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  #2661  
Old 08-20-2017, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
For a marriage to work it's pretty important to love the person and not sleeping with the mistress
But Charles didn't have a mistress until after the marriage had broken down so that wasn't the reason for it to fail.
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  #2662  
Old 08-20-2017, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
An article in the DM a couple of days quotes Diana's roommate saying Diana was going, “Oh my God I met this guy at the weekend but I have to call him Your Highness.”

That alone tells you she wasn't exactly an expert. Charles is Royal Highness, not Highness.

I do think she was a bit intimidated by the whole thing. This was 1980, not 1880. It's not liked she spent her days locked in her room practicing her curtsey and reading Latin or whatever.

She had a bit of social exposure but certainly no experience at court.
I know that anything the DM reports is usually fake news - this is a perfect example. Diana would have known exactly who Charles was - especially since he did date her sister.

It is amazing how the media still portrays the story as Cinderella. She was far from being Cinderella - she was very much part of the Royal social sphere.
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  #2663  
Old 08-20-2017, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
See, imo he was ready to leave the old love behind him and start a new life (the old love was married to someone else so was off limits anyway). Imo only when the new love didnt work out (too little shared interests) he returned to the old love with whom he did share interests (which he shouldn't have done ofcourse, but nobody is perfect).

all imo ofcourse, but i do think it's possible to move on from a former loved one and start a new life with a new love.

That said, i also think C&D were too incompatible and both not able or willing to bridge the gap and at some point found it easier to go their own way, him with an old love, her with new love(rs).
Wholeheartedly agree.

I have seen men, from breaking up with their long-term partners, fall in love and never ever think, communicate or form a relationship with their previous lover.
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  #2664  
Old 08-21-2017, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
I know that anything the DM reports is usually fake news - this is a perfect example. Diana would have known exactly who Charles was - especially since he did date her sister.

It is amazing how the media still portrays the story as Cinderella. She was far from being Cinderella - she was very much part of the Royal social sphere.
Exactly - she had grown up around the royals and knew them and how to behave around them.

She knew who Charles was and probably vice versa although they didn't 'notice' each other romantically until 1980. It is the same with Elizabeth and Philip - who didn't 'meet' in 1939 having been aware of each other prior to that meeting. They moved in the same circles etc. but the media likes to portray these set dates because they can't comprehend the idea of someone knowing who another person was without automatically being 'in love' with them rather than a more gradual awareness of them.
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  #2665  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I believe she meant that in the way of 'over a period of time' she realised she was not the only person or thing demanding his time.

You believe Charles was having an affair before he married Diana and I most certainly don't. There is ample information to support both of our beliefs and none to disprove it.
Of course he was having an affair before he was married. He said himself that he was with Camilla 3 times, before her marriage they had an affair. After her children were born, they had another return to their relationship.. and finally he returned to sleeping with her in the mid 80s after his marriage had broken down.
And I can't imagine how Diana "found out in time".. if she only realised about Camilla when it was too late to call off the wedding.. or if she had not realised until after their marriage.
I think that it wasn't till after the marriage that Diana realised quite what C's life is like, and what royal life was going to be like.. and that her husband was very busy with a lot of interests and duties and wasnt' going to be there as much as she would want him to be...And posislby she didn't realise until she was a little older that he might always carry a torch for Camilla.. and that he and she were not likely to grow as close, without a lot of compromising and hard wrok.. and some help...
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  #2666  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Princess Squirrel View Post
I don't agree that cohabiting before marriage necessarily makes the marriage more likely to last. In fact, statistically, the opposite has been shown to be true. My husband and I have been wed nearly 19 years and are still very happy together. However, we were pen friends for a year
True. I think that it is rather naïve the way people say this, that if Charles and Di had known each other longer or had lived together, they would have realised how little they had in common etc.
I think that if people really really want a marriage, they will push for it, and pressure, even if perhaps the other person isn't that committed..and even if it is not really a good relationship. And often the less committed party will give in and regret it.
However I think that in today's world, the RF have decided that it is best to give couples at least a long courtship time and for them if possible to live together discreetly before committing.
the "old ways" of a short courtship, conducted with "propriety" hadn't worked too well for Charles and Di or Andrew and Sarah.
I don't think it does any harm for couples to spend at least 2 or 3 years waiting and trying to learn all about each other before they marry.. but it isn't a guarantee.
Being married isn't the same as living together.. and that's partly because in living together there is a relatively simple "getting out"..and so when a couple who have lived together find themselves married, it becomes stifling and they realise it was all a mistake and want out.
But for a marriage to work esp if there are problems as there were with C and Diana, is HARD work and I dotn think that they were really willing to try all that hard. They DID make some effort but in all honesty I think that the gaps were too wide, she was immature and fragile. He was alos immature because of his social position.. and he already had had a comfortable good relationship that had fulfilled him.. and so it must have been tempting to think too much of his old girlfriend when he found himself struggling to get on with Diana.
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  #2667  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
I know that anything the DM reports is usually fake news - this is a perfect example. Diana would have known exactly who Charles was - especially since he did date her sister.

It is .
Of course she would have known who he was, and I don't believe she would have referred to him as "that guy"... she would say "I met the POW".. and would be more likely to say that "she had to call him "Sir".
I think she hadn't met him for a time.. She had problably seen him as a kid, when she played with his brothers.
THen she likely vanished from his radar for a time, because she was at school.. and he was grown up. They met again when she was 16, and he was dating Sarah. However I don't know how much she would have seen of him till she met him at the friends' party where they sat on hay bales chatting.. She was a lot younger, and I don't think she was in his social circle.. She had her own circle of friends... and might have just run across him at a big party..
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  #2668  
Old 08-21-2017, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
An article in the DM a couple of days quotes Diana's roommate saying Diana was going, “Oh my God I met this guy at the weekend but I have to call him Your Highness.”

That alone tells you she wasn't exactly an expert. Charles is Royal Highness, not Highness.

I do think she was a bit intimidated by the whole thing. This was 1980, not 1880. It's not liked she spent her days locked in her room practicing her curtsey and reading Latin or whatever.

She had a bit of social exposure but certainly no experience at court.


This must be nonsense! Diana's maternal grandmother Ruth, Lady Fermoy, was a close friend and Extra Woman of the Bedchamber to QEQM, so I'm sure she wouldn't have been overcome by a 'Highness'!!! (of course he was actually a 'Royal Highness', which again she would have known)
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  #2669  
Old 08-21-2017, 03:14 PM
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I agree.

She also grew up playing with Prince Andrew(in one chapter of the book Her True Story she complains bitterly abou being forced to watch the 1969 children's movie classic "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" about a flying car when she came to visit him...because it was Andrew's favorite!) On at least one of those visits to play in the Royal nursery she mentioned Charles popping his head in to say hello and to see what was going on.

She called HM the Queen who was godmother to her brother Charles, "Aunt Lilibet" and of course her maternal grandmother Lady Fermoy was an intimate of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.

There is no way Lady Diana Spencer would have been unfamiliar with Royal/Court life.
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  #2670  
Old 08-21-2017, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post


There is no way Lady Diana Spencer would have been unfamiliar with Royal/Court life.
She might not have been aware that, according to Charles, every Prince of Wales had a mistress. She was only 19 and probably didn't know much about what people in their 30's were like. She was young enough and naive enough to believe that she would have a happier marriage than her parents because she was marrying the only man in the country who couldn't ever get a divorce.

We always marry a stranger, even if we've known each other for years and have lived together. If we're lucky, the stranger is who we hoped he/she was. Diana wasn't lucky.
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  #2671  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:42 PM
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Diana's entire life changed. She went from being unknown to the general public to being HRH The Princess of Wales and pregnant with her first child within about a year. She did it quite willingly, but it was a huge change. Prince Charles didn't have to learn how to live like a royal prince or deal with the media, because he had been doing it all his life. Diana was a private person who took on a very public life.

[/QUOTE] In this context, in this thread, did the twenty year old Diana not make sacrifices in the entire changing of her way of life?[/QUOTE]
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  #2672  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:21 PM
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Don't forget, none of us knew that Diana was living at Buckingham Palace. We all thought that she was at Clarence House, with the Queen mother; so no wonder the press thought that she was being hovered over by the Queen Mother. The QM was a very active 81-year-old at the time. I expect that she had her own schedule full of things to do.

I read something just recently about Margaret riding to an event with Diana during an early engagement and telling her who to shake hands with and so on.

In "A View From the Sidelines", Michael Shea discusses how Diana was taught about the media. She was taken to t.v. and radio studios to see how things worked, and she even took calls (anonymously) at the Buckingham Palace Press Office.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Diana lasted one term at her Swiss finishing school before her parents relented and allowed her to come home.

I said 'curtseying etc' in my post about Lady Susan Hussey. The etc would have included various court protocols. I'm afraid a lot of what newspapers and magazines printed about Diana and her engagement activities and early marriage at the time turned out often to be a lot of baloney.

In no book (biography) that I've ever read did Diana have a lot to do with the Queen Mother. Some of the reported comments Diana was supposed to have made about being so so used to the Queen's company before her marriage weren't true, either.
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  #2673  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:32 PM
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Finally, someone who thinks like I do! Ideas about courtship and marriage are so different now than they were even in the 70s and early 80s. Consider, for instance, that the press was led to believe that Diana was living down The Mall from Prince Charles, when in fact she had a suite of rooms down the corridor from him.

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Originally Posted by Princess Squirrel View Post
I don't agree that cohabiting before marriage necessarily makes the marriage more likely to last. In fact, statistically, the opposite has been shown to be true.
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  #2674  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:37 PM
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She was at his 30th birthday party as well. Diana would have been 17.5 years old then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
However I don't know how much she would have seen of him till she met him at the friends' party where they sat on hay bales chatting.. She was a lot younger, and I don't think she was in his social circle.. She had her own circle of friends... and might have just run across him at a big party..
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  #2675  
Old 08-22-2017, 04:54 AM
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well yes she knew him and she was given insrtuciton in "Royal life"..but it wasn't by the queen Mother.
and I think she wasn't aware of how formal Royal life is, even in private, because she had never been part of the "inner circle" who socialised with royals as an adult. She did get invites to "big royal events" because of her status and being part of 2 families who were courtiers, but until she started dating Charles she had no regular contact with the RF.
It was a big change for her, and less of a change for Charles.. of course. He just had to accommodate a wife in hs life, she had to give up her old life and learn about a new one.
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  #2676  
Old 09-30-2017, 04:36 PM
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For me, Charles married to satisfy others and Diana married for a title. IMO she cunningly sought him out as it has been said as if auditioning for a role. No one thought it would end as it did although something noticeable enough for “insiders” to question them both I agree with much prior posts only to add as years went on I believe Diana tried to bend the Queen’s will and change the monarchy to what she wanted
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  #2677  
Old 10-01-2017, 05:31 AM
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Not at all. Diana believed she was in love with Charles - and yes she wanted to be Princess of Wales? Why not. she hoped that it would make up for her onw feelings of inadequacy.. adn it was a perfectly normal ambition for a girl of her class.
And Charles married because he had reached the age when he really had to settle and get married and have children.. and he thougt that he was fond enough of Diana for it to work out.
Diana did try to change the monarchy but it is bound to change every generation. However, she was not IMO expeirneced or intelligent enough to do it in a considered fashion. She made haphazard attempts, tried to criticise her husband and ended up in a position of more or less "pushed out".
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  #2678  
Old 10-01-2017, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missjersey View Post
For me, Charles married to satisfy others and Diana married for a title. IMO she cunningly sought him out as it has been said as if auditioning for a role. No one thought it would end as it did although something noticeable enough for “insiders” to question them both I agree with much prior posts only to add as years went on I believe Diana tried to bend the Queen’s will and change the monarchy to what she wanted

If I marry a Mr Whoever, it's reasonable enough to expect that I wish to be MRS Whoever. Diana was in far less need of a title than many others. She already had one. I think, like many other 16 year olds -the age she was when she met his socially- she had dreams. In her case, dreams -NEEDS- of a happy ever after, lasting marriage. However, on the day they married, my words were "There are more than 13 years age difference dividing them". Those words were followed with these others "But at least she's made the one marriage which can't fail"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #2679  
Old 10-01-2017, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Not at all. Diana believed she was in love with Charles - and yes she wanted to be Princess of Wales? Why not. she hoped that it would make up for her onw feelings of inadequacy.. adn it was a perfectly normal ambition for a girl of her class.
And Charles married because he had reached the age when he really had to settle and get married and have children.. and he thougt that he was fond enough of Diana for it to work out.
Diana did try to change the monarchy but it is bound to change every generation. However, she was not IMO expeirneced or intelligent enough to do it in a considered fashion. She made haphazard attempts, tried to criticise her husband and ended up in a position of more or less "pushed out".

Spot on, Denville.
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  #2680  
Old 10-01-2017, 09:03 AM
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The courtesy title of an earl's daugther is not the same as the title of the wife of a senior Royal, much less a future queen.
yes she did believe and hope that this was " a marriage that could not end in divorce" which was an attraction when her home had been broken up by selflish parents and a bitter divorce.
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