20th Anniversary of the Death of Diana, Princess of Wales: August 31, 2017


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miss whirley said:
"I talk about Granny Diana constantly." Ugh. Poor George and Charlotte. That doesn't sound healthy to me. Let's hope there's some exaggeration at play here. I can't imagine having a parent obsessively living in the past, to the point that they talk about it "constantly", and they want it to be the last thing I think about before I go to sleep each night. :ermm:

It's a good thing the kids have Catherine and I hope she's the dominant influence in their lives.
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For goodness sakes, both William and Catherine are on the same page in how they are raising their two children! As much as we might relate to familial concerns, none of us can ever know what it's like to grow up in a royal fishbowl. I'm sure Catherine and William both want their children to know as much as possible about a grandmother who died too soon to get to know them, but whom they will hear more and more about as they grow older in any case simply because Diana is a historic figure, not just a grandmother.

Wrap heads around it. William wants his kids to be as normal as possible before the royal reality sets in so that they can be prepared for what's in store. And he also wants them to know what a wonderful human being and mother Diana was to him and Harry. Of course it means a lot more to William at this stage. But in the end, these bedtime stories will have resonance for George and Charlotte too. They will be able to put what they hear about their long dead grandmother Diana into a proper context when other more world-based tales are told to them by people outside their family.

That's quite different from our respective non-royal realities, no?
 
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MaiaMia_53 said:
For goodness sakes, both William and Catherine are on the same page in how they are raising their two children! As much as we might relate to familial concerns, none of us can ever know what it's like to grow up in a royal fishbowl. I'm sure Catherine and William both want their children to know as much as possible about a grandmother who died too soon to get to know them, but whom they will hear more and more about as they grow older in any case simply because Diana is a historic figure, not just a grandmother.

Wrap heads around it. William wants his kids to be as normal as possible before the royal reality sets in so that they can be prepared for what's in store. And he also wants them to know what a wonderful human being and mother Diana was to him and Harry. Of course it means a lot more to William at this stage. But in the end, these bedtime stories will have resonance for George and Charlotte too. They will be able to put what they hear about their long dead grandmother Diana into a proper context when other more world-based tales are told to them by people outside their family.

That's quite different from our respective non-royal realities, no?
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I stick to my assessment of the situation based on William's own words. Royal or non-royal, William doesn't paint a healthy picture, imo. Like I said I hope William is just exaggerating in an attempt to get his point across to the public. Maybe that's the case.

It's nice that you've embraced William's words and it paints a fanciful picture for you. But we all have our different perspectives, no?
 
^^ Eh, and there's nothing at all 'fanciful' about the hard realities I was addressing. You on the other hand seem to be imagining some kind of 'negative' picture of William as a parent, which doesn't wash no matter how much soapsuds you lather up. ?

miss whirley said:
That would be a shame. Camilla strikes me as an awesome granny, a better grandparent than Charles if I'm to be blunt.

There seems to be no problem with Tim being a "grandpa" to Savannah, Isla and Mia. Even though Tim was the "other man" in Mark and Anne's dysfunctional marriage. Letting Tim be a grandpa isn't betraying Mark.
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There's no basis really for this comparison. Both Mark and Tim are still alive. And all complicated family relationships differ and therefore should not be equated.

Let's face it, we do not know the intimate day-to-day details and relationships that go on between any of the royals. Yet, suffice to say that when it comes to William's children, all evidence suggests that the predominant grandmothers he wants his children to know, honor and respect are his mother and Catherine's mother. That is in no way showing disrespect to Camilla. In any case, obviously every family is different in terms of how inter-familial relationships are naturally formed, developed, and/or managed.

Most likely Camilla is known to George and Charlotte as one of the older adults who dotes on them and happens to be married to their Grandpa Charles, but is not one of their grandmothers. A recent article mentions how much Camilla enjoys spending time with her own biological grandchildren.

BTW, I saw another recent article reporting that Prince William as a toddler called his grandmother Queen Elizabeth, 'Gary.' :D Prince George calls his great-grandmother QE, 'Gan-Gan.'
How Queen Elizabeth II's grandchildren address her in private - Business Insider

Who knows re this report, but it sounds reasonable:

This is also an interesting and reasonable report, though it only directly addresses Charles' connection with George and Charlotte, not specifically Camilla's role although it's clear she would play a secondary grandmotherly role when William's children visit Grandpa Charles:
Inside Prince Charles's Relationship with Prince George and Princess Charlotte

This tidbit about Diana's portrait with young William & Harry hanging in William's KP apartment:
Princess Diana photo in Kate and William's living room | Royal | News | Express.co.uk
 
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There are plenty of people...

...in the 'popular' press, and elsewhere, such as this board and other, similar ones, who can discuss Diana's flaws at length, and they are free so to do. These two men are also free to discuss their mother's virtues at length.

It's helpful to them, and it shouldn't harm anyone else.
 
Royal watchers are likely more obsessed over the whole topic than anyone who is directly involved. :lol:

Prince George and Princess Charlotte are too young right now to make or understand any complicated and dramatic distinctions. But still, since Diana is not alive, it is surely helpful for William as a loving father to let his children know about their grandmother (his and Harry's mother) who died before they were born. It also gives him and Catherine a chance to introduce the concept of death which young children come to experience in one way or another quite often at young ages via the death of a pet or a close older relative. And sometimes a younger relative or friend.
 
Camilla can have a relationship with George and Charlotte but she isn't their grandmother. Carole and Diana are. Diana is no longer here. However, William doesn't have to hide her pictures and never speak of her to his children. She is his mother and always will be. Talking about his mother doesn't diminish his father.

George and Charlotte need to know their family history all sides of it. William can tell of his mother while Kate can tell George stories of her Grandfather Peter who fought in RAF in WWII when the Spitfires and Hurricanes and Lancaster Bomber do a flyover of BP. Charlotte can learn of her mother's granny who helped break the code at Bletchley Park. In time, William will show George a picture of 4 monarchs and tell him about his late Gan Gan while Kate tells Charlotte about the dirty joke Papa Philip told Pippa on the balcony when Mummy married Daddy.
 
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MaiaMia_53 said:
Royal watchers are likely more obsessed over the whole topic than anyone who is directly involved. :lol:

Prince George and Princess Charlotte are too young right now to make or understand any complicated and dramatic distinctions. But still, since Diana is not alive, it is .
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well all this is exactly why I think it would have been better if WIll and Harry had not talked so deeply about private matters to do with their mother. look at all the controversy it has stirred up and unpleasant argument. Hopefully the kids wont know of this stuff, so it wont affect them to know that people are arguing, and crtiicising the way they're being brought up etc but IMO they could have done a programme to honour Diana, mentioned a little of their personal feelings witout their going on so much...
 
Of course they have rejected their father this year - over and over again they have said they were given no help when their mother died - a clear accusation that Charles wasn't there for them and failed them as a father.

They have made it clear, through their words, that they don't have any feelings for their living parent - that is their loss.

There have been reports for four years now that Charles is locked out of seeing his grandchildren and again that will be the loss of George and Charlotte. There are photos of Carole playing with them but never Charles who is only ever seen with them at Trooping the Colour and their Christenings. Even when they are away the children are with Carole and never with Charles.

Someone will argue that Charles sees them at CH at the weekends except that falls down when you know that Charles goes to Highgrove for the weekends and the Cambridges are either at Anmer or Bucklebury and not in London.
 
Diana isn't here for her grandchildren to see her and experience her love firsthand. Charles still has that opportunity. In a year when William and Harry have chosen to finally share personal memories of their deep love for their beloved mother, on the 20th anniversary of her death, a book supposedly endorsed by Camilla and Charles is released, an action that shows once again that William, Harry and Diana as a secondary thought; no lessons learned, no behaviour modified from their living parent. Thankfully as adults, William and Harry can keep good memories of their precious Mother alive.
 
Iluvbertie said:
Of course they have rejected their father this year - over and over again they have said they were given no help when their mother died - a clear accusation that Charles wasn't there for them and failed them as a father.

They have made it clear, through their words, that they don't have any feelings for their living parent - that is their loss.

There have been reports for four years now that Charles is locked out of seeing his grandchildren and again that will be the loss of George and Charlotte. There are photos of Carole playing with them but never Charles who is only ever seen with them at Trooping the Colour and their Christenings. Even when they are away the children are with Carole and never with Charles.

Someone will argue that Charles sees them at CH at the weekends except that falls down when you know that Charles goes to Highgrove for the weekends and the Cambridges are either at Anmer or Bucklebury and not in London.
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Exactly - and I agree with those who think that the public outpoor after 20 years is not a good thing. They can do whatever they want to do in private and give Diana a proper rememberance in public. No need to open all these old stories and details that nobody wants to know. The rest of the family is being made looking very bad.
 
DeeT said:
Diana isn't here for her grandchildren to see her and experience her love firsthand. Charles still has that opportunity. In a year when William and Harry have chosen to finally share personal memories of their deep love for their beloved mother, on the 20th anniversary of her death, a book supposedly endorsed by Camilla and Charles is released, an action that shows once again that William, Harry and Diana as a secondary thought; no lessons learned, no behaviour modified from their living parent. Thankfully as adults, William and Harry can keep good memories of their precious Mother alive.
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It is totally normal for books to be published when a royal reaches a milestone birthday - such as a 70th - and that is all that happened with the Camilla book.

The Diana fanatics can't actually understand that of course but to the rest of us we are able to understand that a 70th birthday is a milestone and for a royal that means books and normally documentaries etc as well.

William and Harry won't agree - as to them the only royal who matters is each other and their mother.

They know that Diana's aim was to destroy Charles and the House of Windsor and they are going to succeed - even if it means they lose everything themselves.
 
Iluvbertie said:
It is totally normal for books to be published when a royal reaches a milestone birthday - such as a 70th - and that is all that happened with the Camilla book.



The Diana fanatics can't actually understand that of course but to the rest of us we are able to understand that a 70th birthday is a milestone and for a royal that means books and normally documentaries etc as well.



William and Harry won't agree - as to them the only royal who matters is each other and their mother.



They know that Diana's aim was to destroy Charles and the House of Windsor and they are going to succeed - even if it means they lose everything themselves.
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Goodness a bit dramatic. They are the future they are not losing anything.
Charles has his own demons
 
Iluvbertie said:
It is totally normal for books to be published when a royal reaches a milestone birthday - such as a 70th - and that is all that happened with the Camilla book.

The Diana fanatics can't actually understand that of course but to the rest of us we are able to understand that a 70th birthday is a milestone and for a royal that means books and normally documentaries etc as well.

William and Harry won't agree - as to them the only royal who matters is each other and their mother.

They know that Diana's aim was to destroy Charles and the House of Windsor and they are going to succeed - even if it means they lose everything themselves.
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Celebrating one's 70th birthday is a wonderful milestone, Camilla is fortunate to enjoy her special day and year with her husband, children, step-children, grandchildren and others who are significant to her.

The House of Windsor has endured and been supported by many for years. IMO, there is also room to remember and recognize a woman who contributed enormously to ensuring that the House of Windsor and the lineage of her ex-husband continues. It is wonderful that William and Harry have chosen to share a few of their memories of their mother, Diana.
 
Skippyboo said:
It also explains why William makes sure the Middletons are not pushed aside like the families of others who married royals in the past were.
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Yes, from what I've read about Prince William first meeting Catherine's family, he has an enormous amount of respect and enduring love for them. He fell in love with his wife's family as much as he fell in love with her. He has spoken of seeing Pop Middleton as such a strong, steady and guiding influence for the entire Middleton family and for himself as well. Which once again is not a knock on his own father.

Even Prince Charles especially has had important, guiding adult influences that he has leaned on for understanding and support beyond his own parents.

It is definitely great to see that William has the strength of character to make firm, unassailable decisions regarding his personal life. It is a blessing that his children will be brought up to be nurtured by their mother's family, and to know their dead grandmother and her virtues.
 
Iluvbertie said:
Of course they have rejected their father this year - over and over again they have said they were given no help when their mother died - a clear accusation that Charles wasn't there for them and failed them as a father.

They have made it clear, through their words, that they don't have any feelings for their living parent - that is their loss.

There have been reports for four years now that Charles is locked out of seeing his grandchildren and again that will be the loss of George and Charlotte. There are photos of Carole playing with them but never Charles who is only ever seen with them at Trooping the Colour and their Christenings. Even when they are away the children are with Carole and never with Charles.

Someone will argue that Charles sees them at CH at the weekends except that falls down when you know that Charles goes to Highgrove for the weekends and the Cambridges are either at Anmer or Bucklebury and not in London.
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This is about them paying tribute and celebrating the life of their mother who's no long with them. None of this is about rejecting Charles or trying to hurt him.

Now, I do think the media is picking up on an impression that there's some tension between the Charles and Cambridge household because the family don't put on a unifying front within the monarchy. We really don't see Charles, Camilla and the Cambridge family together often. Major family get togethers yes, but on regular days no.

One way to fix all of this is for the family to do some official engagements together from time to time. A nice annual family tour around the U.K. Family photo calls for the summer of winter,would be great too.

Everyone has been waiting for Charles to become a grandfather, but we really don't see him as a grandfather. It's a problem and it causes the mainstream media to invent stories about Charles being totally shut out. It's just going to become a backlash on the Cambridge's.
 
:previous: Eh, who knows? Did you happen to read the article I linked earlier discussing Charles' interaction with Prince George and Prince Charlotte? A 'royal insider' is quoted as saying that Prince Charles is 'pragmatic' about not seeing George and Charlotte as frequently as the Middletons see them: "He is pragmatic about it. He is accepting that a daughter gravitates toward her own family." The article further relates that: "Charles does love spending time with his grandchildren... So much so that he refashioned William's childhood treehouse for George and Charlotte when they visit him at Highgrove House." A nice photo opportunity with Cambridges, Harry, the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall would be quite welcome.

Denville said:
well all this is exactly why I think it would have been better if WIll and Harry had not talked so deeply about private matters to do with their mother. look at all the controversy it has stirred up and unpleasant argument. Hopefully the kids wont know of this stuff, so it wont affect them to know that people are arguing, and crtiicising the way they're being brought up etc but IMO they could have done a programme to honour Diana, mentioned a little of their personal feelings witout their going on so much...
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:lol: You must be speaking of arguments on royals lovin' fan forums, unless you happen to frequently be a fly on the wall inside British royal palaces and residences. ?

Spill all the controversial 'royal bickering' details please! ?
 
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I do think William and Harry are being a little unfair to Charles. I have no issue with them talking about their mother as anyone should be able to talk about a parents they have lost if they want to (though to me it is a little "unroyal" to do so). However, they could have, in all these interviews of late, said one good word about Charles. Even, "well we were lucky to have our loving father still there for us" would have made it look like they weren't having a go at Charles.
 
Charles' people ( Penny Juror for example) are in a constant state of spin regarding the War of the Wales. 'Camilla the saviour of the Monarchy' according to Jurors lastest book.

This is about Diana, and the boys being able to remember her on the 20th anniversary of her death. It has nothing to do with Charles.

The boys have spent the last 20 years holding their tongues while everyone throws Diana under the bus.

After this documentary airs we will be back to 'Operation Camilla Parker-Bowles'

I don't begrudge the boys having the opportunity to speak up for their mother's legacy.
 
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tommy100 said:
I do think William and Harry are being a little unfair to Charles. I have no issue with them talking about their mother as anyone should be able to talk about a parents they have lost if they want to (though to me it is a little "unroyal" to do so). However, they could have, in all these interviews of late, said one good word about Charles. Even, "well we were lucky to have our loving father still there for us" would have made it look like they weren't having a go at Charles.
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They're not having a go at Charles. People really need to stop saying that. They're just focusing on their mother.


Rudolph said:
Charles' people ( Penny Juror for example) are in a constant state of spin regarding the War of the Wales. 'Camilla the saviour of the Monarchy' according to Jurors lastest book.

This is about Diana, and the boys being able to remember her on the 20th anniversary of her death. It has nothing to do with Charles.

The boys have spent the last 20 years holding their tongues while everyone throws Diana under the bus.

After this documentary airs we will be back to 'Operation Camilla Parker-Bowles'

I don't begrudge the boys having this opportunity to speak up for their mother's legacy.
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Indeed. For 20 years William and Harry had to sit and watch their mother's memory being thrown under a bus, in the ocean, in space and everywhere else. A great deal have gotten used to Diana being the punching bag for so long.

Now William and Harry are letting us all know who their mother really was in the most intimate way. I'll be watching tonight.
 
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Dman said:
This is about them paying tribute and celebrating the life of their mother who's no long with them. None of this is about rejecting Charles or trying to hurt him.



Now, I do think the media is picking up on an impression that there's some tension between the Charles and Cambridge household because the family don't put on a unifying front within the monarchy. We really don't see Charles, Camilla and the Cambridge family together often. Major family get togethers yes, but on regular days no.



One way to fix all of this is for the family to do some official engagements together from time to time. A nice annual family tour around the U.K. Family photo calls for the summer of winter,would be great too.



Everyone has been waiting for Charles to become a grandfather, but we really don't see him as a grandfather. It's a problem and it causes the mainstream media to invent stories about Charles being totally shut out. It's just going to become a backlash on the Cambridge's.
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You can't really have C&C, W&K and H all in the same place touring the U.K. It would be a big security risk and the press will still ignore C&C for the younger royals. Charles can control his schedule- how about not scheduling events on his grandkids birthdays for a start.
 
Iluvbertie said:
There have been reports for four years now that Charles is locked out of seeing his grandchildren and again that will be the loss of George and Charlotte. There are photos of Carole playing with them but never Charles who is only ever seen with them at Trooping the Colour and their Christenings. Even when they are away the children are with Carole and never with Charles.

.
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Somehow, I don't picture Charles taking the kids to the petting zoo or the park which are some of the paparazzi pictures we got of Carole and George, and it has been quite awhile since there have been any of those. I don't recall any with Charlotte. Also, I don't know that he'd want to do stuff like that, more likely he'll take them places when they are older.

Nor do I see him babysitting. I think he has a lot of stuff going on in his life that is planned out too far in advance for William and Catherine to say hey, can you babysit for a few days next month.

I don't believe he never sees them, maybe not as often as any of them would like, but a lot of that is his schedule.
 
Skippyboo said:
You can't really have C&C, W&K and H all in the same place touring the U.K. It would be a big security risk and the press will still ignore C&C for the younger royals. Charles can control his schedule- how about not scheduling events on his grandkids birthdays for a start.
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I think a family tour of Wales, Cornwall, or even Cambridge can be arranged. With great security in place and the media wouldn't love the family being together.

There is a PR problem with this family being so distant with each other. They have no photo calls, we don't see them enjoying some time as a family. It's beyond easy for the press to create the narrative that there's major tension between William and Charles and that Charles is shut out from seeing his grandkids.

Yes, Charles could arrange for his schedule to be at the kids parties. He's probably made it to the most recent ones. The family do get together privately, but they need to be seen getting together publicly too.
 
Dman said:
I think a family tour of Wales, Cornwall, or even Cambridge can be arranged. With great security in place and the media wouldn't love the family being together.

There is a PR problem with this family being so distant with each other. They have no photo calls, we don't see them enjoying some time as a family. It's beyond easy for the press to create the narrative that there's major tension between William and Charles and that Charles is shut out from seeing his grandkids.

Yes, Charles could arrange for his schedule to be at the kids parties. He's probably made it to the most recent ones. The family do get together privately, but they need to be seen getting together publicly too.
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They could stand to look to how the Swedes do family things...and a couple other European houses.


LaRae
 
O-H Anglophile said:
Somehow, I don't picture Charles taking the kids to the petting zoo or the park which are some of the paparazzi pictures we got of Carole and George, and it has been quite awhile since there have been any of those. I don't recall any with Charlotte. Also, I don't know that he'd want to do stuff like that, more likely he'll take them places when they are older.

Nor do I see him babysitting. I think he has a lot of stuff going on in his life that is planned out too far in advance for William and Catherine to say hey, can you babysit for a few days next month.

I don't believe he never sees them, maybe not as often as any of them would like, but a lot of that is his schedule.
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My thoughts exactly. ?
 
Rudolph said:
This is about Diana, and the boys being able to remember her on the 20th anniversary of her death. It has nothing to do with Charles.

I don't begrudge the boys having the opportunity to speak up for their mother's legacy.
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This is it in a nutshell, right now it is about Diana and good memories of her on this anniversary, it has nothing to do with Charles or their relationship with him.

I certainly do not think that just by saying good things about their mother it means William and Harry are disrespecting their father.
 
Charles can't win as usual, it's as simple as that.
- If he doesn't appear in this program, of course he's estranged from his own sons, he was a bad father and the usual brigade will scream "told you so !".
-If he's mentioned in this program, Charles is of course a hypocrite, a selfish "it's all about me" man and the boys are manipulated.

Anyway, as far i can see, the anger is still there...
 
:previous: How does your perception or any of our perceptions about the royals affect our own personal lives though? The royals are the ones who know the personal details and relationships of their own lives, not us.

What is this 'anger' you happen to be talking about though??? Maybe you are the one harboring anger and frustration. ? It looks to me as if Prince William and Prince Harry received love from their parents and have forgiven both parents for their character flaws and mistakes. Princes William and Harry are clearly happy to see their father happy. And I believe the same sentiment is felt by Prince Charles toward his sons.

You must not have taken a look at the reasonable and balanced video report I linked earlier that discusses how it was arranged for young William and Harry to meet individually with Camilla for tea, in order to have a chance to become comfortable together, prior to the lead-up to Camilla and Charles getting married. Harry and William have had nothing but kind things to say publicly about Camilla.
 
While I do think that Charles could see more of his grandchildren if he wants to, it's been my experience that grandfathers are seldom as eager as grandmothers.

My own dear father said he looked forward to spending time with them "when they learn to talk well." And my father-in-law said he could hardly wait for "Ethelred" to arrive for a visit, but after a short time, he could hardly wait for him to leave!

It's unlikely that anyone is actively withholding the kids from Granpa Charles.
 
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