Charles and Diana

[Dman]

It's a figure of speech. Not sure what to say to explain it. I am saying that she had the money, the influence, and the (social) power to shape her own life as she chose. After her separation, and most definitely after her divorce when she effectively exited the BRF, Diana could have lived a quiet life with only the few obligatory appearances tied to her position vis-a-vis her sons.

In fact had she been so inclined to live there is the possibility she would have been able to marry the doctor. As I say, she'd be alive today had she been able to un-focus from the crowd.



In my book Diana lived a 'nested life', very much so, as does The Queen. With Charles she got addicted to the adulation of the crowd. It's a very sad story. In fact, it's the one thing she could have really taken a lesson from Charles concerning, and from the whole of the BRF: how to live a life privately away from the public eye.

Diana felt a lot of love and comfort from the people because she wasn't getting much of that in her private life. When your husband is more interested in comforting his plants then you, that leads to issues.

 

[Denville]

I don't really know what it means, Sorry. to me a nested life would be a cosy family life, and she didn't have that. when she finally got free of marriage, her boys were growing up and they were also naturally at the age where they were starting to leanr about hteir royal obligations, and were bound to be taken over a bit by Charle's family, so she could not really have a cosy private life iwht them.. they were not going to be there for much longer.

I don't believe she would ever have been abel to "marry the doctor" as Khan was very much unwilling to commit to a woman who wasn't what his family felt was right.. ie a muslim from his country and "of good birth"..
He came from a traditional culture and seems to have bene very much tied to it.. no matter how he loved her. And he may have felt that having been the wife of a Prince she could never have just become the wife of a working doctor. SO I think she was in a position of having to look for a man who was ultra rich, who would not feel financialy and socialy inferior to her.. so it wasn't as if she could "just snap her fingers" and find a cosy "nested life".

 

[Lady Nimue]

Diana felt a lot of love and comfort from the people because she wasn't getting much of that in her private life.

Love and comfort 'from the people'? That was Diana's tragedy. She was addicted to the falseness of the crowd's adulation.

But behind your comment is your failure to put Diana in context: she had a lover for 5-6 years. She was feeling love and comfort (as long as it suited her to keep him on her string). And while she had the lover she was dallying elsewhere, too.

When your husband is more interested in comforting his plants then you, that leads to issues.

I am likely the only one here who has a very different view of Diana's intentions when entering the marriage. This is wholly my own view based on the character of the woman as I have observed in the record available: namely, I believe Diana fully intended to partake in the aristocratic free-form marriage scenario common then. (Camilla had such a marriage, for example, and Diana would have known that, both before and after they were friendly).

Your comment is out of Diana's spin, she gleefully ridiculed Charles in several instances that got taken up like hounds to the scent by the tabloid press and 'the crowd'. Diana was only ever distracting attention away from her own considerable marital transgressions.

Diana painted a self-portrait of victim-hood that I have never been able to 'buy'. Diana was having plenty of fun with her flirtations and lovers. It was only when she was getting caught that she began the spin. She was a master of managing her press, I will say that.

I don't really know what it means, Sorry. to me a nested life would be a cosy family life, and she didn't have that.

But she could have. That is a choice she could have made. For some reason, she didn't.

when she finally got free of marriage, her boys were growing up and they were also naturally at the age where they were starting to leanr about hteir royal obligations, and were bound to be taken over a bit by Charle's family, so she could not really have a cosy private life iwht them.. they were not going to be there for much longer.

True, but here is the problem: a 'cosy private life' is what we make it, with friends and interests, not just children. To create a cosy private life was in her power. She had the wealth and freedom to have a pretty nice private life, children or not.

I don't believe she would ever have been abel to "marry the doctor" as Khan was very much unwilling to commit to a woman who wasn't what his family felt was right.. ie a muslim from his country and "of good birth".. He came from a traditional culture and seems to have bene very much tied to it.. no matter how he loved her.

Okay, I was just giving that as an example.

And he may have felt that having been the wife of a Prince she could never have just become the wife of a working doctor.

I think this is a bit ott thinking. We are getting into class and status issues that I cannot comment on. The idea that Diana was too high-flying (to marry 'beneath her') because of her connection to Charles just goes to prove one of my points about Diana: she was who she was on the world stage because Charles chose her as his first wife. Full stop. Not married to Charles, no world stage.

SO I think she was in a position of having to look for a man who was ultra rich, who would not feel financialy and socialy inferior to her.. so it wasn't as if she could "just snap her fingers" and find a cosy "nested life".

Curious line of logic. Firstly, I don't think Haznat Khan felt inferior to her, and I don't think any worthy man would. Love is love, if its love.

What Diana was doing with Dodi Fayed (who was obeying his father) was very, very far from love and a necessity for her. (Methinks you are applying Jackie Kennedy Logic, when she married Aristotle Onassis, to Diana).

A cozy nested life is made, is created, by oneself. It's a choice. Yes, with a snap of the fingers she could have stopped calling the press to tell them where she would be so they could get photo-ops. She could have made her public profile less and worked more behind the scenes. She had the where-withal for all that, with Charles' and likely the resources of the BRF at her disposal. Instead she made other choices and she died. Sad story.

 

[Denville]

FOr Diana, I think that a "cosy nested life" would have included a husbadnd and children and that was nto that easy to find. Idont knowwhat you mean by your remarks about class and status. The fact is that as an "ex princess" who had been married to a future king, she was going to seem "above" many men who might have been her equals socialy and financially when she was single. that's a fact, she was still the mother of a future king and the divorced wife of a future king. her status didn't drop THAT far.
As regards status issues, and money issues I'd say that any man with any pride would feel that he should be on some kind of level pegging with his wife..
so as I've said Diana had to go to the "super rich" and was dating Dodi Fayed, but I am not sure if she was very serious about him and she seemed to be getting bored with him by the end of their holiday. Of course Khan did not feel inferior to her as a person, but I think one of his issues with her was that he felt that as a former princess, she would not be able to become the wife of a doctor.
As for your remarks "I believe Diana fully intended to partake in the aristocratic free-form marriage scenario common then" I think that you are completely wrong.
If that were the case, she would never have cared about Camilla. She would have been quiet about charles' affair because if she wanted to go on having affairs herself, her best protection was to be part of the RF who would protect her... and for Charles to be busy with his mistress and busy keeping his indiscretion from the Press.

 

[Denville]

"And while she had the lover she was dallying elsewhere, too." ?"
what evidence is there of this??
I assume you mean James Hewitt..and I don't know of her having another lover while she was with him. I don't believe she was "having fun with a number of lovers" as you appear to tthink..
Hewitt partly solved her problems of loneliness and gave her a pleasant relationship and a sex life for a time.. but he was disloyal and ultimately selfish.. and she was not IMO all htat happy. She was unhappy because the man she loved, the father of her children was not interested in her.. and because she could not have an open relationship with another man.. and she was constantly worrying that her affair with JH would get out.

 

[Dman]

Lady Nimue, we all know Diana had her own affairs. None of the those affairs really made her happy gave her that much comfort. She wanted love and comfort from her husband. Her downfall was she picked bad men.

She wasn't addicted by the love and comfort from the crowds. They liked her and she liked them. There's nothing wrong with forming a warm relationship with the public. She was their princess and they were her people. When she passed, the public came out for her and said goodbye. To this day, people like to dismiss the real feelings the public felt about Diana and her tragic passing. They like calling it media hyped hysteria and such. It's was just plain love and grief for Diana.

All the senior royals try to manage their PR. The royals love the good press and hate the bad press. It's a love/hate relationship that will carry on throughout the lives of the next generation of royals too. That's the reality of being a public figure.

 

[Denville]

I agree that I think she would rather have had the love of her husband, or a lover whom she could openly be seen with, than "the adulation of the crowds". I think that it idd become a substitute love for her.. it helped a bit to make up for the loneliness she suffered in her marriage and with her kids growing up and having to spend time with the RF.
and indeed she was no different to other Royals in trying to manage her PR and get a "good image". ]
I would not say she always picked bad men, Hewitt was selfish, yes, Hoare was discreett but he let her down. Dodi was a lightweight but I think that Khan was a good man who loved her, and maybe there was a man out there who could take on the baggage of a woman who was the ex wife of a prince and a global icon...

 

[Countessmeout]

"And while she had the lover she was dallying elsewhere, too." ?"
what evidence is there of this??
I assume you mean James Hewitt..and I don't know of her having another lover while she was with him. I don't believe she was "having fun with a number of lovers" as you appear to tthink..
Hewitt partly solved her problems of loneliness and gave her a pleasant relationship and a sex life for a time.. but he was disloyal and ultimately selfish.. and she was not IMO all htat happy. She was unhappy because the man she loved, the father of her children was not interested in her.. and because she could not have an open relationship with another man.. and she was constantly worrying that her affair with JH would get out.

James Gilbey. The two relationships over lapped a great deal. Though it us said Diana was never as close to Gilbey. Some recordings caused a scandal.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squidgygate

 

[Osipi]

Marriage is what both parties make out of it. There are no guarantees that the wedding will instantly bestow a happy marriage on a couple.

Both parties made their own mistakes and went about things the wrong way and neither were very good at the give and take of compromise. If C&D had been ordinary people living ordinary lives, the marriage itself probably would have been much, much shorter.

 

[Lady Nimue]

FOr Diana, I think that a "cosy nested life" would have included a husbadnd and children and that was nto that easy to find.

Maybe, but we actually don't really know what Diana was aiming for personally. My comment was that I have never understood why she did not opt for a cozy nested life, though I have my hunches as I've read about her. Who knows.

Idont knowwhat you mean by your remarks about class and status.

I think you do given what you say here -

The fact is that as an "ex princess" who had been married to a future king, she was going to seem "above" many men who might have been her equals socialy and financially when she was single. that's a fact, she was still the mother of a future king and the divorced wife of a future king. her status didn't drop THAT far.

You are describing class and status beliefs in the forgoing. They are beliefs that potentially (maybe) constrained her but I don't really know. Do you? I mean that sincerely. Does anyone? I'm asking sincerely, anyone know? For someone who seemed to want 'normality' for her sons, and had such an averse reaction to 'royal life' as lived by the current monarch, something doesn't add up here with what you are saying about 'status'.

As regards status issues, and money issues I'd say that any man with any pride would feel that he should be on some kind of level pegging with his wife.. so as I've said Diana had to go to the "super rich" and was dating Dodi Fayed, but I am not sure if she was very serious about him and she seemed to be getting bored with him by the end of their holiday. Of course Khan did not feel inferior to her as a person, but I think one of his issues with her was that he felt that as a former princess, she would not be able to become the wife of a doctor.

I will respect what you believe as stated here, dear Denville. I am a feminist (a Marxist feminist, no less, according to one quiz I just took on FB ) and I just see through a different lens than you do regarding male/female relations. In fact it just struck me that I may be at a disadvantage when assessing Diana because I am not of her time and place regarding male-female stuff.

As for your remarks "I believe Diana fully intended to partake in the aristocratic free-form marriage scenario common then" I think that you are completely wrong.

Oh, yes, I think I am very much on the mark. It explains her attitude of untouchability. Watch her for any length of time (as I have on YouTube) and you will see a very sure-of-herself person (arched glances notwithstanding, there is a steeliness to her manner, she knows herself). We even have quotes from people who knew her during her early married life mentioning how 'commanding' she was, willful. (I am aware of the bulimia. What I am suggesting is not contradictory. It's all about control).

If that were the case, she would never have cared about Camilla. She would have been quiet about charles' affair because if she wanted to go on having affairs herself, her best protection was to be part of the RF who would protect her... and for Charles to be busy with his mistress and busy keeping his indiscretion from the Press.

Look at the timeline. She threw Camilla under the bus because Camilla was convenient for her purposes at the time. Diana was in hot water. The newspapers were starting to break the stories of her affairs, and the tapes were hanging over her, the Squidgy tapes. Did someone tip her off to those? I am actually very fuzzy about those tapes and Charles' tapes, the timeline on the two. She did what she did to deflect away from herself. She had to accuse first. She had to spin first. She did.

Charles did not have to keep busy hiding anything. He was discreet already. I cannot find any allusions to Charles' infidelity at the time (prior to the tape). Was there? [EDIT: Yes, there was, in the late 80's there were articles about both Charles and Diana having 'outside interests' and no longer co-habiting.] There was plenty of talk about Diana especially with the tapes tumbling out. Is this the way a future Queen behaves? One can imagine the fear set in motion. The Morton book and Diana's spin in it were her mounting a defense for the seriousness of her transgression. Instead of it being about her it became about a boring stuffy royal life with a 'ridiculous' Prince, etc. Inspired. That's how I see it.

 

[Lady Nimue]

Lady Nimue, we all know Diana had her own affairs. None of the those affairs really made her happy gave her that much comfort. She wanted love and comfort from her husband. Her downfall was she picked bad men.

Not according to Diana. She 'adored' Hewitt. We just have to look at the body language to see how smitten she was and how fully into it he was. He was her lap dog, I do believe, and during those years she presented in public as a radiant, in-love presence. She was happy. She was not pining away for love as best as I can see.

She wasn't addicted by the love and comfort from the crowds.

Well, the evidence is to the contrary, I fear. She called up the press to let them know where she would be for photo-ops. I call that a kind of addiction.

They liked her and she liked them. There's nothing wrong with forming a warm relationship with the public. She was their princess and they were her people.

Okay. Rock stars have that. Actors have that. Presidents and Popes have that. But none of it is 'real'. It's not intimate, personal life. Remember Janis Joplin's famous line about going home alone?

Also, 'wrongness' has nothing to do with any of it. A good rapport with a crowd is to be desired for anyone who stands in front of a crowd, else it's a lynch mob. But I wouldn't take that 'adulation' home to bed. A mistake. It's fickle, as she was experiencing.

Question: were they 'her people'? Weren't they actually The Queen's people first, then Charles' people? How could they be 'the consort's people'? If this is all true for Diana then it all must apply to Camilla, who has Diana's exact same status as Charles' wife. But I have a hunch you would not ascribe that to Camilla (not that she would even want to go down that road, that way of thinking about herself).

When she passed, the public came out for her and said goodbye. To this day, people like to dismiss the real feelings the public felt about Diana and her tragic passing. They like calling it media hyped hysteria and such. It's was just plain love and grief for Diana.

Well, it was definitely a drama. Very karmic. Strange to watch then, strange to watch now on video.

All the senior royals try to manage their PR. The royals love the good press and hate the bad press. It's a love/hate relationship that will carry on throughout the lives of the next generation of royals too. That's the reality of being a public figure.

Not like Diana did. She was unique as far as I can see.

 

[Dman]

Lady Nimue,

The guys Diana had in her life only gave her a short and false sense of happiness. Now I do think, had she loved, Diana would've found a stable relationship. It just was t in the cards for her though.

Yes, the people are the royals subjects. It's a good thing if the royals and people form a good relationship with each other. Diana enjoyed meeting members of the public, especially the elderly. There was no addiction but a good working and friendly relationship.

We'll just agree to disagree here.

Diana had ups and downs with PR like all public figures have. The royals PR are a funny thing.

 

[Osipi]

It is one thing to have a good "presence" and be liked and accepted by the general public but its a total different ball of wax to obsess over the way one is looked at by the public and media. There have been many sources that stated that Diana kept a close eye on everything that was published about her and what every reporter said about her. It mattered greatly to her. Very few personages that have a big public presence obsess on their image as much as Diana did. In this respect, she was very narcissistic. The public and the media defined who she was to herself.

I find it kind of sad that Diana is remembered for all her good works and how she helped and cared about people. In her private life, I think one of her biggest troubles was being able to form a mature, loving relationship with all the give and takes and the compromises and such. Diana was too concerned about how people were treating her and how people weren't stacking up to what she wanted them to be and didn't have the insight to realize that it works both ways.

 

[Denville]

James Gilbey. The two relationships over lapped a great deal. Though it us said Diana was never as close to Gilbey. Some recordings caused a scandal.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squidgygate

I don't believe this at all. I don't think that Diana was sexually involved with Gilbey and from what she says in the taped conversation, she is referring to her affiar with Hewitt as In the past.. that she "decked him out in fancy clothes" and it is well known that the affair broke for some time whle he was working abroad.. and that she and he got back together for a short time when he ahd been serving in the GUlf.

 

[Denville]

I find it kind of sad that Diana is remembered for all her good works and how she helped and cared about people. In her private life, I think one of her biggest troubles was being able to form a mature, loving relationship with all the give and takes and the compromises and such. Diana was too concerned about how people were treating her and how people weren't stacking up to what she wanted them to be and didn't have the insight to realize that it works both ways.

I'd say that most people in the public eye obsess to a greater or lesser degree about how the public perceives them. It is necessary to an extent.. they need the publicity..
Plenty of actors, politicians etc are "narcisstic" if you like ot put it that way. it doesn't take away form their talents (if they have any).
I don't know why you think it is "sad" that she's remembered for her good works? Why would that be sad? She did do a lot of good, she was good to many people who have cause to be grateful to her for generous donations, personal kindnesses like visiting them in hospital or writing letters, etc. Things over and above the normal "charity royal" duties. Why is it sad that she is remembered for her good deeds? I would say that what is sad is that she's more remembered now for her weak points, such as her unhappy marriage, unhappy love affairs etc.
Yes she did have faults and weaknesses, she had psychological problems resulting IMO from a bad childhood, which left her vulnerable and she made a big mistake in believing that the only way she could fulfil herself was by marriage. She ended up in a high stress lifestyle and marriage that left her exposed to media attention.. so naturally when she found her marriage unfulfilling, and found the media attention was on her no matter what she did, she tried to manipulate it.. so as to keep herself admired by the public.
She was afraid that if her affairs became public knowledge, given that the world is still a sexist place, she would be blamed more for her affair with Hewitt than Charles would be blamed for his with Camilla so she did try more and more to manipulate the media and they are not that easy to handle. But in spite of her problems, she did a lot of good with her public life and with her boys, (while they are IMO nothing special) she was a good mother and helped them to develop and be royals for the 21st century, and one hopes to have a happy private life..
Considering that she was a fragile person, I tink she did a lot of good with her life.. so I don't know why it is sad that she is remembered for those good works.

 

[Dman]

It is one thing to have a good "presence" and be liked and accepted by the general public but its a total different ball of wax to obsess over the way one is looked at by the public and media. There have been many sources that stated that Diana kept a close eye on everything that was published about her and what every reporter said about her. It mattered greatly to her. Very few personages that have a big public presence obsess on their image as much as Diana did. In this respect, she was very narcissistic. The public and the media defined who she was to herself.

I find it kind of sad that Diana is remembered for all her good works and how she helped and cared about people. In her private life, I think one of her biggest troubles was being able to form a mature, loving relationship with all the give and takes and the compromises and such. Diana was too concerned about how people were treating her and how people weren't stacking up to what she wanted them to be and didn't have the insight to realize that it works both ways.

The royals are always informed and read up about themselves in the media. William even mentioned this in one of his recent interviews. He knows what people say about him and those "workshy"comments. Some of the opinions goes out the window, and some they take to heart. Even The Queen reads the papers and magazines that feature the family. They care.

Diana was no different. She did care about what people said and thought about her. Many public figures do this.

The problem is people have tried to make it seem like Diana was some kind of unstable alien from another planet. She was a human being with lot of flaws like the rest of us. She had insecurities, eating issues, she had love and lost love. She went through some highs and lows of life. I think it was part of what made her so relatable to so many people. She wasn't a perfect princess who lived in some far away castle and who looked down on everybody. She had a way of letting everyone know that just because she had a title and all the trappings of royalty, her life wasn't all that together. Like most people on this planet.

 

[Dee Anna]

Absolutely agree on that!

Of course the RF are fully up to speed on what is being written or said about them, daily, for the major members I imagine. Their staff teams have employees whose jobs are dedicated to ensuring this happens.

Nowadays it's fairly predictable, the waters are calm, no scuds on any horizon!

I imagine back during the War of the Wales years must have been a fairly hetic time for the then employees!

Agree with your concept of Diana also. She wasn't perfect (thank goodness! Who is?) and neither, on the other end of the extreme scale was she the bizarre, almost schizophrenic persona who crops up from time to time.

She had her issues (her marriage being a large one) and she handled them in her own way. Like all of us, sometimes good choices, sometimes bad. Only difference, ours don't tend to make the national press headlines!

 

[Princess Squirrel]

I'm taking my mum to the Diana dress exhibition at Kensington Palace. The fact that it is being held at one of the Historic Royal Palaces goes to show that Diana has, and always will have, an important place in the history of the British royal family.

I'm pretty much 'over' all discussion of Diana being unsuitable etc as Charles's wife. Long story short it was anybody's fault but her's. Partly Charles but not even his fault really as he was just doing as he has been told. Had to marry a girl who was titled and a virgin. If not forced to that he could have married Camila in the first place. I'm just fed up of reading that Diana was to blame. She was just a teenager who fell in love and got dropped in at the deep end with no support. The royal family know that now, hence making sure not to make the same mistake with Kate Middleton.

As a big Diana fan I don't bear Camilla any grudge and I am glad Charles is happy and the Duchess does seem to be doing a good job.

 

[Iluvbertie]

So Diana was lying when she said that she was 50% to blame for the breakdown of her marriage - which she did.

If she can accept 50% of the blame why can't her fans?

 

[Anfisa]

Why did Diana and Charles not divorce sooner? Like the early 1990s as opposed to 1996?

 

[Osipi]

Its a question that has gone round quite a few times. Check out the different threads in the Diana subforum.

 

[Dman]

So Diana was lying when she said that she was 50% to blame for the breakdown of her marriage - which she did.

If she can accept 50% of the blame why can't her fans?

Her fans do accept that she is partly to blame for the breakdown of her marriage. I know I do.

 

[Princess Squirrel]

I don't want to go round and round with this. I was just responding to something someone said on the other forum which this post was moved from about Diana being unsuitable as a wife for Charles. My main point was about the exhibition. I might have known people would pounce on my other statement. It's my opinion and my opinion only. I can see that this forum is not going to be as friendly as I assumed it was so I will probably bow out, but before I do I will just say:

She probably meant by 50/50 that her and Charles were both partly to blame. Out of two people if both are half, that has to be 50/50. She could hardly say the blame was with the establishment who wanted a good titled no-skeletens-in-the-closets brood mare. Plus of course somebody who suffers from self-loathing is going to try to take a lot of the blame. Having suffered from mental health problems including annorexia myself I do know what I am talking about (I weighed 60 pounds at my lowest and came close to dying, I am 5 feet 3.5 inches tall).

 

[Curryong]

Oh, Squirrel, I am so sorry to hear that. You obviously have special insight into this condition, and I agree with you. I think Diana was valiant in performing all the engagements she did in her public life and helping others when she felt so low, so ill, so unappreciated by her husband.

Hope you enjoy the exhibition. I'd love to see it myself.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Her fans do accept that she is partly to blame for the breakdown of her marriage. I know I do.

The vast majority of her fans do not accept that she was in any way to blame for the breakdown of her marriage and accuse anyone who says so of all sorts of names. To most of her fans she is a saint who could do no wrong.

I have rarely encountered any fan of Diana who says she in any way contributed to the breakdown of the marriage and most of them want Charles to die before the Queen.

Diana's fans are some of the most hateful people I encounter on the internet and in person.

You are an exception.

 

[Dman]

The vast majority of her fans do not accept that she was in any way to blame for the breakdown of her marriage and accuse anyone who says so of all sorts of names. To most of her fans she is a saint who could do no wrong.

I have rarely encountered any fan of Diana who says she in any way contributed to the breakdown of the marriage and most of them want Charles to die before the Queen.

Diana's fans are some of the most hateful people I encounter on the internet and in person.

You are an exception.

Iluvbertie, I think one of the problems is that when folks talk about Charles and Diana and their marriage, the conversations often come out one-sided and unbalanced. One person is torn down and the other is built up or given a pass. This cannot happen. When we talk about this couple we must have a fair and balanced view. Also, we have to talk about facts and not base our comments and views on unfounded claims. A lot of what's been written about this couple are based on personal views and on unnamed sources. A lot of crap has stuck and is believed. We can't fall for that game.

Also, let's not always talk about the bad and sad years. It's very factual that Charles and Diana did love each other. They both agreed on the way to bring up their children and they had some good times as a couple. These things aren't widely talked about nor written. I think people don't find this part of the couple's married life exciting and sexy. A hell of a lot of money has been made on the backs and tonsils of Charles and Diana painful times. No one really want to talk about the happier days. That's wrong, unfair and very very silly.

 

[Princess Squirrel]

Well I as a Diana fan don't​ want Charles to die before he gets to be king, and neither does my mother-in-law in the USA who is also a Diana fan. My MIL really likes Camilla too. She was here in the UK when Charles and Camilla got married and she wanted to go to their wedding. Unfortunately Windsor was too crowded to see anything so we went home.

I blame lack of support for the failure of the marriage of Charles and Diana. A 19 year old of divorced parents with not much education or life experience compared to Kate Middleton, who was 30 on marriage, had a degree, parents still together, close siblings, a long lead-up to the engagement and a couple of years before starting a family instead of a few months, it just doesn't compare. Plus nowadays people understand mental health problems and personal support much better than they did in the 1980s.

In the end maybe it wasn't anybody's fault, it could have been just the circumstances. I do wonder if it could have made a difference if Harry had been a girl. If it's true what has been said, Charles made his disappointment at having another boy pretty plain which upset Diana when she was obviously feeling very hormonal. Perhaps if he hadn't done that they'd have gone on to have more children including the daughter they both wanted.

 

[Denville]

Why did Diana and Charles not divorce sooner? Like the early 1990s as opposed to 1996?

Because the RF esp the queen and Q Mother were very reluctant to end the marriage officially. As you know, Charles would one day be Supreme GOvernor of the C Of E, and as such for him to divorce, after an affair, or marry a divorced woman, was considered to be something that would cause problems. So the queen kept hoping, clearly that the marriage could be "saved" as a formal arrangement.

 

[Jacknch]

Please note that discussion concerning Harry's recent interview have been moved to the http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...nts-28-april-2015-a-38336-60.html#post1977024 thread. This thread is for discussing the marriage of Charles and Diana.

 

[Denville]

Iluvbertie, I think one of the problems is that when folks talk about Charles and Diana and
Also, let's not always talk about the bad and sad years. It's very factual that Charles and Diana did love each other. They both agreed on the way to bring up their children and they had some good times as a couple. These things aren't widely talked about nor written. I think people don't find this part of the couple's married life exciting and sexy. A hell of a lot of money has been made on the backs and tonsils of Charles and Diana painful times. No one really want to talk about the happier days. That's wrong, unfair and very very silly.

I think they loved each other a bit.. She loved him, but in a childlike fairytale way.. and he loved her, but I think he never loved her deeply and that he soon fell out of love because he found her so hard to live with. I don't believe that they agreed all that much about the children..He wanted them to have a loving Mum, and to be more "cared for" at home and part of their home life than he had had..but he was conscious of their positon and felt perhaps that Di let them be too informal...