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  #801  
Old 09-03-2017, 12:46 PM
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I sincerely hope no one will be offended by what I'm about to write, because that is in no way my intention.

Looking at Diana, her life, death and legacy from a more detached point of view, it fascinates and indeed puzzles me.
Considering the veneration there is for Diana among a lot of people, she clearly left of void that even now a generation later, has not been filled by any other member of the BRF.
Not even her children, who you should think would be obvious heirs of her legacy. AFAICT As far as I can tell not even team W&K - with children - has taken over from Diana. And they are at the age where Diana was pretty much at her zenith.

I wonder: Do you think anyone could ever fill that void Diana left, in the minds of those who followed her while she was alive? Or has she become, so to speak, Saint Diana? I.e. almost deified, so that no one and nothing could ever fill her shoes or even be equal to her, let alone supersede her?
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  #802  
Old 09-03-2017, 01:10 PM
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Nobody want to 'fill that void'. They don't need one more royal causing unhealthy reactions.
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  #803  
Old 09-03-2017, 01:12 PM
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To be honest Muhler, I don't think we'll ever see the likes of Diana again and most certainly there is no one that would want to aspire to be iconic and deemed "the most popular in the world". When looking at the life and times of Diana, one thing that cannot be said about her is that she was 100% a team player for the good of the monarchy. In a way, I think we could almost say she had a bit of Henrik in her and wanted to make herself heard.

We do see Diana's legacy kept alive with her sons as they both are dedicated to continuing work that she started and keep it alive. What we won't see is any of the British royals rising to iconic personal stardom because, as we've seen so far, the younger royals focus more on being a team and put the monarchy ahead of their own personalities. What we're also seeing now is a steadfast drawing of the lines in the sand as far as their private lives are concerned. They will do all they can to assure that their private lives are never turned into a public soap opera.
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  #804  
Old 09-03-2017, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I sincerely hope no one will be offended by what I'm about to write, because that is in no way my intention.

Looking at Diana, her life, death and legacy from a more detached point of view, it fascinates and indeed puzzles me.
Considering the veneration there is for Diana among a lot of people, she clearly left of void that even now a generation later, has not been filled by any other member of the BRF.
Not even her children, who you should think would be obvious heirs of her legacy. AFAICT As far as I can tell not even team W&K - with children - has taken over from Diana. And they are at the age where Diana was pretty much at her zenith.

I wonder: Do you think anyone could ever fill that void Diana left, in the minds of those who followed her while she was alive? Or has she become, so to speak, Saint Diana? I.e. almost deified, so that no one and nothing could ever fill her shoes or even be equal to her, let alone supersede her?
I think there has been a deliberate attempt, by the Royal Family in general and William, Kate and Harry especially, to steer clear of another round of Di-mania. None of them want that attention.
The intense interest in Diana, which I think she fanned and enjoyed when she thought she was controlling it, exploded when she died too young and still very attractive. She became larger than life in death like Marilyn Monroe and Elvis Presley.
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  #805  
Old 09-03-2017, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I sincerely hope no one will be offended by what I'm about to write, because that is in no way my intention.

Looking at Diana, her life, death and legacy from a more detached point of view, it fascinates and indeed puzzles me.
Considering the veneration there is for Diana among a lot of people, she clearly left of void that even now a generation later, has not been filled by any other member of the BRF.
Not even her children, who you should think would be obvious heirs of her legacy. AFAICT As far as I can tell not even team W&K - with children - has taken over from Diana. And they are at the age where Diana was pretty much at her zenith.

I wonder: Do you think anyone could ever fill that void Diana left, in the minds of those who followed her while she was alive? Or has she become, so to speak, Saint Diana? I.e. almost deified, so that no one and nothing could ever fill her shoes or even be equal to her, let alone supersede her?
No one can fill the void that Diana left behind. No one should be expecting the Cambridge's and Harry to do so.

William and Harry have drawn on some inspiration from their mother and will continue to carry on her legacy and memory. That's all they can do.
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  #806  
Old 09-03-2017, 01:49 PM
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Why would we want another ??? SO divisive in her effect.
Dianophiles find it hard to recognise the fact but she was, and remains a deeply divisive figure, as this recent anniversary has shown ALL too clearly
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  #807  
Old 09-03-2017, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Why would we want another ??? SO divisive in her effect.
Dianophiles find it hard to recognise the fact but she was, and remains a deeply divisive figure, as this recent anniversary has shown ALL too clearly
Not true at all. Her name is used by others to divide people. She's been gone to 20 years, but people have capitalized off of her for over 20 years and done so to spread their own personal agenda.
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  #808  
Old 09-03-2017, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Not true at all. Her name is used by others to divide people. She's been gone to 20 years, but people have capitalized off of her for over 20 years and done so to spread their own personal agenda.
Dman, I know you admire Diana greatly, but to say it is "not true at all" that she was divisive is putting your head in the sand. She was directly involved in Andrew Morton's book about her among other things.

Diana's children loved her and miss her. She did charitable things, whether to help others, make herself look good or feel good or a combination of all these things no one will know--but she did help people. But she was not a saint and had her personal demons that made her behave in ways that didn't always support the royal family.
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  #809  
Old 09-03-2017, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
To be honest Muhler, I don't think we'll ever see the likes of Diana again and most certainly there is no one that would want to aspire to be iconic and deemed "the most popular in the world". When looking at the life and times of Diana, one thing that cannot be said about her is that she was 100% a team player for the good of the monarchy. In a way, I think we could almost say she had a bit of Henrik in her and wanted to make herself heard.

never turned into a public soap opera.
I think that we wont see another Diana partly because she was an unusual person,and that doesn't happen that often. She had a fascination and charm that wasn't to do with talent or even her looks.. it was something special about her that made the camera love her and attracted people to her. She used that gift badly at times and at times well. but I think that among todays royals they are I'm sure very wary of any of them "watnting to be another Diana" because - well isn't it obvious? her life ended in tragedy. Her charm and beauty attracted people, and had the press chasing her all the time. And her more volatile side meant that instead of insisting on proper protection for herself, she refused to have protection, and ended up relyng on the haphazard security of the Fayed family, which caused her death. Why would anyone want that?
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  #810  
Old 09-03-2017, 02:17 PM
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With respect, Dman, you live abroad to I assume you aren't British ?

MANY people here, including staunch monarchists were unhappy [during her marriage] by her tendency to court publicity, when essentially the role of a consort is to support their spouse in the leading role THEY have..
Her popularity SO clearly 'went to her head'. As the marriage deteriorated things got worse, and her manipulation of any weapon at her disposal with it...

I will say no more, but truly there is truth in what I say.
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  #811  
Old 09-03-2017, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Dman, I know you admire Diana greatly, but to say it is "not true at all" that she was divisive is putting your head in the sand. She was directly involved in Andrew Morton's book about her among other things.

Diana's children loved her and miss her. She did charitable things, whether to help others, make herself look good or feel good or a combination of all these things no one will know--but she did help people. But she was not a saint and had her personal demons that made her behave in ways that didn't always support the royal family.
O-H Anglophile,

Outside of the media, no one is interested in making Diana into a saint. Yes, I admired Diana, but just because I'm a fan, doesn't make me blind to her past choices. One can argue over what was right or wrong, but I do understand that a separation between a husband and wife isn't always pretty. When there's lots of hurt, pain and bitterness involved, spouses can end up saying and doing anything to get back at each other. Separations and divorces can get ugly.

It all ended in August 1996.

There's still an issue though. The media and folks online have this obsession with the ins and outs of Charles and Diana's bad separation and divorce. Although Diana has been gone for 20 years, Charles has remarried and their sons have their own lives, the media and some folks have never let go of the past. It's like they want to resurrect all that hurt and pain for their own agendas.

Diana isn't a dark shadow over the royal family. It's the people who are using her name as a mask to hide behind and to sow the seeds of division and divide people into the Chuck and Di camps.

It's just time to celebrate Diana's life and legacy by being good people to others and help those in need. Diana used her royal position to do this and it's why I and so many others look back to her for a source of inspiration not sadness.

I'm going to donate money to her charities and keep myself updated on their progress in this Anniversary year.
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  #812  
Old 09-03-2017, 03:19 PM
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Diana: She damaged and turned a revered institution into her own soap opera, attacked her husband on television, embarrassing and treating the Queen like crap (calling the royal family for germans) and putting the future of her own sons at risk. And she did nothing for charity compared to Charles and other members of the family. Thats her legacy.

Her popularity: Very popular in the 80's and right after the separation in 1992, but not beloved as the Queen has been through the most of her amazing reign.

Before her death: Divisive and controversial.

Polls: There wasn't many approval ratings or 'most admired persons in the UK' polls in the 80s and 90s, but we had the 'most popular royal polls' from Ipsos.

Diana was behind Charles and the Queen, but before the Queen Mother in April 1984, she was on top in January 1994, and fourth behind Anne, the Queen and the Queen Mother in December 1994.

In the polls right after her death she was sixth beheind the Queen, Anne, the Queen Mother, Charles and Andrew in October 1998 and she was seventh beheind the Queen, Charles, Anne, William, the Queen Mother and Andrew in April 2001.

And to those very few people who said that Diana was the most popular person in the world, they don't listen to facts (as a british commentator said). Diana has barely been mentioned in the British press after the 10th anniversary of her death in 2007 and brits at my age didn't even know/care about her before this 20th anniversary year.

Diana was famous because she was married to Charles and she is just a small part of the success story and brand Elizabeth II (or Elizabeth the Great as some commentators have called her) and her history making and record breaking reign.

William: 2010-2013 - Very popular, more than Diana (according to the polls) and even more than what Harry is now - why? Because he wasn't criticized by the press.

Now - Criticized, but popular/liked with approval ratings at 75 to 80%.

When he is monarch: Likely to be quite popular (much more than his father), but not beloved as HM.

Kate: 2010-2013 - Very popular - why? Because she was almost not criticized by the press.

Now - Criticized, but still popular/liked by a UK majority.

Harry: Very popular (but not beloved) - why? Charismatic and good with people, but mostly because he has hardly been criticized in recent years.

Some other facts:

The Queen: Head of state of 16 countries, figurehead of 2 billion people, the most beloved/admired person in the UK and many other countries, is the only icon of the BRF in modern times and is as Obama said last year ''a real jewel to the world.''

She has been called things like ''The People's Queen, Queen of Hearts'' etc (even on the front pages of british papers for her 80th and 90th birthdays and Diamond Jubilee in 2012) long before Diana was hailed the People's Princess by Blair in 1997 after her death (she was never known as that while she was alive).

And to some of the very few ardent Diana fans here - why haven't you anything good to say about Charles or William.

If people ask me to say something positive about Diana? Then I will say that she tried to be a good mother. And that she had good people skills, but so has Charles, William, and Harry (I will actually say more than Diana), and it was the Queen (not Diana) who started with the walkabouts in 1970 and did it until 2012.

I went through the popularity of the Queen and other members of the BRF in this post:
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post2003377
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  #813  
Old 09-03-2017, 04:47 PM
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A few books:

https://media.bookbub.com/blog/2017/...a-anniversary/

Thirteen Books about Diana
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  #814  
Old 09-03-2017, 04:51 PM
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Diana, Princess of Wales' legacy will always be in the headlines because she was a complex woman who rose to become the third highest ranking woman in the U.K. for fifteen years, and died due to an overbearing media and a distrusting ex-husband who failed to protect her and her legacy in a sense.

However, her sons, daughter-in-law, grandchildren, and family members are the ones who could fulfill her legacy with the charities work, etc.
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  #815  
Old 09-03-2017, 05:10 PM
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Diana's legacy does live on in her sons as they continue some of the work that she started during her lifetime. They also (along with the rest of the royal family) have their own interests and support charities of the own and are not going to back charities just because Diana did.

Its sad but the actual reason Diana died officially was not for the reasons you've stated but because she failed to wear her seat belt and had a drunk driver. Its a big lesson we all should learn from and before a car moves, buckle up tight and secure. It may save your life.
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  #816  
Old 09-03-2017, 05:34 PM
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And if there is a problem with the seat belt as some people claim then get out of the car and insist on another one brought that has a working seat belt. It was her decision to not do up her seat belt, her decision to get in a car with an unqualified driver at that level, to not go through the front door and have a photo taken with Dodi.

She had other options but chose the wrong ones and paid the price.
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  #817  
Old 09-03-2017, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I am glad to discuss Diana but I find it very frustrating because one is caught between people who hated her and wont ever hear anything good of her.. and people who idolised her and criticise everything that's said about her unless it is 110% adoring of her.

So one gets to have to make the same points overand again and can never have a decent interesting discussion.
I feel the same way regarding discussions of Diana. I would love to be able to have a calm and balanced discussion. I would love to make some observations regarding her and ask for people's thoughts, but I know what I would like to say would be taken wrong and blown out of proportion, so it is not even worth it, as I recently learned regarding some observations I made. Also, I understand that it is easier to have a verbal conversation where a person's facial expressions and voice tone can be seen and heard so that the intention of the statements is better understood, but we don't have that here. I wish we could just assume the best in a person's statements and if there is some misunderstanding, questions could be asked and not taken the wrong way. And this is coming from someone (me) who used to idolize her, but has now over the years developed a more balanced view.
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  #818  
Old 09-03-2017, 05:52 PM
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When Diana was at her peak it was a very different world, Muhler. It was a print-media-driven world of newspapers and glossy magazines that women bought religiously every week. Many had Diana on their front covers week after week, the papers several times a week.

There were no online media sites or Twitter etc with anons sitting behind computer screens ready to criticise and dissect. I adored Diana and I'm still a fan. I think she was a charasmatic figure who drew others to her and as Denvile said, that's pretty unusual, even in the celebrity world. She changed the way the BRF were and are. However, the particular times in which she was an adored and idealised Princess of Wales aren't ever likely to recurr.
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  #819  
Old 09-03-2017, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
Diana, Princess of Wales' legacy will always be in the headlines because she was a complex woman who rose to become the third highest ranking woman in the U.K. for fifteen years, and died due to an overbearing media and a distrusting ex-husband who failed to protect her and her legacy in a sense.

However, her sons, daughter-in-law, grandchildren, and family members are the ones who could fulfill her legacy with the charities work, etc.
What? Charles certainly had and has his faults, but to blame him for Diana's death is just pure wrong, and why should Charles protect Diana's legacy?

I for one is so tired of that legacy talking when it comes to Diana. Yes, she did some charity work, but so does other members of the family, and that is expected of them. And remember, Diana lived a life in luxury because of the BRF and continued to do that after her divorce.

And if people still can call her popular after reading my above post, then those people don't listen to polls or facts.

About the above post: I hope it was readable without too many writing errors, because it went very fast when I wrote it, and thanks to those who used the thanks button.
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  #820  
Old 09-03-2017, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
When Diana was at her peak it was a very different world, Muhler. It was a print-media-driven world of newspapers and glossy magazines that women bought religiously every week. Many had Diana on their front covers week after week, the papers several times a week.

There were no online media sites or Twitter etc with anons sitting behind computer screens ready to criticise and dissect. I adored Diana and I'm still a fan. I think she was a charasmatic figure who drew others to her and as Denvile said, that's pretty unusual, even in the celebrity world. She changed the way the BRF were and are. However, the particular times in which she was an adored and idealised Princess of Wales aren't ever likely to recurr.
That's true! Even over here in DK. During the 80's and early 90's there was hardly a week without Diana being on the cover of at least one magazine!
(It changed somewhat when Alexandra married Joachim, but that's another story.)

I can't help thinking the, admittedly pretty morbid and cynical, thought that one major reason for Diana being remembered so fondly by so many and why this thread is so alive and well, is that she died before she "self-destructed" or more correctly before she became human.
It's similar to other icons of their time who died, often dramatically (perhaps that's a factor as well?), before they had time to fall. So now they are forever legends and indeed icons.

Like other icons who died too early, would Diana's memory have been the same had she died last year? Would her public reputation have been ruined by her behavior? I.e. would she have self-destructed. Would the "public sympathy-pendulum" have swung towards Charles by now? So that he would now be much more popular than he is today. Would Charles even have been able to marry Camilla, with a living and "betrayed" Diana still being around? Would she still have made a difference for so many? Would she still be idolized? I don't think she would have faded away - or being allowed to fade away.
These are big what-ifs.
That's what I find so fascinating from indeed a detached point of view.
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