, that if you looked at the average age of aristocratic brides of the late 1970's/early 1980s you wouldn't find too many who were engaged at 19 and married at 20. Nor do I believe that 20 was the average age of brides in that era. Diana married at that age because of her special circumstances, including, as you say, her great need for security.

Judging by the charts given below 23 was the average age for brides in Britain in 1978, and from then in there was a steady rise upwards.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/p...pic-britain/population/have-kids-settle-down/

 

[Denville]

As to why Diana was living in a shared flat in London at 17, I think you've hit on the magic word. Raine.

At .

Its just logic and putting two and two together that adds up to placing Diana starting her own life in London.

I know she didn't like Raine, but I can't see that dislike of Raine was the main thing that made her have the perfectly normael desire of a young girl of her age, t get out from the parental roof and have her own place. And of course she would live in London, where else would a young upper class girl go, unless she really loved country life and preferred to stay there . when I was her age, I was longing to get my own flat and live in a city...

All I can say is that wanting to be married or getting married at twenty wasn't the norm among people I knew back in the day in Britain. None of Diana's flatmates were married at that age, nor did any of Charles's girlfriends choose to marry early.

Diana's sisters didn't marry at twenty and my bet is, though I haven't done a Judging by the charts given below 23 was the average age for brides in Britain in 1978, and from then in there was a steady rise upwards.

Have kids, settle down - UK Parliament

no she married at 20 because she wanted an early marriage and because Charles needed an inexperienced girl with no past. So such a girl wasn't likey to be much older than 20.
but if 23 was the average age, then there must have been many who married in their teens

 

[Curryong]

Danae Brook the writer and broadcaster, who lived a floor below Diana at Coleherne Court, described the block of flats as being 'like a club' and 'the sort of place parents felt safe leaving their daughters'. Tina Brown in her biography of Diana writes of it as being a debby and Sloane Ranger sort of place, where young upperclass girls could be parked by their parents while they learned a few office skills like shorthand and typing in case they got a job.

Her three flatmates also appear to have been Sloanes, wearing 'Sloane uniform' like jumpers with tweed skirts and pie crust collar blouses, who went out to spaghetti restaurants and parties and to the country at weekends. It was a peaceful and happy environment for Diana,without stress and with jolly company.

 

[Osipi]

It was the perfect solution for Diana at the time. After being in boarding schools for quite a few years, sharing a flat with girlfriends was different yet similar. I don't see her wanting to live with Johnny and Raine or even with Peter and Frances. Living with parents was alien to her by that time. Parents were to visit.

 

[AristoCat]

Danae Brook the writer and broadcaster, who lived a floor below Diana at Coleherne Court, described the block of flats as being 'like a club' and 'the sort of place parents felt safe leaving their daughters'. Tina Brown in her biography of Diana writes of it as being a debby and Sloane Ranger sort of place, where young upperclass girls could be parked by their parents while they learned a few office skills like shorthand and typing in case they got a job.

Her three flatmates also appear to have been Sloanes, wearing 'Sloane uniform' like jumpers with tweed skirts and pie crust collar blouses, who went out to spaghetti restaurants and parties and to the country at weekends. It was a peaceful and happy environment for Diana,without stress and with jolly company.

I think she was at her happiest there; anyone would be and frankly I would have liked that kind of life.

 

[Pranter]

I don't know that Diana planned to be married at 20, however it's not like there was going to be a long courtship with Charles...I think she was very caught up in it all.


LaRae

 

[AristoCat]

Charles never should have messed around in his twenties. He wasted valuable time and he could have married someone he had something in common with and Diana would have found someone who could have handled her energy and it was a mess. Telling someone to sow their oats and then find a good wife is bad advice all around.

 

[Pranter]

I think we have his Uncle Dickie to thank for that viewpoint.


LaRae

 

[M. Payton]

Boy, that is for darn sure. That is like it is okay for men to sow those oats and then find a pure virgin who has no experience what so ever in dealing with life in general let alone a royal life that she would adapt to anything you wanted her to be. That did not work and still does not work in this world we live in today. If any pair was ever mismatched it was Diana and Charles. And the only thing that came out of that marriage was those 2 beautiful baby boys of theirs and how great they turned out today.

 

[AristoCat]

I often think that young men shouldn't be forced to marry young, but should be told that they have no business bringing a huge load of a past into a nice girl's life.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, except Charles was in the Navy in his twenties after university, and apparently was a bit young for his age and still quite diffident around women. He probably didn't feel ready for marriage in his early twenties and by his late twenties he was falling for Camilla again.

I know Charles was an old soul and liked the company of people much older than himself. However, I really don't feel that taking advice on women of a man like Dickie Mountbatten who was born in 1900, and himself hadn't had much experience before he married at a young age, was the very best course for Charles.

 

[Pranter]

Boy, that is for darn sure. That is like it is okay for men to sow those oats and then find a pure virgin who has no experience what so ever in dealing with life in general let alone a royal life that she would adapt to anything you wanted her to be. That did not work and still does not work in this world we live in today. If any pair was ever mismatched it was Diana and Charles. And the only thing that came out of that marriage was those 2 beautiful baby boys of theirs and how great they turned out today.

I am firmly convinced if they had even dated in a real sense for 6 months they would of seen they didn't suit and no proposal would of even been made.

At least they had the boys...and a few good times I'm sure.


LaRae

Yes, except Charles was in the Navy in his twenties after university, and apparently was a bit young for his age and still quite diffident around women. He probably didn't feel ready for marriage in his early twenties and by his late twenties he was falling for Camilla again.

I know Charles was an old soul and liked the company of people much older than himself. However, I really don't feel that taking advice on women of a man like Dickie Mountbatten who was born in 1900, and himself hadn't had much experience before he married at a young age, was the very best course for Charles.

IIRC Charles made the public statement about 30 being a good age to marry and of course the media ramped up as that day approached.

I agree that he was more shy/immature for his age ...a shame he was so wishy washy with Camilla back then. She was much more suited to him.


LaRae

 

[Osipi]

There were many, many different things that played into the early relationship between Charles and Diana and very much complicated matters. Most of them were external factors and expectations of other people.

What it all boils down to basically that when Charles and Diana married, they were at best acquainted strangers. Both had kind of sheltered lives and people around them always felt they knew what was "best" for them. The marriage was perfect on paper. The bride lived up to all the expectations of what a royal bride for The Prince of Wales should be. The Prince of Wales had a duty to do and took advice to heart more than actually following his own heart.

Of course they were both physically attracted to each other in various ways. All Christmas packages look so beautiful underneath a twinkling tree. But like the cheap toys. they weren't strong enough to endure a marriage and the more Charles and Diana got to really know each other, all the differences between them did more harm than good.

There were good times and they had two wonderful children but just weren't suitable for each other.

 

[M. Payton]

I totally agree with you about Charles being very shy/immature and in fact in looking at the magazines that I have collected over the years I see him then as very weak, insecure in whom he was and what he was suppose to do with his position, he appeared so at unease with himself so many times, and he only knew one way of life, as I believe Camilla did and also to some extent Diana for they all ran in the same social circles. The saw other people all the time at events yet they really had no way of knowing about those other people, what their lives were like or about. It was fish bowl of mixed up young adults trying to make in the world and they ran with their feelings and took no responsibility for their behavior or actions. This was a marriage made by others thinking Diana would toe the line, come to see, she had a mind of her own and it was very mixed up at times by her own insecurities and weaknesses.

The two of them just did not mix at all and as many here say, the boys are the very best thing out of that marriage made by others. And how proud Diana would be of them today as I am sure Charles is.

 

[Pranter]

I totally agree with you about Charles being very shy/immature and in fact in looking at the magazines that I have collected over the years I see him then as very weak, insecure in whom he was and what he was suppose to do with his position, he appeared so at unease with himself so many times, and he only knew one way of life, as I believe Camilla did and also to some extent Diana for they all ran in the same social circles. The saw other people all the time at events yet they really had no way of knowing about those other people, what their lives were like or about. It was fish bowl of mixed up young adults trying to make in the world and they ran with their feelings and took no responsibility for their behavior or actions. This was a marriage made by others thinking Diana would toe the line, come to see, she had a mind of her own and it was very mixed up at times by her own insecurities and weaknesses.

The two of them just did not mix at all and as many here say, the boys are the very best thing out of that marriage made by others. And how proud Diana would be of them today as I am sure Charles is.

In some ways Charles reminds me of his Great Uncle David.


LaRae

 

[Mermaid1962]

I find it strange because I haven't seen a situation like that. A seventeen-year-old isn't an adult; and people who aren't yet adults usually live with older people. Maybe it's just a cultural difference.

why would they? I was living in a shared house at a little older..
I would find it strange if a young woman was NOT living in a flat, rather than at home...

 

[Osipi]

I think it depends on the person and their situation. Its not like Diana had packed up and moved to NYC by herself and had to make a go of life on her own. She had plenty of money to fall back on, she lived with girls of her own social types, could pick and choose what she wanted to do with her time. It was just another step towards adulthood with pretty much the same "dormitory" type situation that she'd been used to for years. Other than holidays and vacations, it had been years since she actually "lived" at home with parents.

 

[AristoCat]

Thing is, in that set, obedience is unquestioned and expected. Charles was deferential to his elders and if he had been a woman he would have been the perfect lady. I think Diana was enjoying life to the full and was likely feeling free from the tensions of her home life. I do think that Charles was likely not just agreeing with his Uncle Dicky to mess around, but ended up obeying instead of just agreeing to enjoy life. I hear Dickie (Mountbatten) told him to sow his wild oats and then Charles took that as an order and obediently started having numerous trysts.

 

[Denville]

I find it strange because I haven't seen a situation like that. A seventeen-year-old isn't an adult; and people who aren't yet adults usually live with older people. Maybe it's just a cultural difference.

Really? Diana had left school, she was old enough to work, and almost to vote. She was young for her age true but I can't see that she wasn't an adult or "had to live with older people". I went to live in a shared house at 19, wanted to go earlier... I would have said that in the western world most people would consider a girl of 17 or 18 was an adult and old enough to start to look after herself. Diana had very little experience of adulthood, in any case, too little. The situation of falling in love with Charles meant that she could nott have the normal time of gaining experience of men, by dating and having relationships. but had she been single for a few more years, she would have probalbly at least met more people, had different jobs.. maybe travelled a bit..

Thing is, in that set, obedience is unquestioned and expected. Charles was deferential to his elders and if he had been a woman he would have been the perfect lady. I think Diana was enjoying life to the full and was likely feeling free from the tensions of her home life. I do think that Charles was likely not just agreeing with his Uncle Dicky to mess around, but ended up obeying instead of just agreeing to enjoy life. I hear Dickie (Mountbatten) told him to sow his wild oats and then Charles took that as an order and obediently started having numerous trysts.

you think that its not normal for a young man in his 20s to have sexual relatonships? or that Charles was just doing this to please his uncle?

 

[Denville]

I don't know that Diana planned to be married at 20, however it's not like there was going to be a long courtship with Charles...I think she was very caught up in it all.


LaRae

i should not think the PLANNED it, but I would say she liked the idea of marrying early. SHe had no career plans, and no big interests at the time.. and I don't think she wanted to flirt and have a lot of boyfriends. So she was problaby very happy to have a chance of getting married, having a home of her own and a life of her onw and babies, early

 

[Osipi]

In Diana's early years, in a lot of sources its been said that Diana had the feeling that she was destined for something special. Her nickname was "Duch" and it was a reason Diana "kept herself tidy" for whatever was to come.

I think that if Diana hadn't captured the attention of the Prince of Wales at the age of 19, she may have taken more time before marrying. Once Charles showed interest, that was it for Diana. It was full speed ahead and that was it. Her knight in shining armor had appeared on the scene.

I do think that the Prince of Wales title had a lot to do with Diana's initial attraction to Charles. If Charles had been more of a lower titled aristocrat, I don't think she'd have paid any attention to him.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I wonder if that is even in doubt. Diana never would have dated or married Charles if he wasn't a prince. On the other hand I feel Sarah would have still married Andrew if he wasn't a Prince but still would have cheated because she's so flaky.

 

[Dee Anna]

I think it depends on the person and their situation. Its not like Diana had packed up and moved to NYC by herself and had to make a go of life on her own. She had plenty of money to fall back on, she lived with girls of her own social types, could pick and choose what she wanted to do with her time. It was just another step towards adulthood with pretty much the same "dormitory" type situation that she'd been used to for years. Other than holidays and vacations, it had been years since she actually "lived" at home with parents.

And of course not her parents, but her father and a step mother she didn't get on with. She moved into a flat bought most likely as a birthday present or a school leaving present by I believe her mother. I think I read somewhere that Frances bought her three daughters flats when they left school / came of age.

Even if she adored her family homelife there would have been very little in terms of a suitable job for her locally and London was where all her peers hung out. The country was for weekends.

Sharing with three other girls she was experiencing young independant adulthood - the next phase in life - and holding down a job which may not have been the best paid but was suplimented with the rent from her roomates so making her own money. She had her own car so I imagine felt fully independant. And at that age what more could you want! For then.

 

[Denville]

In I think that if Diana hadn't captured the attention of the Prince of Wales at the age of 19, she may have taken more time before marrying. Once Charles showed interest, that was it for Diana. It was full speed ahead and that was it. Her knight in shining armor had appeared on the scene.

I do think that the Prince of Wales title had a lot to do with Diana's initial attraction to Charles. If Charles had been more of a lower titled aristocrat, I don't think she'd have paid any attention to him.

so why did she date several men who had no titles...

 

[Denville]

Even if she adored her family homelife there would have been very little in terms of a suitable job for her locally and London was where all her peers hung out. The country was for weekends.

Sharing with three other girls she was experiencing young independant adulthood - the next phase in life - and holding down a job which may not have been the best paid but was suplimented with the rent from her roomates so making her own money. She had her own car so I imagine felt fully independant. And at that age what more could you want! For then.

what on earth girl of 17 or 18 doesn't want to be independent and live away from her family???

 

[Osipi]

so why did she date several men who had no titles...

Sure , she dated a few guys and they were friends within the circle she ran in. She also kept her distance from them as far as getting overly romantically involved. Nothing was a serious relationship.

I just think that if Charles didn't come along when he did, this MO would have continued for quite a while with her finding some kind of serious relationship and marriage down the line perhaps into her mid-late 20s. Whom she dated and eventually married probably wouldn't have mattered to her as she matured but at 19, to be paid attention to and courted by the Prince of Wales most likely did go to her head. Charles, at the time, was the most eligible bachelor.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I doubt Diana would have gotten married in her late 20's, women around her seemed to be married by 22-24; how old were her mother and sisters when they married? Honestly it seemed that all that was left for Diana and girls like her at the time was marriage.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

what on earth girl of 17 or 18 doesn't want to be independent and live away from her family???

Unless they are going away to college, many young women of 17 or 18 do not choose to live away from their families even now. I certainly did not, and my parents would have freaked if I'd even tried to move away from them at that age.

Women of Diana's social class and era(70's to early 80's) were raised to marry and more importantly to marry well. Also it would have been considered unthinkable for a young woman of Diana's position-titled Lady, very young, daughter of an Earl-to live with someone outside of marriage. It would have even been frowned on for the 30 year old PoW at that time.

Lord Spencer is said to have only very reluctantly permitted Diana $$ from her trust to buy her own flat in London after she turned 18, and only on the condition that she get flatmates.

Diana had left her Swiss finishing school vowing that she was done with her formal education for good, so her parents' options about what to do with her at that point were dwindling.

 

[Pranter]

I think older teen (graduated) children living with their families is very much the norm in some cultures ...probably less so in the US now days although in the past much more common. That said, I think it's making a comeback to some degree though.




LaRae

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I doubt Diana would have gotten married in her late 20's, women around her seemed to be married by 22-24; how old were her mother and sisters when they married? Honestly it seemed that all that was left for Diana and girls like her at the time was marriage.

Jane was 21, Sarah was 25 when they married Robert and Neil. Her mother was 18 when she married Diana's father.