The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #681  
Old 08-26-2017, 01:44 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,152
There are a lot of books out there on Diana and they are written by people that have researched her, have known her and have worked for her. My advice is to read quite a few of them and form your own opinion of what you feel rings true to you and what doesn't. If I had to suggest the top three of the books I've read on Diana they would be:

1. Diana in Search of Herself: Portrait of a Troubled Princess by Sally Bedell Smith.

2. The Housekeeper's Diary by Wendy Berry

3. Diana: Closely Guarded Secret by Ken Wharfe

The reason I picked these three is because the first one is written by a woman that is an excellent biographer in my opinion. She did her research very well and talked with a lot of people that knew Diana. The other two are people that knew Diana by working with her or for her and, to me, are unbiased.

Of course this is just my opinion on reading material. Others here may have other favorites for their own personal reasons. There is a *lot* of information out there if you look for it.
__________________

__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #682  
Old 08-26-2017, 03:16 PM
cepe's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,333
THe Daily Mail has an article re Hilary Mantel's great piece. Im not giving the link.

The twitter link is headlined:

Hilary Mantel says Diana was 'squirming, twitching' in last interviews.

Thats it! As a position statement which is normally what a headline is.

Mailonline have done a hatchet job on Mantel before.
__________________

__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #683  
Old 08-26-2017, 03:27 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
'Archive on 4'

Diana- Her life backwards'

BBC Radio 4 - Archive on 4, Diana: A Life Backwards
Reply With Quote
  #684  
Old 08-26-2017, 03:59 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 8,910
Mantel is a staunch republican. Not saying it disqualifies her from commenting on Diana but I'm putting it out there for the sake of transparency.
Reply With Quote
  #685  
Old 08-26-2017, 04:15 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
THe Daily Mail has an article re Hilary Mantel's great piece. Im not giving the link.

The twitter link is headlined:

Hilary Mantel says Diana was 'squirming, twitching' in last interviews.

Thats it! As a position statement which is normally what a headline is.

Mailonline have done a hatchet job on Mantel before.
In the process of writing that headline, the Fail also is doing a hatchet job on Diana. Shows the quality of that publication doesn't it? Its sad that the reason this publication is still in business is because there are people out there that feed on this kind of thing.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #686  
Old 08-26-2017, 04:26 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 8,164
its a tabloid newspaper. they are not quality journalism... Peopele read them for a light read....
Reply With Quote
  #687  
Old 08-26-2017, 04:45 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
Quote:
read them for a light read....
I disagree, people read them for re-enforcement of their views [or in case of the 'fail'] prejudices !
Reply With Quote
  #688  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:20 PM
Nico's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
In the process of writing that headline, the Fail also is doing a hatchet job on Diana. Shows the quality of that publication doesn't it? Its sad that the reason this publication is still in business is because there are people out there that feed on this kind of thing.
Some so called "Diana experts", like Richard kay, are behind the Mail and they used the late Princess as a cash machine for years ...
Reply With Quote
  #689  
Old 08-26-2017, 06:21 PM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 9,736
It seems to me that the Daily Fail is almost even handed in their handling of hate when it comes to Diana. Charles, Camilla and anyone that has written a dispassionate book about her are all routinely trashed. Morton is magic and Dimbleby is trash, and so on.

Basically, Diana is a cash cow they have milked for 25 - 30 years and I can't see that changing. Hillary Mantel's article is not so different to the position that the DF take so I can't see them seriously attacking her.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #690  
Old 08-26-2017, 06:28 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 15,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
It seems to me that the Daily Fail is almost even handed in their handling of hate when it comes to Diana. Charles, Camilla and anyone that has written a dispassionate book about her are all routinely trashed. Morton is magic and Dimbleby is trash, and so on.

Basically, Diana is a cash cow they have milked for 25 - 30 years and I can't see that changing. Hillary Mantel's article is not so different to the position that the DF take so I can't see them seriously attacking her.
I do agree. Some members of the media have been milking everything out of Diana for many years. It's rather sickening.
__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
  #691  
Old 08-26-2017, 08:13 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 13,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
Are there any books on Charles and Diana's relationship that are credible? I would like to read one but I want to avoid those that take sides.
Not going to happen. Historians are by their very nature biased even when looking at things from the ancient past based on their own backgrounds, religious beliefs etc.

The biggest mistake many people make when looking at biographies is thinking that such a thing as an unbiased account is possible. Historians have to choose what sources to use and what to leave out - the question then has to be 'why did they choose that one and not the other one?' That is already showing a bias for one side or the other.

You need to read four or five from each side and then make up your own mind - and even then you will choose bits and pieces from each one to use to make up your mind - it is human nature.
Reply With Quote
  #692  
Old 08-26-2017, 08:15 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 13,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Some so called "Diana experts", like Richard kay, are behind the Mail and they used the late Princess as a cash machine for years ...
The DM was nicknamed the 'Di Mail' in the 1990s and Richard Kay was Diana's tame reporter. He was the one with the 'scoops' because she rang him and told him where she would be, especially with the boys.
Reply With Quote
  #693  
Old 08-26-2017, 10:12 PM
duchessrachel's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Birmingham, United States
Posts: 1,072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
None of them will be unbiased ...however if you want their personal thoughts/views read the two they were directly involved in (the Morton and Dimbley books).

Past that there's dozens of them out there (Her former bodyguard wrote one, Wharfe). Not sure I'd give them too much weight though...again, just opinion.



LaRae
Thanks. I have read the Morton book and plan to read the Dimbley book.
Reply With Quote
  #694  
Old 08-26-2017, 10:12 PM
duchessrachel's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Birmingham, United States
Posts: 1,072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
There are a lot of books out there on Diana and they are written by people that have researched her, have known her and have worked for her. My advice is to read quite a few of them and form your own opinion of what you feel rings true to you and what doesn't. If I had to suggest the top three of the books I've read on Diana they would be:

1. Diana in Search of Herself: Portrait of a Troubled Princess by Sally Bedell Smith.

2. The Housekeeper's Diary by Wendy Berry

3. Diana: Closely Guarded Secret by Ken Wharfe

The reason I picked these three is because the first one is written by a woman that is an excellent biographer in my opinion. She did her research very well and talked with a lot of people that knew Diana. The other two are people that knew Diana by working with her or for her and, to me, are unbiased.

Of course this is just my opinion on reading material. Others here may have other favorites for their own personal reasons. There is a *lot* of information out there if you look for it.
Thank you. I will check those out.
Reply With Quote
  #695  
Old 08-26-2017, 10:32 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 13,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
There are a lot of books out there on Diana and they are written by people that have researched her, have known her and have worked for her. My advice is to read quite a few of them and form your own opinion of what you feel rings true to you and what doesn't. If I had to suggest the top three of the books I've read on Diana they would be:

1. Diana in Search of Herself: Portrait of a Troubled Princess by Sally Bedell Smith.

2. The Housekeeper's Diary by Wendy Berry

3. Diana: Closely Guarded Secret by Ken Wharfe

The reason I picked these three is because the first one is written by a woman that is an excellent biographer in my opinion. She did her research very well and talked with a lot of people that knew Diana. The other two are people that knew Diana by working with her or for her and, to me, are unbiased.
That very sentence identifies their bias - they knew her personally. Their personal experience of her, for good or bad, will affect the way the write about her and thus that forms a large part of their bias view of her.
Reply With Quote
  #696  
Old 08-26-2017, 11:14 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,019
Who is 'unbiased' then? Penny Junor, who knows Camilla and Charles personally and also writes about them and Diana, whom, she avers her editor father was 'in love with'?

IMO there are many valuable biographies and memoirs written by those who knew their subject. I'm reading a memoir of the Empress Friedrich (Vicky) at the moment, written by Walberga Lady Paget, who knew her well as a young woman.

I also like Sally Bedell Smith's bios of Diana and Charles, as well as 'The Housekeeper's Diary' and Wharfe's 'Closely Guarded Secret' as well as Sarah Bradford's biography of Diana.

IMO we are not likely to get anything unbiased about Diana or Charles and Camilla or the disintegration of the Wales marriage (at least from primary sources) until long after Charles's death, and perhaps not even then.
Reply With Quote
  #697  
Old 08-26-2017, 11:31 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 13,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Who is 'unbiased' then?
No one.

Everyone has a bias - it is human nature.

Quote:
Penny Junor, who knows Camilla and Charles personally and also writes about them and Diana, whom, she avers her editor father was 'in love with.'
Penny Junor is certainly a favourite for Charles' supporters.

Quote:
IMO there are many valuable biographies and memoirs written by those who knew their subject. I'm reading a memoir of the Empress Friedrich (Vicky) at the moment, written by Walberga Lady Paget, who knew her well as a young woman.
Any well-researched biography is 'valuable' but bias is something different.

If you know someone they you are forming your opinions based on personal knowledge. If you don't know someone you are forming your opinion based on others who did but not everyone who knew someone knows them the same way. Taking your example of Lady Paget - her view of Vicky is coloured by her position, her own relationship but wouldn't be the same as say Bismarck's opinion of Vicky - both knew her but had different opinions of her. Neither is wholly right or wholly wrong but anyone who wants to learn about Vicky will read works from both of these, her letters, and the views of others who knew her or were alive at the time and even then they still will have bits missing.

Quote:
I also like Sally Bedell Smith's bios of Diana and Charles, as well as 'The Housekeeper's Diary' and Wharfe's 'Closely Guarded Secret' as well as Sarah Bradford's biography of Diana.
I too like these biographies.

Quote:
IMO we are not likely to get anything unbiased about Diana or Charles and the disintegration of his marriage (at least from primary sources) until long after Charles's death, and perhaps not even then.
I agree we won't get anything unbiased by would extend the time frame until never.

We don't get the entire diaries for instance - whoever edits them will choose what to leave in and what to leave out and that is caused by the person's own bias.
Reply With Quote
  #698  
Old 08-26-2017, 11:32 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,019
I'm just putting it out there that Mantel is not only a very talented writer but is a convinced republican. She rarely writes anything generous about the BRF or individual members of it and is fascinated seemingly by the myths and public perceptions of Royal females and the differences between the public persona and image and the private person.

Hilary has lectured and written about Marie Antoinette and Elizabeth I in the past. I remember her essay on Kate shortly after the Cambridges were married was avidly seized on by those who didn't/don't like Kate, and rushed to comment, so people's take on this article may well be skewed by their opinions of Diana I suppose, though it is certainly not overly critical of her.
Reply With Quote
  #699  
Old 08-26-2017, 11:33 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,152
Lets face it. Even the Morton book which was touted as being "In her own words" and hence the closest thing to an autobiography written by Diana is extremely biased towards Diana's opinions. The book should have been made out of rubber as there was a lot of stretching the truth in it.

I stand corrected by Iluvbertie as she is absolutely right. There is bias in anything written unless one is writing a textbook. Come to think of it, even textbooks need to be updated as new information can become available and change things up.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #700  
Old 08-27-2017, 12:44 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 13,040
Having written a textbook, and been involved in the writing of a few others I can assure you there is bias in the writing there as well e.g. I had to met the criteria set by the NSW History syllabus so had to write according to what the government want the students to learn not necessarily a balanced approach at all e.g. in the Australian High School History syllabus there is no compulsory units on Australian history other than those dealing with Australia's role in the World Wars - forget about anyone else's - and Indigenous Australians from the beginning of their history to the present day. There is no compulsory study of the Europeans in this country other than their impact on indigenous Australians but that is what the powers that be want our kids to learn (I suspect it is the same in many countries where the negative story is emphasised rather than trying to get a balance in there somewhere).
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diana: The Most Beautiful or Famous Woman of the 20th Century? Daffodil Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 335 01-29-2018 01:22 AM
20th Wedding Anniversary of King Abdullah and Queen Rania - June 10, 2013 salma King Abdullah and Queen Rania and Family 23 06-05-2013 10:51 PM
20th Anniversary of the UN Child Convention in Stockholm: November 19-20, 2009 Ccile Royal House of Sweden 64 07-25-2010 03:49 PM
New books marking the tenth anniversary of Diana's death Hendrik-Jan77 Royal Library 82 10-03-2007 11:12 AM




Popular Tags
#royalrelatives #royalgenes american anastasia 2020 baby names biography bridal gown britain britannia british royal family buckingham palace canada china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing cpr dna duchess of sussex duke of cambridge duke of sussex earl of snowdon edward vii elizabeth ii emperor family life fantasy movie fashion and style george vi hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume hochberg hypothetical monarchs interesting introduction jewellery jewelry king willem-alexander list of rulers mary: crown princess of denmark mountbatten names nepal nepalese royal family plantinum jubilee pless prince charles of luxembourg prince harry princess ariane princess chulabhorn princess dita princess eugenie princess laurentien princess of orange queen louise resusci anne royal balls royal court royal events royal family royal jewels royal spouse royalty royalty of taiwan royal wedding russian court dress spain stuart thailand thai royal family united states united states of america wales wedding gown


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:19 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×