Charles and Diana

[Tsaritsa]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I agree. She was between a rock and hard place and had no clue how to live without the protection of being married into the RF or negotiate the waters without them. It was an alien world she had to negotiate without a port in storm to anchor her.

A classic case of the grass always appearing to be greener, perhaps?

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Tsaritsa

A classic case of the grass always appearing to be greener, perhaps?

Definitely. When life seems to be in the pits, anything outside of it seems like the full blown ripe cherry. In time though, getting the cherry makes you realize that it has pits too.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

No - Andrew and then his girls before Edward, James and Louise.

Andrew is the Queen's second son and Edward the third.

Just because Andrew's children are girls doesn't mean they are behind Edward and his son in the line of succession.

If Charles has no children then the line would be:

Charles
Andrew
Beatrice
Eugenie
Edward
James
Louise
Anne
Peter
Savannah
Isla
Zara
Mia
David
Charles
Margarita
Sarah
Samuel
Daniel
Richard - Duke of Gloucester (who, if the idea that if there was a male in the line he would take precedence of girls would be the monarch as in 1952 his father was the first male (not descended from a female) in the line of succession.

Imo Richard would have made a fine king. However, his father would have been a different story.

Just one correction to the list above: Daniel should be Arthur. You're mixing up spouse and son

[Mermaid1962]

Originally Posted by Queen Claude

Diana was a moving target. She has said things along the lines of she did not want the separation in 1992 nor did she not want the divorce. But there were also stories about her and Fergie having a plan to jointly escape the Windsor fold.

Ah yes; but that was before Diana saw what Sarah went through with the Yorks' separation and divorce. Perhaps that's when reality hit about what it really meant.

[Osipi]

Perhaps by that time, Diana really wanted to remain married to The Prince of Wales and rightfully claim her position of The Princess of Wales and mother of a future King but on the other hand, she really didn't want to be married to Charles, the man that he was.

Kind of wanting her cake and eat it too kind of thing.

[Denville]

The queen would have preferred them to stay married in name, even if separated.. what drove her to insist on a divorce was the sniping in the press between the 2 of them. Diana no doubt felt at times that she would prefer to get out of the marriage and be free but at other times felt that she was afraid of the world outside, which she ad not lived in since she was 19 or 20.

[MARG]

I believe the separation could have gone on almost indefinitely and no one can say how it would have played out over time. However, Diana's infamous 'Panorama' interview severed any lasting sympathy or warmth for her in an instant when she attacked the throne.

Her Majesty ordered divorce proceedings to proceed immediately. End of story. I truly believe Diana was genuinely unprepared and totally shocked at what she had unintentionally set in train.

[bethaliz6894]

Originally Posted by Osipi

Perhaps by that time, Diana really wanted to remain married to The Prince of Wales and rightfully claim her position of The Princess of Wales and mother of a future King but on the other hand, she really didn't want to be married to Charles, the man that he was.

Kind of wanting her cake and eat it too kind of thing.

In a marriage don't you think you should have your cake and eat it to? I agree it takes 2 people to make the marriage work and Charles didn't seem interested after a while. Diana was no saint herself. To bad they couldn't find a way to be happy with each other.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by bethaliz6894

In a marriage don't you think you should have your cake and eat it to? I agree it takes 2 people to make the marriage work and Charles didn't seem interested after a while. Diana was no saint herself. To bad they couldn't find a way to be happy with each other.

I think they did both try, but Charles probably gave up in a couple fo years and returned to Camilla.. He and Di had little in common, they didn't understand each other and she was ill with bulimia and depression. After a couple of years of rows, I think that Charles returned to Camilla, who was there for him, who was a comfortable companion. Diana then tried to get over her bulimia and when she was a bit better, she found a lover...

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Denville

I think they did both try, but Charles probably gave up in a couple fo years and returned to Camilla.. He and Di had little in common, they didn't understand each other and she was ill with bulimia and depression. After a couple of years of rows, I think that Charles returned to Camilla, who was there for him, who was a comfortable companion. Diana then tried to get over her bulimia and when she was a bit better, she found a lover...

I think given the way a lot of upper society marriages were at that time, Charles wanted someone that made his life easy. Diana obviously didn't. He's always had that with Camilla and that's what he went back to. I wouldn't put money on him and Camilla being physically intimate from the beginning of the Wales' marriage, but they certain had an emotional intimacy that would've been a problem for most brides. And I don't think Charles wanted to acknowledge the damage it was doing to their relationship then. In his world, he's used to getting his way and others just deal with it. I mean, if I found a picture of my boyfriend's ex in his diary, that'd be a HUGE problem. I fully recognize they were simply a terrible match in reality, and they both had faults that ultimately led to the complete destruction. However, I do hold The Prince of Wales more accountable because he was a worldly 30-something year old versus a 20 year old. He should've known better than entering into a marriage under the circumstances they did. He did seem to have issue with his spine where his father was concerned when he was younger though.

[Tsaritsa]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

I think given the way a lot of upper society marriages were at that time, Charles wanted someone that made his life easy. Diana obviously didn't. He's always had that with Camilla and that's what he went back to. I wouldn't put money on him and Camilla being physically intimate from the beginning of the Wales' marriage, but they certain had an emotional intimacy that would've been a problem for most brides. And I don't think Charles wanted to acknowledge the damage it was doing to their relationship then. In his world, he's used to getting his way and others just deal with it. I mean, if I found a picture of my boyfriend's ex in his diary, that'd be a HUGE problem. I fully recognize they were simply a terrible match in reality, and they both had faults that ultimately led to the complete destruction. However, I do hold The Prince of Wales more accountable because he was a worldly 30-something year old versus a 20 year old. He should've known better than entering into a marriage under the circumstances they did. He did seem to have issue with his spine where his father was concerned when he was younger though.

Charles wasn't always HRH The Prince of Wales whose every wish is someone's command. He was once a very timid, sensitive little boy who had a man's man, with a strong personality, who looked like a God, for a father. He never seemed to be on the same wave length as his Pa, but went out of his way -as children do- to gain his approval. He'd have done this all his life -deferring to his better? judgement- thus he probably thought, when it came to marriage, Pa knew best. The problem with his spine had been there for so long, he'd have failed to notice it. Eventual marriage with the right woman for him may have gone a long way to correcting the problem.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Tsaritsa

Charles wasn't always HRH The Prince of Wales whose every wish is someone's command. He was once a very timid, sensitive little boy who had a man's man, with a strong personality, who looked like a God, for a father. He never seemed to be on the same wave length as his Pa, but went out of his way -as children do- to gain his approval. He'd have done this all his life -deferring to his better? judgement- thus he probably thought, when it came to marriage, Pa knew best. The problem with his spine had been there for so long, he'd have failed to notice it. Eventual marriage with the right woman for him may have gone a long way to correcting the problem.

I don't know if I'd marriage to the right woman would've corrected it. Ultimately, I do think it corrected before he married Camilla. I think having gone through a lot of what he did did make him a better man. He realized after Diana that his birthright simply isn't going to guarantee his acceptance by the public anymore. There was a shift in how people viewed royalty over time as well that coincided with this time period. I do think 30s is at an age where you are old enough to know better and can't blame your issues on your parents or childhood anymore. I think they BOTH had really wrong impression of what marriage entails when they got into it.

[Tsaritsa]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

I don't know if I'd marriage to the right woman would've corrected it. Ultimately, I do think it corrected before he married Camilla. I think having gone through a lot of what he did did make him a better man. He realized after Diana that his birthright simply isn't going to guarantee his acceptance by the public anymore. There was a shift in how people viewed royalty over time as well that coincided with this time period. I do think 30s is at an age where you are old enough to know better and can't blame your issues on your parents or childhood anymore. I think they BOTH had really wrong impression of what marriage entails when they got into it.

This, of course, goes back to their childhood experiences of their parents' marriages which would subconsciously have fuelled their own hopes and expectations of what marriage entails. I can't imagine Charles being the forceful personality his father was, instead, I see him doing what his mother is said to do, like her own mother, walk away rather than confront, difficulties. It's likely then, that Charles would have expected that Diana -wives in general?- didn't challenge husbands. Thus marriages held together. Diana, conversely, whilst entering the ONE marriage she believed would be safe from divorce had only witnessed those behaviours which led to it. She, without knowing it, may have played out those behaviours because she had no other 'tool' with which to handle difficult situations.

[duchessrachel]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

I think given the way a lot of upper society marriages were at that time, Charles wanted someone that made his life easy. Diana obviously didn't. He's always had that with Camilla and that's what he went back to. I wouldn't put money on him and Camilla being physically intimate from the beginning of the Wales' marriage, but they certain had an emotional intimacy that would've been a problem for most brides. And I don't think Charles wanted to acknowledge the damage it was doing to their relationship then. In his world, he's used to getting his way and others just deal with it. I mean, if I found a picture of my boyfriend's ex in his diary, that'd be a HUGE problem. I fully recognize they were simply a terrible match in reality, and they both had faults that ultimately led to the complete destruction. However, I do hold The Prince of Wales more accountable because he was a worldly 30-something year old versus a 20 year old. He should've known better than entering into a marriage under the circumstances they did. He did seem to have issue with his spine where his father was concerned when he was younger though.

I have often wondered what would have happened if Diana had backed out of the marriage. When she mentioned it to her friends and they told her that her "face was already on the tea towels", if she had not let that sway her and she had backed out, would it have been a scandal? I don't really believe she wanted to back out, but I just wonder how it would have been received by the Royal Family given their closeness to the Spencers. Also, I wonder how the press would have portrayed it?

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by duchessrachel

I have often wondered what would have happened if Diana had backed out of the marriage. When she mentioned it to her friends and they told her that her "face was already on the tea towels", if she had not let that sway her and she had backed out, would it have been a scandal? I don't really believe she wanted to back out, but I just wonder how it would have been received by the Royal Family given their closeness to the Spencers. Also, I wonder how the press would have portrayed it?

Given what was taking place behind the scenes, I think Diana's backing out would have been received with relief. Diana was proving to be far more of an unknown than had been bargained for, certainly from Charles' perspective.

I'm sure Charles would have taken the fall, as the gallant gentleman. We have to remember that back then Charles was not the demonized man he later became. Diana's age could have been used as reason. I'm sure Diana's mother would have played a part in the script to get Diana out of it, given she was not keen about the engagement to begin with (tried to talk Diana out of it). The tabloid press was still respectful of the BRF. It would have worked out.The BRF would have handled it. No scandal. JMO.

P.S. It would have been so much better for Charles. He would have had more time to get inwardly settled after the loss of Mountbattan, and older and wider, he would have been more careful with his next choice.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by duchessrachel

I have often wondered what would have happened if Diana had backed out of the marriage. When she mentioned it to her friends and they told her that her "face was already on the tea towels", if she had not let that sway her and she had backed out, would it have been a scandal? I don't really believe she wanted to back out, but I just wonder how it would have been received by the Royal Family given their closeness to the Spencers. Also, I wonder how the press would have portrayed it?

I think it is moot as it just would not hav happened. Even if Diana did make that remark to her sisters, I think she knew in her heart that she just could not back out. Charles also had misgivings but he knew he coud not back out either. If they had said anyting to the queen/RF/advisers, they would have been told firmly that it was impossible.

[Ish]

Posts discussing Camilla have been deleted as off topic.

[Pranter]

https://youtu.be/4pI3lIoU91o

Lady Nimue ..from the other thread.


LaRae

[Ista]

Originally Posted by Pranter

https://youtu.be/4pI3lIoU91o

Lady Nimue ..from the other thread.


LaRae

Prince Charles doesn't look very amused, does he?

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by Ista

Prince Charles doesn't look very amused, does he?

Not even a little.


LaRae