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  #481  
Old 05-02-2021, 04:13 PM
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I find that some of the opinions shared in this thread is borderline misogynistic. It is possible to love someone who suffers from an addiction enough to marry them even if they are rich. Caroline has never seemed one who's impressed by status or wealth. She has bucket loads of that herself. If anything both her first marriage and her life after she became a widow shows that she did not care for marrying someone suitable or that she craved a public life. Instead she fought all the way up to the European Court of Human rights for her right to be left alone.
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  #482  
Old 05-02-2021, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
I find that some of the opinions shared in this thread is borderline misogynistic. It is possible to love someone who suffers from an addiction enough to marry them even if they are rich. Caroline has never seemed one who's impressed by status or wealth. She has bucket loads of that herself. If anything both her first marriage and her life after she became a widow shows that she did not care for marrying someone suitable or that she craved a public life. Instead she fought all the way up to the European Court of Human rights for her right to be left alone.
JR76 you said it all...
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  #483  
Old 05-02-2021, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
I find that some of the opinions shared in this thread is borderline misogynistic. It is possible to love someone who suffers from an addiction enough to marry them even if they are rich. Caroline has never seemed one who's impressed by status or wealth. She has bucket loads of that herself. If anything both her first marriage and her life after she became a widow shows that she did not care for marrying someone suitable or that she craved a public life. Instead she fought all the way up to the European Court of Human rights for her right to be left alone.
So if she's not impressed by wealth, why did she not marry the actor whom she was supposed to be in love with?
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  #484  
Old 05-03-2021, 03:30 AM
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We cannot know what happened inside a couple, consequently we cannot know why they did not marry.
In this case, Caroline started her relationship with Vincent Lindon (the actor) after she had lost her 2nd husband, and was in a very delicate and difficult situation, widow with 3 very young kids.
She escaped Monaco and the limelight and went to leave to the countryside, in Saint Remy. They were approached in very special and sensitive period for her, and relationship lasted some years. Furthermore, when Caroline jumped back to her previous way of life, it was not obvious that Vincent could/ wanted to fit to this life.
Don't forget that both Stefano and after EA, fitted to Caroline's life in Monaco, official representations, first Lady etc. When she was better and returned back, differences started to appear. In top of that, apparently it was the religion's issue, as Vincent Lindon I think was not christian. Not to compare with EA who is christian Lutheran.
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So if she's not impressed by wealth, why did she not marry the actor whom she was supposed to be in love with?
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  #485  
Old 05-03-2021, 04:18 AM
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that all seems very confusing. If she wasn't the type of person to care about "royal life" and having great wealth and mixing with the upper set, why not marry the man she loved. Yes there were religious differences but if she was truly in love with him, surely they could have been overcome? Esp as there were religious differences between her and Ernest?
One minute people are saying that Rainier said that " at least Ernest is one of us".. others are saying that Caroline didn't care about "being one of us", and was more concerned iwth her private life and having a man she loved.
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  #486  
Old 05-03-2021, 05:02 AM
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We all agree that Caroline has always followed her heart. Furthermore, we cannot know the exact paths her heart followed.
Understand that the question was why she choose EA and not Vincent Lindon. But they were not in the same period. The relationship with Vincent was before, it lasted for years, and has worn out as many relationships after some years. Adding also the life difference. And then EA arrived, they shared feelings, but so same conception of life.
I think is easy to conceive.
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  #487  
Old 05-03-2021, 06:39 AM
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that all seems very confusing. If she wasn't the type of person to care about "royal life" and having great wealth and mixing with the upper set, why not marry the man she loved. Yes there were religious differences but if she was truly in love with him, surely they could have been overcome? Esp as there were religious differences between her and Ernest?
One minute people are saying that Rainier said that " at least Ernest is one of us".. others are saying that Caroline didn't care about "being one of us", and was more concerned iwth her private life and having a man she loved.
We don't actually know that Rainier actually said that although it was reported at the time. Personally, I've always been a bit dubious about that given his own personal relationships (GisŤle Pascal and Princess Grace) as well as the various partners of his children and other relatives that he accepted.

The relationship with Vincent Lindon ran its course - as much on his side as on hers. At a certain time of her life she wanted privacy for herself and her children, given the tragedy they had gone through.

As for wealth, Vincent Lindon may not have been as rich as Caroline or Ernst but he wasn't short of money - he is a member of a very wealthy family. Caroline's tastes in men in terms of social status and wealth have always been pretty similar - rich, successful, educated and from within her own social circle. She isn't like her sister who has seemed to seek out the exact opposite.

The situation changed, she realised she didn't mind the society life as much as she had immediately after being widowed. The children were coming up to their secondary education which would have involved some changes anyway.

How is it confusing? A lot of people have different moments in life when what they want changes with circumstances.

Just my opinion, of course.
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  #488  
Old 05-03-2021, 06:49 AM
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The problem is that Ernest is a very unattractive character.. he is an alcoholic who is capable of violent and dreadful behavior. Its difficult to see what could attract anyone to him, other than ambition... Even if she was for some reason infatuated with him some years ago and had an affair and became pregnant that was a LOOOOONG time ago and he's deteriorated since then. The family dont seem to have any problems with getting divorced so why has she stayed married to him? Her daughter is grown up, she is not living iwth EA any more, why not end the marriage?
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  #489  
Old 05-03-2021, 07:12 AM
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The problem is that Ernest is a very unattractive character.. he is an alcoholic who is capable of violent and dreadful behavior. Its difficult to see what could attract anyone to him, other than ambition... Even if she was for some reason infatuated with him some years ago and had an affair and became pregnant that was a LOOOOONG time ago and he's deteriorated since then. The family dont seem to have any problems with getting divorced so why has she stayed married to him? Her daughter is grown up, she is not living iwth EA any more, why not end the marriage?
Probably a mixture of complex reasons to which we will never be party. He could also divorce her but he doesn't - my guess is the situation suits them both.
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  #490  
Old 05-03-2021, 07:21 AM
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Yes probalby they would be less well off if they divorced - or EA doesn't really care one way or the other.
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  #491  
Old 05-03-2021, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Are you saying friends with Lagerfeld opened doors for her?

I guess you are right that her marriage to Ernst has opened doors for her in ways it hadnít been before. She got more attention with royalty so I get it. But since their separation, it seems like other royal families donít pay much attention to her...



Grace would have loved Stefano. I think thatís Carolineís true love.
Sorry, for answering so late.
Well, most of her life before Ernest she was mostly known being connected to fashion but not much more. Never had a real job or something she could show or gain respect, except those very few duties she did as First Lady of Monaco after Grazia had passed away.
And of course the paps loved her, marrying a playboy first, then asking church for annulment, while ignoring church marrying the next sunnyboy, all drama the yellow press loves to make up stories about.


But it was only after she became a german princess that she could attend royal events, EA was invited because of his high position.
I do not see that EA is being ignored because of his fallouts in the past which occured AFTER he married Caroline. All these things are not to be judged by others, he holds the title and that's important for protocol.
After all he himself never searched the limelight it was Caroline, now she is gone he leads again a very private life.
I never had the impression that she would really have liked to take the role of E'wife, the royal events yes, but the "boring" rest, like minding this terribly huge castles in Germany, dealing with his ex and their sons and everything else on a daily base.
Going to a fancy royal event can be nice , but if you take a deeper look at german or austrian (where EAl likes to be) noble families most of it is not in the limelight but hard work, some are still unbelievably rich, but they live a quiet life, trying to maintain their castles and forest.....doing some charity, but being very modest.
I've never seen Caroline doing or working anything like that, which is Ok, she comes from a very little place, was obviously only expected to look nice and marry.
I do not know but think either EA really had a whirlwind affair and fell for her or the pregnancy made him marry her, after all it did not seem a clever thing to do and soon turned out a fault.
As you can see I am not d'accord with blaming only EA, there is always two and maybe his biggest fault was to believe Caroline was the right one for the job.
Caroline is back to what IMO she was never ready to leave, a life with fancy dresses, paps and parties and no real work, now her beauty fades with aging and Albert happily married her life got somehow more quiet.
I wish them happiness.
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  #492  
Old 05-05-2021, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
The problem is that Ernest is a very unattractive character.. he is an alcoholic who is capable of violent and dreadful behavior. Its difficult to see what could attract anyone to him, other than ambition... Even if she was for some reason infatuated with him some years ago and had an affair and became pregnant that was a LOOOOONG time ago and he's deteriorated since then. The family dont seem to have any problems with getting divorced so why has she stayed married to him? Her daughter is grown up, she is not living iwth EA any more, why not end the marriage?
Ernest has not ALWAYS been an unattractive character. You continue to repeat that, but the E-A of the 70,s 80's and 90's was reportedly a very charming and popular man. This was before his illness took over in the early 2000's.

As for the money he brought to the marriage...why not? The Caroline of the late 90's was no starry eyed romantic ingenue. She was on the precipice of middle age with three child to raise and educate. The financial security that E-A brought to the marriage might
have factored in to her decision to marry, but i doubt it would have been the main reason.

Caroline was never going to be in the position of having her car repossessed for non payment no matter who she married.
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  #493  
Old 05-05-2021, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by valeas View Post
Sorry, for answering so late.
Well, most of her life before Ernest she was mostly known being connected to fashion but not much more. Never had a real job or something she could show or gain respect, except those very few duties she did as First Lady of Monaco after Grazia had passed away.
And of course the paps loved her, marrying a playboy first, then asking church for annulment, while ignoring church marrying the next sunnyboy, all drama the yellow press loves to make up stories about.


But it was only after she became a german princess that she could attend royal events, EA was invited because of his high position.
I do not see that EA is being ignored because of his fallouts in the past which occured AFTER he married Caroline. All these things are not to be judged by others, he holds the title and that's important for protocol.
After all he himself never searched the limelight it was Caroline, now she is gone he leads again a very private life.
I never had the impression that she would really have liked to take the role of E'wife, the royal events yes, but the "boring" rest, like minding this terribly huge castles in Germany, dealing with his ex and their sons and everything else on a daily base.
Going to a fancy royal event can be nice , but if you take a deeper look at german or austrian (where EAl likes to be) noble families most of it is not in the limelight but hard work, some are still unbelievably rich, but they live a quiet life, trying to maintain their castles and forest.....doing some charity, but being very modest.
I've never seen Caroline doing or working anything like that, which is Ok, she comes from a very little place, was obviously only expected to look nice and marry.
I do not know but think either EA really had a whirlwind affair and fell for her or the pregnancy made him marry her, after all it did not seem a clever thing to do and soon turned out a fault.
As you can see I am not d'accord with blaming only EA, there is always two and maybe his biggest fault was to believe Caroline was the right one for the job.
Caroline is back to what IMO she was never ready to leave, a life with fancy dresses, paps and parties and no real work, now her beauty fades with aging and Albert happily married her life got somehow more quiet.
I wish them happiness.
I'm sorry but it is not true to say she does nothing but wear fancy clothes and attend parties. She has done a lot to promote culture in Monaco and even more to improve the lot of children and young people around the world.

You may not approve of how she has conducted her personal life but your summation of what she has achieved in her life is erroneous and superficial IMO.
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  #494  
Old 05-05-2021, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Florestane View Post
I'm sorry but it is not true to say she does nothing but wear fancy clothes and attend parties. She has done a lot to promote culture in Monaco and even more to improve the lot of children and young people around the world.

You may not approve of how she has conducted her personal life but your summation of what she has achieved in her life is erroneous and superficial IMO.
I did not sum it up, sorry not my intention, but tried to point out the difference between her Monaco lifestyle and what EA might have needed as noble life is a lot different in EA's circles let alone Germany and Austria.
The main tenor here seems to be Caroline is the victim of this marriage,
I see EA aswell and not as a villain in this story. There is always two in a marriage, and I see no need to point out every single thing again in each post as I expect other posters to be capable to abstract.
Caroline simply isn't the saint in this story because she is Caroline as EA isn't the monster, he was a nice man most of his life before he went with her. What changes him-we do not know, sometimes partners bring out the worst in you.
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  #495  
Old 05-05-2021, 03:54 PM
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Agree to what you said. EA had the alcoholism issue, but he had other positive points.
He was a handsome man, very rich and from an extremely good family, well educated. He was supposed to be very agreeable, with great sense of humor.
In top of this, he was always near her. I don't think he has never been unfaithful, and this count also. We don't know which was the turning point after it his addiction was unbearable. I remember in 2005, after he was very ill, he tried hardly to get rid of. He did not manage, but this does not mean, all his personality was a rubbish. Consequently, since Caroline was attracted by him in many points, it was not easy to cut immediately.
I don't understand why people are so radical and negative against him. He had many good points to be a good husband, and one bad. That's it.
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Ernest has not ALWAYS been an unattractive character. You continue to repeat that, but the E-A of the 70,s 80's and 90's was reportedly an exceedingly charming and popular man. This was before his illness took over in the early 2000's.

As for the money he brought to the marriage...why not? The Caroline of the late 90's was no starry eyed romantic ingenue. She was on the precipice of middle age with three child to raise and educate. The financial security that E-A brought to the marriage would have factored in to her decision to marry, but i doubt it would have been the main reason.

Caroline was never going to be in the position of having her car repossessed for non payment no matter who she married.
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  #496  
Old 05-05-2021, 04:18 PM
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There is no point to name the saint and the guilty into the story, nor to any marriage. Both sides despite their clean and glamorous face, might have important character defaults. Furthermore, EA had a very important issue, the alcohol. Addiction change people's character and provokes further dramas, such as violence etc.
As EAs alcoholism was well known, people trend to put Caroline in victim's side. Matter is logical, as a drank, violent husband, is very difficult to cope with, especially when you have a kid together. Even if in rich circles matter is slightly more manageable than in poor one's, at the end of the day, a drunk husband out of control, is a drunk out of control, in a 2rooms appartment or in a palace, drama is the same.
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I did not sum it up, sorry not my intention, but tried to point out the difference between her Monaco lifestyle and what EA might have needed as noble life is a lot different in EA's circles let alone Germany and Austria.
The main tenor here seems to be Caroline is the victim of this marriage,
I see EA aswell and not as a villain in this story. There is always two in a marriage, and I see no need to point out every single thing again in each post as I expect other posters to be capable to abstract.
Caroline simply isn't the saint in this story because she is Caroline as EA isn't the monster, he was a nice man most of his life before he went with her. What changes him-we do not know, sometimes partners bring out the worst in you.
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  #497  
Old 05-05-2021, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by valeas View Post
Sorry, for answering so late.
Well, most of her life before Ernest she was mostly known being connected to fashion but not much more. Never had a real job or something she could show or gain respect, except those very few duties she did as First Lady of Monaco after Grazia had passed away.
And of course the paps loved her, marrying a playboy first, then asking church for annulment, while ignoring church marrying the next sunnyboy, all drama the yellow press loves to make up stories about.


But it was only after she became a german princess that she could attend royal events, EA was invited because of his high position.
I do not see that EA is being ignored because of his fallouts in the past which occured AFTER he married Caroline. All these things are not to be judged by others, he holds the title and that's important for protocol.
After all he himself never searched the limelight it was Caroline, now she is gone he leads again a very private life.
I never had the impression that she would really have liked to take the role of E'wife, the royal events yes, but the "boring" rest, like minding this terribly huge castles in Germany, dealing with his ex and their sons and everything else on a daily base.
Going to a fancy royal event can be nice , but if you take a deeper look at german or austrian (where EAl likes to be) noble families most of it is not in the limelight but hard work, some are still unbelievably rich, but they live a quiet life, trying to maintain their castles and forest.....doing some charity, but being very modest.
I've never seen Caroline doing or working anything like that, which is Ok, she comes from a very little place, was obviously only expected to look nice and marry.
I do not know but think either EA really had a whirlwind affair and fell for her or the pregnancy made him marry her, after all it did not seem a clever thing to do and soon turned out a fault.
As you can see I am not d'accord with blaming only EA, there is always two and maybe his biggest fault was to believe Caroline was the right one for the job.
Caroline is back to what IMO she was never ready to leave, a life with fancy dresses, paps and parties and no real work, now her beauty fades with aging and Albert happily married her life got somehow more quiet.
I wish them happiness.
Princess Caroline is a workhorse, devoted to the cultural enrichment of the Principality through the Prince Pierre Literary Awards of which she is president, as well as her tireless work for AMADE, which she founded in her 20's to promote children's welfare. Her work with AMADE in particular takes her to some very risky places, like Third World refugee camps. She also pinch hits in Monaco for her brother Albert
occasionally,taking on tasks that his consort cannot(or will not) perform.

Meanwhile, she does indeed lead the life of the exceedingly wealthy woman she is.....enjoying the company of her children and their young families during summer cruises on the Med in her luxurious yacht and ski holidays at her Austrian chalet in winter.

It sounds like a very full and satisfying life, if I may say so.
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  #498  
Old 05-05-2021, 05:28 PM
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I remember Caroline was bound and determined to marry Philippe Junot despite her parents misgivings. He was older and a playboy. THe marriage really fizzled out when he was seen with other women on the honeymoon. She could never get that marriage annulled so she could marry her second husband in the Catholic Church.
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  #499  
Old 05-06-2021, 01:25 AM
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I remember Caroline was bound and determined to marry Philippe Junot despite her parents misgivings. He was older and a playboy. THe marriage really fizzled out when he was seen with other women on the honeymoon. She could never get that marriage annulled so she could marry her second husband in the Catholic Church.
Oh it finally was annulled but to late to marry Stefano as he had died before
and as EA was then divorced no way she could marry him or anybody else after this civil marriage again....unless there'd be kore annullments which is fairly unlike to happen. But as far as I know Caroline and ES are still married, so no need to discuss this further more.
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