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  #3381  
Old 09-13-2020, 04:27 PM
Aristocracy
 
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I think the man she loved "lost her." Khan admitted he loved her but I think just did not want to settle down. He got married some years after Diana died to someone not famous and of his same culture but it only lasted two years. I think Diana and Dodi were fond of each other, I don't think they were in love, they just started dating. Nobody is happy all the time, DIana kept active and at her events was cheerful and enjoyed herself. She had been married since she was 20 and after the separation then divorce she was readjusting. Charles did not marry Camilla immediately after his divorce he waited 8 years so he may have had some readjusting to do as well. Diana shared custody with Charles and I don't think there was any danger of their sons growing away from her.
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  #3382  
Old 09-13-2020, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
Khan said he loved Diana (in various interviews), perhaps he had unrealistic expectations about her and the relationship. If he did not want her and the life was not for him, he should have stopped seeing her. He was apparently content to visit her at KP while she cooked dinners for him and did not want to go public. If he did not want the relationship, he should not have encouraged it.
That's what I meant by saying he regarded her as a trophy.
Not the kind of trophy where he'd parade her around at events, but a secret sort of treasure to gloat over privately.

I don't think he did love her, but he couldn't help but feel flattered by her love for him. (Despite the fact that he knew it wouldn't work out...well, he didn't really want it to work out anyway).
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  #3383  
Old 09-13-2020, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I have to agree that Diana wasn't "downward spiraling" but rather trying to find her footing on an uncertain path. Up until the final divorce decree, she pretty much had things going a certain way as The Princess of Wales. After the divorce, as a single woman and mother, finding a "niche" isn't done overnight.

The first year after a divorce is a tricky time for any of us let alone someone as much in the public eye as Diana was. I do think if she had lived, she would have found where she wanted to be and what she wanted to do and, of course, her boys would always have come first in her life.
Divorce sucks - most of my brothers and sisters have been through it, and my own parents each were divorced prior to marrying each other (in fact, my father was my mother's divorce lawyer, lol). Fortunately in their case, the divorces went pretty smoothly and there were never any issues with the kids, etc. My point is, even though divorce DOES suck, in many ways it's best for the parents (and the kids) - and even though I'm sure Diana was feeling the end of her marriage, it was her opportunity (once she'd recovered) to find the same kind of happiness that Charles did. Her recovering, by the way, does not mean she was in a downward spiral, so I think Robert Lacey might not understand what she was going through. Admittedly, I did NOT follow Diana, but if she was upset, if she was particularly sensitive.....well, of course; she'd just gone through a traumatic experience. Again, not a downward spiral.....it's called being human.
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  #3384  
Old 09-13-2020, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I dont think she was. her affair with Khan which was the best one she had, had become too difficult to maintain and she felt she had to end it. She moved on to Dodi Fayed, who didn't care for her and was courting her at the orders of his father. She may have had a few weeks of fun with him, but he was essentially not interested in her and was ditching his girlfriend to be with her. That was hardly going to end well...I dont think she was all that happy. She was dipping in and out of charity work, she had lost a man she loved, and she knew that she had lost her marriage and her chance of being queen...
She loved her boys and they were very important to her but I think she was worrying that they were being pulled into the Windsor life, and might grow away from her...
As I don't know anything about this Khan, I have to avoid really saying much about him - except, if he DID say that he "could have fixed her"......I don't like that statement. Was he referring to her broken heart?

I have read that Diana was never serious about Dodi, so...even if he wasn't serious about her, they were having a fling. Why not? Well actually, if he had a girlfriend, that's not a good thing......

We're not close enough to state for sure that Diana was happy or not. Most likely she had her ups and downs.........which is to be expected.
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  #3385  
Old 09-13-2020, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
As I don't know anything about this Khan, I have to avoid really saying much about him - except, if he DID say that he "could have fixed her"......I don't like that statement. Was he referring to her broken heart?

I have read that Diana was never serious about Dodi, so...even if he wasn't serious about her, they were having a fling. Why not? Well actually, if he had a girlfriend, that's not a good thing......

We're not close enough to state for sure that Diana was happy or not. Most likely she had her ups and downs.........which is to be expected.
First off, I believe that the statement made by Dr. Khan about "fixing" Diana was because that is what he does professionally. Hasnat Ahmad Khan, FRCS is a British-Pakistani heart and lung surgeon. Its his field of expertise as a cardiac surgeon. Not her "broken" heart in any way. He was devoted to his profession and Diana used to meet him at his apartment and cook for him and spend time with him in the hospital and was sincerely interested in the work he did.

As I mentioned before, Diana did try and manipulate things to the point of getting Dr. Khan a job in his profession in South Africa that didn't probably go down too well with him. "Diana once asked Dr. Christiaan Barnard, the heart transplant pioneer, to help her and her then-sweetheart -- a leading British-based heart surgeon -- move to South Africa, the Sunday Times reported."

https://buffalonews.com/news/diana-s...3611b954d.html

So, no.... the sentiments that Dr. Khan expressed, I believe, were genuine and indicative that he wished he could have been there and done something for her when it was needed.
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  #3386  
Old 09-14-2020, 03:05 AM
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I think Mohammed al-Fayed tried to promote the image of Diana and Dodi as two people who were madly in love, because, as a grieving father, it helped him to think that Dodi had died alongside his soul mate, not a woman with whom he was just having a bit of fun. That's understandable. But I don't think it actually was a great romance. After marrying very young, and having a marriage that'd gone wrong pretty early on, I doubt that Diana was looking to rush into another marriage.
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  #3387  
Old 09-14-2020, 03:39 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
As I don't know anything about this Khan, I have to avoid really saying much about him - except, if he DID say that he "could have fixed her"......I don't like that statement. Was he referring to her broken heart?

I have read that Diana was never serious about Dodi, so...even if he wasn't serious about her, they were having a fling. Why not? Well actually, if he had a girlfriend, that's not a good thing......

We're not close enough to state for sure that Diana was happy or not. Most likely she had her ups and downs.........which is to be expected.
If he did ssay this, he was a heart surgeon and might have been able to operate but I think her injuries were so severe that unless she had been operated on literally immediately, nothing could have saved her...
As for Dodi, he had a girlfriend and they were planning ot marry. He courted Diana because his father pushed him into it.
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  #3388  
Old 09-14-2020, 03:43 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
I think Mohammed al-Fayed tried to promote the image of Diana and Dodi as two people who were madly in love, because, as a grieving father, it helped him to think that Dodi had died alongside his soul mate, not a woman with whom he was just having a bit of fun. That's understandable. But I don't think it actually was a great romance. After marrying very young, and having a marriage that'd gone wrong pretty early on, I doubt that Diana was looking to rush into another marriage.
Possibly there was some "human feeling" in his attempts to believe that Diana and Dodi were in love.. but he must have known that they weren't really in love in any sense. He was the one who had pushed his son into a romance with Diana, ordering him to break off wit his girlfriend.. so IMO it was much more of a cynical desire to convince the world that they had been a happy in love couple.. because of his ambitions to get himself or his family into the Brtish upper classes. He promoted the idea to the world, but he must have known that the romance was at best a very fleeting one...
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  #3389  
Old 09-14-2020, 04:02 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Divorce sucks - most of my brothers and sisters have been through it, and my own parents each were divorced prior to marrying each other (in fact, my father was my mother's divorce lawyer, lol). Fortunately in their case, the divorces went pretty smoothly and there were never any issues with the kids, etc. My point is, even though divorce DOES suck, in many ways it's best for the parents (and the kids) - and even though I'm sure Diana was feeling the end of her marriage, it was her opportunity (once she'd recovered) to find the same kind of happiness that Charles did. Her recovering, by the way, does not mean she was in a downward spiral, so I think Robert Lacey might not understand what she was going through. Admittedly, I did NOT follow Diana, but if she was upset, if she was particularly sensitive.....well, of course; she'd just gone through a traumatic experience. Again, not a downward spiral.....it's called being human.
Diana was a very fragile person emotionally.. and while they'd reached a point where divorce was the only option, she was very ambivalent about it an I think that while she had hoped to get out of the marriage, she still had problems emotional and practical that made her life difficult. She did rush into a romance with Dodi, which was fairly public and which was not likely to end well... She said it was just a summer romance but even so, to find that your boyfriend had a woman he was on the point of marrying is upsetting even if you're not in love with him,.. MA Fayed was exploiting her loneliness by pulling her into this relationship, and if she fully realised it before she died it might have been difficult for her to cope iwht... yet another rejection. And MAF's organisation was so chaotic that they couldnt protect her properly...
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  #3390  
Old 09-14-2020, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
That's what I meant by saying he regarded her as a trophy.
Not the kind of trophy where he'd parade her around at events, but a secret sort of treasure to gloat over privately.

I don't think he did love her, but he couldn't help but feel flattered by her love for him. (Despite the fact that he knew it wouldn't work out...well, he didn't really want it to work out anyway).
I think he did want it to work out but he knew it wouldn't. He didn't plan to meet and fall in love with a semi divorced Princess, He was devoted ot his work and probably that was the main thing in his life. He loved Diana, but it was best for both of them to keep the relationship discreet, as she was married at first and he didn't want public attention. He wanted to go back to Pakistan where he could work for his people there and I think with the best will in the world Diana would have found it hard to adjust to life as a middle class doctors wife... so Khan could see a lot of obstacles...I think as he got to know her better he could see more nad more problems. She was used ot the Publicity of her life and I think he knew she would not really be happy if it was totally gone.. She would not be happy in Pakistan so far away from her sons and from the life she had known...
I think Diana knew on some level that it wouldn't work out either, as a permanent relationship but she was always inclined to be very determined when she fell for a man, and to cling ot a belief that they would find a way to work things out.. so she stayed in the relationship though they did break up on and off.
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  #3391  
Old 09-14-2020, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Diana was a very fragile person emotionally.. and while they'd reached a point where divorce was the only option, she was very ambivalent about it an I think that while she had hoped to get out of the marriage, she still had problems emotional and practical that made her life difficult.


I don't know if Diana truly wished to get out of the marriage.
What she really wanted was to get rid of Camilla, and that wasn't happening.
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  #3392  
Old 09-14-2020, 07:48 AM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
First off, I believe that the statement made by Dr. Khan about "fixing" Diana was because that is what he does professionally. Hasnat Ahmad Khan, FRCS is a British-Pakistani heart and lung surgeon. Its his field of expertise as a cardiac surgeon. Not her "broken" heart in any way. He was devoted to his profession and Diana used to meet him at his apartment and cook for him and spend time with him in the hospital and was sincerely interested in the work he did.

As I mentioned before, Diana did try and manipulate things to the point of getting Dr. Khan a job in his profession in South Africa that didn't probably go down too well with him. "Diana once asked Dr. Christiaan Barnard, the heart transplant pioneer, to help her and her then-sweetheart -- a leading British-based heart surgeon -- move to South Africa, the Sunday Times reported."

https://buffalonews.com/news/diana-s...3611b954d.html

So, no.... the sentiments that Dr. Khan expressed, I believe, were genuine and indicative that he wished he could have been there and done something for her when it was needed.
Ok, thanks - to Dr. Khan, wherever you are, I apologize !
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  #3393  
Old 09-14-2020, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
If he did ssay this, he was a heart surgeon and might have been able to operate but I think her injuries were so severe that unless she had been operated on literally immediately, nothing could have saved her...
As for Dodi, he had a girlfriend and they were planning ot marry. He courted Diana because his father pushed him into it.
Got it, thanks!

Iím not a fan of parents interfering in their childrenís personal lives....
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  #3394  
Old 09-14-2020, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I don't know if Diana truly wished to get out of the marriage.
What she really wanted was to get rid of Camilla, and that wasn't happening.
It used to be typical for British Kings to have mistresses on the side, no big deal, but by the time of the 80ís and 90ís, those days were long gone. Like anyone, man or woman, Diana wanted to be chosen, she wanted to be the one. Ultimately she could never be that for Charles, and even though it wasnít her fault, Iím sure it still ate away at her. Most/many divorced people feel that they somehow failed personally in their marriage - and Iím sure Charles felt that way after Dianaís death. I think that at least partially explains her not wanting the divorce.
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  #3395  
Old 09-14-2020, 08:56 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Got it, thanks!

Iím not a fan of parents interfering in their childrenís personal lives....
MAF supported Dodi, who was a pretty aimless and non productive individual. He wanted his son to make something of himself and it didn't happen.. so he problaby thought that at least Dodi could fulfil his father's ambition to get into the upper class and so he ordered him to drop his girlfriend and try to pay court to Diana.
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  #3396  
Old 09-14-2020, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I don't know if Diana truly wished to get out of the marriage.
What she really wanted was to get rid of Camilla, and that wasn't happening.
I dont think it was that simple. I think by the late 80s she realised that the marriage had failed and that she was never going to win Charles' full love... and that she herself now found him irritating and difficult to understand. I think that she half realised that even if Camilla was "gotten rid of" it would not solve the problems in hte marraige. She and C were not very compatible and if Cam had gone far away and the relationship ended, the odds were that seh and Charles would not be much happier and in the end, they would each find someone else who was more congenial....
I think that even though she half admitted that the marriage was not going to work, she did not like the thought of another woman succeeding where she had failed.. or indeed of giving up her chance to be queen. I think that her moods veered around wildly in the early 90s.. sometimes she wanted to get out and have a new man in her life.. but at other times she panicked, wondered what would happen if she didn't find a new husband.. how she'd cope if Charles married Camilla.. how she would manage her life outside the court and the RF.. and then at those times, she may have wanted to settle for a separation.. or just to quietly live a separate life to Charles as she had been doing... But the genie was out of the bottle and she had let it out.. so there was really no going back. While the queen didn't want them to have to divorce, at a certain stage, it was inevitable. And it was largely Di's own doing that during their separation things were said that made it pretty much impossible to go on as a separated couple... She admitted an affair, so did charles. She questioned his fitness for being King.. and that was the final straw that drove the queen to decide they had to divorce. Diana had a bad haibit of saying things, and not seeming to realise that when you siad them, they were out there and could not be denied or taken back
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  #3397  
Old 09-14-2020, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
MAF supported Dodi, who was a pretty aimless and non productive individual. He wanted his son to make something of himself and it didn't happen.. so he problaby thought that at least Dodi could fulfil his father's ambition to get into the upper class and so he ordered him to drop his girlfriend and try to pay court to Diana.
This actually is what I believe MAF's ambition was to begin with. He had tried so very hard over the years to gain entry into the British elite society but it never happened. He even went as far as to buy a castle in Scotland.

At the time, Dodi was engaged to another woman and actually had her on board on a neighboring yacht. As Daddy held the purse strings. what Daddy wanted, Daddy got and that was to woo and court Diana. The ultimate feather in the cap for MAF would have been to have his son married to the ex-wife of the Prince of Wales and mother to a future king of the UK.

I do definitely believe that MAF used Diana as a pawn in his own games. It cost him not only Diana's life but also the life of his beloved son.

https://www.scotland.com/attractions/castles/balnagown/
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  #3398  
Old 09-14-2020, 09:56 AM
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obviiously that was MAF's well known ambition, to get "into" upper class society.. but in spite of all the money he expended on buying castles, cosying up to aristocrats, donating to charities, it didn't work...Dodi had shown no business abilities, and he had tried going to Sandhurst to become an officer and a gentleman and he had left after a short time. The only thing that MAF could think of to do iwht his son was to try and marry him off to someone upper crust and Diana was just then bored and lonely, and in need of a little romance...
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  #3399  
Old 09-14-2020, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
This actually is what I believe MAF's ambition was to begin with. He had tried so very hard over the years to gain entry into the British elite society but it never happened. He even went as far as to buy a castle in Scotland.

At the time, Dodi was engaged to another woman and actually had her on board on a neighboring yacht. As Daddy held the purse strings. what Daddy wanted, Daddy got and that was to woo and court Diana. The ultimate feather in the cap for MAF would have been to have his son married to the ex-wife of the Prince of Wales and mother to a future king of the UK.

I do definitely believe that MAF used Diana as a pawn in his own games. It cost him not only Diana's life but also the life of his beloved son.

https://www.scotland.com/attractions/castles/balnagown/
Tragic story all around...
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  #3400  
Old 09-14-2020, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I dont think it was that simple. I think by the late 80s she realised that the marriage had failed and that she was never going to win Charles' full love... and that she herself now found him irritating and difficult to understand. I think that she half realised that even if Camilla was "gotten rid of" it would not solve the problems in hte marraige. She and C were not very compatible and if Cam had gone far away and the relationship ended, the odds were that seh and Charles would not be much happier and in the end, they would each find someone else who was more congenial....
I think that even though she half admitted that the marriage was not going to work, she did not like the thought of another woman succeeding where she had failed.. or indeed of giving up her chance to be queen. I think that her moods veered around wildly in the early 90s.. sometimes she wanted to get out and have a new man in her life.. but at other times she panicked, wondered what would happen if she didn't find a new husband.. how she'd cope if Charles married Camilla.. how she would manage her life outside the court and the RF.. and then at those times, she may have wanted to settle for a separation.. or just to quietly live a separate life to Charles as she had been doing... But the genie was out of the bottle and she had let it out.. so there was really no going back. While the queen didn't want them to have to divorce, at a certain stage, it was inevitable. And it was largely Di's own doing that during their separation things were said that made it pretty much impossible to go on as a separated couple... She admitted an affair, so did charles. She questioned his fitness for being King.. and that was the final straw that drove the queen to decide they had to divorce. Diana had a bad haibit of saying things, and not seeming to realise that when you siad them, they were out there and could not be denied or taken back
Charles admitted his affair in 1994 and it forced the divorce of the PBs, so in essence Camilla became a "free woman." Camilla's father was angry that Charles outed her to the world as the mistress. I think Charles became obligated.

Diana did not say Charles was not fit to be King. She said the "top job" might put limitations on him meaning he could not speak out on issues. She was not the first one nor the last to say this about Charles. Even Penny Junor said something similar.

I think another woman around would hurt any marriage. Camilla was around the entire time as confidante and friend and she had been intimate with Charles and somewhere along the line they became intimate again. I don't think Diana would have sought comfort elsewhere had Charles fully committed to her. Also Diana might not have minded Charles having a "fling" with someone as much as having Camilla around the whole time.

Charles mistake was his thinking Diana would not mind the arrangement with Camilla and not being honest with Diana before he proposed to her--about Camilla being here to stay.

I honestly don't think Diana was "desperate" to find a husband. She told Rosa Monckton she needed another marriage like a "bad rash." she was still young and could wait. Diana immersed herself in various causes and charities and she had her sons around, so her life was not really empty.

I think DIana was getting her act together in the nineties. She got the bulimia under control, exercised and had a better diet. It was a "fluke" that brought her to france in August. She was supposed to be going on vacation with a woman friend (Lana Marks?) who got sick and canceled so then she went with Dodi instead.

I also think it would have taken longer for Charles to marry Camilla had Diana been still alive. As it is after Diana died it took Charles 8 years to marry Camilla. His grandmother did not want him to marry Camilla in her lifetime.
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