20th Anniversary of the Death of Diana, Princess of Wales: August 31, 2017

[Curryong]

Yes, I agree. That could very much be the case. And it could well have been twenty years of such conflicting emotions.

[Lee-Z]

"Loath" is a very strong word to speculate about...imo...

[JR76]

Originally Posted by BMC

IMO it is entirely possible that the princes experienced and still experience conflicting emotions about the break up of their parents' marriage and later on their mother's death thus the contradictory comments.

Charles is their father and they love him. At the same time they may loathe him for causing their mother so much pain. Families are complicated that way.

If we're going down that route its also possible that although they love their mother they loathe her for how she behaved during the War of the Waleses. She might've been an English rose but she was no shrinking violet.

[Dman]

Originally Posted by JR76

If we're going down that route its also possible that although they love their mother they loathe her for how she behaved during the War of the Waleses. She might've been an English rose but she was no shrinking violet.

No, they didn't loathe their mother for her behavior during the break up. Listen and read all the interviews William and Harry has done this year.

[duchessrachel]

Originally Posted by soapstar

I don't think this is the last of it. "The Crown" (which is Netflix's #1 show) plans to do two seasons on Charles and Diana. The creator and writer says Diana will be introduced at the end of season 3 and will be the focus of season 4&5. So if anything, a whole new generation will be introduced to Diana.

I love The Crown. I will be very interested to see how they handle the Charles and Diana story. I have heard that the Queen and Prince Philip watch it--not sure if that is true.

[duchessrachel]

Originally Posted by VictoriaB

Plus aren't there plans to do a series of Feud about Charles and Diana. Unfortunately, the coals are just going to get raked over again and again.

I would also place a bet that these programmes are going to be somewhat myopic (hasn't the producer of Feud already admitted to being a fan of Diana). I doubt there will be much balance and its all going to be how evil Charles and Camilla hurt poor, little, innocent Diana while haughty Anne, cruel Philip and the cold hearted Queen stood by and ignored her cries for help. This is entertainment after all, not a pretense at history. Every story needs a villain and a hero/ine. This story was cast 20 years ago.

I think there are plans to do that. That series concentrated on Bette Davis and Joan Crawford last season, but I can't remember the name of it.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Dman

No, they didn't loathe their mother for her behavior during the break up. Listen and read all the interviews William and Harry has done this year.

Of course they didn't loathe her. Neither do they loathe their father. It's called sarcasm...

[BMC]

Originally Posted by Lee-Z

"Loath" is a very strong word to speculate about...imo...

"Hate" isn't much better.

[BMC]

Originally Posted by JR76

If we're going down that route its also possible that although they love their mother they loathe her for how she behaved during the War of the Waleses. She might've been an English rose but she was no shrinking violet.

Perhaps they do but we were discussing their relationship with their father.

Like I said families are complicated.

[ladongas]

Yes, families are complicated! And inasmuch as none of us on this board are members of the BRF, it's possibly, even likely, that our versions of the 'facts' are wildly inaccurate.

[Lee-Z]

I just hope there isn't any hate or loathing or anything of the sort between any the people involved (alive or dead) :(

not a fact, not even my opinion, just my sincere wish

[cepe]

No member of the public has seen the BBC programme yet. All this commentary is based on what the press have seen in preview, so its their interpretation.
It doesnt txm until Sunday.

Sometimes this gets lost. Take the Newsweek article. Harry did not explicitly say he and his brother were forced to walk. It was implied in the article and made 'fact' by UK media (dont know about elsewhere).

What the last few weeks has reinforced for me is that you can never take royal news at face value.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by duchessrachel

I love The Crown. I will be very interested to see how they handle the Charles and Diana story. I have heard that the Queen and Prince Philip watch it--not sure if that is true.

For such a costly production there were far too many factual errors, there was too much hineininterpretieren* and there was even pure fantasy woven into the story (for an example Sir Winston Churchill and his secretary, Venetia Scott, but she was 100% a fabrication to spice things up).

One needs to be a fly on the wall too see if A - the Queen and the Duke have a suscription to Netflix (if these Ninety-somethingers have any desire to have Netflix anyway) and B - if they indeed were watching The Crown and not Orange Is The New Black. With other words: pure guesses.

(* Hineininterpretieren is a wonderful German word which is difficult to translate: maybe it translates best as: re-interpretating things with knowledge no one could have known back then. The Crown was a very lenghty exercise in that).

Having heard various comments by the two princes, I feel they are re-interpretating things as well, not as the boys they were but with knowledge they did not know 20 years ago and with the eyes of much older persons looking back on what happened during that rollercoaster time of emotions. They seem to differ in bringing up details every time they open their mouth about it.

[loonytick]

I didn't read any of the earlier interviews as saying they weren't offered any support. They didn't clearly say "Dad tried to help us," but they also didn't say he ignored it, either. What they did say was that they weren't willing to open themselves up emotionally to deal with the complicated feelings.

Just because a person doesn't grab the metaphorical rope that could pull him out of a morass doesn't mean there was no rope offered. They could have sat in session after session with counselors refusing to participate. If so, they wouldn't be the first children to do so. I think it is telling that their efforts around mental health aren't focused on "what can be offered" as much as they are about reassuring people that it's ok to accept what assistance is available and to reiterate that talking can be helpful even when you think it won't be.

The only clear criticism either made of the choices their father or grandparents made was when Harry said that a child shouldn't be made to walk behind his mother's coffin in such a big, public way. But I wouldn't be surprised if, in hindsight, the family as a whole has decided that isn't a choice they'd make again.

It's a hard line to walk, to take a moment to insert their perspective into the narrative about their family's life, trying to restrict their comments so that they are only about themselves and the one family member who can't be hurt one way or another anymore. I do think they've made some missteps, but for the most part I don't think they have much to regret.

I can sort of see why some of you think they should just stay silent...but that's not foolproof, either, and there's a little bit of laziness to that approach. I also don't think it's a realistic option in this day and age.

[Jacknch]

A reminder that discussion of the Netflix production The Crown can be found in the http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post2012028 thread.

[TLLK]

Just because a person doesn't grab the metaphorical rope that could pull him out of a morass doesn't mean there was no rope offered. They could have sat in session after session with counselors refusing to participate. If so, they wouldn't be the first children to do so. I think it is telling that their efforts around mental health aren't focused on "what can be offered" as much as they are about reassuring people that it's ok to accept what assistance is available and to reiterate that talking can be helpful even when you think it won't be.

Good post loonytick!

It is very likely that neither was ready to open up and accept the help that would have been offered to them in the weeks/months after her death. Harry has shared recently that it was only in the last couple of years that he was prepared to deal with Diana's loss and this was only because his brother was concerned about his behavior.

[MARG]

Originally Posted by wyevale

Well. YES.. but nothing surprises "Never apologise and [especially] NEVER EXPLAIN" would certainly have been my advice to those most closely involved in this tragedy...

Anything and everything 'made public' has been and will be distorted and re-interpreted to suit different narratives, so silence will always be the wisest option...

You can't blame them for trying. Twenty years of dirty laundry and the continual public vilification of their father is a terrible burden to be carried forever for them, their father and Camilla.

Unfortunately, now the media will just twist everything remotely nice they said and heap even more on Charles and Camilla because saying nice things about their father is obviously a sign of brainwashing, coercion, or some other unsavoury skulduggery.

Well, it was worth a crack boys.

[shastalucie]

I've heard that William was displeased with his mother during the summer of 1997. He wasn't impressed with Dodi and he did not appreciate his mother's rather deliberate public displays in a bathing suit, kissing and hugging Dodi in full view of the paparazzi, etc. William had not held back in making his views clear to his mother in several heated phone calls in the weeks before her death. Of course, his reaction was completely normal for a guy his age and most kids would have felt the same way. Still, I think these exchanges with his mother (if true) would make his memory and feeling of the events around her death as especially painful.

[royal rob]

Originally Posted by shastalucie

I've heard that William was displeased with his mother during the summer of 1997. He wasn't impressed with Dodi and he did not appreciate his mother's rather deliberate public displays in a bathing suit, kissing and hugging Dodi in full view of the paparazzi, etc. William had not held back in making his views clear to his mother in several heated phone calls in the weeks before her death. Of course, his reaction was completely normal for a guy his age and most kids would have felt the same way. Still, I think these exchanges with his mother (if true) would make his memory and feeling of the events around her death as especially painful.

Where have you got this information? Who did you hear it from ? Etc etc

[hel]

Originally Posted by loonytick

I didn't read any of the earlier interviews as saying they weren't offered any support. They didn't clearly say "Dad tried to help us," but they also didn't say he ignored it, either. What they did say was that they weren't willing to open themselves up emotionally to deal with the complicated feelings.

Just because a person doesn't grab the metaphorical rope that could pull him out of a morass doesn't mean there was no rope offered. They could have sat in session after session with counselors refusing to participate. If so, they wouldn't be the first children to do so. I think it is telling that their efforts around mental health aren't focused on "what can be offered" as much as they are about reassuring people that it's ok to accept what assistance is available and to reiterate that talking can be helpful even when you think it won't be.

The only clear criticism either made of the choices their father or grandparents made was when Harry said that a child shouldn't be made to walk behind his mother's coffin in such a big, public way. But I wouldn't be surprised if, in hindsight, the family as a whole has decided that isn't a choice they'd make again.

It's a hard line to walk, to take a moment to insert their perspective into the narrative about their family's life, trying to restrict their comments so that they are only about themselves and the one family member who can't be hurt one way or another anymore. I do think they've made some missteps, but for the most part I don't think they have much to regret.

I can sort of see why some of you think they should just stay silent...but that's not foolproof, either, and there's a little bit of laziness to that approach. I also don't think it's a realistic option in this day and age.

To be honest, I don't exactly read that as a criticism of his family; I think the larger context of all the interviews, there's an understanding that the boys' walk was in response to public expectations that they show their mourning. It's entirely possible that those expectations, as much or more than their family, is what Harry is referring to when he says that a child wouldn't be expected to do that today.