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  #3441  
Old 01-24-2021, 05:53 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
I remember when they got engaged People magazine wrote an article about how she was a "commoner". You got the impression they met at a local mall rather than she had royal blood as well.
She was a commoner... She came from an upper class family but in the UK only the holder of the title is considered noble. and the next bride to marry into the RF came from a family which had "good blood" but no title and not much money....
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  #3442  
Old 01-24-2021, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
I remember when they got engaged People magazine wrote an article about how she was a "commoner". You got the impression they met at a local mall rather than she had royal blood as well.
I've seen some articles from the UK press at the time that imply the same sort of thing, emphasising that she was a nursery teaching assistant and lived in a flat with the girls rather than being a Princess. Technically she was a commoner but some really emphasised the "normal, average girl". No, or barely any mention of the fact that she was an Earl's daughter with close ties to the family.
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  #3443  
Old 01-24-2021, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I've seen some articles from the UK press at the time that imply the same sort of thing, emphasising that she was a nursery teaching assistant and lived in a flat with the girls rather than being a Princess. Technically she was a commoner but some really emphasised the "normal, average girl". No, or barely any mention of the fact that she was an Earl's daughter with close ties to the family.
Compared to previous ladies who had married into the senior RF, she was something of a girl next door... of course she met Charles because of her family connections, she was an Earl's daughter, and lived on a big estate.. but she did have an "ordinary" little job, as a nanny/nursery helper... She lived in a flat in London, she shared with other girls, and did her own housework.. Earls' daughters did by then lead that sort of ordinary life, and didn't necessarily do the Season or lead a glittering social life...or spend their time at balls and buying expensive clothes.. but it was the first time that someone like this had married a senior royal...
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  #3444  
Old 01-24-2021, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I've seen some articles from the UK press at the time that imply the same sort of thing, emphasising that she was a nursery teaching assistant and lived in a flat with the girls rather than being a Princess. Technically she was a commoner but some really emphasised the "normal, average girl". No, or barely any mention of the fact that she was an Earl's daughter with close ties to the family.

It was for the sake of the 'fairytale,' that there was this normalcy silliness. For some reason everyone wanted a fairytale, not a simple union of two people who came from the same background and found each other.


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How did Diana "manipulate him" into marrying her? She could not force him. And at some point was prepared for him not to propose. She was an unsophisticated young woman with romantic notions. If she wanted to be Princess of Wales so badly and keep the title, she would have turned a blind eye to Camilla. Charles needed heirs and wanted them so when he found a young woman besotted with him and he was attracted to her and she had no experience, he felt she was the one. Could Charles have "manipulated her?" Sweet talking and all that.

Diana did go along with a media campaign that put huge pressure on Charles to propose. The media was ape over Diana and Diana saw it as a useful way to help her aspirations along. She wasn't entirely simple; she was from a family that had generations of aspirations towards a legitimate royal connection, via marriage.
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  #3445  
Old 01-24-2021, 10:30 PM
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Diana gave no interviews prior to her engagement to Charles, neither did any of her family. As she had no Press or Comms Secretary as a single woman it's hard to see how she 'went along with the media campaign' in order to marry the Prince of Wales. What was she to do? Deny that they were dating? She said nothing or next to nothing to the reporters who were besieging her daily.

If Charles objected to all the speculation about any coming engagement reaching the level it did all he would have had to do would be to break it off with Diana (and we know he had doubts) and let the Press know that through discreet communications from BP. He was far more able to deal with the British media at fever pitch than a young girl who wasn't used to it, but he did nothing.

So are we to take from his inaction that Charles went along with the Press campaign as well, rather than trust his instincts that he and Diana would be a mismatch and act on them.
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  #3446  
Old 01-24-2021, 10:39 PM
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If Diana really wanted out of the relationship pre-engagement, all she had to do was talk to the media or someone else who would quote her, like her sister did. She had plenty of opportunites to do so as the reporters and cameramen were chasing her everywhere. She could also just have behaved a bit oddly or inappropriately in front of the cameras.
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  #3447  
Old 01-24-2021, 11:06 PM
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Diana wanted to marry Charles. She didn't have another love tucked away in the background. It wasn't Diana who doubted the love she had for her future fiance/husband but Charles was filled with doubts and misgivings about their future match. He didn't love Diana [...]but he just passively went along with things when he could have changed them had he wanted to.
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  #3448  
Old 01-24-2021, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Diana wanted to marry Charles. She didn't have another love tucked away in the background. It wasn't Diana who doubted the love she had for her future fiance/husband but Charles was filled with doubts and misgivings about their future match. He didn't love Diana, [...] but he just passively went along with things when he could have changed them had he wanted to.
Therein lies the difference between Charles and Diana. With Diana being only 19 and of a mind that said she would "keep herself tidy", Diana not only had no idea of what a strong physical relationship involved but also what a strong *emotional* and *mental* close relationship consisted of.

I do believe Charles and Diana had a strong physical pull towards each other and from what I understand, they were very compatible in that area at the beginning of their marriage. Diana found herself pregnant soon enough. What didn't work was they were totally in different worlds emotionally and mentally as, really, they hadn't been involved with each other long enough to form a good, healthy and strong emotional and mental connection.

Perhaps Diana expected Charles to be the knight with undying love always at her side forevermore that worshipped the ground she walked on. Perhaps Charles figured that eventually, with time, Diana would "get" him and come to understand his life, his roles and duties and be everything he ever needed in a consort. Neither one of their expectations were met by that other. Their wants and needs they expected from each other outside of a physical attraction meshed like oil and vinegar
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  #3449  
Old 01-24-2021, 11:38 PM
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Diana was a very young 19. However, Charles was in his early thirties by the time he became engaged to Diana and presumably [...] did know what a strong mental and emotional relationship, where one is completely in tune with one's partner, is all about.

Yet Charles still passively let himself be carried off towards disaster by others, including the media, seemingly incapable of acting on instincts that must have said to him 'This girl is wrong for me. This doesn't feel as it should when you choose a possible future partner in life.'

Charles really could have broken it off with little trouble but negative articles in tabloids about his being an eternal bachelor before it even got to the stage of an engagement.

And I'm not so sure they were physically compatible even early on. In biographies on Charles there are passages about his saying to friends that the wedding night was quite strange, that Diana was 'a poppet, lovely but still a child', and her inexperience with sexual relations might in fact have made things awkward.
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  #3450  
Old 01-25-2021, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
And I'm not so sure they were physically compatible even early on. In biographies on Charles there are passages about his saying to friends that the wedding night was quite strange, that Diana was 'a poppet, lovely but still a child', and her inexperience with sexual relations might in fact have made things awkward.
There was an amusing anecdote in "The Housekeeper's Diary" where Diana and Charles were getting busy and Diana's foot accidentally hit the silent alarm button in the bedroom. Seems like a couple of RPOs got quite an eyeful when they burst into the room that day.

I think there were good times and there were bad times between the two of them during the marriage but they just didn't have the staying power to actively work together to sort things out and compromise. In a marriage you either grow together or you grow apart. With no real solid foundation for a marriage, they didn't have much stability to build on to begin with.

It's all water under the bridge now and Diana is at peace and Charles has moved on and is happy and content in his second marriage.
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  #3451  
Old 01-25-2021, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
If Diana really wanted out of the relationship pre-engagement, all she had to do was talk to the media or someone else who would quote her, like her sister did. She had plenty of opportunites to do so as the reporters and cameramen were chasing her everywhere. She could also just have behaved a bit oddly or inappropriately in front of the cameras.
Why woudl she do anything like that? If she was unsure about Charles, the best thing to do would have been to quietly refuse another date...There was no need for inappropriate behaviour
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  #3452  
Old 01-25-2021, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Diana gave no interviews prior to her engagement to Charles, neither did any of her family. As she had no Press or Comms Secretary as a single woman it's hard to see how she 'went along with the media campaign' in order to marry the Prince of Wales. What was she to do? Deny that they were dating? She said nothing or next to nothing to the reporters who were besieging her daily.

If Charles objected to all the speculation about any coming engagement reaching the level it did all he would have had to do would be to break it off with Diana (and we know he had doubts) and let the Press know that through discreet communications from BP. He was far more able to deal with the British media at fever pitch than a young girl who wasn't used to it, but he did nothing.

So are we to take from his inaction that Charles went along with the Press campaign as well, rather than trust his instincts that he and Diana would be a mismatch and act on them.
Diana handled the media very well, but I think that it would have been easier for her to give up Charles than the other way around. The press and public were keen on Diana..and I think if the relationship had suddenly ended, by his doing, there would have been a certain backlash.. that he had toyed with the affections of a young sweet girl whom everyone loved.. If Diana had ended it there would have been disappointment because the press did clearly see her as a wonderful future princess.. who would photograph well, and be charming and lively and delightful, and would give them great stories... but it would not be as bad as Charles ditching her...
Ideally, if they had had less press attention, during the courtship and had a longer time, if they had reached the point of changing their minds, there would have been less of an outcry... But unfortunately, Charles was at the age where he was expected to get married..Diana had a magical x factor that made her attracitve... and The romance was played out under the eyes of the press, and the press and public did "fall in love" with Diana and wanted her to marry him...
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  #3453  
Old 01-25-2021, 10:39 AM
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Diana's ex chef who is all over youtube (Darrin something or other) says it isn't true they didn't love each other at first. They just didn't have a lot in common.
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  #3454  
Old 01-25-2021, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
Diana's ex chef who is all over youtube (Darrin something or other) says it isn't true they didn't love each other at first. They just didn't have a lot in common.
Not quite sure how he'd know. Even if he was working for them from the beginning of their marriage.. i doubt if he saw that much of them or that they'd confide in him...
Having said that I think they were a bit in love.. Diana more than Charles. But I think he did find her attractive, she seemed fun and charming.. Diana had a way of fascinating people and she was trying her best to fascinate Charles so that he would fall for her.. but I think that as he got to know her better he may have become unsure if she was really right for the role of Princess, or that he cared enough for her to make a go of mariage and put Camilla right out of his head… and he got jumpy….
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  #3455  
Old 01-25-2021, 08:47 PM
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I think Diana did put on a mild act to land Charles, like all women (young and older) do and it is clear that she didn't realize just what it would do to her personal life after her real preferences came out and how it would affect the ability for her to get the kind of love that she always wanted out of Charles. She really did think that there was nothing wrong with pretending to love country life, pretending to love charades, or pretending to enjoy his hobbies (or even be interested in learning about them). He never would have proposed if she hadn't put on a front of liking country life and it is clear that she was not completely honest.


As for the media, they were laying pressure on his shoulders thick. They were determinedly trumpeting all of Diana's virtues that made her perfectly suitable and all but outright ordered Charles to marry Diana.I don't think Charles was prepped for that kind of onslaught since his previous relationships were accepted as being over.
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  #3456  
Old 01-26-2021, 05:25 AM
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I agree that the media were putting on pressure.. but it was alos the situation.. He had reached an age where he kind of had to get married. He was ealry 30s.. he had had his time of having fun, dating and being in the Navy. He was doing full time royal duties and I think that it was time he got married and had an heir.. unless he wanted to be a lot older than his bride and his chiildren. So his family once a seemingly suitable bride like Diana came along, put pressure on as well. And because the courtship was well known, though I think Charles tried to keep it discreet, once he had become involved with this young very innocent girl that was so popular with teh media, if he had dropped her, it wold have looked bad, an older sophisticated man, payng court to a girl of sweet nature and innocent demeanor.. and then dropping her abruptly.. so once he'd gotten invovled to a certain extent, it was hard for him to withdraw and this was what Philip pointed out to him, adding that if he let Diana go, he still had to find a wife and would he find anyone else who was so suitable.
Diana I think fooled herself that she was really enjoying everyting about their courtship, and as she so often did, she didn't realise that to do an abrupt volte face wasn't a good idea. She was a volatile person who often reversed in mid jump.. and she never seemed to realise that people DO remember that you said something quite different a short while before.... and that you look foolish if you so frequently swing around violently....
I think that she didn't really admit ot herself until after the marriage that she didn't like Balmoral in the rain and watching Charles at his sports.. and that she HAD signed up for this for life.. It wasn't a movie. she was stuck with it and that Charles was a man set in his ways who wasn't going to change that much.. and that the RF at the time was also very old fashioned and wasn't going to change....
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  #3457  
Old 01-26-2021, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
If Diana really wanted out of the relationship pre-engagement, all she had to do was talk to the media or someone else who would quote her, like her sister did. She had plenty of opportunites to do so as the reporters and cameramen were chasing her everywhere. She could also just have behaved a bit oddly or inappropriately in front of the cameras.
Charles should have thought of the implications of marrying Diana and thought it would be wrong to bring her into a marriage where he did not love her. Once the engagement took place and Diana was living in a royal residence it was difficult to leave.

[...]
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  #3458  
Old 01-28-2021, 02:59 PM
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This thread has been cleaned up and off-topic, speculative and fanciful posts removed.

Please be reminded that references to affairs, love interests, previous relationships, subsequent relationships, Diana's mental health, "what-if" scenarios, comparisons to other royals are off-topic.
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  #3459  
Old Today, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
Charles should have thought of the implications of marrying Diana and thought it would be wrong to bring her into a marriage where he did not love her. Once the engagement took place and Diana was living in a royal residence it was difficult to leave.

[...]
You are assuming that Charles did not love her and she didn't love him either. The proverbial "honeymoon" period showed a somewhat bashful Diana and a Charles that was over the moon in love.

Meeting them on the tarmac of RNZAF Base Wigram was an unforgettable occasion and he was so utterly besotted with her just as one would expect.

I have never understood the rubbish about age as my parents were the same ages when they married and, like everyone else, they had to work at it.

For the first time Charles had someone in his life who loved him just as Diana had someone who loved her first. His pride in the easy acceptance of his wife and his sheer joy at introducing her was contagious. While over 50% of marriages failed, one should not be surprised that theirs did as her parents and Charles younger sister and brother's marriages had as well.

I hate revisionist history. The great conspiracy theory of the cold, hard hearted Prince marrying the naive and innocent young lady as a brood mare sets the stage for their son's paternity to be questioned to this day. Facts don't matter, scandal does. And Harry has had to live with the consequences since he was old enough to understand what infidelity meant.

Words matter. The help they hurt they harm and if people want to put their hands up to subscribing to any particular conspiracy theory should use the caveat IMHO or IMO.
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