Charles and Diana


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Yes, I remember reading that in "The Diana Chronicles." I'm not yet convinced that Camilla didn't have a hold on Charles' emotions throughout Charles and Diana's marriage, even if there wasn't a physical relationship until 1986. She probably wasn't the threat that Diana thought she was, but I can understand why Diana would feel threatened.

Several people, including Princess Margaret, talked privately about the hold that Camilla Parker Bowles had on the Prince of Wales at the time of the royal wedding.
 
Unless Diana had some kind of foreknowledge that the tapes would be public, I don't think she'd have pegged Camilla publicly on that basis. Andrew Morton said that the most that could be legally said about Charles and Camilla in "Her True Story" was that they were close friends and that Camilla was Charles' 'confidant.' That book was serialized in the "Sunday Times" in June of 1992. The Charles and Camilla tape wasn't published until January 1993, in Australia's "New Idea" magazine. Other than this little point, I agree with the response you gave to my post. Diana and Dale Tryon seemed to have developed some kind of allegiance by the late 80s, and so there was no need to include her in the cast of "Her True Story."
Yes, Kanga was replaced by Alexandra Shân "Tiggy" Legge-Bourke. She was the original woman she claimed Charles wanted to marry after divorcing her. She was terrified that her children would love her more.

I always found it odd that normally sensible people overlooked what Diana wrote about Camilla in "Her True Story" after she changed the "villainess" for the Panorama interview.
 
IMO Charles allowed Camilla to intrude into his marriage by remaining her close friend instead of keeping her at a distance in the early years when Diana was so young/immature and struggling to figure out how to go about things.

The physical affair may not have started up again till the mid 80's but I think the emotional 'affair' never really ended. You aren't giving/accepting presents from other women like that around the time of your wedding if you have broken all ties.



LaRae
 
IMO Charles allowed Camilla to intrude into his marriage by remaining her close friend instead of keeping her at a distance in the early years when Diana was so young/immature and struggling to figure out how to go about things.

The physical affair may not have started up again till the mid 80's but I think the emotional 'affair' never really ended. You aren't giving/accepting presents from other women like that around the time of your wedding if you have broken all ties.



LaRae

Absolutely. And emotional betrayal is just as bad, whether they were at that time physically connected, but no one can prove otherwise. I, think, he never realized that it would end in the mess it did. Mistresses were an accepted fact in his circle. S9ince, the death of Diana, Charles' spin machine has done an excellent job turning Diana into a loon and Camilla his pal.
 
I really do think Charles would of married Camilla if he could of, there was just no way during the social climate of the time he could ...she had too much of a past.

I think Camilla, no matter how she felt, knew this and she turned her attention elsewhere for a time but I think she always had some form of contact with Charles. I would not be surprised to learn she was physically involved with him off and on prior to Diana appearing on the scene...she knew he had to marry and have heirs.

I think it's obvious Charles didn't love Diana as he loved Camilla...it was a different type of relationship/love. If Diana had been more mature/confident she and Charles could of had a pretty happy marriage...she might of been able to keep his attention. I don't think Charles had a clue on how to deal with her after the real trouble started.


LaRae
 
Andrew, not Peter

Ooopsie! :rolleyes: All fixed. Thank you. :flowers:

Several people, including Princess Margaret, talked privately about the hold that Camilla Parker Bowles had on the Prince of Wales at the time of the royal wedding. Correspondents from the U.S. over in London for the nuptials, picked up on the gossip though not one word of it was broadcast. Diana had an emotional intelligence. At the time leading up to her wedding she could sense, IMO, that Charles wasn't head over heels for her and was in fact still in thrall to another woman.

If Diana really had 'emotional intelligence' (and I believe she did) then she knew sure-as-shootin' :p what Charles was or was not feeling, not so? With all that 'emotional intelligence' why was she blindsided? It's quite possible, given her character, that she started the marriage thinking she could control Charles and have her way. Just maybe, she went too far. At this point, we can float anything, but like in Literature Class, we must have supporting evidence for our view. Diana was willful, stubborn and spoilt. That we know from many sources.

Of course he wasn't 'head over heels for her'. He knew that. Diana (if she was honest with that 'emotional intelligence' of hers) knew that. (It was the same for her, I'll bet). But he cared and he was in that state that many marriages begin in: he was 'in lust'. As was she. It's something.

So we joust with 'airy-lightenings'. It's an impossible realm. Anything can be charged. No real debate can ensue. This is the squishy, boggy area. :p We could be in a Literature Class. ;)

There was a slight. Diana had declared to Charles that Dale and Camilla should not attend the wedding. (According to one biographer, because Charles admitted during an intimate moment with Diana, the two women's position as former lovers). Charles would not allow that level of slight. A compromise was reached. Dale and Camilla were invited to the wedding at the church, but not to the palace breakfast afterwards. This caused comment.

IMO Charles allowed Camilla to intrude into his marriage by remaining her close friend instead of keeping her at a distance in the early years when Diana was so young/immature and struggling to figure out how to go about things.

Did not Diana ban his circle of friends? Did not Charles comply? Camilla was not around for the early years of the marriage. Camilla was kept at a distance. Diana even banished Charles' dog. Servants were forced to leave. There was a clean sweep. By any standards, it was pretty extreme. There is no evidence that Camilla intruded.

The physical affair may not have started up again till the mid 80's but I think the emotional 'affair' never really ended. You aren't giving/accepting presents from other women like that around the time of your wedding if you have broken all ties. LaRae

"Emotional affair" is a biased phrase. Charles and Camilla were friends. And here we are. This is the stuff of novels, of plays, of conjecture. Human nature. There is no 'truth' here. Only facts, subject to interpretation. Character. Known habits. Motivations and intentions are difficult to assess. Inevitably, there will be different riffs on the theme.

BTW Wikipedia is proving to be an amazing read, like regarding 'Sqidgygate'. I am not a scholar of Diana. I've 'only just' started reading (this summer) some of the more frothy, gossipy books about her. What a ride. Wow.
 
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One of the serious biographies of Diana is by Sarah Bradford. She started her research being highly cynical about Diana but changed her mind somewhat during the course of her inquiries. I think that both Sarah Bradford and Tina Brown have written very good books. Bradford has a more scholarly style and is known for writing serious biographies. I also have her biographies of George VI and the present Queen.:flowers:
 
:previous: Thank you, Moonmaidan. :flowers: I've read one of these biographies. Not sure which.

I really do think Charles would of married Camilla if he could of, there was just no way during the social climate of the time he could ...she had too much of a past.

There's no evidence for that. :cool: The evidence is that Camilla was keen on Andrew Parker-Bowels. He was the 'catch' that every girl was eyeing. Charles was being set up for Amanda Knatchbull. As early as 1974 Charles was pursuing that arrangement per his uncle, Lord Mountbattan. That pairing was the background noise throughout the 70's, even though he had 2 or 3 significant loves during that time.

I think Camilla, no matter how she felt, knew this and she turned her attention elsewhere for a time but I think she always had some form of contact with Charles. I would not be surprised to learn she was physically involved with him off and on prior to Diana appearing on the scene...she knew he had to marry and have heirs.

Camilla and her husband were part of the royal circle of friends. Charles was the godfather of one of their children. They were friends. The way that friendship is made into something seamy is disquieting to me. How easily one's life can be trashed by innuendo. Very sad. :ermm:

This is also the spin that I read a lot, but it's based on nothing substantive. If you look at Charles' activities during the 70's, it seems unlikely. As best as I can make out this perspective stems from a need to place Camilla as an undue influence in the marriage per Diana's story. Diana colors the retrospective.

I think it's obvious Charles didn't love Diana as he loved Camilla...it was a different type of relationship/love.

Conjecture. I think Charles did love Diana. His reaction to her death says so. Comparing love qualitatively is never worthwhile imo. That's what snagged Diana.

If Diana had been more mature/confident she and Charles could of had a pretty happy marriage...she might of been able to keep his attention.

Absolutely. :flowers: I agree. But she would have had to extend herself. Read the books. Make an effort to engage with his interests. The usual.

It would have also helped if she had not misled Charles into thinking she shared his passion for the country life at Balmoral.

I don't think Charles had a clue on how to deal with her after the real trouble started. LaRae

He tried. For quite some time. I believe him when he speaks of the marriage irretrievably breaking down. Charles doesn't have to be a paragon. As best as I can make out, the behavior was so extreme that he retreated emotionally, when nothing he did could appease her. I think she exhausted him. :sad: I think she exhausted herself. Poor thing.
 
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Penny Junor is no admirer of Diana's but wrote sympathetically of Charles and Camilla's 'friendship' in 'Charles, Victim or Villain'.
'The friendship only became physical again after Laura's birth (in 1979) long after Camilla realised that the philanderer she had pursued for seven years before her marriage had continued in much the same way after..'

Sarah Bradford in her biography of Diana talking of Andrew PB 'He condoned his wife's relationship with Charles..they had an 'open marriage'. 'The queen was told of the regiment's disquiet about her son's affair with the wife of a brother officer by her former Private Secretary'.

It is pretty clear that in the years before Charles became engaged to Diana he and Camilla PB were intimate. I've already posted that Princess Margaret and members of London Society knew that Charles was in thrall to Camilla otherwise it wouldn't have been mentioned.

Diana did have forebodings, further emphasised by Charles's insistence on giving Camilla a 'farewell gift' and being alone with Camilla when he gave it. He also told her of his relationship with Mrs PB, though he stated it had ended. These weren't figments of Diana's imagination. She was a 20 year old who wanted her future husband's love. As she went down the aisle there was Mrs Parker Bowles and her son in the cathedral. Some start to a marriage!
 
Penny Junor is no admirer of Diana's but wrote sympathetically of Charles and Camilla's 'friendship' in 'Charles, Victim or Villain'.
'The friendship only became physical again after Laura's birth (in 1979) long after Camilla realised that the philanderer she had pursued for seven years before her marriage had continued in much the same way after.'

Sarah Bradford in her biography of Diana talking of Andrew PB 'He condoned his wife's relationship with Charles..they had an 'open marriage'. 'The queen was told of the regiment's disquiet about her son's affair with the wife of a brother officer by her former Private Secretary'.

It is pretty clear that in the years before Charles became engaged to Diana he and Camilla PB were intimate. I've already posted that Princess Margaret and members of London Society knew that Charles was in thrall to Camilla otherwise it wouldn't have been mentioned.

It is not clear, from what you have quoted, that Charles and Camilla were intimate 'for years' before Diana. Not at all. :cool:

I see where the 'evidence' for that view is coming from. Interesting. :cool: What you have done is proved my point, that during the 70's Charles and Camilla were not a pair. If they got together in 1979, after August, we know what that would have been about (potentially consolation around Mountbattan's death).

As for the Parker-Bowles marriage being a disillusionment for Camilla, as you (or the author) seems to suggest, it's not borne out in other ways. Had that marriage not been subject to the tabloid harassment in the 1990's, there is every reason to believe the marriage would have sailed on. The marriage was never 'in trouble', according to what I have read.

Diana did have forebodings, further emphasised by Charles's insistence on giving Camilla a 'farewell gift' and being alone with Camilla when he gave it. He also told her of his relationship with Mrs PB, though he stated it had ended. These weren't figments of Diana's imagination. She was a 20 year old who wanted her future husband's love. As she went down the aisle there was Mrs Parker Bowles and her son in the cathedral. Some start to a marriage!

That whole gift thing comes from Diana. I believe it is posited in various quarters as one of Diana's fabrications. I don't know the truth of it, I am just saying that a great deal of what Diana contended has been shown to be false. This was one.

If Diana was really that unsure, then she shouldn't have been so eager for the marriage. :sad: She was very much one of the young women circling Charles. She was acquainted with Amanda Knatchbull and Sarah Armstrong-Jones. If it is as you say, as you have quoted, then Diana knew all this. She knew she was entering a royal marriage that was effectively being arranged. She did her part to interest Charles and succeeded. I don't have much sympathy for her (apparent) upset.

In the end, we all have the brush we are painting with. In my case, I see Diana as someone who was pretty wild in her behavior in her marriage from the get-go, taking lovers pretty fast into the marriage, and in general behaving as though she were above consequences. I've already mentioned the ski-slope shenanigans with Sarah, the Duchess of York. There was another bizarre incident at Ascot, when Diana and Sarah were poking people in the crowd (I guess in the Royal Enclosure) with their umbrellas (in their behinds). Wt....? (I don't swear so I leave the third letter to your imagination :p). I'm sorry, I cannot accept that Diana was some poor, put-upon child-bride crushed by the 'ol'meanie Charles, et al. It doesn't work for me. The evidence isn't there. Just isn't.

I'll tell you what I told my mother: I saw Diana as a jerk. :ermm: If I had a friend who behaved like that? They wouldn't be my friend. That's how I felt watching her (the little I did) growing up. You can understand why Queen Silvia of Sweden was leagues beyond what one saw going on with Diana and why she was the royal I admired. Queen Silvia was pure cream. Real class imo. That's the way it was for me. I admit to that childhood bias. It is what it is.

I do think I have learned to be compassionate regarding Diana's afflictions, but more I will not grant her. She was not an innocent. She just wasn't. JMO. :flowers:

I think I've talked enough about Diana. ;) I don't have all the facts. Most of you know far more than me about her. So I'll just let it rest from my end. I do appreciate the conversation, though. I've learned some things and I'll definitely keep reading until I've had my fill (which may not be too far down the road :p ).
 
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IMO Charles allowed Camilla to intrude into his marriage by remaining her close friend instead of keeping her at a distance in the early years when Diana was so young/immature and struggling to figure out how to go about things.

The physical affair may not have started up again till the mid 80's but I think the emotional 'affair' never really ended. You aren't giving/accepting presents from other women like that around the time of your wedding if you have broken all ties.

LaRae

Totally agree!

I wonder if he though her youth and starry eyed naivete would make her blind to it. Does he or Camilla ever contemplate on this part of their past? What a massive impact that made.
 
Totally agree!

I wonder if he though her youth and starry eyed naivete would make her blind to it. Does he or Camilla ever contemplate on this part of their past? What a massive impact that made.


I think he had enormous pressure to marry, he liked Diana, she was young and adoring, beautiful and she wanted to take care of people (to include him)...what's not to like? He was fond of her and perhaps even loved her in an affectionate way (we all know his famous statement about whatever love is).

They didn't spend much time together alone at all before marrying...he either ignored some of the negatives or he thought things would smooth out after all the hoopla was over. Easy enough to write off some of the warning signs as due to the intense media pressure and I am sure that played a role as well.

I think he probably thought he could compartmentalize his life to some degree. Diana is the wife, mother of the heirs, public consort and even have some sort of happy marriage where they rubbed along on a more superficial level. However he had some pretty deep intellectual needs and other interests...the idea that a girl barely 20 who was not an intellectual. not a rider, not understanding (yet) about a passion for conservation would be able to match him ...well he had his friends for that. IMO affairs are rarely about sex.

Now it's possible as Diana matured she could of met more of those needs but things just never developed to that point for all sorts of reasons.

I kinda think Charles was probably a selfish and/or self centered person when he was younger...and I think he was way in over his head trying to handle someone like Diana. Easier to just put some distance between you and try to muddle along the best you can. He just didn't reckon with the fact that Diana couldn't handle that.

I think she tried out the 'traditional' upper crust marriage where you have the heirs then are free to pursue you own interests as long as you keep up appearances and are discreet, but it didn't work for her...she didn't marry the only man who couldn't divorce her in order to end up in a pretend marriage.




LaRae
 
Random thoughts:
My thought is that Diana was paranoid and lied like a rug but there was something there there when it came to Charles and Camilla. I don't remember who said what but I recall commentators who I deemed either pro-Charles or neutral discussing Charles and Camilla remaining connected when Charles was engaged and/or married to Diana.

Camilla is definitely the right person for Charles but I don't necessarily think that Charles and Camilla fell deeply in love with each other during their initial romance and then carried torches for each other while they married other people. They fell deeply in love, or at least Charles did, but I think that came later on.

To me neither Charles or Diana was madly in love with the other at the time they married but each felt he/she had the requisite amount of affection and attraction to the other to be life-long partners. Both Charles and Diana expected to be married to each other for life, to have children together and to work for "the Firm," given this level of entanglement, I don't think that they entered the marriage with the intent to hurt the other, or to even have reckless disregard for the other.

If Diana fell in love with Charles it was because he was her ticket to becoming a Princess/Queen, if Charles was just some rich guy in her social circle, Diana would not have given him the time of day.

Again there was something there there with Charles and Camilla, but why did Diana feel the need to make public that "there were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded" when she did it. She started cooperating with the Morton book in 1991, at that point she had overcome her bulimia, she and Charles had been living separate lives and she had had three extra-marital, although not necessarily sexual, dalliances - the RPO, James Hewitt and James Gilbey. Perhaps she still had a problem with Charles and Camilla but was she as consumed and bothered by their relationship as she wanted people to believe? My theory is that at that point what Diana was really consumed with was her public image, and when it seemed like her extra-marital dalliances or other negative/scandalous things may become public, she made a preemptive strike and exposed negative things about her marriage and life as a royal to lay the groundwork in the event any misdeeds on her part became public and she wanted it to be deemed that she was in an untenable situation and victimized.
 
1991 was when she dumped James Hewitt so the idea that he could get involved in a 'tell-all' book unless she got her version of events out there first to divert attention from her own affair/s is a good presumption.
 
I appreciate the thoughtful posts recently. Very interesting reading.


We will never know if Charles and Camilla continued their relationship, physical or emotional, throughout his marriage to Diana. Diana wouldn't have known either, which is why I tend to disregard her accusations. We also don't know the nature of some of Diana's relationships with other men. I tend to think that Barry Manakee was her first lover, but we don't know that for certain. Regardless, she was certainly shared an emotion connection with him.


We do know that Diana and Charles did not connect emotionally. I think those on Charles' side tend to downplay or forget how painful it must have been for Diana to be married to a man who was not intimate with her. They also tend to minimize the impact his affair, whenever it started, had on Diana. It must have been devastating.


On the other hand, many of Diana's fans forget the impact of Diana's decision to be dishonest when she was chasing after Charles. Queen Claud is right that Diana wouldn't have given Charles a second thought if he hadn't been the Prince of Wales. It was only natural that Charles resented and distrusted her when he found out the truth.


The other factor that Diana's fans tend to minimize is that she suffered from a serious mental illness, which is very hard for any spouse. The divorce rate for people with bulimia is very high. It is hard to be emotionally intimate with someone who has mentally ill and has been dishonest with you.


I've always found it interesting that for some of her admirers, Diana is frozen in time as a 19 year old virgin. They seem to argue that since they blame Charles for marrying her in the first place, they can excuse Diana's terrible behavior throughout the rest of her life. They completely overlook that she had affairs with married men, tried to publicly destroy the father of her children, and put her public image above the needs of other people, including her own children. I don't think that they would be so understanding if they were Mrs. Hoare or Mrs. Carling.
 
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We do know that Diana and Charles did not connect emotionally. I think those on Charles' side tend to downplay or forget how painful it must have been for Diana to be married to a man who was not intimate with her. They also tend to minimize the impact his affair, whenever it started, had on Diana. It must have been devastating.

People on Diana's side ignore how painful it must have been for Charles to be married to woman who was not truthful and could not be intimate with him. (If you love someone you should be honest with them.)

They tend to minimize the impact of her affairs had on Charles and how devastating it was to him, both as a man and as POW to have a wife that was unfaithful.

We do not know who broke their wedding vows first.
 
Well neither of them can take the high ground since they both admitted to adultery.


LaRae
 
I think if we do some careful observation of what Charles life is like now, we can get a glimmer into what Diana had to face when she first married. Before the wedding, how awesome it was going to be as she would be the Princess of Wales. As been stated many times, Charles and Diana actually didn't spend all that much time together before they married and I do think a lot of that is visible in Charles' life today as we've all seen and heard the rumors of Charles and Camilla leading separate lives and doing their own things. It suits C&C to a tee and they're comfortable enough in the marriage to not need to be in each other's back pockets constantly. I think a stress factor for Diana very early on in the marriage is that she married a man that was constantly on the go and most likely had a very chock filled daily planner. It wasn't a life most newlyweds can enjoy such as coming home from work and having a meal together every night. Perhaps Diana thought she could change Charles after they wed into a more "homebody" husband but found that as much as the Princess of Wales was so attractive to her perhaps the role of Prince of Wales wasn't so attractive as it took him away from her so much.

As we've read that when Diana moved into Buckingham palace, she found herself on her own quite a bit of the time. Perhaps that should have been a red warning light right there that it just may well be the way things will be once married.

I do think there most likely were other underlining reasons why the marriage disintegrated besides the affairs. Affairs usually come about when other things are threatening a relationship and seem like a good idea at the time to fill a need that's been neglected.
 
Well neither of them can take the high ground since they both admitted to adultery.


LaRae

I agree to a point, but feelings aren't rational. I think Diana's adultery has less impact on Charles than Charles' adultery did on Diana.

I think that the marriage was virtually over for Charles by the time Mannakee entered the picture in '86 (?). Whether he rekindled his affair with Camilla before or after, Charles was no longer committed to Diana.

On the other hand, I think Diana had flings but really didn't fall in love with anyone else, until Hasnat Khan.
 
I agree to a point, but feelings aren't rational. I think Diana's adultery has less impact on Charles than Charles' adultery did on Diana.

I think that the marriage was virtually over for Charles by the time Mannakee entered the picture in '86 (?). Whether he rekindled his affair with Camilla before or after, Charles was no longer committed to Diana.

On the other hand, I think Diana had flings but really didn't fall in love with anyone else, until Hasnat Khan.


I agree it did effect her more, and I wish her family would of intervened early on before she said yes... I don't think the marriage ever really got off the ground. The few unifying moments were not enough to overcome the rest.



LaRae
 
Okay, a few more comments. ;)

Totally agree! I wonder if he though her youth and starry eyed naivete would make her blind to it. Does he or Camilla ever contemplate on this part of their past? What a massive impact that made.

If we take out Diana's retrospective coloring of the past, you forget that Camilla was really doing everything to receive Diana into Charles' circle of friends. That's what Camilla was doing, as were other friends of Charles', who were just enough older to be of another generational stream. A gift to a friend for being a friend like he gave to many friends was not a signal of unusual intimacy or significance to those who knew Charles. That circle of friends thought they were receiving Diana into their midst. Little did they bargain that Diana would banish them, and Charles would comply.

What is more likely is that Camilla felt kicked in the teeth. Recall that Camilla (by the time Diana outed Camilla) really was in an affair with Charles, and there had been a confrontation at a party.

Diana was obsessed with what people thought of her. As is always stated, she was a people-pleaser. I have long had the suspicion that Diana's alleged discomfort with Charles' 'whatever love is' comment to be about the crack in the image, not about Charles' real feelings. She knew he lusted for her. She knew she had him in thrall at that point. She didn't like (I think) the suggestion that it was anything else but what she wanted it to appear to the world, her triumph. (It did put the match-up in a strange light, I will grant you that. Charles evidencing a bit of his father's foot-in-mouth disease, methinks). Same with the astonishing confrontation at the party. Camilla with Charles and others drinking and conversing obviously away from her was what scalded, I think. She had banished all the friends, and here they were, back again, and in force, etc.. :sad:

Because I believe that Charles, given what we know of his character, likely behaved honorably in the early days of the marriage, and because I think the same degree of good sense likely governed Camilla's behavior, too, I don't think either of them have anything to reproach themselves for. IMO.

They didn't spend much time together alone at all before marrying...he either ignored some of the negatives or he thought things would smooth out after all the hoopla was over. Easy enough to write off some of the warning signs as due to the intense media pressure and I am sure that played a role as well.

They spent enough time, especially sexually. Charles could never have cancelled the engagement once it was announced. It's been suggested that Charles had second thoughts. At the altar he definitely showed indications of being stressed. The expressions in general on the faces of the BRF were somber in the extreme that day in the church. No one looked very happy.

I kinda think Charles was probably a selfish and/or self centered person when he was younger...and I think he was way in over his head trying to handle someone like Diana. Easier to just put some distance between you and try to muddle along the best you can. He just didn't reckon with the fact that Diana couldn't handle that.

That's the spin. He is definitely royal. He was the heir, after all. It's unlikely he transcended his upbringing and royal conditioning by the stroke of marriage. He experiences himself as always the center of every action, that has to have a consequence. However, temper notwithstanding, reports about him (from servants) paint him as a man of sensitivity, gentleness and caring. Whatever kind of man Diana married, she had not married a brute.

I think she tried out the 'traditional' upper crust marriage where you have the heirs then are free to pursue you own interests as long as you keep up appearances and are discreet, but it didn't work for her...she didn't marry the only man who couldn't divorce her in order to end up in a pretend marriage. LaRae

I think it's hard to say what was working for Diana since many of her actions, especially vis-a-vis the press, were initiated to protect her image as Princess of Wales. I think she was fine with a 'pretend marriage' until it was in her best interests to spin it otherwise.

I don't think that they entered the marriage with the intent to hurt the other, or to even have reckless disregard for the other.

Exactly so. :flowers:

If Diana fell in love with Charles it was because he was her ticket to becoming a Princess/Queen, if Charles was just some rich guy in her social circle, Diana would not have given him the time of day.

Afraid so. :sad: (Poor Charles) I am reading a book right now that goes into the fact that Diana was actually 'meant' for Andrew. It was with Amanda Knatchbull declining, and then the fiasco with Anna Wallace, that opened up the possibility of Charles for Diana.

Again there was something there there with Charles and Camilla, but why did Diana feel the need to make public that "there were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded" when she did it. She started cooperating with the Morton book in 1991, at that point she had overcome her bulimia, she and Charles had been living separate lives and she had had three extra-marital, although not necessarily sexual, dalliances - the RPO, James Hewitt and James Gilbey. Perhaps she still had a problem with Charles and Camilla but was she as consumed and bothered by their relationship as she wanted people to believe? My theory is that at that point what Diana was really consumed with was her public image, and when it seemed like her extra-marital dalliances or other negative/scandalous things may become public, she made a preemptive strike and exposed negative things about her marriage and life as a royal to lay the groundwork in the event any misdeeds on her part became public and she wanted it to be deemed that she was in an untenable situation and victimized.

Bingo! :flowers: That was it exactly. She was laying the groundwork to 'explain away' and excuse the fact that the wife of the British heir to the throne was, in effect, 'sleeping around'. She initiated a diversionary action that proved wildly successful. She gauged the public's gullibility to perfection and calibrated her stories to pitch-perfect delivery. All her life she needed only to smile and she could wrest her way. She did it with the vast majority (or a significant slice) of the British public then, and even still.

1991 was when she dumped James Hewitt so the idea that he could get involved in a 'tell-all' book unless she got her version of events out there first to divert attention from her own affair/s is a good presumption.

The tabloids were circling. Rumors were rife. Royal servants may sign privacy agreements but they do talk amongst themselves. Tittle-tattle made the rounds. It was only a matter of time before the seamy details broke surface.
 
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People on Diana's side ignore how painful it must have been for Charles to be married to woman who was not truthful and could not be intimate with him. (If you love someone you should be honest with them.)

They tend to minimize the impact of her affairs had on Charles and how devastating it was to him, both as a man and as POW to have a wife that was unfaithful.

We do not know who broke their wedding vows first.

The sheer scandal of the adultery, were it to ever break, must have made Charles quake. :ermm: This was his wife, the Princess of Wales, the future Queen. Would there have been a constitutional crisis? The scandal breaking in any other way than the way Diana shepherded it into the public's consciousness, could this have toppled the monarchy? Had the response to the knowledge of Diana's adultery, to the extent that paternity of one of her sons could be questioned, have turned on Diana in such a way that divorce would have been demanded by the public?

It always amuses (even though it's sad) that Diana completely took the onus off of herself. It was really a very neat trick. Diana knew how to survive, if nothing else.
 
It always amuses (even though it's sad) that Diana completely took the onus off of herself. It was really a very neat trick. Diana knew how to survive, if nothing else.


She'd learned that early on....very young.



LaRae
 
There's some evidence that Charles and Camilla were 'more than friends' in 1980. Andrew Parker-Bowles was Aide-de-Camp to Lord Soames, when the latter was Governor-General of southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) in 1979. When Zimbabwe became independent, Prince Charles was at the independence ceremonies, with Camilla as his hostess. By this time, Andrew Parker-Bowles had returned to the UK. According to Tina Brown, Charles and Camilla spent their time on the flight in a private cabin.

"Emotional affair" is a biased phrase. Charles and Camilla were friends. And here we are. This is the stuff of novels, of plays, of conjecture. Human nature. There is no 'truth' here. Only facts, subject to interpretation. Character. Known habits. Motivations and intentions are difficult to assess. Inevitably, there will be different riffs on the theme.
 
There's some evidence that Charles and Camilla were 'more than friends' in 1980. Andrew Parker-Bowles was Aide-de-Camp to Lord Soames, when the latter was Governor-General of southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) in 1979. When Zimbabwe became independent, Prince Charles was at the independence ceremonies, with Camilla as his hostess. By this time, Andrew Parker-Bowles had returned to the UK. According to Tina Brown, Charles and Camilla spent their time on the flight in a private cabin.

There is a very simple explanation.

They were friends.

Camilla helped Charles during his despondency in 1979/1980 when Lord Mountbatten was killed.

Lord Mountbatten was killed on August 27, 1979.

Charles returned the favor on/around April 15, 1980.

Andrew Parker Bowles was having an affair with Charlotte Hambro the daughter of Lord Christopher Soames. Andrew was already in Rhodesia and Charlotte joined Andrew.

Camilla needed an excuse and passage to Rhodesia and Charles was willing to help.

When Camilla arrived to Rhodesia, Charlotte's mother sent Charlotte back to the U.K.

fyi, Charlotte's daughter attended the day care where Diana worked. Diana made Charlotte's daughter a bridesmaid.
 
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Clearly these Xs should not have ever been friends, especially if one's partner is threatened by the relationship, which in this case, turned out to be true.
 
When the marriage broke up, Charles resumes his friendship. After a year or so the friendship turned romantic.
 
When the marriage broke up, Charles resumes his friendship. After a year or so the friendship turned romantic.

Then why was Camilla having weekly phone calls with a tabloid reporter about the marriage of Charles and Diana beginning in 1982 and ending in 1992 if there was no involvement between Charles and Camilla?
 
Let's stay on topic which is Charles and Diana...not Camilla.
 
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