Charles and Diana

[COUNTESS]

Originally Posted by Lady Nimue

She had far more than a jealous streak. It's not for nothing it's called 'the green-eyed monster.' The real problem exists when jealousy is seen as 'justified' and 'normal', rather than the defect it is that needs transforming.

Had she been a bit more clear-eyed (and centered in herself) she would have understood that Charles would have been as loyal and devoted to her as to any of his friends (and then some as his wife and the mother of his children). We are forever seeing him and that relationship through the imperfect gauze of Diana's imperfect expectations and skewed experience. Treating it as 'truth' when it was never that really.

Her imperfect expectations? Expecting a husband to love her and not have a mistress, he really loved. What a fool Diana was. And he would have been as devoted to her as to any of his friends???? Green eyed monster. Again, she was a fool to marry him. He was a cad to marry her. And a spineless twit not to say Camilla was not negotiable. That he loved Camilla is quite acceptable. That he expected a wife to understand that is sheer insanity. At least, by those of us who foolishly married for love and expected to be returned. Charles is and was a spoiled, over worshiped figure, who worried about himself first. He needed a mother, he said so and got one.

[Dman]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Her imperfect expectations? Expecting a husband to love her and not have a mistress, he really loved. What a fool Diana was. And he would have been as devoted to her as to any of his friends???? Green eyed monster. Again, she was a fool to marry him. He was a cad to marry her. And a spineless twit not to say Camilla was not negotiable. That he loved Camilla is quite acceptable. That he expected a wife to understand that is sheer insanity. At least, by those of us who foolishly married for love and expected to be returned. Charles is and was a spoiled, over worshiped figure, who worried about himself first. He needed a mother, he said so and got one.

It's beyond disturbing for anyone to come down hard on Diana because her husband couldn't let another married woman go. It's like getting mad at a wife for daring to get upset that her husband is getting busy with another woman in her own house. None of it makes sense.

Then again, many now see Diana as just a thorn in the side of a couples very successful love story.

[royal rob]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Her imperfect expectations? Expecting a husband to love her and not have a mistress, he really loved. What a fool Diana was. And he would have been as devoted to her as to any of his friends???? Green eyed monster. Again, she was a fool to marry him. He was a cad to marry her. And a spineless twit not to say Camilla was not negotiable. That he loved Camilla is quite acceptable. That he expected a wife to understand that is sheer insanity. At least, by those of us who foolishly married for love and expected to be returned. Charles is and was a spoiled, over worshiped figure, who worried about himself first. He needed a mother, he said so and got one.

Thank you, thank you, thank you
you have said what I've always wanted too say but haven't had the courage

[Curryong]

Yes, Countess. Perfect!

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Her imperfect expectations? Expecting a husband to love her and not have a mistress, he really loved. What a fool Diana was. And he would have been as devoted to her as to any of his friends???? Green eyed monster. Again, she was a fool to marry him. He was a cad to marry her. And a spineless twit not to say Camilla was not negotiable. That he loved Camilla is quite acceptable. That he expected a wife to understand that is sheer insanity. At least, by those of us who foolishly married for love and expected to be returned. Charles is and was a spoiled, over worshiped figure, who worried about himself first. He needed a mother, he said so and got one.

We are a long ways off topic. Maybe a moderator could move all these posts to the correct thread?

You misread what i was saying and I'm not sure my trying to untangle the misreading is a worthwhile endeavor at this point. Only to say, Diana had all the cards (even Camilla told her that) and she blew it.

You are convinced that he entered the marriage in ill-faith because that's what Diana told you he did and you believe her, so there is really nothing much to say. As long as that is your context, as long as you see Charles as 'a cad' and the evil perpetrator of a deception, every rationale will flow from that supposition. There's really no discussion.

I do agree that Diana should not have married The Prince of Wales. The public would have been saved a lot of drama had she just refrained from satisfying her ambition to snag him. Not so?

[Curryong]

And Charles was just a piece of putty in her hands? HE proposed to HER, not the other way around! Plus, one of those two people was in love when they stood at the altar. And that one was not Charles, at least not with the very young woman he was to marry. And he himself said so to Dimbleby.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by Curryong

And Charles was just a piece of putty in her hands? HE proposed to HER, not the other way around! Plus, one of those two people was in love when they stood at the altar. And that one was not Charles, at least not with the very young woman he was to marry.

If Diana was 'in love' with Charles why did she want to call off the wedding, why was she looking around the church?

She was 'in love' with being a Princess - not Charles the man but an image.

They didn't even know each other.

Sorry but this was an arranged marriage and both wanted out but were pushed into by their families.

If they had been any ordinary couple they would never have married as neither loved the other.

[Curryong]

Diana was in love with Charles, wished to marry him (and I for one wish the marriage had never gone ahead) but became increasingly perturbed by never getting a clear answer about his feelings for Camilla during the engagement. (Junor herself says this.)

Diana did become increasingly nervous about how Charles really felt as the engagement went on and she wished to withdraw. I don't believe however that this was an arranged marriage in any way, (the Queen, according to Dimbleby didn't express any opinion yea or nay as to whether he should marry Diana) though they certainly didn't know each other very well.

[Queen Claude]

Originally Posted by Curryong

And Charles was just a piece of putty in her hands? HE proposed to HER, not the other way around! Plus, one of those two people was in love when they stood at the altar. And that one was not Charles, at least not with the very young woman he was to marry. And he himself said so to Dimbleby.

And he basically said so to Diana when he proposed to her, according to Diana herself, and also to the public during the engagement interview.

According to Diana when she cried when saw Charles off to Australia it was because of she was in turmoil regarding Charles not being over Camilla. That was in March and IMO in enough time to call off the wedding.

Yes Charles proposed to Diana but he did not propose to her because he was in love with her nor did he lead her to believe that was why he proposed to her. If Diana wanted a marriage where both parties were in love with each other she had ample information that was not the case with Charles, nevertheless she accepted his proposal.

P.S.
I actually think that Diana was in love with Charles' position and not Charles himself.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Queen Claude

And he basically said so to Diana when he proposed to her, according to Diana herself, and also to the public during the engagement interview.

According to Diana when she cried when saw Charles off to Australia it was because of she was in turmoil regarding Charles not being over Camilla. That was in March and IMO in enough time to call off the wedding.

P.S.
I actually think that Diana was in love with Charles' position and not Charles himself.

yes well you're wrong there. She was In love with him.. in a chldish way. and if it was after the engagement was announced there was no way that Charles or Di cold have called off the wedding.
and while yes Diana seems ot have said that Charles said something like "whatever love means" at the proposal I don't believe he did. I don't believe he was "gushing" over her, but I don't believe that he made it clear at the proposal, that he didn't love her...

[Osipi]

Actually, at the onset of their courtship and their subsequent engagement, I do believe there were three in the picture. Diana, Charles and The Prince of Wales.

Diana hardly had time to get to know Charles, the man, on a deeper level considering how short the courtship and engagement was. It went the other way too. Charles hardly had time to get to know Diana, the person, too.

Camilla was an external factor. No denying that she was there but had Charles and Diana really gotten to know each other, that issue of what was, what is real at that time and how it should be perceived by both parties would have and could have affected the entire outcome of their relationship.

Definitely a good lesson in look before you leap.

[Curryong]

I do believe Diana was head over heels in a Barbara Cartlandish romantic mist sort of way, and that Charles hoped that love would come. I certainly don't believe that he ever intimated to Diana before their marriage that he didn't love her.

However, I remain convinced that if Charles had decided he and Diana would take one year to get to know each other, if he had resisted the pressure to wed that was coming from many directions, then after more dating they both would have realised they just weren't meant for each other. Both would have then gone on to other loves. Who was it who said 'What if..?' is the saddest phrase in the English language'?

[Pranter]

I think he 'intimated' to millions of folks with Diana present he didn't know that he loved her....whatever love is....


LaRae

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Curryong

However, I remain convinced that if Charles had decided he and Diana would take one year to get to know each other, if he had resisted the pressure to wed that was coming from many directions, then after more dating they both would have realised they just weren't meant for each other. Both would have then gone on to other loves. Who was it who said 'What if..?' is the saddest phrase in the English language'?

This puts into a nutshell what I was trying to point out earlier. I seriously believe that when Charles married, it was The Prince of Wales at the altar rather than Charles, the man. Charles, the man, wasn't being pressured to marry. The Prince of Wales was.

[Queen Claude]

Originally Posted by Denville

yes well you're wrong there. She was In love with him.. in a chldish way. and if it was after the engagement was announced there was no way that Charles or Di cold have called off the wedding.
and while yes Diana seems ot have said that Charles said something like "whatever love means" at the proposal I don't believe he did. I don't believe he was "gushing" over her, but I don't believe that he made it clear at the proposal, that he didn't love her...

So what was it about Charles himself that engendered Diana's "childish" love?

[Pranter]

I don't think there's anyone who doesn't agree if they had waited a year more than likely they would of parted ways.

As for the attraction to Diana, he was the only man in England that couldn't divorce her. I think she empathized with him over his loss and was drawn to his sensitivity. He probably appeared very glamorous to her as well. She knew the family somewhat ..but she might not of known enough. Teenage girl ..older man. Not the first time that's happened.


LaRae

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Queen Claude

So what was it about Charles himself that engendered Diana's "childish" love?

how can anyone say what makes anyone love another person? She thought he was dashing and sporty, he was portrayed In the press at that time as "Actionman", doing a lot of exciting sports.. he'd been in the Navy.. he was seen around with pretty girls..
And she thought of him as very clever, a "deep thinker", who knew lots of stuff that she didn't know about..
The fact that he coudlnt divorce..was a plus because she wanted a secure marriage for her and her children.. and clearly she hoped he would be (because he was super rich and as she saw it had no serious resposnbilities) home a lot, a doting husband and a father who was there to provide security and companionship for her and her children. If she had "only been in love with his position", why would she have cared about his loving another woman?

[ladongas]

I was in love with an older man when I was 19. He was handsome, gallant, charming, not rich, but brilliant and ambitious. I married him. In short order, I learned that he was cold, controlling, possessive, jealous, and selfish. He didn't have another woman, but I divorced him anyway. You just don't know things when you are a teenager, and you make mistakes accordingly.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Denville

how can anyone say what makes anyone love another person? She thought he was dashing and sporty, he was portrayed In the press at that time as "Actionman", doing a lot of exciting sports.. he'd been in the Navy.. he was seen around with pretty girls..
And she thought of him as very clever, a "deep thinker", who knew lots of stuff that she didn't know about..
The fact that he coudlnt divorce..was a plus because she wanted a secure marriage for her and her children.. and clearly she hoped he would be (because he was super rich and as she saw it had no serious resposnbilities) home a lot, a doting husband and a father who was there to provide security and companionship for her and her children. If she had "only been in love with his position", why would she have cared about his loving another woman?

If the part in bold was, in fact, how she perceived things to be, I think she was seriously delusional. The courtship would have proven that to her. The reason why they didn't spend too much time together during the courtship and the engagement was actually because of the serious responsibilities of his role as The Prince of Wales and also his burgeoning projects that were to define his role as The Prince of Wales to him personally.

Then again, there was the anecdote told often about Diana riding a tricycle with a tiara on her head chanting "I'm going to be Princess of Wales!". Whether or not that actually happened and is a reality we'll probably never know but I've read it often enough.

[Denville]

She wasn't "delusional".. She was naïve and problaby thought that yes he has to be POW, but he is still going to have lots of time to spend with me and the kids. And Charles HAS a lot of leisure.. just he had his own way of spending it and it didn't mostly involve "taking the baby for a walk".. though I think he did try for a bit.
I agree that Diana didn't fully understand the work that Charles does, and how dediciated he is to his self imposed tasks. But she only found htat out after they were engaged..
And I dont know where you got this idea of her "riding a tricylcle" with a tiara on her head.. The story, which seems to come form some equerry, and sounds to me anyway "sourced"..
was that the night before the wedding, he met Diana, who was at a loose end, and asked her to come for a drink in the equerries room
She went along. found a bike in the room and rode it around singing "IM going to marry the POW".
I dont quite see what is wrong with that, except that the version with the "tiara" etc seems to make her sound ridiculous.. If true, the "bike" story shows that she was happy, hopeful, keen to marry Charles.. and not as gloomy prior to the wedding as she later made herself out to be.
Yes of course his being POW was bound to be a part of what attracted girls to him.. but with most of them it was only a part. They were upper class, while they were impressed by his royal positon -it did not overwhelm them. They knew the RF, and possibly other Royals.. they were accustomed to great wealth and big historical homes.
So IMO Diana was impressed and pleased with the idea of marrying the Prince and being queen one day, but she was also in love with Charles as a person.

Originally Posted by ladongas

I was in love with an older man when I was 19. He was handsome, gallant, charming, not rich, but brilliant and ambitious. I married him. In short order, I learned that he was cold, controlling, possessive, jealous, and selfish. He didn't have another woman, but I divorced him anyway. You just don't know things when you are a teenager, and you make mistakes accordingly.

well yes that's one experience. Diana was in love with Charles.. it was a mistake because she didn't know him well enough. But other girls of 19 marry older men and it works out fine...