Charles and Diana - Page 103

Denville · #**2041** 09-22-2016, 07:00 AM

And how woudl her past not possibly come back and be a problem, if she were not a virgin? Davina Sheffield lived with someone who talked to the newspapers and that finished her romance with him.

As for Philip -as far as Im aware, it is quoted in charles's biography by Dimbleby that Philip wrote to him saying that he should get on with his romance with Diana, and I understand that Charles showed the letter to friends as an indication of Philip pressuring him.

Mermaid1962 · #**2042** 09-22-2016, 02:08 PM

Sophie denied in the interview just before their wedding that they had lived together. She kept her own apartment. It seemed to me to be more a situation that she had free access to Edward's suite and could go there whenever she wanted. She was photographed leaving early in the morning and so no doubt spent nights there.

Yes, Charles had that letter that he carried around with him. From what I remember, those who saw it said that it wasn't an ultimatum but more advice from a father to his son. Prince Charles has always had a "woe is me" side, and so I think that he chose to interpret the letter as paternal bullying.

Denville · #**2043** 09-22-2016, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962

Sophie denied in the interview just before their wedding that they had lived together. She kept her own apartment. It seemed to me to be more a situation that she had free access to Edward's suite and could go there whenever she wanted. She was photographed leaving early in the morning and so no doubt spent nights there.

Yes, Charles had that letter that he carried around with him. From what I remember, those who saw it said that it wasn't an ultimatum but more advice from a father to his son. Prince Charles has always had a "woe is me" side, and so I think that he chose to interpret the letter as paternal bullying.

well she's problaby not going to say that too loudly. But I have seen articles in the paper at the time by conservative commentators saying that the queen should not have allowed him to live with Sophie.. SHe probably kept an apartment - why not? I Understand that Kate too kept an apartment but mostly lived with William.
Well Im glad that you agree that Phil did write a letter which Charles showed ot friends. It may not have literally been an ultimatum but it clearly was Philip giving some "advice" and probalby wording it strongly.. and saying (which was IMO fair comment), that if C didn't sort things out with Diana and get himself engaged.. that it would look bad and that if he let her go, and had to start again and find anothter young woman, sooner or later there would be noone left, unless he was going to marry someone more than 20 years his junior.

Curryong · #**2044** 09-22-2016, 05:29 PM

I don't think it went so far as that, even. AFAIR Bradford in her Diana biography, having got the gist of the letter from one or two of those who saw it, said that Philip was a bit impatient but the letter was temperate and reasonable. It supposedly said that Diana was only a very young woman and had been spotted at Balmoral etc by the Press, (who were by then going quite wild with excitement.) Therefore, (the letter went on to say, apparently) Charles should make up his mind sooner rather than later as to whether he was serious about Lady Diana, as otherwise her reputation might well be damaged.

Denville · #**2045** 09-23-2016, 12:55 AM

I think that Charles interepreted it as pushing him.. because it was. Phil is a bully and he's impatient with Charles. And C knew that it was time for him to marry. he knew that Diana was in terms of breeding, reputation etc a perfect wife for him and that it was true that if he let her go, he would have to start and find antother girl to marry, and the next well bred Protestant virgin might be younger, less pretty, less sweet..
I find it hard to believe that anyone thought Di's reputation would be damaged by a perfectly respectable courtship with the heir to the throne. But I think it would haven been a bit of bad press for C if he'd gone out with Di whom the papers adored by then, for some months and then dropped her..
and I think that he knew that if he did let Diana go, Phil would probably be on his back then and saying "Come on, Charles make your mind up. YOu let that Di Spencer girl go, everyone was cross with you and now you're 32 for Gods sake, its time you got married."
Because He HAD reached an age where he relaly had to decide, and get himself wed. and I think he did have an attraction to Diana, liked her..but had a few doubts and fears and was probably uneasily conscious that he still cared a lot for Camilla. and that if he let this perfect young woman go, Phil and even the queen might start gioing on to him about it..

Denville · #**2046** 09-23-2016, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirabel

Much is made of Charles' devotion to Camilla; I think that is true now, but back then?
There were many, many other women in his life, it's not like Camilla was the one and only.
The rivalry and hostility between Camilla and Kanga Tryon was notorious in that circle.

Plus there were others, like Whiplash Wallace, Jane Wellesley, and Davina Sheffield.

So I really don't think it was Charles' love for Camilla that sabotaged his marriage to Diana. I believe the problems in the marriage drove him back into Camilla's arms, but before that, I think he and Diana simply didn't mesh the way they'd hoped.

Yes there had been other women in Chalres' life. Thats quite Normal IMO. But Camilla was the one he kept going back to, as a friend or a lover.
I beleive that he was very attracted to Anna Wallace but I dont think she was a serious candidate for a wife.. Nor was Jane Wellesley. I think that these were physical relationships, passionate but short lived.
And when the marriage to Diana went wrong, it was Camilla he turned to, not any of his other old girlfriends. Im not saying it was "the perfect love" because it wasnt.. noone has a perfect love. But I think that it was the one that was really special.
I believe that with a girl he was fond of, who hadnt got Di's problems, Charles would have put aside Camilla and grown to love her.
But that wasn't what he got..and he needed Cam to be his confidante..

I think he WANTED to love Diana, did up to a point but basically once they were married her problems kicked in and became huge ones.. and he just found it very hard to live with someone bulimic, who was ill and bad tempered and moody and unhappy, and who refused to get help.
And Sadly I think the whole marriage etc really added to the damage in Dianas psyche, and she became a very difficult person..

Katrianna · #**2047** 09-24-2016, 01:02 AM

I remember a Daily Mail article (yes, I know) I read some months before Charles and Camilla wed that stated during the time the couple had a serious relationship when Camilla was still single, Charles dithered around trying to make up his mind whether to ask Camilla to marry him. The story went on to state that Charles, instead chose to take on a naval assignment that would have out to sea for a while. That Charles dithered so much, Camilla grew tired of Charles lack of decision and soon took up with Andrew Parker-Bowles whom she had known and was friends with. When they married, Charles was devastated.
The article then stated Charles behaved in the same manner with Diana, he dithered around on the question of proposing marriage and that's when Prince Philip "supposedly" became impatient with his son and wrote/told his son to stop shilly-shallying and propose to Diana.
As I write, this was per the DM, not a wholly reliable or believable source for accurate accounts.

Denville · #**2048** 09-24-2016, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katrianna

I The article then stated Charles behaved in the same manner with Diana, he dithered around on the question of proposing marriage and that's when Prince Philip "supposedly" became impatient with his son and wrote/told his son to stop shilly-shallying and propose to Diana.
As I write, this was per the DM, not a wholly reliable or believable source for accurate accounts.

That story has been around before Katrianna, I think its in the film version of "Diana her true story" and possibly Andrew Morton has it In the book, I dont know.
I don't really think it is likely. Maybe Charles did think of proposing to Camilla, but I think he realised that there would be difficulty in getting permission because of her past, and she was also heavily involved with Andrew PB.. not exactly the ideal situation for a future queen that she's been having an affair with a notorious womaniser and seems to be as much in love with him as with her royal suitor. So I don't really believe that Charles seriously thought of marrying her. But its certain that when she married Andrew PB he was upset and felt devastated.. Perhaps he hoped that she'd remain single and be around for him, for a longer time.
And I think that back then Camilla was fond of her prince but wasn't as much in love with him.. she was in love with Andrew and hoped to persuade him to marry her. and I believe she wasn't interested in a public life either, and would have been reluctant.. maybe not totally unwilling but would have not been very sure about giving up her freedom for a lifetime of cutting ribbons..

Katrianna · #**2049** 09-24-2016, 07:32 PM

Thank you, to me, it didn't seem possible that Charles actually pondered about proposing to Camilla during those early years for the precise reasons you've mentioned again in your post. Camilla was and still is a country life woman and I'm sure would not have relished the "royal life and spotlight" and she surely would not have liked the press scrutiny of her sexual backround if she had accepted a proposal of marriage from Charles. She had her sights set on Andrew Parker-Bowles and the quiet country life that came with such a marriage.
As we all know by now, Charles and Camilla married another person, but as history would have it, life took a different turn than it should have, especially for Charles and his marriage to a beautiful popular aristocratic girl.

Denville · #**2050** 09-25-2016, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katrianna

Thank you, to me, it didn't seem possible that Charles actually pondered about proposing to Camilla during those early years for the precise reasons you've mentioned again in your post.marriage.
.

I think she also loved Andrew much more than Charles then. I think that she got fed up with Andrew within a while, not enough to break up with him, but annoyed at his constant womanising. It was probably amusing before they got married but hurtful and tiring to cope with when they were married.
I think at first Charles was someone she was very fond of, and it was a thrill to be the Princes' girlfriend, but she didn't want to marry him. and she problably would not have been OKed by the queen.
but gradually I think that she grew to love Charles more and while still fond of Andrew, she was annoyed by him more and turned to C for the affection and devotion that And didn't give her.
I know Charles is a ditherer, and maybe he DID dither about "I love Camilla, maybe she would be a good person to marry"... but I don't think he was very committed to the idea. I certainly don't think he went off ot sea and Camilla decided not to wait for him...

Dee Anna · #**2051** 09-25-2016, 07:10 AM

I do believe Charles was the one for Diana. Sadly, the same sentiment wss not returned.

Had she cared less (and if so why bother?!) her life could have been very different.

Prince Charles was the love of Princess Diana's life, her close friend claims

Lee-Z · #**2052** 09-25-2016, 07:35 AM

I'm glad Charles and Diana patched things up somewhat after their divorce and actually got along prior to her much-too-early death

Very unfortunate that some who think they are "cherishing her memory" continue to try to polarize history...

Denville · #**2053** 09-25-2016, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee-Z

I'm glad Charles and Diana patched things up somewhat after their divorce and actually got along prior to her much-too-early death

Very unfortunate that some who think they are "cherishing her memory" continue to try to polarize history...

I don't think they did. A bit yes, but I don't think that Di had reached any real acceptance of Charles' being with Camilla... I think she was polite for the sake of the boys, and because people were getting a bit fed up with the whole drama and if she had continued to look as if she was still at odds with him, she might put the public off her.
Charles was I would say the same. He had got to a point of very very fed up iwht her and maybe as the divorce went through, he began to lose the resentment and anger.. but it was just happening gradually.

Mermaid1962 · #**2054** 09-27-2016, 03:19 AM

Yes, I can't imagine all the pain and hurt feelings going away once the divorce went through. Had Diana lived into middle age and beyond after the divorce, perhaps they could have become warm friends again. However, had Charles married Camilla while Diana was alive, even years after the divorce, I think that Diana might have had a problem with her having any kind of relationship with William and Harry. I think that it would depend on whether Diana found a good man and established a stable relationship or marriage of her own, perhaps with another child or two. A dream situation would have been Diana and Charles with their new respective spouses and happy at their sons' weddings. That would have been a "happily ever after" in itself. However, life taking the turns that it did, that wasn't to be.

Denville · #**2055** 09-27-2016, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962

Yes, I can't imagine all the pain and hurt feelings going away once the divorce went through. Had Diana lived into middle age and beyond after the divorce, perhaps they could have become warm friends again. However, had Charles married Camilla while Diana was alive, even years after the divorce, I think that Diana might have had a problem with her having any kind of relationship with William and Harry.

I find it hard to see Diana reaching that degree of calm and maturity. Perhaps because before her death she was in a volatile state... and I think that the scars on her personality caused by her childhood and aggravated by her long unhappy marriage meant she was too needy to find a very settled relationship.

And I think it would have been some years before she got over the anger at the Camilla situation...

AdmirerUS · #**2056** 09-27-2016, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville

...And I think it would have been some years before she got over the anger at the Camilla situation...

Well, I think by some of what we write, WE have not gotten over the Camilla situation - and we were not even in the relationship.

Mermaid1962 · #**2057** 09-27-2016, 03:30 PM

Yes, agreed re the Camilla situation. It would have taken a very long time for Diana to recover from that.

Mbruno · #**2058** 09-27-2016, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville

I find it hard to see Diana reaching that degree of calm and maturity. Perhaps because before her death she was in a volatile state... and I think that the scars on her personality caused by her childhood and aggravated by her long unhappy marriage meant she was too needy to find a very settled relationship.

And I think it would have been some years before she got over the anger at the Camilla situation...

I doubt Charles would have married Camilla if Diana were still alive. It would have been considered too risky for the future of the monarchy and the Queen would not have allowed it unless Charles renounced his succession rights, which in turn would have required an act of parliament and all the complicated ratification process in the other Commonwealth realms that we saw with the recent Succession to the Crown Act 2013.

Duc_et_Pair · #**2059** 09-27-2016, 06:06 PM

Divorce is divorce. The Queen's own daughter divorced too and in the same year of divorce remarried while her first husband was still alive, so the precedent was there, allowing her child to remarry someone else.

MARG · #**2060** 09-27-2016, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno

I doubt Charles would have married Camilla if Diana were still alive. It would have been considered too risky for the future of the monarchy and the Queen would not have allowed it unless Charles renounced his succession rights, which in turn would have required an act of parliament and all the complicated ratification process in the other Commonwealth realms that we saw with the recent Succession to the Crown Act 2013.

I really don't think the Queen would have denied his right to remarry. As to making it conditional on him renouncing his succession rights, no way would she have acted in a way that split her family and endanger the monarchy.

The other thing you have to remember, and that seems to always be permanently ignored or glossed over, before Diana's death her behaviour was such that questions were asked in Parliament about who's paying for her 'lifestyle' as illustrated by the photo of her in her aqua bathing suit sitting on the end of the diving board, alternately doing the "lonely me" and the "lucky me" poses. Nothing like mixed messages.

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