Charles and Diana

[Mirabel]

Diana was a very fragile person emotionally.. and while they'd reached a point where divorce was the only option, she was very ambivalent about it an I think that while she had hoped to get out of the marriage, she still had problems emotional and practical that made her life difficult.

I don't know if Diana truly wished to get out of the marriage.
What she really wanted was to get rid of Camilla, and that wasn't happening.

 

[Betsypaige]

First off, I believe that the statement made by Dr. Khan about "fixing" Diana was because that is what he does professionally. Hasnat Ahmad Khan, FRCS is a British-Pakistani heart and lung surgeon. Its his field of expertise as a cardiac surgeon. Not her "broken" heart in any way. He was devoted to his profession and Diana used to meet him at his apartment and cook for him and spend time with him in the hospital and was sincerely interested in the work he did.

As I mentioned before, Diana did try and manipulate things to the point of getting Dr. Khan a job in his profession in South Africa that didn't probably go down too well with him. "Diana once asked Dr. Christiaan Barnard, the heart transplant pioneer, to help her and her then-sweetheart -- a leading British-based heart surgeon -- move to South Africa, the Sunday Times reported."

https://buffalonews.com/news/diana-...cle_d7b9c570-cf61-5bfe-9135-4403611b954d.html

So, no.... the sentiments that Dr. Khan expressed, I believe, were genuine and indicative that he wished he could have been there and done something for her when it was needed. ?

Ok, thanks - to Dr. Khan, wherever you are, I apologize !

 

[Betsypaige]

If he did ssay this, he was a heart surgeon and might have been able to operate but I think her injuries were so severe that unless she had been operated on literally immediately, nothing could have saved her...
As for Dodi, he had a girlfriend and they were planning ot marry. He courted Diana because his father pushed him into it.

Got it, thanks!

I’m not a fan of parents interfering in their children’s personal lives....

 

[Betsypaige]

I don't know if Diana truly wished to get out of the marriage.
What she really wanted was to get rid of Camilla, and that wasn't happening.

It used to be typical for British Kings to have mistresses on the side, no big deal, but by the time of the 80’s and 90’s, those days were long gone. Like anyone, man or woman, Diana wanted to be chosen, she wanted to be the one. Ultimately she could never be that for Charles, and even though it wasn’t her fault, I’m sure it still ate away at her. Most/many divorced people feel that they somehow failed personally in their marriage - and I’m sure Charles felt that way after Diana’s death. I think that at least partially explains her not wanting the divorce.

 

[Denville]

Got it, thanks!

I’m not a fan of parents interfering in their children’s personal lives....

MAF supported Dodi, who was a pretty aimless and non productive individual. He wanted his son to make something of himself and it didn't happen.. so he problaby thought that at least Dodi could fulfil his father's ambition to get into the upper class and so he ordered him to drop his girlfriend and try to pay court to Diana.

 

[Denville]

I don't know if Diana truly wished to get out of the marriage.
What she really wanted was to get rid of Camilla, and that wasn't happening.

I dont think it was that simple. I think by the late 80s she realised that the marriage had failed and that she was never going to win Charles' full love... and that she herself now found him irritating and difficult to understand. I think that she half realised that even if Camilla was "gotten rid of" it would not solve the problems in hte marraige. She and C were not very compatible and if Cam had gone far away and the relationship ended, the odds were that seh and Charles would not be much happier and in the end, they would each find someone else who was more congenial....
I think that even though she half admitted that the marriage was not going to work, she did not like the thought of another woman succeeding where she had failed.. or indeed of giving up her chance to be queen. I think that her moods veered around wildly in the early 90s.. sometimes she wanted to get out and have a new man in her life.. but at other times she panicked, wondered what would happen if she didn't find a new husband.. how she'd cope if Charles married Camilla.. how she would manage her life outside the court and the RF.. and then at those times, she may have wanted to settle for a separation.. or just to quietly live a separate life to Charles as she had been doing... But the genie was out of the bottle and she had let it out.. so there was really no going back. While the queen didn't want them to have to divorce, at a certain stage, it was inevitable. And it was largely Di's own doing that during their separation things were said that made it pretty much impossible to go on as a separated couple... She admitted an affair, so did charles. She questioned his fitness for being King.. and that was the final straw that drove the queen to decide they had to divorce. Diana had a bad haibit of saying things, and not seeming to realise that when you siad them, they were out there and could not be denied or taken back

 

[Osipi]

MAF supported Dodi, who was a pretty aimless and non productive individual. He wanted his son to make something of himself and it didn't happen.. so he problaby thought that at least Dodi could fulfil his father's ambition to get into the upper class and so he ordered him to drop his girlfriend and try to pay court to Diana.

This actually is what I believe MAF's ambition was to begin with. He had tried so very hard over the years to gain entry into the British elite society but it never happened. He even went as far as to buy a castle in Scotland.

At the time, Dodi was engaged to another woman and actually had her on board on a neighboring yacht. As Daddy held the purse strings. what Daddy wanted, Daddy got and that was to woo and court Diana. The ultimate feather in the cap for MAF would have been to have his son married to the ex-wife of the Prince of Wales and mother to a future king of the UK.

I do definitely believe that MAF used Diana as a pawn in his own games. It cost him not only Diana's life but also the life of his beloved son.

https://www.scotland.com/attractions/castles/balnagown/

 

[Denville]

obviiously that was MAF's well known ambition, to get "into" upper class society.. but in spite of all the money he expended on buying castles, cosying up to aristocrats, donating to charities, it didn't work...Dodi had shown no business abilities, and he had tried going to Sandhurst to become an officer and a gentleman and he had left after a short time. The only thing that MAF could think of to do iwht his son was to try and marry him off to someone upper crust and Diana was just then bored and lonely, and in need of a little romance...

 

[Betsypaige]

This actually is what I believe MAF's ambition was to begin with. He had tried so very hard over the years to gain entry into the British elite society but it never happened. He even went as far as to buy a castle in Scotland.

At the time, Dodi was engaged to another woman and actually had her on board on a neighboring yacht. As Daddy held the purse strings. what Daddy wanted, Daddy got and that was to woo and court Diana. The ultimate feather in the cap for MAF would have been to have his son married to the ex-wife of the Prince of Wales and mother to a future king of the UK.

I do definitely believe that MAF used Diana as a pawn in his own games. It cost him not only Diana's life but also the life of his beloved son.

https://www.scotland.com/attractions/castles/balnagown/

Tragic story all around...

 

[Sandy345]

I dont think it was that simple. I think by the late 80s she realised that the marriage had failed and that she was never going to win Charles' full love... and that she herself now found him irritating and difficult to understand. I think that she half realised that even if Camilla was "gotten rid of" it would not solve the problems in hte marraige. She and C were not very compatible and if Cam had gone far away and the relationship ended, the odds were that seh and Charles would not be much happier and in the end, they would each find someone else who was more congenial....
I think that even though she half admitted that the marriage was not going to work, she did not like the thought of another woman succeeding where she had failed.. or indeed of giving up her chance to be queen. I think that her moods veered around wildly in the early 90s.. sometimes she wanted to get out and have a new man in her life.. but at other times she panicked, wondered what would happen if she didn't find a new husband.. how she'd cope if Charles married Camilla.. how she would manage her life outside the court and the RF.. and then at those times, she may have wanted to settle for a separation.. or just to quietly live a separate life to Charles as she had been doing... But the genie was out of the bottle and she had let it out.. so there was really no going back. While the queen didn't want them to have to divorce, at a certain stage, it was inevitable. And it was largely Di's own doing that during their separation things were said that made it pretty much impossible to go on as a separated couple... She admitted an affair, so did charles. She questioned his fitness for being King.. and that was the final straw that drove the queen to decide they had to divorce. Diana had a bad haibit of saying things, and not seeming to realise that when you siad them, they were out there and could not be denied or taken back

Charles admitted his affair in 1994 and it forced the divorce of the PBs, so in essence Camilla became a "free woman." Camilla's father was angry that Charles outed her to the world as the mistress. I think Charles became obligated.

Diana did not say Charles was not fit to be King. She said the "top job" might put limitations on him meaning he could not speak out on issues. She was not the first one nor the last to say this about Charles. Even Penny Junor said something similar.

I think another woman around would hurt any marriage. Camilla was around the entire time as confidante and friend and she had been intimate with Charles and somewhere along the line they became intimate again. I don't think Diana would have sought comfort elsewhere had Charles fully committed to her. Also Diana might not have minded Charles having a "fling" with someone as much as having Camilla around the whole time.

Charles mistake was his thinking Diana would not mind the arrangement with Camilla and not being honest with Diana before he proposed to her--about Camilla being here to stay.

I honestly don't think Diana was "desperate" to find a husband. She told Rosa Monckton she needed another marriage like a "bad rash." she was still young and could wait. Diana immersed herself in various causes and charities and she had her sons around, so her life was not really empty.

I think DIana was getting her act together in the nineties. She got the bulimia under control, exercised and had a better diet. It was a "fluke" that brought her to france in August. She was supposed to be going on vacation with a woman friend (Lana Marks?) who got sick and canceled so then she went with Dodi instead.

I also think it would have taken longer for Charles to marry Camilla had Diana been still alive. As it is after Diana died it took Charles 8 years to marry Camilla. His grandmother did not want him to marry Camilla in her lifetime.

 

[Countessmeout]

Was Diana in a rush to marry again? No. But was she content to be alone, just busy with her charity work and sons? No.

Diana was the kind of woman who wasn't easily alone. When her marriage lacked the intimacy and closeness she needed, she found it with other men. And after they separated as well. Khan and then Dodi, she was a woman who enjoyed the company of a man. Nothing wrong with that. But she was certainly not going to be the kind of woman to stay single and focus just on her kids and her charity work either.

I find it such an old fashioned view that a divorced woman would be 'satisfied simply with her sons and her hobbies or in her case charities' when its always assumed a single man will be out looking for a new love interest. Women have just as many physical and emotional needs as a man does.

I actually think Charles would have been married much sooner to Camilla. And that Camilla would likely have been Princess of Wales as well. The length of time had a lot to do with the insane mourning of Diana in the public and concern of the out cry if he married sooner. It took years of testing waters and having a PR person help Camilla. There was also the concern of his sons and their reaction after the death of their mother.

If Diana had lived she would have moved on. People would have seen her with her own life and likely a new established love. And she would not be this martyr on a pedestal that she was made out to be by much of the public for decades after her death. Charles wouldn't have to compete with a ghost.

I also think he and Camilla would have an easier time with the public. The public would see both Charles and Diana moved on and happy with someone else. They would both be at the weddings and events of their sons, with their own lives and happiness. And people would be quicker to accept that.

 

[Sandy345]

I think Diana wanted to find Mr Right but I doubt she would want to rush things. No matter where she was in her life she was always interested in her charity work and devoted to her sons. She would never really be alone and was fortunate that way. She may have wanted to live with someone first before settling to a marriage, take things slowly. I don't think she would have minded a remarriage and one or two more children.

Diana touched people's hearts I think it was genuine mourning for her and admiration. IT is sad to see someone dying prematurely and she was an iconic person.

 

[TLLK]

Was Diana in a rush to marry again? No. But was she content to be alone, just busy with her charity work and sons? No.

Diana was the kind of woman who wasn't easily alone. When her marriage lacked the intimacy and closeness she needed, she found it with other men. And after they separated as well. Khan and then Dodi, she was a woman who enjoyed the company of a man. Nothing wrong with that. But she was certainly not going to be the kind of woman to stay single and focus just on her kids and her charity work either.

I find it such an old fashioned view that a divorced woman would be 'satisfied simply with her sons and her hobbies or in her case charities' when its always assumed a single man will be out looking for a new love interest. Women have just as many physical and emotional needs as a man does.

I actually think Charles would have been married much sooner to Camilla. And that Camilla would likely have been Princess of Wales as well. The length of time had a lot to do with the insane mourning of Diana in the public and concern of the out cry if he married sooner. It took years of testing waters and having a PR person help Camilla. There was also the concern of his sons and their reaction after the death of their mother.

If Diana had lived she would have moved on. People would have seen her with her own life and likely a new established love. And she would not be this martyr on a pedestal that she was made out to be by much of the public for decades after her death. Charles wouldn't have to compete with a ghost.

I also think he and Camilla would have an easier time with the public. The public would see both Charles and Diana moved on and happy with someone else. They would both be at the weddings and events of their sons, with their own lives and happiness. And people would be quicker to accept that.

Honestly this would have been the best scenario had Diana lived. Her sons had been out of the house for years and would not be returning except for a few weeks out of the year for the coming years so yes she would have wanted to find companionship.

 

[Countessmeout]

I think Diana wanted to find Mr Right but I doubt she would want to rush things. No matter where she was in her life she was always interested in her charity work and devoted to her sons. She would never really be alone and was fortunate that way. She may have wanted to live with someone first before settling to a marriage, take things slowly. I don't think she would have minded a remarriage and one or two more children.

Diana touched people's hearts I think it was genuine mourning for her and admiration. IT is sad to see someone dying prematurely and she was an iconic person.

If Diana wanted more children she didn't have time to wait. Diana was 36 when she died, she didn't have years to test the waters if she wanted another child or two with another man. If she got married by 38, she may had snuck another child in. We don't know if she would want any more.

And yes she would have been alone. Her sons were at boarding school most of the year. The weeks they weren't at boarding school were divided between her and Charles. There would be huge gaps of the year when she would be alone.

And listening to her interviews, watching how she suffered eating disorders, sought comfort from other men, no her kids and charity work weren't enough. She wasn't Mother Theresa, she wasn't going to sit home knitting for her sons when she wasn't out 3-4 times a week doing a charity event.

Whether she waited a few years to marry or not, she wasn't going to stay single for long. She was looking for that man to fill a space in her life. She would have likely moved on from Dodi to the next man who gave her some genuine attention until she hopefully found someone to settle with.

 

[Jacknch]

A number of posts relating to Diana's death have been moved to the https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...funeral-and-interment-787-67.html#post2340369 thread.

Discussion about the relationship between Diana and Dodi al Fayed may take place in the https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f38/diana-and-dodi-and-tony-blair-37311.html thread.

There are other threads to discuss other topics relating to Diana in her sub-Forum - https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f38/

Posts relating to the marriage of Charles and Camilla have been moved to the https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f44/charles-and-camilla-the-marriage-2005-and-on-13676.html thread.

Camilla is off-topic for this thread, and members should concentrate on Charles and Diana here.

Thank you.

 

[Jacknch]

I've moved posts relating to the relationship/marriage between Diana's parents over to the https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...6-2004-dianas-mother-7139-14.html#post2338437 thread as it seems more appropriate to discuss it there.

 

[AristoCat]

Was Diana in a rush to marry again? No. But was she content to be alone, just busy with her charity work and sons? No.
I find it such an old fashioned view that a divorced woman would be 'satisfied simply with her sons and her hobbies or in her case charities' when its always assumed a single man will be out looking for a new love interest. Women have just as many physical and emotional needs as a man does.

I don't think she should have shut her life down, but she should have taken time and given herself at least a year or so before going onto a new relationship. It's not like she NEEDED a relationship right away and if I had just been through all that she had, I would want to take time out and reflect and contemplate what my next step would be. Preferable to being mixed up with the wrong guy and in another mess. She would have been better off not messing with men. She leapt back into the dating pool, but she messed with either married men (Will Carling/Oliver Hoare) or men who were committed elsewhere (as Dodi was with Kelly Fisher). She remained in the habit of acting impulsively and thinking that it was everyone's job to be available and would lash out when they weren't (like she did with Charles).

 

[AC21091968]

Tina Brown, author of The Diana Chronicles (biography of Diana, Princess of Wales, published in 2007) did an interview with Camilla Tominey on The Telegraph:

‘During my last lunch with Diana, she said she would go back to Charles in a heartbeat’
Tina Brown, who saw the princess a month before her death, gives her exclusive insight into Diana's life, including how she accepted Camilla
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...h-diana-said-would-go-back-charles-heartbeat/

Some of the content has been picked up by the Daily Mail.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...harles-heartbeat-royal-biographer-claims.html

 

[Betsypaige]

Tina Brown, author of The Diana Chronicles (biography of Diana, Princess of Wales, published in 2007) did an interview with Camilla Tominey on The Telegraph:

‘During my last lunch with Diana, she said she would go back to Charles in a heartbeat’
Tina Brown, who saw the princess a month before her death, gives her exclusive insight into Diana's life, including how she accepted Camilla
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...h-diana-said-would-go-back-charles-heartbeat/

Some of the content has been picked up by the Daily Mail.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...harles-heartbeat-royal-biographer-claims.html

I’m so glad that Charles and Diana did become close, for their sakes as well as their sons. You don’t often hear about that, because it’s not provocative. I feel for her now more than I ever did, I suppose because I remember the Wars of the Wales ...and while everyone rooted for Diana, I loved Charles. I’m glad that William and Harry got to see this new relationship of their parents before she died, but it’s s tragedy that Diana didn’t live to become truly happy and accomplish all that she wanted.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

This is not the first time I have read that Charles and Diana had become close before her death. And i always believed it.

Charles was visibly distraught at the funeral.

But the fact that Tina Brown believes Diana would have gone back to Charles does surprise me. I thought she was deeply in love with Hasnat Khan at the end?

No matter. It's all so sad, so depressing imo.

 

[Betsypaige]

This is not the first time I have read that Charles and Diana had become close before her death. And i always believed it.

Charles was visibly distraught at the funeral.

But the fact that Tina Brown believes Diana would have gone back to Charles does surprise me. I thought she was deeply in love with Hasnat Khan?

No matter. It's all so sad, so depressing imo.

I’ve read it before, but all the documentaries about Diana never mention this....because the media needs to have a hero and a villain.

Charles may not have been in love with her, but he did love her...and I hope she knew (which, it seems she did based on what Tina Brown is saying) that it wasn’t HER, that there wasn’t anything wrong with her (because she was so insecure in some ways). Charles just was already in love with someone else, and that wasn’t going to change. I don’t want to say the marriage shouldn’t have happened because otherwise there would be no William and Harry, but I’ll just say that the “protocol” for such things back then was really unfortunate, and I’m so glad that things are different now.

 

[Denville]

He loved her for a time but it was never his deepest love.. and over time, he grew pretty fed up with her - In Tina Browns biog, there is an anecdote that during their years of separation, Charles told someone at Highgrove that he didn't read the newspapers, and preferred to hear news on the radio because he didn't want to read the papers and have to see things about what his "crazy wife" was up to.
I don't think that they reached any great closeness in the last year or so.. I think that Charles was still fed up with her.. but of course when she died, he was shocked and grieved.

 

[Mirabel]

But the fact that Tina Brown believes Diana would have gone back to Charles does surprise me. I thought she was deeply in love with Hasnat Khan at the end?

That doesn't surprise me.
Diana seemed lonely at the end of her life.

(And I never believed her lovers after Hewitt meant more to her than just a quick infatuation followed by disillusionment.
I never bought into the supposedly deep love she felt for Khan. After all, she dumped him).

 

[MaiaMia_53]

There was surely love between them over the course of their marriage. But Charles wanted to have his cake and eat it too. An expression thrown around a lot these days in reference to royals.

Had they both met halfway when they encountered difficulties in their marriage. Had Diana been a bit more mature and not a teenager when she was proposed to. Had Charles had more backbone in facing up to his family, his destiny, and his desires... Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps some things might have been resolved.

That said, it was all a powder keg (probably unresolvable). With the fact of Diana's public popularity being the key sticking point for Charles, sadly, that annoyed him and led to him beginning to pull away from even trying to understand Diana. He should have thought more about trying to guide, support and be protective of her, particularly in light of her youth, and the huge gap in their ages. Patience and compassion from Charles, rather than selfishness might also have gone a long way toward repairing their differences.

 

[Alison H]

A lot of marriages don't work out. It's sad, especially when there are children involved, but it's the way it goes. I can't see that Charles and Diana would ever have got back together.

 

[Denville]

A lot of marriages don't work out. It's sad, especially when there are children involved, but it's the way it goes. I can't see that Charles and Diana would ever have got back together.

No. Of course not.. but I think that Diana at times half hoped they would... She was very volatile - and also capable of a lot of self deception. I think that she didn't really realize that Charles was just as fed up with the marriage and more so than she was.. and that although he had tried to keep the marriage going he was happy enough when the chance came to end it openly. I think she though (iwht incredible foolishness) that lashing out at him in Morton would either bring him back repetnant or embarrass him so much that he would retire from the succession... but it did neither and when things went to the point of a divorce, Charles was glad to end the marriage, not have to keep up appearances in public [...]

 

[MARG]

A lot of marriages don't work out. It's sad, especially when there are children involved, but it's the way it goes. I can't see that Charles and Diana would ever have got back together.

I quite agree. I have never understood why countless people have tried to ruin Charles by keeping an abiding hatred alive because he divorced the fairytale princess. In in point of fact, I don't really know who divorced whom since HM ordered them to divorce as the 'separation' was not helping anyone.

If it had been any other couple faced with the irretrievable breakdown of their marriage most people would have nodded their heads sagely and noted it was better for the children to be with their parents separately but happy than to live together with interminal bickering.

 

[Sandy345]

I quite agree. I have never understood why countless people have tried to ruin Charles by keeping an abiding hatred alive because he divorced the fairytale princess. In in point of fact, I don't really know who divorced whom since HM ordered them to divorce as the 'separation' was not helping anyone.

If it had been any other couple faced with the irretrievable breakdown of their marriage most people would have nodded their heads sagely and noted it was better for the children to be with their parents separately but happy than to live together with interminal bickering.

I always thought once the separation was announced divorce was inevitable.

 

[Osipi]

A lot of things could have been done differently and the course of history would have been changed. Just like if the science was available at the time of Henry VIII, perhaps his succession of wives would have been different as Henry would have known it was *his* fault he had problems siring a male heir.

In the situation of Charles and Diana, it takes two to make a marriage work or a marriage fail and there were many areas in the marriage that went together like oil and vinegar. It was what it was and both of them bear the responsibility for the marriage failing. ?

 

[Denville]

A lot of things could have been done differently and the course of history would have been changed. Just like if the science was available at the time of Henry VIII, perhaps his succession of wives would have been different as Henry would have known it was *his* fault he had problems siring a male heir.

In the situation of Charles and Diana, it takes two to make a marriage work or a marriage fail and there were many areas in the marriage that went together like oil and vinegar. It was what it was and both of them bear the responsibility for the marriage failing. ?

but it wasn't Henry's "fault." He fathered male children.. but only 2 survived into adulthood.. and some of Catherine's pregnancies ended in miscarriage or stillbirth. And it really doesn't chime with hte Charles and Diana situation all that much. #
And I think Charles and Diana were just bad luck waiting to happen. He needed to get married and rushed things.. and Diana wanted badly to marry well, and blinded herself to the fact that she had little in common with him or with the RF.... but on paper, they looked OK.. She was from a courtier's family, she was young, and seemed adaptable.. but truth is she wasn't adaptable.. and charles wasn't savvy enough to realise that she wasn't all that suited to royal life...