The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #441  
Old 07-27-2017, 02:25 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
Quote:
No one should be coming down hard on Earl Spencer on being misled by palace officials on the matter.
Pre-supposing one believes him.. but I do NOT.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #442  
Old 07-27-2017, 02:35 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 8,164
I don't know exactly.. I Don't think thtat the boys were forced into it.. perhaps persuaded...I don't believe that Philip would allow them to be seriously pushed and I woud believe that he said to Will that he'd regret it if he didn't do the walk. I think that Charles S was very much agianst the idea, so perhaps he was told that the boys were OK with it, when in fact they were nervous. But I think that Phil would not have wanted Will and Harry to do it if they were really scared or unhappy and if they had really been unable to face it they would have been lef out.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #443  
Old 07-27-2017, 03:01 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 15,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
How do you know? Look at all the disagreements this Programme has sprarked off here. If there were really problems and tensions about the funeral among the 2 families at the time.. and I'm sure there were, as funerals can bring painful emotions to the fore...I would say that this programme is bound to raise painful memories among W and H's relatives...
There nothing there to make the families upset, Denville. The program 'Diana, Our Mother: Her Life and Legacy' was made by her family and friends to reflect on their precious memories of her and her lasting legacy. Nothing about it was an attack on anyone. Its people on the net that has decided to turn such a touching documentary into something bad and PR nightmare for the royal family.

I think people have to stop making it seem like everything and anything to do with Diana is an attack on the royal family. Diana has never been a threat to the royal family when she was alive and she's not a threat to the royal family in death.

Diana was a wife, mother, sister, friend and royal humanitarian. Her loved ones and the world lost a beautiful person nearly 20 years ago. We should be using the anniversary of her passing to reflect on the precious memories of her life and the many charitable causes she cared so deeply about. Not allowing the media to turn this anniversary into a PR problem. It's totally far from it.
__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
  #444  
Old 07-27-2017, 03:03 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 8,164
of couse Diana was a threat to the RF...
Reply With Quote
  #445  
Old 07-27-2017, 03:14 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
To me the idea of the Princes 'walking behind the Coffin' has ALL the hallmarks of Tony Blair's 'Sofa Government'.. {Democratic, down with the kids, approachable, 'Peoples Princess' populist baloney}
It didn't come from HMQ, nor the POW.. or the Spencer's .The DoE ' went along with it' but it doesn't strike me as his sort of idea. Not 'the Household' nor the Private Secretary either..[who KNOW their Sovereign and what she wants].

Along with another of 'Tony's' ideas, it proved to be a BAD one.
Reply With Quote
  #446  
Old 07-27-2017, 03:18 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 15,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
of couse Diana was a threat to the RF...
No, she wasn't. The media built it up as if She was a threat, but she wasn't. She and her husband went through a bad separation and divorce. The media used their personal issues as a soap opera and made it seem like the House of Windsor was going to fall. None of that was true. It's going to take a great deal to make that happen.

We have to stop making it seem like the subject of Diana and anything to do with her family talking about her is something that neeeds to be shut down and never spoken of again.
__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
  #447  
Old 07-27-2017, 03:44 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,305
Exactly. They had spent the week protecting those children from the media in Balmoral. To force them to be on public display doesn't seem to be something that would have been pushed by their grandparents. Someone has posted that it has the hallmarks of a Tony Blair-ish media event. That makes sense to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
But I think that Phil would not have wanted Will and Harry to do it if they were really scared or unhappy and if they had really been unable to face it they would have been lef out.
Reply With Quote
  #448  
Old 07-27-2017, 03:51 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 15,834
You guys do know the Lord Chamberlain of the Royal Household and his office is what arranges the royal funerals. The Earl of Airlie at the time. Tony Blair had nothing to do with it.
__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
  #449  
Old 07-27-2017, 03:58 PM
sesa's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: orange, United States
Posts: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Anna View Post
What's not healthy about being told they have another Granny who loves them but lives in the sky (or where ever)?

I think "obsessively living in the past" because he talks to his children about Granny Diana is a bit of an exaggeration?
I totally agree. when you stop remembering the person htat has passed away, and stop talking about them is when they truly die.
It's always healthy for the person to talk about them and share their memories, that way the children grow up "knowing" this person (in a certain way) and know it's ok to ask questions.
Personal example: Both my brothers have passed away. my middle brother was 29 when he passed away. I had my daughter in 1999 and my brother passed in 1993. we, my parents and I, have talked so much about him, that she "knows" him. She also knows that she can ask questions about him without us getting upset or cry or depressed. It helps sharing the memories and it helps in the healing process. my 2nd brother passed in 2013. By talking about my 1st brother, and being exposed to "memories" my daughter was able to go thru the grieving process a little easier than not having been exposed.
So personally: "obsessively living in the past" is a bit harsh. We each grieve differently and in different times. Their are no rules for this and we should not judge each other.
The way I see W & H's documentary, is 2 MEN sharing their memories with the world on a mother who was lost to them when they were BOYS. All the other crap coming out because of her anniversary is just that: crap, and totally irrelevant. Just the same old drivel from the same old mouths, hoping to make a quick buck or get another 15 min in the spot light. To me, that's the sad part.
Reply With Quote
  #450  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:01 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
Quote:
the Lord Chamberlain of the Royal Household and his office is what arranges the royal funerals
ANY Brit will tell you that Messrs Blair and Campbell paid NO attention to such niceties during their period of office.. NO Civil Servant or Courtier was beyond the reach of their power. Especially in that panic-stricken post accident period...
Reply With Quote
  #451  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:08 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,305
The Queen is a servant of the Government. If Tony Blair wanted the Queen to have her grandsons march behind their mother's casket, she'd be obligated to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
You guys do know the Lord Chamberlain of the Royal Household and his office is what arranges the royal funerals. The Earl of Airlie at the time. Tony Blair had nothing to do with it.
Reply With Quote
  #452  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:10 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
To me the idea of the Princes 'walking behind the Coffin' has ALL the hallmarks of Tony Blair's 'Sofa Government'.. {Democratic, down with the kids, approachable, 'Peoples Princess' populist baloney}
Are you sure ? I thought "walking behind the coffin" was actually a standard tradition for members of the Royal Family.
Reply With Quote
  #453  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:24 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
Quote:
a standard tradition
Not for children and 'young teenagers', and emphatically NOT through a crowd seething with resentment and [not a little] anger.

These were not the conditions at George VIs' Funeral..
Reply With Quote
  #454  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:26 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,152
This whole situation of "walking behind the casket" has been overblown and the blame game of who's idea it was and whatnot has gotten to be nit picking.

When a tragedy like this hits two young boys and affects them in a life changing matter, the last thing to be expected is that the boys would be able to take in and digest things like an adult and in a rational manner. It is also preposterous to believe that in this situation, should the government of the day have "insisted" on two young boys doing what the government wants that the Queen would meekly order them to do so. These are human being and not puppets on strings.

As an adult and facing the death of a loved one, there were many issues that were up in the air what to do, how to handle this or how to arrange this that I had to deal with and needed counsel and advice from others. Not walking behind Diana's casket for her boys was most likely at first met with a resounding "no" because in their state of shock, all they probably wanted to do was hide under a blanket and hopefully wake up and find that this was all a dream.

To be honest, I don't remember if I've read it or where I get this idea from but I think that it was Philip that was instrumental in counseling the boys on what would be the best way to handle this. I don't think that Philip ever intended to walk that walk himself until he realized that in doing so, it would give his grandsons the courage to walk with him. This was the prime example, for me, of the importance the family played in supporting Will and Harry at this time by remaining at Balmoral.

While the press, the government, the courtiers and the masses of people were focusing on the death of Diana and how to handle her funeral, the family was focusing on the two boys that had a life changing tragedy hit their young lives with the sudden death a mother that was their have all and be all in their young lives.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #455  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:47 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 12,310
If Phillip did suggest or even encourage the boys to do it I am quite sure there's no way he would of done it if he thought it would hurt them. If someone wants to say Phillip (being not known for his sensitivity) urged them to do it then okay, but he wouldn't of done it knowing it would cause hurt.

My guess is the idea was floated by the grey suits or Blair etc due to the massive outcry at the perceived lack of reaction of the BRF to her death.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #456  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:48 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
I'm afraid I disagree Osipi..
In the febrile atmosphere of that strange period it is all too conceivable to me that Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell [ever confident that THEIR'S were the 'fingers on the pulse' of Public opinion] might have suggested to a Monarch [already pressured and disoriented by her sudden unpopularity] that 'the boys' walking behind the coffin would calm the anger and focus attention upon them [whom EVERYONE had sympathy for] rather than the wider Family,whom many resented for their [perceived] maltreatment of the deceased.
Reply With Quote
  #457  
Old 07-27-2017, 05:25 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,019
Harry never mentioned anything about being forced or persuaded to walk during the programme which really was a wonderful tribute to his and William's mother. I think it was a great idea, and I enjoyed seeing it. I'm glad it was made. Harry's remark happened before this tribute aired.

As for Earl Spencer, he specifically stated that it was 'a courtier' who told him that 'It was all arranged' that the boys would walk. If it had been Tony Blair's office, or any Blair aide or any politician at all then the Earl would surely have said so or hinted at it. He would have heard that it was Blair's doing at some time during the past 20 years one would think!

Instead he has said unequivocally that it was a courtier at BP who told him, during discussions about the funeral with those at BP, (and he would hardly have been speaking to underlings.) We don't know who persuaded them to walk, but it seems from what we have that the impetus did not come from Downing St but from BP/adults in the Royal Family.

All this criticism, implied and otherwise, because two men decided to honour their mother and pay tribute to her charity work (which was considerable) and the joy of having Diana as a mother, something they obviously feel deeply about! IMO they had a perfect right to do this on such an important anniversary of her death.
Reply With Quote
  #458  
Old 07-27-2017, 05:29 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,152
I'm not in disagreement with you at all wyevale. I do believe it was Charles, himself, that was in communication with Blair and his people from the get go on how things should be handled. Blair, himself, was at the airport when Diana's body was returned to the UK by Charles and Diana's two sisters.

Charles, it is believed, was in opposition to his mother's opinion that Diana's funeral should be a private affair with the Spencer family calling the shots. Charles pushed for a more public funeral. With Charles and Blair in cahoots over how things should be handled and all the back and forth of communication between 10 Downing Street and Balmoral, with the decision to have a very public almost state type of funeral for Diana, I'm sure the "walking behind the casket" issue came up. IIRC, it was decided that instead of the military band regiments that follow the casket during a state funeral (such as the Queen Mother's), the casket would be followed by representatives of Diana's charities and patronages during her lifetime.

This is most likely where the subject of the boys walking behind the casket came up. I think both Charles and Blair were in agreement that this would be an advisable thing to do. It was suggested to the boys and eventually it was Philip that said "if I walk, will you walk with me?" which may have clinched the deal and the boys walked.

There was a whole lot of communication going on during the time Diana's death was first announced and the actual funeral between Balmoral, 10 Downing Street and the offices of Buckingham Palace and the Queen's advisors. Although the public tends to believe that during this time the royal family was "isolated" and "separated" from what was going on in London, there was a lot of behind the scenes machinations going on that resulted in the funeral that was held for Diana.

So, I cannot say that Blair was totally responsible for how things went nor was Charles nor was the Queen and her advisors or the Spencers. It was, as ended up, joint decisions made by all of them.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #459  
Old 07-27-2017, 06:11 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Waterford, United States
Posts: 2,811
No link, but...

...I have a vague memory of having read that the boys walked in order to make sure that Charles was not booed. This is something that I remember from 20 years ago; I don't remember the source; I have no opinion on the truth of it; but I do remember reading it.
__________________
"If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it, you surely will.

Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
  #460  
Old 07-27-2017, 06:21 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,152
I remember reading something along these lines too. It was a credible thing that should Charles have just walked behind the casket by himself (with Charles Spencer), it may have looked like he was a sitting duck for not only boos and hisses and signs of disapproval but perhaps also an assassination attempt. As he was Diana's ex-husband, it may have been seen as Charles being hypocritical to walk behind the casket of a woman that he was divorced from.

Walking with his sons and his father gave the impression that it was "familY" walking behind Diana's casket.
__________________

__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diana: The Most Beautiful or Famous Woman of the 20th Century? Daffodil Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 335 01-29-2018 01:22 AM
20th Wedding Anniversary of King Abdullah and Queen Rania - June 10, 2013 salma King Abdullah and Queen Rania and Family 23 06-05-2013 10:51 PM
20th Anniversary of the UN Child Convention in Stockholm: November 19-20, 2009 Ccile Royal House of Sweden 64 07-25-2010 03:49 PM
New books marking the tenth anniversary of Diana's death Hendrik-Jan77 Royal Library 82 10-03-2007 11:12 AM




Popular Tags
abu dhabi american history anastasia anastasia once upon a time ancestry archie mountbatten-windsor background story baptism british british royal family british royals brownbitcoinqueen carolin china chinese commonwealth countries countess of snowdon customs doll dresses duke of sussex family tree general news thread george vi gradenigo gustaf vi adolf history house of windsor imperial household intro italian royal family jack brooksbank jacobite japan jewellery kids movie king edward vii line of succession list of rulers luxembourg maxima meghan markle monarchy nepalese royal jewels prince constantijn prince dimitri princess alexia (2005 -) princess chulabhorn walailak princess ribha queen consort queen elizabeth ii queen maxima queen victoria random facts royal dress-ups royal jewels royal marriage royal re-enactments. royal wedding serbian royal family spain sussex swedish queen taiwan tradition unfinished portrait united states of america wedding gown welsh wittelsbach


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:45 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×