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  #2261  
Old 04-14-2017, 10:29 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Lady Nimue, we all know Diana had her own affairs. None of the those affairs really made her happy gave her that much comfort. She wanted love and comfort from her husband. Her downfall was she picked bad men.
Not according to Diana. She 'adored' Hewitt. We just have to look at the body language to see how smitten she was and how fully into it he was. He was her lap dog, I do believe, and during those years she presented in public as a radiant, in-love presence. She was happy. She was not pining away for love as best as I can see.

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She wasn't addicted by the love and comfort from the crowds.
Well, the evidence is to the contrary, I fear. She called up the press to let them know where she would be for photo-ops. I call that a kind of addiction.

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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
They liked her and she liked them. There's nothing wrong with forming a warm relationship with the public. She was their princess and they were her people.
Okay. Rock stars have that. Actors have that. Presidents and Popes have that. But none of it is 'real'. It's not intimate, personal life. Remember Janis Joplin's famous line about going home alone?

Also, 'wrongness' has nothing to do with any of it. A good rapport with a crowd is to be desired for anyone who stands in front of a crowd, else it's a lynch mob. But I wouldn't take that 'adulation' home to bed. A mistake. It's fickle, as she was experiencing.

Question: were they 'her people'? Weren't they actually The Queen's people first, then Charles' people? How could they be 'the consort's people'? If this is all true for Diana then it all must apply to Camilla, who has Diana's exact same status as Charles' wife. But I have a hunch you would not ascribe that to Camilla (not that she would even want to go down that road, that way of thinking about herself).

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When she passed, the public came out for her and said goodbye. To this day, people like to dismiss the real feelings the public felt about Diana and her tragic passing. They like calling it media hyped hysteria and such. It's was just plain love and grief for Diana.
Well, it was definitely a drama. Very karmic. Strange to watch then, strange to watch now on video.

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All the senior royals try to manage their PR. The royals love the good press and hate the bad press. It's a love/hate relationship that will carry on throughout the lives of the next generation of royals too. That's the reality of being a public figure.
Not like Diana did. She was unique as far as I can see.
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  #2262  
Old 04-15-2017, 01:01 AM
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Lady Nimue,

The guys Diana had in her life only gave her a short and false sense of happiness. Now I do think, had she loved, Diana would've found a stable relationship. It just was t in the cards for her though.

Yes, the people are the royals subjects. It's a good thing if the royals and people form a good relationship with each other. Diana enjoyed meeting members of the public, especially the elderly. There was no addiction but a good working and friendly relationship.

We'll just agree to disagree here.

Diana had ups and downs with PR like all public figures have. The royals PR are a funny thing.
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  #2263  
Old 04-15-2017, 01:23 AM
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It is one thing to have a good "presence" and be liked and accepted by the general public but its a total different ball of wax to obsess over the way one is looked at by the public and media. There have been many sources that stated that Diana kept a close eye on everything that was published about her and what every reporter said about her. It mattered greatly to her. Very few personages that have a big public presence obsess on their image as much as Diana did. In this respect, she was very narcissistic. The public and the media defined who she was to herself.

I find it kind of sad that Diana is remembered for all her good works and how she helped and cared about people. In her private life, I think one of her biggest troubles was being able to form a mature, loving relationship with all the give and takes and the compromises and such. Diana was too concerned about how people were treating her and how people weren't stacking up to what she wanted them to be and didn't have the insight to realize that it works both ways.
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  #2264  
Old 04-15-2017, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
James Gilbey. The two relationships over lapped a great deal. Though it us said Diana was never as close to Gilbey. Some recordings caused a scandal.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squidgygate
I don't believe this at all. I don't think that Diana was sexually involved with Gilbey and from what she says in the taped conversation, she is referring to her affiar with Hewitt as In the past.. that she "decked him out in fancy clothes" and it is well known that the affair broke for some time whle he was working abroad.. and that she and he got back together for a short time when he ahd been serving in the GUlf.
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  #2265  
Old 04-15-2017, 02:30 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I find it kind of sad that Diana is remembered for all her good works and how she helped and cared about people. In her private life, I think one of her biggest troubles was being able to form a mature, loving relationship with all the give and takes and the compromises and such. Diana was too concerned about how people were treating her and how people weren't stacking up to what she wanted them to be and didn't have the insight to realize that it works both ways.
I'd say that most people in the public eye obsess to a greater or lesser degree about how the public perceives them. It is necessary to an extent.. they need the publicity..
Plenty of actors, politicians etc are "narcisstic" if you like ot put it that way. it doesn't take away form their talents (if they have any).
I don't know why you think it is "sad" that she's remembered for her good works? Why would that be sad? She did do a lot of good, she was good to many people who have cause to be grateful to her for generous donations, personal kindnesses like visiting them in hospital or writing letters, etc. Things over and above the normal "charity royal" duties. Why is it sad that she is remembered for her good deeds? I would say that what is sad is that she's more remembered now for her weak points, such as her unhappy marriage, unhappy love affairs etc.
Yes she did have faults and weaknesses, she had psychological problems resulting IMO from a bad childhood, which left her vulnerable and she made a big mistake in believing that the only way she could fulfil herself was by marriage. She ended up in a high stress lifestyle and marriage that left her exposed to media attention.. so naturally when she found her marriage unfulfilling, and found the media attention was on her no matter what she did, she tried to manipulate it.. so as to keep herself admired by the public.
She was afraid that if her affairs became public knowledge, given that the world is still a sexist place, she would be blamed more for her affair with Hewitt than Charles would be blamed for his with Camilla so she did try more and more to manipulate the media and they are not that easy to handle. But in spite of her problems, she did a lot of good with her public life and with her boys, (while they are IMO nothing special) she was a good mother and helped them to develop and be royals for the 21st century, and one hopes to have a happy private life..
Considering that she was a fragile person, I tink she did a lot of good with her life.. so I don't know why it is sad that she is remembered for those good works.
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  #2266  
Old 04-15-2017, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
It is one thing to have a good "presence" and be liked and accepted by the general public but its a total different ball of wax to obsess over the way one is looked at by the public and media. There have been many sources that stated that Diana kept a close eye on everything that was published about her and what every reporter said about her. It mattered greatly to her. Very few personages that have a big public presence obsess on their image as much as Diana did. In this respect, she was very narcissistic. The public and the media defined who she was to herself.

I find it kind of sad that Diana is remembered for all her good works and how she helped and cared about people. In her private life, I think one of her biggest troubles was being able to form a mature, loving relationship with all the give and takes and the compromises and such. Diana was too concerned about how people were treating her and how people weren't stacking up to what she wanted them to be and didn't have the insight to realize that it works both ways.
The royals are always informed and read up about themselves in the media. William even mentioned this in one of his recent interviews. He knows what people say about him and those "workshy"comments. Some of the opinions goes out the window, and some they take to heart. Even The Queen reads the papers and magazines that feature the family. They care.

Diana was no different. She did care about what people said and thought about her. Many public figures do this.

The problem is people have tried to make it seem like Diana was some kind of unstable alien from another planet. She was a human being with lot of flaws like the rest of us. She had insecurities, eating issues, she had love and lost love. She went through some highs and lows of life. I think it was part of what made her so relatable to so many people. She wasn't a perfect princess who lived in some far away castle and who looked down on everybody. She had a way of letting everyone know that just because she had a title and all the trappings of royalty, her life wasn't all that together. Like most people on this planet.
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  #2267  
Old 04-15-2017, 04:23 AM
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Absolutely agree on that!

Of course the RF are fully up to speed on what is being written or said about them, daily, for the major members I imagine. Their staff teams have employees whose jobs are dedicated to ensuring this happens.

Nowadays it's fairly predictable, the waters are calm, no scuds on any horizon!

I imagine back during the War of the Wales years must have been a fairly hetic time for the then employees!

Agree with your concept of Diana also. She wasn't perfect (thank goodness! Who is?) and neither, on the other end of the extreme scale was she the bizarre, almost schizophrenic persona who crops up from time to time.

She had her issues (her marriage being a large one) and she handled them in her own way. Like all of us, sometimes good choices, sometimes bad. Only difference, ours don't tend to make the national press headlines!
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  #2268  
Old 04-16-2017, 08:15 PM
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I'm taking my mum to the Diana dress exhibition at Kensington Palace. The fact that it is being held at one of the Historic Royal Palaces goes to show that Diana has, and always will have, an important place in the history of the British royal family.

I'm pretty much 'over' all discussion of Diana being unsuitable etc as Charles's wife. Long story short it was anybody's fault but her's. Partly Charles but not even his fault really as he was just doing as he has been told. Had to marry a girl who was titled and a virgin. If not forced to that he could have married Camila in the first place. I'm just fed up of reading that Diana was to blame. She was just a teenager who fell in love and got dropped in at the deep end with no support. The royal family know that now, hence making sure not to make the same mistake with Kate Middleton.

As a big Diana fan I don't bear Camilla any grudge and I am glad Charles is happy and the Duchess does seem to be doing a good job.
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  #2269  
Old 04-16-2017, 08:40 PM
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So Diana was lying when she said that she was 50% to blame for the breakdown of her marriage - which she did.

If she can accept 50% of the blame why can't her fans?
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  #2270  
Old 04-16-2017, 08:45 PM
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Why did Diana and Charles not divorce sooner? Like the early 1990s as opposed to 1996?
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  #2271  
Old 04-16-2017, 08:49 PM
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Its a question that has gone round quite a few times. Check out the different threads in the Diana subforum.
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  #2272  
Old 04-16-2017, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
So Diana was lying when she said that she was 50% to blame for the breakdown of her marriage - which she did.

If she can accept 50% of the blame why can't her fans?
Her fans do accept that she is partly to blame for the breakdown of her marriage. I know I do.
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  #2273  
Old 04-16-2017, 10:34 PM
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I don't want to go round and round with this. I was just responding to something someone said on the other forum which this post was moved from about Diana being unsuitable as a wife for Charles. My main point was about the exhibition. I might have known people would pounce on my other statement. It's my opinion and my opinion only. I can see that this forum is not going to be as friendly as I assumed it was so I will probably bow out, but before I do I will just say:

She probably meant by 50/50 that her and Charles were both partly to blame. Out of two people if both are half, that has to be 50/50. She could hardly say the blame was with the establishment who wanted a good titled no-skeletens-in-the-closets brood mare. Plus of course somebody who suffers from self-loathing is going to try to take a lot of the blame. Having suffered from mental health problems including annorexia myself I do know what I am talking about (I weighed 60 pounds at my lowest and came close to dying, I am 5 feet 3.5 inches tall).
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  #2274  
Old 04-16-2017, 10:41 PM
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Oh, Squirrel, I am so sorry to hear that. You obviously have special insight into this condition, and I agree with you. I think Diana was valiant in performing all the engagements she did in her public life and helping others when she felt so low, so ill, so unappreciated by her husband.

Hope you enjoy the exhibition. I'd love to see it myself.
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  #2275  
Old 04-16-2017, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Her fans do accept that she is partly to blame for the breakdown of her marriage. I know I do.
The vast majority of her fans do not accept that she was in any way to blame for the breakdown of her marriage and accuse anyone who says so of all sorts of names. To most of her fans she is a saint who could do no wrong.

I have rarely encountered any fan of Diana who says she in any way contributed to the breakdown of the marriage and most of them want Charles to die before the Queen.

Diana's fans are some of the most hateful people I encounter on the internet and in person.

You are an exception.
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  #2276  
Old 04-16-2017, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The vast majority of her fans do not accept that she was in any way to blame for the breakdown of her marriage and accuse anyone who says so of all sorts of names. To most of her fans she is a saint who could do no wrong.

I have rarely encountered any fan of Diana who says she in any way contributed to the breakdown of the marriage and most of them want Charles to die before the Queen.

Diana's fans are some of the most hateful people I encounter on the internet and in person.

You are an exception.
Iluvbertie, I think one of the problems is that when folks talk about Charles and Diana and their marriage, the conversations often come out one-sided and unbalanced. One person is torn down and the other is built up or given a pass. This cannot happen. When we talk about this couple we must have a fair and balanced view. Also, we have to talk about facts and not base our comments and views on unfounded claims. A lot of what's been written about this couple are based on personal views and on unnamed sources. A lot of crap has stuck and is believed. We can't fall for that game.

Also, let's not always talk about the bad and sad years. It's very factual that Charles and Diana did love each other. They both agreed on the way to bring up their children and they had some good times as a couple. These things aren't widely talked about nor written. I think people don't find this part of the couple's married life exciting and sexy. A hell of a lot of money has been made on the backs and tonsils of Charles and Diana painful times. No one really want to talk about the happier days. That's wrong, unfair and very very silly.
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  #2277  
Old 04-16-2017, 11:39 PM
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Well I as a Diana fan don't​ want Charles to die before he gets to be king, and neither does my mother-in-law in the USA who is also a Diana fan. My MIL really likes Camilla too. She was here in the UK when Charles and Camilla got married and she wanted to go to their wedding. Unfortunately Windsor was too crowded to see anything so we went home.

I blame lack of support for the failure of the marriage of Charles and Diana. A 19 year old of divorced parents with not much education or life experience compared to Kate Middleton, who was 30 on marriage, had a degree, parents still together, close siblings, a long lead-up to the engagement and a couple of years before starting a family instead of a few months, it just doesn't compare. Plus nowadays people understand mental health problems and personal support much better than they did in the 1980s.

In the end maybe it wasn't anybody's fault, it could have been just the circumstances. I do wonder if it could have made a difference if Harry had been a girl. If it's true what has been said, Charles made his disappointment at having another boy pretty plain which upset Diana when she was obviously feeling very hormonal. Perhaps if he hadn't done that they'd have gone on to have more children including the daughter they both wanted.
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  #2278  
Old 04-17-2017, 12:37 AM
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Why did Diana and Charles not divorce sooner? Like the early 1990s as opposed to 1996?
Because the RF esp the queen and Q Mother were very reluctant to end the marriage officially. As you know, Charles would one day be Supreme GOvernor of the C Of E, and as such for him to divorce, after an affair, or marry a divorced woman, was considered to be something that would cause problems. So the queen kept hoping, clearly that the marriage could be "saved" as a formal arrangement.
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  #2279  
Old 04-17-2017, 02:48 AM
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Please note that discussion concerning Harry's recent interview have been moved to the http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post1977024 thread. This thread is for discussing the marriage of Charles and Diana.
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  #2280  
Old 04-18-2017, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Iluvbertie, I think one of the problems is that when folks talk about Charles and Diana and
Also, let's not always talk about the bad and sad years. It's very factual that Charles and Diana did love each other. They both agreed on the way to bring up their children and they had some good times as a couple. These things aren't widely talked about nor written. I think people don't find this part of the couple's married life exciting and sexy. A hell of a lot of money has been made on the backs and tonsils of Charles and Diana painful times. No one really want to talk about the happier days. That's wrong, unfair and very very silly.
I think they loved each other a bit.. She loved him, but in a childlike fairytale way.. and he loved her, but I think he never loved her deeply and that he soon fell out of love because he found her so hard to live with. I don't believe that they agreed all that much about the children..He wanted them to have a loving Mum, and to be more "cared for" at home and part of their home life than he had had..but he was conscious of their positon and felt perhaps that Di let them be too informal...
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