20th Anniversary of the Death of Diana, Princess of Wales: August 31, 2017


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I actually do believe that William and Harry are both very close with their father. They understand him. They want him to be happy. The amount the children and grandchildren spend with a parent isn't a measure of the love they have for each other. Charles, by nature, is a workaholic with a very well packed appointment book. It will stay that way probably until he dies. He's not a retired grandpa with time on his hands and most likely when Charles does have "down" time to spend with his family, its not something the public is informed on.

Like most children of a divorce, they've separated their parents in their own minds. Time with Diana wasn't taken up with things about Charles and vice versa. For this anniversary, they are focusing on their mother. The omission of Charles is something that is to be expected. Its not a slight toward Charles at all but with talking about their mother, discussing their father is irrelevant.
 
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As usual Osipi, you 'hit the nail on the head' and your [evident] wisdom is enviable.
 
I think it's unfortunate that even after all these years William and Harry are left to deal with the mess their parents created with the horrible way they handled the separation and divorce.

The Wales's divorce was obviously acrimonious but it didn't need to be publicly so. By engaging in the mother of all public relations battles Charles and Diana set things up so that, decades later, their sons can't say even the most innocuous thing about one parent without it being taken by some as a subtle slur on the other.

I don't think William and Harry have any interest in continuing the games their parents played way back when. For them, there is no competition. They love their mother and want to honour her memory. They love their father and I'm sure when HE dies they'll find ways to honour his memory, too.
 
Please note that several posts relating to the name of the British Royal House have been moved to the Windsor/Mountbatten-Windsor: Name of Royal House and Surname - The Royal Forums thread. Other posts have been edited accordingly.

Since this thread is not about the relationship between members of the Royal Family, posts concerning William and Harry's relationship with the Prince of Wales should be made in the http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...embers-of-the-british-royal-family-15549.html thread.
 
It is indeed interesting and insightful, Dman. Thanks for posting it. It was good that various pointers from the Earl's controversial eulogy at the Abbey was discussed. He was, he said, speaking for a sister who no longer had a voice.

Also surprising in this podcast was the debate Charles Spencer said he had with the grey men at BP, in which, during which he stated that he was very much against the boys following the coffin and that his sister would never have wanted that. He was told that it had 'been decided', he again reiterated that they shouldn't, and then basically was lied to and told that they wanted to. As he says in that podcast that wasn't the truth. So whose decision was it to tell them to do it and on whose behalf was the Earl lied to? Truth will out. Eventually.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40717424
 
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So the loathsome Brother [who treated his sister badly during the last period of her life, when she REALLY had need of him], and who deserted the young Princes [his 'blood family'] to bugger off to the Sun in South Africa, has taken this opportunity to 'massage' his image, and denigrate BP..
NOTHING surprises from such a wretch...
 
I can't stand Charles Spencer but I don't see how he treated her badly just because he wasn't thrilled with her coming back to her old home. I might not be remembering this correctly but didn't he not want her there because of the press drama? Also I don't think not living in England constitutes him deserting William and Harry we don't know what kind of relationship he has with any of his nieces or nephews .
 
:previous: My understanding is that the Earl decided that the house that Diana was first offered was too accessible publicly, and so he offered another one to her. She didn't accept the second offer.
 
I'm taking what the Earl has said about being "lied" to re William and Harry walking behind their mother's coffin with far more than a pinch of salt.

He was with them prior to the walk, he walked beside them and says that he's only just found out that they didn't want to do it.

So much for Diana's "blood family" looking after William and Harry!
 
This whole anniversary together with the naive and stupid interview that Harry did a while ago is damaging to the monarchy, and I cant wait for it to be over.

And this is not a criticism of the ''Diana, Our Mother'' documentary.
 
So much for Diana's "blood family" looking after William and Harry!
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Amen to that.. he is so often caught out as a liar and a hypocrite, the late Princess would surely be ashamed of her brother...
 
ROYAL NORWAY said:
This whole anniversary together with the naive and stupid interview that Harry did a while ago is damaging to the monarchy, and I cant wait for it to be over.

And this is not a criticism of the ''Diana, Our Mother'' documentary.
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I don't think it is at all damaging to the monarchy. The BRF even is doing their bit to remember Diana on the 20th anniversary by having an exhibit of Diana's personal things on display at Buckingham Palace now that the Queen is in Scotland and the palace has been opened to the public. They remember the time that Diana did spend as a member of the BRF and the positives that she brought to the monarchy and publicly enhanced it.

The personal reflections of those close to Diana and the royal family's part in remembering Diana has nothing to do with the monarchy itself as an institution. The monarchy has survived so much over the past that remembering one person that was a member of the family, if only for a while, isn't going to affect it at all.

In remembering a person after they have died and passed on, like all of us, we remember the good times and the good things and let the negatives be forgotten.

At least, that's how I see it. :D
 
:previous:

That's a kind sentiment Osipi but I agree with Royal Norway.

There are more and more negative articles being written in the UK.

And now other comments (ie Spencer) books (too many to name)and programmes (Channel 4 trash) which are not balanced are being published/transmitted. This is not good for the monarchy.
 
That's an angle I hadn't considered. The negatives that are inundating from all angles. Perhaps I'm not seeing the threat that all that could damage the monarchy itself because I've kind of closed myself off from the negative articles that have been printed and basically the whole rehashing of the "bad" side of things from Diana herself, the BRF, what coulda and shoulda happened 20 years ago and basically dredging up every negative thing in the world having to do with the death of one woman.

It seems that no matter what, Diana will not be allowed to rest in peace as long as the media and anyone with a story or an opinion is able to cash in on it and make a few green dollars exploiting a tragedy. It seems that Diana is more than ever a larger than life itself cash cow in death as she was in life.

Maybe looking at it this way, it might have been kinder to her memory to just let the anniversary pass in silent reflection rather than creating a media circus.

Thanks for the insight. I needed it.
 
cepe said:
I'm taking what the Earl has said about being "lied" to re William and Harry walking behind their mother's coffin with far more than a pinch of salt.

He was with them prior to the walk, he walked beside them and says that he's only just found out that they didn't want to do it.

So much for Diana's "blood family" looking after William and Harry!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what I believe about whether Earl Spencer actually asked anyone at the palace regarding William and Harry walking in the funeral procession. But I really can't see at the time of the funeral either of those boys saying anything, especially not to their uncle. And it is not like they were chatting away during the walk.

Personally, I think the boys were led to believe they would be letting down their mother if they didn't walk and felt obligated--and I think it was people from the Prime Minister's office that were heavily involved.
 
cepe said:
I'm taking what the Earl has said about being "lied" to re William and Harry walking behind their mother's coffin with far more than a pinch of salt.

He was with them prior to the walk, he walked beside them and says that he's only just found out that they didn't want to do it.

So much for Diana's "blood family" looking after William and Harry!
Click to expand...

I agree. It seems that Lord Spencer is being opportunistic and mentioned it just because Harry made it an issue in his interview (when, quite frankly, it should not be).
 
Osipi said:
That's an angle I hadn't considered. The negatives that are inundating from all angles. Perhaps I'm not seeing the threat that all that could damage the monarchy itself because I've kind of closed myself off from the negative articles that have been printed and basically the whole rehashing of the "bad" side of things from Diana herself, the BRF, what coulda and shoulda happened 20 years ago and basically dredging up every negative thing in the world having to do with the death of one woman.

It seems that no matter what, Diana will not be allowed to rest in peace as long as the media and anyone with a story or an opinion is able to cash in on it and make a few green dollars exploiting a tragedy. It seems that Diana is more than ever a larger than life itself cash cow in death as she was in life.

Maybe looking at it this way, it might have been kinder to her memory to just let the anniversary pass in silent reflection rather than creating a media circus.

Thanks for the insight. I needed it.
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Recently I read somewhere that both boys had said no they wouldn't...but once they got there William had changed his mind and Harry decided if William did it he would too.

But unless it comes from W&H directly who knows if it's accurate.

All we know is Harry has now indicated he shouldn't of done it...shouldn't of been allowed or asked to do it.


LaRae
 
Osipi said:
That's an angle I hadn't considered. The negatives that are inundating from all angles. Perhaps I'm not seeing the threat that all that could damage the monarchy itself because I've kind of closed myself off from the negative articles that have been printed and basically the whole rehashing of the "bad" side of things from Diana herself, the BRF, what coulda and shoulda happened 20 years ago and basically dredging up every negative thing in the world having to do with the death of one woman.

It seems that no matter what, Diana will not be allowed to rest in peace as long as the media and anyone with a story or an opinion is able to cash in on it and make a few green dollars exploiting a tragedy. It seems that Diana is more than ever a larger than life itself cash cow in death as she was in life.

Maybe looking at it this way, it might have been kinder to her memory to just let the anniversary pass in silent reflection rather than creating a media circus.

Thanks for the insight. I needed it.
Click to expand...

It is a difficult situation. I watched and enjoyed the Diana programme. I thought the Princes found a good balance without being mawkish and letting all the secret thoughts out. William more circumspect than Harry.

But Channel 4 are using that programme as justification for transmitting private tapes of Diana and her voice coach. And some people think thats ok, but it is tabloid trash on TV.

PRess/radio now talking to Earl Spencer (first time in 20 years).

The floodgates were always going to open and the Princes are being seen as the key to allow it. This is wrong IMO but thats waht is happening here
 
I find it mind blowing on how people are turning Diana's family reflecting memories of her during this 20th anniversary year into something bad.

Also, people have to stop thinking everything is bad for the monarchy. Nothing is harming the monarchy. No one has said anything that would even cause any bad PR for the monarchy. The monarchy is a very old institution that has weather a great deal over the centuries. Nothing about Diana or her family sharing their memories of her is a threat to the monarchy.

Also, people have to learn to let go of this bad animosity they have for Earl Spencer. The Spencer family had their personal family issues and probably still do, but Diana's death was a huge blow to them as well. They way they expressed their grief and sorrow was their prerogative.

Prince Harry, The Duke of Cambridge and Earl Spencer have expressed their feelings about walking behind Diana's coffin while the whole world watch. Of course it must've been very hard and scary for them to have done that. I personally found it heartbreaking and brave, but their feelings on the matter is what's more important.

The channel 4 program on those tapes already aired here in the US a couple of years ago. I found it very silly of the person in possession of those tapes to release them to the public, but nothing's in the tapes that we haven't heard before. Although, the media and folks on the net will once again use it to slam Diana and her memory. It's like people enjoy beating the hell out of her spirit and legacy.
 
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Dman, You are tweeting as an American, talking about how this all looks in America.

I'm not - I read 90% of British press, listen to British radio and watch British news.

Its not all good news for the monarchy. I'm not talking about it disappearing tomorrow or even in the next 5 years. I'm talking about it being undermined.
 
I hate to say 'I told you so'.. but I have to agree with Cepe and Royal Norway here..

The 'opening' issued by William and [especially] by Harry, by raking up the past, IS being used to attack the Monarchy by all sorts of opportunists.. the Press of course, Republicans NATURALLY, but also those [like Lord Spencer] who seek to rehabilitate a tarnished reputation [and make money]. Very shortly doubtless Paul Burrell will crawl out of the woodwork...
When this 'milestone' is over, I shall be very pleased and a decent veil of silence [as befits the dead of 20 years + ] can be drawn once again !

May 'she rest in peace' and her sons keep dignified SILENCE...
 
The only program I've watched on Diana recently was the recent one the Princes did on YouTube and that was even messed up as far as the closed captioning went. I did enjoy what I saw and have the opinion that it was tastefully done by both William and Harry and something they'd want to show their children. These two men are the ones that matter the most when it comes to remembering Diana as they were the ones closest to her.

We live in an opportunist world. One thing catches the interest of the masses and everyone and their grandmother's pet parakeet jump on the bandwagon to profit from the interests of the masses. Its why we have "fads" and why we have celebrities such as the Kardashians and publications like the Fail that prey on scandals, gossip, wardrobe malfunctions and illicit secrets and doings of others.

For me, I could care less what Charles Spencer has to say 20 years after the fact of something happening during a family funeral. People tend to not be themselves when tragedy strikes and often act contrary to their normal selves. I could care less about rehashing the "scandals" surrounding Diana's lifetime and a revision of the War of the Wales in the media. It may have been pertinent to the people involved at the time but life goes on and people move on and 20 years after the final curtain on Diana's life, those issues should have been laid to rest with her. I am, however, interested in the historical Diana and her life and her accomplishments and her very human facets which is why I participate in discussions here.

The monarchy survived the Diana years intact and perhaps was even enhanced in some ways by the whole Diana experience. The monarchy will survive through the onslaught of a 20th anniversary of Diana's death as soon as it is over, the opportunists will be in search of something else to focus on as the anniversary becomes old news.
 
You can set your watch by Earl Spencer. Every time a milestone comes around regarding Diana he'll be sure to have his say, starting at the funeral right up until twenty years later. I'm sure ten years from now he'll be telling us how he TOLD Diana not to go to Paris and if she had just listened to him imagine how different things would be...

He's not a stupid man; he knows very well his eulogy plays less and less well the more time passes. However he tries to spin it it was a well thought out stab at the royal family. It's self indulgent and cowardly to strike at people you know can't hit back. He wasn't speaking for Diana at all, and he certainly wasn't thinking about her children or what would be best for them long term.

Regarding the boys walking in the funeral procession: have either of them actually said they told anyone they didn't want to do it? Because my understanding is the same as above - the idea came from the government and initially both boys said no/maybe and then William changed his mind and Harry followed suit. The royal family's instinct was to keep the boys away from the public eye at Balmoral and plan for as private a funeral as possible. They were not the ones pushing for the all out extravaganza the funeral turned out to be. In hindsight the boys walking in the procession should never have been presented to them as an option but once the royals gave in to government and public pressure they lost the upper hand and psychologically were most likely on shakier ground with any decision they made afterward.

Harry seemed very sure of himself in that interview awhile ago. He spoke like a young man with no children who's only ever been responsible for himself, and has certainly never had to shepherd a family through an unprecedented public tragedy. I hope he chooses to be more circumspect in the future.
 
wyevale said:
So the loathsome Brother [who treated his sister badly during the last period of her life, when she REALLY had need of him], and who deserted the young Princes [his 'blood family'] to bugger off to the Sun in South Africa, has taken this opportunity to 'massage' his image, and denigrate BP..
NOTHING surprises from such a wretch...
Click to expand...

Earl Spencer and his family moved to South Africa in 1996, so he had already moved there BEFORE Diana died.
 
? Ah yes.. the exigencies of TAX exile...
 
cepe said:
Dman, You are tweeting as an American, talking about how this all looks in America.

I'm not - I read 90% of British press, listen to British radio and watch British news.

Its not all good news for the monarchy. I'm not talking about it disappearing tomorrow or even in the next 5 years. I'm talking about it being undermined.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter that I'm an American, crepe. Nothing has been said nor done to undermine the monarchy. The press is trying to stir up something of course, but what we've seen so far is very personal and touching memories and tributes to Diana from her loved ones.

The press wants drama and they was always going to trying to use Diana's anniversary year to create some when none of it is there. No one should on the net bashing Earl Spencer, and princes William and Harry for expressing their heartfelt feelings and memories about Diana.
 
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Dman said:
It doesn't matter that I'm an American, crepe. Nothing has been said nor done to undermine the monarchy. The press is trying to stir up something of course, but what we've seen so far is very personal and touching memories and tributes to Diana from her loved ones.

The press wants drama and they was always going to trying to use Diana's anniversary year to create some when none of it is there. No one should on the net bashing Earl Spencer, and princes William and Harry for expressing their heartfelt feelings and memories about Diana.
Click to expand...

Its Cepe, by the way. And I have not criticised W&H
 
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