Charles and Diana

[Pranter]

That's true, and I think, even more that Diana had no taste for country life. Certainly not at 19 or 20.

I don't see that she had no taste for country life....I don't think she had a taste for life in the country with the BRF (seasonally) and of course as things broke down she desired even less to be in a house full of the BRF at the same time.


LaRae

 

[Denville]

I've not seen any taste for country life in her. She didn't care for country sports, She was bored stiff at places like Balmoral where it rains all the time and there's nothing to do if you aren't into walking or shooting..
I don't think she liked Highgrove all that much and only brought the kids there, as time went on, and then stayed in her room most of the weekend...
Im sure that if at 20 or so she had met some farmer type of guy who offered her a life in the country, with a farm or estate and a life of taking the kids to the pony club, and walking through the mud in her wellies, she would have NOT been interested! Maybe when she was older...

I think she wanted it all to end. How can one do it when one was in too deep?

What did she want to end? Her marriage? Her affair with J Hewitt? Charles' affair with Camilla?

 

[COUNTESS]

I, think, and it is just opinion, if Charles had stopped seeing and caring about Camilla, she would have dropped what she was doing and worked into the idea of putting together the marriage. Camilla wasn't an affair, she was the love of his life. No woman will put up with that.

 

[Mermaid1962]

From what I remember, she cooled it with Hewitt for awhile but got in touch with him again when he went to the Gulf.

She dumped Hewitt when he returned from the Middle East in 1991.

She also was with Gilbey in 1989.

In other words she was having two affairs at the same time.

 

[Denville]

I, think, and it is just opinion, if Charles had stopped seeing and caring about Camilla, she would have dropped what she was doing and worked into the idea of putting together the marriage. Camilla wasn't an affair, she was the love of his life. No woman will put up with that.

If you mean Diana, yes I think that if Charles had stopped Seeing Camilla, Di would have given up any man she was with (perhaps not immediately) but she would have given the marriage another try, but I think it woudl still have failed. Not so much because Cam was loved by Charles but because he and Diana just didn't hit it off...
ANd I think that Charles did love Cam, and it was hard for him to give her up and even if he had say broken off thte affair with her in the late 80s, he would still have thought about her. By the later 80s Im not sure if Di had matured enough to make the best of her marriage.. maybe, she had. But I think even if Camill had broken with Charles and moved to Austraila, Charles would have always had some feelings for her..and it would not have changed the fact that he and Diana had little in common and had differnet opposing temperaments.

From what I remember, she cooled it with Hewitt for awhile but got in touch with him again when he went to the Gulf.

She and Hewitt broke up in I think 88/89 or so because he had insisted on going to Germany for some army training and she had wanted him to stay home. She was flirting with J Gilbey, then when she had that phone call with him, that was overheard. Im not sure if she and he were lovers, I think she confided in him and he wanted to take the affair further but I dont think that Diana was so much involved as he was...
Then when Hewitt was posted to the Gulf, she and he renewed their affair for a while.. but I think she grew nervous about his indiscretion and broke off with him...
In her call to Gilbey she refers to J Hewitt as costing her a fortune, and as if the affair were over and she had grown cool on him.. I think she had cared about Hewitt, but had found that he was pretty shallow and selfish, and had been hurt and angry that he insisted on leaving for Germany.. Then when he was in danger in the Gulf she had a bit of renewal of emotion towards him, but He was untrustworthy, and had been throwing out hints to journalists about his affair and she must have been scared that he would go further, esp if offered money..

I think that if in the late 80s Diana and Chas had decided to give their marriage another go, it would only have worked if they had really lowered their expectations. I think that Diana would have had to accept that she was never probalby going to be as cared for By Charles as he had for Camilla.. and that he'd always have a torch for her. And they would both have had to accept that they had not got much in common and that they woudl have to watch their tempers etc and perhaps not spend a lot of time togehter but try and find some common interests and make the best of them, rather than hoping for "great love."

 

[Curryong]

In other words their entire temperaments would have had to change. I agree that with very adaptable, pragmatic, rather placid people, settling for that sort of marriage might have worked.

However, neither Charles nor Diana were very adaptable and Diana wasn't the sort of woman who would have thought to herself "Well, out of sight out of mind. Camilla's in Australia and we are never likely to see her again except momentarily perhaps if she turns up at a reception on tour. Must make sure we aren't at Highgrove when she and Andrew have a holiday in England."

Diana was the sort who would have been torturing herself night and day even if Camilla was at the other ends of the earth, if she'd died, even. 'Does he still think about her? Does he phone her sometimes in Australia? I wonder whether somehow they're writing to each other?'

She wouldn't have been able to let sleeping dogs lie and so it would never have worked, IMHO!

 

[Lee-Z]

I, think, and it is just opinion, if Charles had stopped seeing and caring about Camilla, she would have dropped what she was doing and worked into the idea of putting together the marriage. Camilla wasn't an affair, she was the love of his life. No woman will put up with that.

in my opinion, P.Charles is not the emotional kind (none of the BRF, imo) and would have put his official marriage first (as is your "duty" when you marry); imo he did end things with Camilla before Diana was in the picture and didn't intend to go back to Camilla and really intended to make things work with Diana.
However, the difference in personality between Diana and Charles were that large that neither even understood where the other one was coming from, and gradually the drifted more apart instead of coming closer.

And if you're in a situation like that, i can imagine you try to find strength and support with people who do understand you, and they both did; it doesn't matter who actually ended up with who first physically, they both drifted away simultanously...

Had they only known eachother better before the marriage, I think the difference in personalities would have turned out too big, but I'm glad they did get together because I think P.William and Harry are the best of both worlds and are great assets to the BRF.

just my 2 cts

 

[Denville]

I woudnt agree about Will and Harry, but I think that you're right in the main..

I don't believe that Charles is unemotional, per se. I think he does not SHOW his emotions much, but that does not mean he doesn't have them and I think he loved Camilla deeply in a quiet "good friends" way always. (And there was a sexual passion).
but I agree that he DID end things with her and intended to make a good marriage with Diana and make things work. I think he was fond of her and very attracted to her physicially and he was willing to "fall in love" in his way, even if she was never quite the same to him as Camilla. But of course he didn't know her well.. and he didn't realise I think how much strain marriage put her under and how OTT she would become once that strain hit.
I think that there were fragilities In Diana's mind and psychology that marriage "opened up", probably her fears of ending up like her parents.. and the enormous public strain of being on show all the time.. it all cracked her wide open...

SO I think from very early on, it was hard for him to give up thinking of Camilla and wondering why on earth Di was so upset and tearful and angry all the time..why she didn't seem to like things she had liked before they married, why she was so stubbornly unwilling to learn about things, either his intellectual interests or even the work she had to do...
So I'm sure he thought about Cam a lot and probably phoned up at times to talk to someone who understood him and who was cheerful and not in tears...
and of course that impacted on the marriage to Diana. And she was the type who would always problaby find it hard to put aside jealousy.. SHe was problaby always sure that Charles was thinking of Camilla, phoning her.. Soon it was "hes probably sneaking off to see her"...and "oh why do we live so close to the bloody woman, he is problably off with her right now when he says he's gone to a business meeting in X"...

And that often drives a husband or wife to infidelity.. They get so fed up of being accused of being unfaithful or "still in love with an old girlfriend" that in the end they DO go and sleep with them...

when you add bulimia to that, and post natal depresson, it si hardly surprising that it was a hell of a difficult relationship for anyone to negotiate...

 

[Denville]

In other words their entire temperaments would have had to change. I agree that with very adaptable, pragmatic, rather placid people, settling for that sort of marriage might have worked.


She wouldn't have been able to let sleeping dogs lie and so it would never have worked, IMHO!

I was working on the idea that if they said "lets give things another go, let's put aside our other lovers, make some changes, see a marriage guidance counslloer"
But I agree that I think ti would stil have been unlikely to work. I think that by the later 80s they had gotten angry with each other, it was hard to even be pleasant.. And If Say Cam had gone abroad, and Diana had say Given up Hewitt.. I think in the end they would have been back in the same mess again, even if they tried. (and I think they both WOULD try).

Diana was older, Diana had developed by then. She had new interests that were more and more unlike the RF's.. She was into keep fit, tennis, charities like AIDS. She had an urban lifestyle and friends In the Celeb world that she enjoyed seeing. She was trying in her way to learn about things, took her charity work more and more seriously... but she did it HER way not their way.

Charles ad the RF remained old fashioned and country oriented.
I can sort of imagine Diana watching Charles digging in the garden and telling her the Latin names of flowers and plants and her struggling to maintain a show of interest...
And I suspect that they would still iriritate each other and there would be arguments that she'd promised to go to a flower show and here she was all dressed up to go for lunch in town with Tim Nice but Dim.. and Or that he had promised to go to an Aids Ballet benefit and he was trying to get out of it and watch a play on TV...
and I think that in time they would botht have ended up confiding in a new friend who might well become a lover..
Maybe Charles would not find a woman who was as close to him as Camilla, if Cam were out of the picture, but I think he would certainly be likely to find someone to talk to, who shared his interests.. and who sympathised. And Diana too, I think in the early years of her marriage, she confided in Barry Manakee, even if there was not any affair going on but the need to have someone kindly and supportive, who understands and shares some of the things you like, and who can offer sympathy when you are unhappy in a marriage, is strong...

 

[AdmirerUS]

I believe otherwise; that neither could or would try in an effective way to work it out.
Many have posted here about Diana's inability to be in a marriage without "love" as she saw it. She could not share her husband. And I don't think any amount of counseling would have led her away from that need.
And Charles was not inclined to see himself as the problem. In fact, he appeared unable to understand what romantic love had to do with a mature royal marriage. I always thought he saw marriage for show in his business. He completely understood that the only relationships that could be secure and also support him we those with a tight group of friends, with whom Diana did not fit for many reasons.
They wanted different and incompatible things from marriage. Counseling would not change that. JMO.

 

[Denville]

I don't believe that Charles was as "cold blooded" as you appear to. I think he wasn't deeply in love with Diana but he was fond of her and hoped that their marriage would be a happy one..
And if they had "tried again" I would expect that he would have stopped seeing Camilla and Diana would have broken with any boyfriend she had. But I agree that I don't believe it would have worked, with the best of intentions...

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

How Diana undertook a series of ill-fated affairs  | Daily Mail Online

 

[Roslyn]

What's going on? This book is old. Why is it being re-issued? Is there new material in this version?

I'm the first to enjoy a good account of Diana's affairs and her hypocrisy, but I don't understand why the same material is being repeated now, so many years later.

 

[Nico]

What's going on? This book is old. Why is it being re-issued? Is there new material in this version?

I'm the first to enjoy a good account of Diana's affairs and her hypocrisy, but I don't understand why the same material is being repeated now, so many years later.

Here's a clue : we are in august.

 

[Osipi]

And to add what Nico has said, there isn't really a source for new information as the person being written about has been dead for 19 years. She still sells.

 

[Katrianna]

Yep, it's Aug. and time to bring out some new and previously written articles about Diana, especially the Daily Fail. Richard Kay started about 6 weeks ago, reminding all the readers that he and Diana were "besties" and now Ken Wharfe is dredging his book up again for more income. ;-).
I was cleaning a closet out earlier today and came across Sarah Bradford's book about the Queen. There was the section about Charles and Diana. It stated that Charles inner circle of friends generally approved of his courting Diana and them marrying. The only friends that didn't were Lord and Lady Romsey, they felt Diana wouldn't fit in with the Royal Family and was unsuitable for royal life.
Diana's grandmother, Lady Fermoy was completely against the marriage, she felt Diana and Charles were completely incompatible. In an interview very late in Lady Fermoy's life, she stated she spoke to Johnny Spencer in order to try to have him discourage Diana from any thoughts or plans to marry Charles. Johnny supposedly told his mother-in-law that if anyone ever attempted to discourage Diana or deter her from doing what she had her mind and sights set on, she was horrible to live with and the "terror" went on and on.
Lady Fermoy also stated that she thought of speaking to Charles about the situation and her concerns, but stated she didn't because Charles had made up his mind to ask Diana to marry him and he wouldn't be talked out of it.
I can't state that the above is totally true, but it blows the story of Lady Fermoy and QEQM conspiring to marry off each of their grandchildren to one another.

 

[Denville]

Really? It does not give a very nice portrait of Diana does it that her own father apparently said (AND to his mother in law) that if Anyone tried to stop her doing something she was impossible to live with and it seems a holy terror that they were all afraid of.
All rather sounds liek the "Diana was a loony" slant.
I certianly dont believe that the Spencers or Lady F conspired or tried to push teh marriage, becuase I think that the Spencers didn't care enough and Lady Fermoy probably was mildly in favour but hardly PUSHING for it. But I dont believe in these stories that came up years and years later that "Oh we told C that it wasn't a good idea" or "We tried to stop Di marrying him but we couldn't or felt we couldn't."
These stories have been around, that Lady Ferm thought her granddaughter was not suitaible or was a downright crazy person, and "wanted to stop it" but didn't or did try and couldn't, or wished that she had tried...
And I dont beleive that the QM did anything much, I think she hoped for Charles to get married, and probalby thought that Di was a nice girl but I dont beleive she was very active..

What's going on? This book is old. Why is it being re-issued? Is there new material in this version?

I'm the first to enjoy a good account of Diana's affairs and her hypocrisy, but I don't understand why the same material is being repeated now, so many years later.

why is it hypocrisy? If Charles was having an affair, i dont see why she should not. I'd agree it was foolish of her to get involved with married men, or rather to get involved in affairs that became public knowledge..

 

[Nico]

why is it hypocrisy? If Charles was having an affair, i dont see why she should not. I'd agree it was foolish of her to get involved with married men, or rather to get involved in affairs that became public knowledge..

Well the hypocrisy was "we were three in this marriage", as they were, obviously, a bit more ...

 

[Pranter]

If you believe Diana's view that Charles left the marriage first seeking outside companionship...then it is a legitimate statement. She admitted to her own affairs in the same interview.


LaRae

 

[Lee-Z]

I'm sure from her point of view that was her truth at the time..

 

[Iluvbertie]

why is it hypocrisy? If Charles was having an affair, i dont see why she should not. I'd agree it was foolish of her to get involved with married men, or rather to get involved in affairs that became public knowledge..

A very simple reason why she should not have an affair. Read the Treason Act.

Unless she cried rape she was actively aiding and abetting men in committing treason. She, as the wife of the heir to the throne, agreed to a different standard to every other woman (bar the wife of the monarch who has the same standard). The Treason Act is very clear - the wife of the monarch and the wife of the heir to the throne can only sleep with their husbands. It is why Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard were executed - treason by having affairs, why the wife of George I was locked away for years and years and why George IV wanted to prove his wife was having an affair.

She committed treason - and even admitted it when she admitted having an affair.

Quite simple really.

There was even talk of taking Hewitt to trial based on her evidence but they also realised that she would have to stand trial as well so dropped that possibility.

 

[Curryong]

I hardly think that Diana (or Hewitt for that matter) was thinking of the Treason Act, or of centuries old double standards with regard to Kings and their consorts, when they were falllng in love.

If the authorities had evoked the Treason Act with regard to Hewitt they would not only have caused Charles and the BRF to be the butt of world-wide ridicule, (Anne Boleyn, give me a break!) but may very well have exposed Charles's activities with Mrs PB and his sleeping with the wife of a fellow officer. Not the favourable outcome they would have wished for!

 

[Nico]

We can say that the Hypocrisy is also in the the fact that Charles and Camilla are relentlessly blamed for their affair, Charles maligned for breaking his vows BUT Diana more or less gets a free pass for breaking the same vows, because "she was in love" and "your husband is an adulterer so let's go girl".
Double standard big time folks !

 

[Osipi]

If there is one thing that I wish that both Diana and Charles had as the marriage disintegrated, it would be that they could call it quits and end the marriage like just about everyone else in the world.

Staying together for crown and country is as bad as staying together for the sake of the children. It just makes everyone miserable. A lot of problems and affairs and agony could have been avoided if there was a Royal No-Fault Divorce package back then.

 

[VictoriaB]

We can say that the Hypocrisy is also in the the fact that Charles and Camilla are relentlessly blamed for their affair, Charles maligned for breaking his vows BUT Diana more or less gets a free pass for breaking the same vows, because "she was in love" and "your husband is an adulterer so let's go girl".
Double standard big time folks !

Agree Nico.

I also find it hypocritical for Diana to bat her lashes at the camera and complain about there being three in her marriage when she had no such qualms about being the third person in the marriages of Oliver Hoare or Will Carling (and yes, I do believe she had an affair with Carling).

 

[Dee Anna]

There are three sides to every marital story ..... his, hers and the truth!

Although the presence of Camilla was very obvious from the outset .... down to attending polo matches / outdoor persuits Charles was taking part in with Diana back in 1980 .....

 

[Katrianna]

Really? It does not give a very nice portrait of Diana does it that her own father apparently said (AND to his mother in law) that if Anyone tried to stop her doing something she was impossible to live with and it seems a holy terror that they were all afraid of.
All rather sounds liek the "Diana was a loony" slant.
I certianly dont believe that the Spencers or Lady F conspired or tried to push teh marriage, becuase I think that the Spencers didn't care enough and Lady Fermoy probably was mildly in favour but hardly PUSHING for it. But I dont believe in these stories that came up years and years later that "Oh we told C that it wasn't a good idea" or "We tried to stop Di marrying him but we couldn't or felt we couldn't."
These stories have been around, that Lady Ferm thought her granddaughter was not suitaible or was a downright crazy person, and "wanted to stop it" but didn't or did try and couldn't, or wished that she had tried...
And I dont beleive that the QM did anything much, I think she hoped for Charles to get married, and probalby thought that Di was a nice girl but I dont beleive she was very active..


why is it hypocrisy? If Charles was having an affair, i dont see why she should not. I'd agree it was foolish of her to get involved with married men, or rather to get involved in affairs that became public knowledge..

I think the point Bradford was trying to make was to debunk the story put out by the media during the heady days before and long after the Wales marriage that Lady Fermoy and QEQM were behind the entire Charles and Diana matchmaking and subsequent marriage. I've never read about the true source of that story.
I tend to think that Diana could be a real bearcat if she was denied or questioned about her choices. I included Bradford because I tend to find her more credible than some of the other authors especially one I cannot mention because if she reads criticism of her works, she has her lawyer notify forum Administrators that she will sue for defamation.
As for Diana's hypocrisy, she did do herself a great deal of harm, by admitting on Panorama that she did have affairs also. Up until that time she was the beautiful young mother with two adorable sons who was betrayed by her husband with his mistress despite his wife's love and devotion. After her admission to having affair(s), it made her statement of three in their marriage to "there was 3/4 in our marriage". I remember sitting back in my chair and shaking my head. My phone rang and it was my late mother saying, "Diana just did a very stupid thing." Again, her staff told her not to do the interview on Panorama and she didn't listen and went ahead. I always view that interview as a real disaster for her.

 

[Skippyboo]

A very simple reason why she should not have an affair. Read the Treason Act.



Unless she cried rape she was actively aiding and abetting men in committing treason. She, as the wife of the heir to the throne, agreed to a different standard to every other woman (bar the wife of the monarch who has the same standard). The Treason Act is very clear - the wife of the monarch and the wife of the heir to the throne can only sleep with their husbands. It is why Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard were executed - treason by having affairs, why the wife of George I was locked away for years and years and why George IV wanted to prove his wife was having an affair.



She committed treason - and even admitted it when she admitted having an affair.



Quite simple really.



There was even talk of taking Hewitt to trial based on her evidence but they also realised that she would have to stand trial as well so dropped that possibility.

We still are seeing Hewitt as Harry's father comments 20 years later. Imagine if William was a girl and Harry is the direct heir. It was okay for the Royal men to sleep around because any illegitimate child wasn't in the line of succession but for the Royal wife it was a no no because that child would be a Royal. DNA testing is a recent thing.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[COUNTESS]

You are right, Diana should have never done the interview. She wanted to garner sympathy, but opened the door for criticism. What everyone misses here, is Charles was in love with Camilla. He needed a wife that was acceptable to the archaic ways of the RF. He like Diana, she was young, pretty and fun. He hardly knew her. "Whatever love is". She married him expecting a husband, she got a partial one. Those who believe Camilla was out of his life then, are quite gullible. He was then, he is now in love with the woman he has married. Diana wasn't fighting against an affair, she was fighting for a husband. Her affairs were foolish and hurt her. She never used her brain when it came to these things. But, from beginning to end Charles had his way. 20 years later, when she could hardly defend herself, since she is dead, his life is just fine.

 

[Curryong]

We can say that the Hypocrisy is also in the the fact that Charles and Camilla are relentlessly blamed for their affair, Charles maligned for breaking his vows BUT Diana more or less gets a free pass for breaking the same vows, because "she was in love" and "your husband is an adulterer so let's go girl".
Double standard big time folks !

No-one is denying that Diana had affairs with married people, and she behaved badly in so doing. So did Charles and Camilla, both of whom were married.

However Iluvbertie pointed out that Hewitt (a single man) could have been brought to trial under the Treason Act. If we are discussing hypocrisy, then if Hewitt had ever been brought to trial (ridiculous in the modern age) then questions would surely have been asked by the media as to why Mrs Parker Bowles shouldnt have been subject to the same treatment. That was probably the reason, if such a charge was ever seriously discussed in Hewitt's case, it was dropped.