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  #3301  
Old 05-15-2020, 04:44 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
Osipi I really appreciate how you are able to see the positive when it comes to this couple's often analyzed relationship.


I believe that after Diana's death that Charles did believe that it was best to stick to the plan that he and Diana created for their boys' education. IMO that tells me that the couple were in agreement on that topic.
I think they were in general agreement... but not completely.

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Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
Diana and CHarles would have put up a united front as parents in all the events in their sons lives had she lived. Sandhurst graduations and so on. They did come together for William's confirmation in `1997.
Of course they were going to do things like Wills confirmation in public together.. They had to.
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  #3302  
Old 05-15-2020, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
I think they were in general agreement... but not completely.

On the topic of their sons' education I do believe that they were in agreement about the general path that they'd follow.
Charles didn't want his sons at Gourdonston and Diana was in favor of Eton, so they were enrolled at Eton.

For William his post-secondary path would be similar to his father's and that of the 20th century heirs to the throne which would include a university degree and later military service.



For Harry his post secondary path would have been the military as it was his long expressed desire to go into the army. As for university, they'd likely have waited to see if their son should an interest in attending one.
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  #3303  
Old 05-15-2020, 10:38 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
On the topic of their sons' education I do believe that they were in agreement about the general path that they'd follow.
Charles didn't want his sons at Gourdonston and Diana was in favor of Eton, so they were enrolled at Eton.

For William his post-secondary path would be similar to his father's and that of the 20th century heirs to the throne which would include a university degree and later military service.



For Harry his post secondary path would have been the military as it was his long expressed desire to go into the army. As for university, they'd likely have waited to see if their son should an interest in attending one.
in a general way.. but Diana thought that Harry would struggle at Eton.. so she might have been in favour of sending him to a less heavily academic school. And I think that in terms of general upbringing, while Charles did not want to be too disciplinary, he had been brought up in a strict old fashioned nursery, and maybe felt that the boys should not be let go their own way too much.
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  #3304  
Old 05-15-2020, 02:28 PM
Heir Apparent
 
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When it came to their sons and their academic work and their interests, I believe that Charles and Diana were very much aware of their children's strengths and concerns based upon their own observations and the input they received from their sons' teachers over the years. If one of them required extra tutoring or an academic intervention, then they like any other student should receive that support.
After Diana's death, it was determined that Prince Harry should attend Ludgrove school for an additional year to prepare him for the Eton entrance exams. The additional year appeared to have given him the preparation that he required to pass the exam.



I am of the opinion that after Diana was killed, that Charles made the decision to honor her and have his sons continue on the path that he and their mother had determined for them.
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  #3305  
Old 05-15-2020, 05:21 PM
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Several posts discussing William and Harry's intelligence have been deleted as off topic. Any discussion of schooling should be directly related to the topic of this thread, which is Charles and Diana.
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  #3306  
Old 07-27-2020, 08:26 PM
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The thing I never understood about Dianaís thinking was why did she claim she wanted to resurrect her relationship with Charles, but continued to have all sorts of affairs. No spouse would take it seriously. Was she just not bright and able to think rationally or was claiming to want Charles and fix her marriage just a lie to cover her own bad behavior. Either option reflects poorly on her.
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  #3307  
Old 07-28-2020, 11:39 AM
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She had a severe inability to take responsibility. I think that if she had quit her affairs and did not try undercut Charles publicly and let him have access to his children, she could easily have outcompeted Camilla. With her stunning beauty and youth and officially being his wife, she had so many advantages. It is sad that their relationship did not work out.
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  #3308  
Old 07-28-2020, 11:48 AM
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By the time Panorama played publicly and Charles interview played there marriage was toast. HM pulled the plug. They had been legally separated for some time and ther relationship had been had been hauled through the gutter, there was nothing to salvage.
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  #3309  
Old 07-28-2020, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binny2 View Post
She had a severe inability to take responsibility. I think that if she had quit her affairs and did not try undercut Charles publicly and let him have access to his children, she could easily have outcompeted Camilla. With her stunning beauty and youth and officially being his wife, she had so many advantages. It is sad that their relationship did not work out.
when did she stop him having access to his children?? She couldn't "out compete" Camilla.. because he loved Camilla. If she had been older and wiser when they married, perhaps she would have won his love.. but it didn't happen... and after a couple of years it was too late... He loved Camilla, and din't care that his wife was younger and prettier...
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  #3310  
Old 07-28-2020, 02:09 PM
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If Diana had conducted herself like the previous Princess of Wales, she'd still be alive. That's the stark and almost unbearable truth but a late C20th bride was unlikely to keep quiet and live like a nun in the absence of love and fidelity. However, as a modern Princess of Wales, if she'd had more emotional maturity, she could have stood her ground as chatelaine of Highgrove and not allowed Camilla to replace her as hostess there (or anywhere). It was Diana's vulnerability that enabled Charles (and his staff) to sideline her, undermine her and keep her in the dark about his plans and social engagements. A mentally stronger woman would not have allowed that to happen and Camilla would never have replaced her. I'm not blaming Diana for how things unfolded because at 19, she didn't have the knowledge or skills to tackle what she was about to face. She also didn't have the steel backbone required to endure marriage to a man deeply in love with another woman. Few would have those attributes but how much different the BRF would look now if she'd had them.
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  #3311  
Old 07-28-2020, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
when did she stop him having access to his children?? She couldn't "out compete" Camilla.. because he loved Camilla. If she had been older and wiser when they married, perhaps she would have won his love.. but it didn't happen... and after a couple of years it was too late... He loved Camilla, and din't care that his wife was younger and prettier...


Diana would make arrangements so that the children did not see their father. That was what ultimately decided Charles to seek a separation which would have led to the divorce inevitably.
I think Charles is essentially an honorable man and a religious man. He was committed to the marriage but Diana had serious mental issues. I think she made his life hell and he sought emotional sustenance elsewhere. She was too mentally unstable to be in a healthy relationship. It really isnít Dianaís fault, but those were the cards she was dealt with. The intense spotlight and worldwide adulation damaged her.
Has anyone been following the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial? The similarities between the two couples are astonishing.
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  #3312  
Old 07-28-2020, 09:29 PM
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Charles and Diana similar to Johnny Depp and Amber Heard!! What the... !!

And I don't happen to think that a man who stood at the altar vowing to love a (very young) woman and 'forsaking all others', while deeply in love and emotionally committed to another, is honourable at all, 'essentially' or otherwise. And that goes double when the other person is a married woman.
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  #3313  
Old 07-28-2020, 09:49 PM
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There was nothing honorable about either of them. They both cheated on each other. Diana had her fair share of affairs during their marriage, she was no little holy saint in this whole affair.

I don't get why anyone would have wanted Diana to out-compete Camilla, and stand her ground as chatelaine. The marriage was miserable. Neither of them were happy. Neither of them were in love with each other. Diana isn't the poor scorned woman who died of a broken heart from Charles. She may have said she was in love with him when engaged but that was the infatuation of someone barely out of her teens with the dashing Prince Charming.

What we should wish is she had more common sense after separation. That she never got into a car with a driver who had been drinking. That she had been wearing a seat belt if she had gone in the car. Better yet that she had never been in France at the time to die and she was alive.

If people really love Diana as they claim, they shouldn't be picturing her as queen. They should be wanting her to have lived to have found real love again. To have her own happy ever after. Many people find their true love in their second marriage not in their first. That's why we often see even with commoners, that people who married way too young divorce their first spouse, and then end up having a long lasting second marriage.

Things would have been so much easier for Charles and Camilla was well. Most of the resentment is 'Sweet Saint Diana died so young, never had a chance to find love, while her evil ex husband has found happiness with his mistress'. If both Charles and Diana had lived, both went on to have love and their own happiness, the public hatred for Charles/Camilla would be far less then it is now.

One could hope, though it may be a stretch, that they would have been able to get together for their grandkids like we see with Anne and Mark. That with time and happiness on both fronts, that things would have settled.


But Diana as queen consort was never going to be a 'happy ever after' moment.
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  #3314  
Old 07-28-2020, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Charles and Diana similar to Johnny Depp and Amanda Heard!! What the... !!



And I don't happen to think that a man who stood at the altar vowing to love a (very young) woman and 'forsaking all others', while deeply in love and emotionally committed to another, is honourable at all, 'essentially' or otherwise. And that goes double when the other person is a married woman.


I donít buy that Camilla was the great love of his life. He was involved with Dale Tyron for many years. Camilla was one of many.

The tapes show the borderline behavior. I hate you, donít leave me. The gaslighting and the lovebombing and the physical abuse. Diana would throw heavy objects at Charles when she was in rage. She would taunt him that he will be never be king. She worked hard to destroy him and she almost succeeded in overthrowing him from the line of succession.
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  #3315  
Old 07-28-2020, 10:20 PM
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Charles wasn't bad at throwing objects when in a rage himself. There was a certain clock at Highgrove thrown by him on many occasions and repaired again and again with no one saying anything. When the couple stayed at Althorp a chair was damaged as well as a window. Charles again!

And then there is the well documented occasion when he was staying at a Duke's home and got into a temper about one of his cuff links disappearing down the plug hole of a sink. He pulled the washbasin from the wall while in a temper about it.

Charles behaved just as badly towards Diana as she to him and in some cases worse. At least Diana didn't stand at an altar while marrying and make vows that contradicted what was in her heart.
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  #3316  
Old 07-28-2020, 10:48 PM
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Charles and Diana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Charles wasn't bad at throwing objects when in a rage himself. There was a certain clock at Highgrove thrown by him on many occasions and repaired again and again with no one saying anything. When the couple stayed at Althorp a chair was damaged as well as a window. Charles again!



And then there is the well documented occasion when he was staying at a Duke's home and got into a temper about one of his cuff links disappearing down the plug hole of a sink. He pulled the washbasin from the wall while in a temper about it.



Charles behaved just as badly towards Diana as she to him and in some cases worse. At least Diana didn't stand at an altar while marrying and make vows that contradicted what was in her heart.


What did Charles do towards Diana that was bad. Diana was lying when she said she was in love with him. She had only gone on 11 dates. She ignored the fact that he was only fond her. She was an ambitious woman. She knew deep in her heart that she marrying him for the title, the status, and riches. She sold herself to royal family in short. She was a grown woman when she made the decision. She owns it.
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  #3317  
Old 07-28-2020, 11:24 PM
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Diana was 19 when she became engaged.
And how exactly do you know what was in Diana's heart or that she was lying when she stated that she was in love with Charles? Nothing in any bio, nothing that any person who knew them both at the time, has ever stated that Diana was never in love with Charles. Plenty about him being unsure of his feelings, of feeling like he was pressured into an engagement by his father, the Press and others, but nothing in the opposite direction.

I've known people who fell in love at first sight, married and stayed together for the rest of their lives. People can fall in love on the first date, the second or the 200th. It doesn't matter. It happens and it's well documented that it happens.
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  #3318  
Old 07-29-2020, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binny2 View Post
What did Charles do towards Diana that was bad. Diana was lying when she said she was in love with him. She had only gone on 11 dates. She ignored the fact that he was only fond her. She was an ambitious woman. She knew deep in her heart that she marrying him for the title, the status, and riches. She sold herself to royal family in short. She was a grown woman when she made the decision. She owns it.

She was 19.
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  #3319  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:56 AM
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Charles was much older and knew the score. She was 19 and fancied herself in love ..I mean come on, what woman in this group hasn't been at that point as a teen? Lord I am so glad I didn't marry who I thought I was in love with as a teen.

Charles needed a wife, the pressure was on, the letter from his father he took to mean (mistakenly or not) about getting on with it or cutting her loose, his friends mostly found her 'jolly' and fun ...they and he probably figured she was young enough to be molded into the sort of wife he needed as a PoW (she had no past to pop up even if media investigated)...her breeding was correct for that era of things. That doesn't mean he didn't care about her, I'm certain he cared for her...just not as he perhaps should of before marrying.

Frankly a more mature woman would of sent the ring back after the infamous interview when he saidf 'whatever love is/means' (I forget the exact wording). They both had doubts prior too but both felt compelled to go thru with it. If they had dated a year he'd of never proposed. Totally unsuitable for each other in interests and maturity.

They both said and did some horrible things to each other and made some very bad decisions to talk to book authors and do interviews about their marriage.

He lost his chance with Camilla years earlier by dallying about and Camilla was also in love with APB. Charles went to sea leaving the field clear for APB. A shame too because in retrospect she seems very perfect for him. All the negative drama of the 80's and 90's might of been avoided.


I have always held Charles more responsible for the situation (up to a point) due to her age and immaturity. I think he should of found his spine and said no one is going to push me into this ..unfortunately he didn't.

There's really nothing new out there ...we all pretty much know the history.


LaRae
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  #3320  
Old 08-10-2020, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Diana was 19 when she became engaged.
And how exactly do you know what was in Diana's heart or that she was lying when she stated that she was in love with Charles? Nothing in any bio, nothing that any person who knew them both at the time, has ever stated that Diana was never in love with Charles. Plenty about him being unsure of his feelings, of feeling like he was pressured into an engagement by his father, the Press and others, but nothing in the opposite direction.

I've known people who fell in love at first sight, married and stayed together for the rest of their lives. People can fall in love on the first date, the second or the 200th. It doesn't matter. It happens and it's well documented that it happens.
Diana was awestruck that this much older man was courting her. She really felt he loved her and I believe she loved him. Diana was a young woman just really on her own for a short time, sharing a flat. She was not worldly wise and she was much younger than Charles so did not travel in his circle.

Philip did not force Charles to marry, and he was right. If Charles did not love her he should have let her go. If he did not marry Diana, then he would have moved on to another aristo or young woman from a wealthy family it would not have been Camilla, since she already was married and divorce may have compromised Charles as being in line for the throne.
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