Charles and Diana

[HistoryGirl]

Originally Posted by Lee-Z

Can I just say that i hope that Charles and Diana's children and grandchildren never read this thread; if people talked about my parents this way without any of them personally knowing my parents or the complete facts, I'd be really really angry...

just my 2cts

Agreed. It must be so embarrassing, downright hurtful, and infuriating to hear people debate something they have no first-hand experience with and deciding who the 'good' person was and who the 'bad' guy was. I don't believe they do think about it often to be honest.

[Queen Camilla]

Originally Posted by Curryong

Camilla had a family, but both her children were sent away to boarding school as children. Tom in particular has said he was sent away early.

Some reports states Laura did not go to boarding school.

The boarding school that Laura went to only accepts children 10 years or older. Laura turn 10 in 1988.

Another thing that points to 1988 as the start of C&C's relationship.

[Osipi]

As someone earlier mentioned a book by a valet in service to the PoW and his tenure as a member of the Wales household early in the marriage, the book is "Royal Service: My Ten Years As Valet To Prince Charles" by Stephen Barry.

It keeps cropping up about the fact that very early on in the marriage, Diana did some housecleaning and removed staff and friends that were close to Charles. Not sure about the dog. To me, this action so early on in the marriage shows me that Diana was very insecure in her relationship with her husband and felt threatened by anyone who might have a closer relationship and understanding of a man whom she believed should put her first and foremost in his life about everything. Charles was able to keep and maintain a close friendship with the Parker-Bowles after Camilla married Andrew and IIRC, Charles also enlisted the aid of Camilla to help Diana adjust to the idea of royal marriage after the engagement. Charles' circle of friends was drastically culled after the marriage. Diana resented the staff whose job was to "do" for Charles as she felt it was "her job now". I could stretch this a bit further and say that I've seen evidence that Diana also resented the Prince of Wales job as it took him away from her far more than she liked. In short, I think these resentments from the beginning were the seeds that eventually strangled the marriage. It happens.

Over the years as they grew further and further apart, from experience I can tell you that they became more and more what marriage counselors call "married singles". Each gravitated to their own personal lives and more and more the marriage, in reality, was one "in name only".

There is no fault to lay at any one person's door as they both did what they felt was right at the time although a huge mistake was to let the public in on it. Sometimes I think the "War of the Wales" was perhaps the world's first glimpse into reality shows. Rather than having there be "Diana's side" and "Charles' side" and a cast of external characters playing a role, perhaps we should be as a marriage counselor is trained to be and look at the marriage itself to see where the cracks were.

[Lee-Z]

Originally Posted by Queen Camilla

Again what about Camilla's family, children and grandchildren.

I feel exactly the same about/for Camilla and her family, but as this thread is about Charles and Diana, I didn't mention Camilla...

[Jacknch]

Could we get back on topic and try to avoid going off onto needless tangents? It would also be appreciated if we could avoid getting snarky with one another by using a discussion thread to promote one royal whilst dismissing another - it dimishes the enjoyment of others reading the thread. Thank you.

[TLLK]

I believe that the faculty and staff at the boys' school attempted to limit their access to newspapers, magazines, and television during the War of the Wales. It's a shame that their parents lost sight of the fact that their sons would be impacted by their remarks to the press regarding the state of their marriage.

[HistoryGirl]

^True. It really is a shame when parents lose themselves in their own problems and forget that their role as parents should always take precedence when the children are being raised.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

Originally Posted by HistoryGirl

I think the most damaging thing was not what she did to the monarchy, even though it was substantial, but the lack of awareness as to what giving that interview and inviting the press into her marriage would do to her children. He media were already speculating, Diana and Charles were both quite immature, in my opinion, for stoking the fires so to speak.

I agree theres lots of blame for both of them there, separation and divorce bring out the worst in people, and royals are no exception. But with the palace & others lying to us for almost a decade about the marriage, it left Diana few options.

I think Charles should have taken a page out of the Queens book and stayed quiet, the Dimbleby book and interview were a disaster for him, the BRF was always playing catch up when it comes to media, and silence would have given them the chance for Diana to make a misstep and shoot herself in the foot.

[HistoryGirl]

It is a really tough situation, however, she did have other options. Keeping quiet and divorcing him was one. I think the press would've outed the affair eventually. I can only speak for myself, but I couldn't care less whether they 'lied' about their marriage. I'm rather traditional with that stuff though. I believe that it's not anyone's business what happens between people in a marriage, good or bad. However, I can see that some people feel exceedingly attached to public figures and want to know everything about them.

[Duch_Luver_4ever]

It would have been interesting to see if the affair would have been outed before she could have divorced him. People forget sometimes that for most of the marriage it was the opinion that they couldn't get divorced, that it would trigger the whole abdication crisis like Edward the VIII. Also she desperately didn't want to get divorced with her family history, it was the Queen that pretty much forced them into it.

Shame that she hadn't used her regal power earlier in the marriage to straighten them out.

Thats why I think the "War of the Wales" got so ugly, everyone thought they were stuck in the situation, so I think they underestimated how much damage could be done in the press, and it was only at the end, once it as bad as it did, did they determine that divorce had to be better than this.

[HistoryGirl]

^Youre right. I think a good rule of thumb to remember is that when it comes to the personal, involving the press is always a bad idea.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Duch_Luver_4ever

Also she desperately didn't want to get divorced with her family history, it was the Queen that pretty much forced them into it.

Source please? Like an actually quote from a book or link to a news article please.

[Osipi]

I definitely recall reading in various sources that after the Panorama interview, the Queen had had enough and advised both Charles and Diana to divorce. The one source that I could come up with is from the NY Times dated December 20, 1995.

Queen Urges Prince Charles And Diana to Divorce Soon - NYTimes.com

[Mirabel]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I definitely recall reading in various sources that after the Panorama interview, the Queen had had enough and advised both Charles and Diana to divorce. The one source that I could come up with is from the NY Times dated December 20, 1995.

Queen Urges Prince Charles And Diana to Divorce Soon - NYTimes.com

Yes, I read the same thing.
Diana didn't want a divorce but the whole interview backlash backed her into a corner, and the Queen decided enough was enough.

And really, two of her other children (and her sister) had divorced, and the monarchy hadn't crumbled; she was probably right that a divorce couldn't possible make things worse. Everything did calm down once it happened.

[Jacknch]

When the prime-minister of the day, John Major, announced in Parliament that Charles and Diana were to separate, I recall his statement saying that there was not plan/intention to divorce and that their constitutional roles remain unaffected:

A Day That Shook The World: Charles and Diana separate | History | Lifestyle | The Independent

Heaven knows what was going on between the separation and the eventual divorce, but for whatever reason Charles and Diana seemed reluctant to take the next step by divorcing until after the Panorama interview when it became quite obvious that the "towards zero" moment had arrived and there was really no option for them.

There were newspaper reports at the time using phrases such as "Queen asks/tells them to divorce" etc and the impression I got was that she was fed up with it all and that it was in everyone's best interests (not least of all the British public suffering under mountains of speculation from the media).

[Queen Claude]

Diana did not want the divorce and the Queen "ordered" it but at the same time Diana's actions contributed greatly to the Queen making that decision. IIRC Charles wanted a divorce and had been lobbying his mother for years for her approval to get a divorce, I doubt if Diana was unaware of this. I suspect that Diana thought that she was "safe" from the Queen granting Charles' wish because he was the heir but then it turns out that was a big miscalculation on her part.

[Lumutqueen]

Thanks Osipi, Mirabel and Jack!

I don't often stray into this discussion :)

[AdmirerUS]

JMO, but at some point I think we all realized there was not a path forward without divorce. Both clearly were heading in directions that had nothing to do with the other and both clearly wanted to have relationships with others going forward.
While the feud between them had abated somewhat, and they were united behind the boys, they were completely out of one another's worlds. They had simply married the wrong person. The Queen's announcement acknowledged that.
And the only way for either to move forward was without the other. A shame that they had married, but there it was.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Diana Charles or both of them impacted their children with the use of the media. I think its telling that William doesn't parade his kids in front of a crop of photographers in his play area. Most of the photos of the kids are taken by their mother or by one person not a large group.

[ROYAL NORWAY]

As former staffers, experts and other members here have said several times: The Queen always tried to help Diana and she took her side over Charles until the famous the 1995 interview.

And when it comes to the divorce in 1996: I saw a pretty reliable documentary for approximately 10 years ago wher a former staffer said that the Queen was persuaded by a bishop who was close to Charles (I don't remember whom) to agree on a divorce.

The Queen then said that she did not understand how Charles could just give it up, but she agreed with the bishop when he told her that Charles and Diana were very different and that the dispute between them damaged the monarchy and the kids. She then sent them the letters.

The same was also said by a former private/press secretary on the BBC during the Diamond Jubilee in 2012.

I don't understand what I'm doing on this thread, and I hope this is my last visit to the Diana section of the forum.