Titles and Styles of the Sussex Family 1

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

As for the Sussex little ones, style them like the children of a non-royal duke. That way they have something, but not what they'd have if their parents were still senior working royals.

They are already styled as children of a duke as their father is a duke. However, their parents said they did not want the children to use those styles.

If Harry is stripped of his dukedom, then Archie is automatically affected too since he is Harry's heir and will be the next Duke of Sussex if he outlives his father.

On the other hand, the only precedent for descendants of the British Royal Family being stripped of peerages was in 1917 and not only did it require an act of Parliament, but also it applied only to German princes who took arms against the United Kingdom in World War I. That is hardly Harry's case.

[kalnel]

If there's any announcement about the children's titles -- and it's certainly not the most pressing issue facing Charles -- my guess is that it will be that has Harry and Meghan have stepped out of the life of working royalty, their children will be known as Master and Miss (or Mr. and Ms.) until they reach the age of 18. At that point, they can decide whether to use their titles as working royals.

That would put them on the same footing as Louise and James, and it would acknowledge that they have the right to a title, if they choose to adopt it.

[HRHHermione]

To me, what’s most important here is that these children are never excluded or made to feel lesser than. In my opinion, nothing the royal family has done would do that. I hope they are always welcomed and that they have the opportunity to get to know their cousins and their heritage.

I also think it’s very much up to their parents and that their parents have to decide what is most important to the well-being of their children. If the Sussex couple want their children to have titles and to be centered as a part of the royal family- not as heirs, but as cousins like Harry and William’s own cousins- then the Sussex couple should move back to the UK and negotiate a return to royal duty.

If they do not wish to do this, and they want their kids raised privately without media attention in the U.S. than they should give up any titles.

Trying to raise any children with a Prince or Princess title in U.S. schools just seems cruel to me. They will always be singled out in a way their peers won’t understand.

[Hallo girl]

The decision will have been made, but not announced until after the funeral nothing should distract from the days leading up to HM funeral.

[Carin]

Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

As for the Sussex little ones, style them like the children of a non-royal duke. That way they have something, but not what they'd have if their parents were still senior working royals.

They already have that. Harry and Meghan decided not to use the ducal titles for whatever reason.

[SirGyamfi1]

Originally Posted by HRHHermione

To me, what’s most important here is that these children are never excluded or made to feel lesser than. In my opinion, nothing the royal family has done would do that. I hope they are always welcomed and that they have the opportunity to get to know their cousins and their heritage.

I also think it’s very much up to their parents and that their parents have to decide what is most important to the well-being of their children. If the Sussex couple want their children to have titles and to be centered as a part of the royal family- not as heirs, but as cousins like Harry and William’s own cousins- then the Sussex couple should move back to the UK and negotiate a return to royal duty.

If they do not wish to do this, and they want their kids raised privately without media attention in the U.S. than they should give up any titles.

Trying to raise any children with a Prince or Princess title in U.S. schools just seems cruel to me. They will always be singled out in a way their peers won’t understand.

In what way will they be singled out? The late Queen Elizabeth II’s other great-grandchildren from Zara to the York girls children don’t have titles or the style of HRH, even Louise and James who should have had the titles and style, but haven’t accepted it . They will live in America where titles aren’t acknowledged so it would be pointless.

[Alison H]

They'll always be singled out to some extent anyway, because they'll be the King's grandchildren whether they're Master and Miss or HRH Prince and HRH Princess.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by HRHHermione

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If they do not wish to do this, and they want their kids raised privately without media attention in the U.S. than they should give up any titles.

Trying to raise any children with a Prince or Princess title in U.S. schools just seems cruel to me. They will always be singled out in a way their peers won’t understand.

Since the titles are not legally recognized in the US or in the state of California, I assume the children simply won't use them there.

Recently a newspaper reporting on a social event in New York cited Princess Madeleine of Sweden as "Madeleine O'Neill". I believe, but cannot confirm that this is also how Madeleine's children are named at school in Florida. Note that, although her children were stripped of the HRH styles by King Carl Gustaf, they are still Prince/Princess and Duke/Duchess of [xxx] in Sweden itself; their personal coat of arms is the Royal Coat of Arms of Sweden with a differenced third quarter displaying the arms of their respective duchies. Yet, they do not use their titles and styles in the United States.

If The Sun's report is accurate, it appears to me that what is being proposed for Harry's children is basically the same that was applied to Madeleine's children, who are also American and are being raised in the US.

[SirGyamfi1]

Originally Posted by Alison H

They'll always be singled out to some extent anyway, because they'll be the King's grandchildren whether they're Master and Miss or HRH Prince and HRH Princess.

It really isn’t a big issue IMO. It’s down to perception of the situation. I really don’t get why people want to make it seem like it’s the worst thing in the world.

[Duc_et_Pair]

There is no any problem at all.

Legally Camilla was HRH The Princess of Wales. In practice she was known as HRH The Duchess of Cornwall or (when in Scotland) as HRH The Duchess of Rothesay.

Legally Louise is HRH Princess Louise of Wessex. In practice - formally- she is known as Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor.

Legally James is HRH Prince James of Wessex. In practice - formally- he is known as Lord James Mountbatten-Windsor, Viscount Severn.

Legally Archie is HRH Prince Archie of Sussex. In practice - formally- , most likely, he will be known as Lord Archie Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of Dumbarton.

Legally Lillibet is HRH Princess Lillibet of Sussex. In practice, - formally-, most likely, she will be known as Lady Lillibet Mountbatten-Windsor.

Legally Katharine is HRH The Duchess of Kent. In practice she was known as Mrs Kent (at the school where she did teach music).

There is just a difference between what someone legally is entitled to and what the preference is in practice. No more, no less. It is not all that heavy or difficult stuff, folks.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Alison H

They'll always be singled out to some extent anyway, because they'll be the King's grandchildren whether they're Master and Miss or HRH Prince and HRH Princess.

If they are in the US, I think using the titles HRH and Prince/ss would be just asking for teasing at school.

[Alisa]

There really is no big issue. Lots of royals been educated and have worked here in the US. By convention they have used their family name or some derivative..

For ex. HSH Prince Maximilian of Liechtenstein was simply Mr. Max Liechtenstein here in the US. He was educated and worked in the finance sector in NY.

Another example is HRH Princess Alexandra of Luxembourg who was educated here in the USA and was simply Miss Alexandra Nassau.

Personally, I feel the Sussexes kids should be. HRH Prince(ss) of Sussexes. But as they are growing up and are being educated they should remain Mr./Miss X Mountbatten-Windsor.

[Sister Morphine]

Originally Posted by Denville

If they are in the US, I think using the titles HRH and Prince/ss would be just asking for teasing at school.

You think they'd send their kids to a public (U.S. public) school? Their kids will go to expensive private schools where a lot of the other students are kids of famous people or politicians or what have you. If they get teased for anything, it'll be having red hair, not for having Prince or Princess in front of their names.

[Erin9]

At an absolute minimum, I don’t think they should get more than the Wessex kids. At a minimum.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Erin9

At an absolute minimum, I don’t think they should get more than the Wessex kids. At a minimum.

They are exactky the same as the Wessex kids.

Like the Wessexes they are grandchildren of a Sovereign.

Like the Wessexes they are princes (princesses) of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern-Ireland with the prefix HRH.

But -like the Wessexes- they are not addressed as such.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

You think they'd send their kids to a public (U.S. public) school? Their kids will go to expensive private schools where a lot of the other students are kids of famous people or politicians or what have you. If they get teased for anything, it'll be having red hair, not for having Prince or Princess in front of their names.

Even George and his siblings were formerly George/Charlotte/Louis Cambridge, now Wales, at school. I don't think they are normally addressed at school as HRH Prince/Princess although everybody in the UK obviously knows who they are.

In the olden days, royal princes and princesses did not go to normal schools. They were homeschooled (i.e., educated in the Palace) by private tutors and had little contact with other children. This has now long changed. All the current generation of heirs or monarchs in Europe, and the respective heirs of the latter, were or are being educated in normal schools with other "normal" children (I think Queen Elizabeth II was the last reigning monarch in the continent who had not attended a regular school). Whether it is a public school or an exclusive private school is really unimportant or irrelevant to the discussion in my opinion.

It is not surprising that princes now go to regular schools and, later, university or maybe even graduate school, as those institutions, at least in my opinion, can provide a much broader and higher quality education than private tutors. Moreover, attending regular schools keep royal children more in touch with the real world (or "down to earth") than they otherwise were when they had secluded lives.

[SirGyamfi1]

Young royal children of today aren’t formally addressed by titles anyways so I don’t understand the fuss. Moreover the children will probably live and stay in a country where titles aren’t recognized. People should stop mentioning equality because that doesn’t mean that a child is less loved whether they have titles or not. The only reason why people are tying the working royals issue to titles is because the public are assuming that some of the extended family are paid for by taxpayers(which isn’t true) and also since the scandals of the 90s, there is a desire for less royals with titles and styles.

[Sister Morphine]

Originally Posted by Denville

Did i say that?

You said kids in school would tease them if they had "HRH Prince/Princess" before their names. Something like that would be more apt to occur at a public school than a private school, which is where Harry and Meghan would most likely choose to send their kids. Since private schools tend to cater to kids from more affluent backgrounds, even if they were titled, they wouldn't stand out as much.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

You said kids in school would tease them if they had "HRH Prince/Princess" before their names. Something like that would be more apt to occur at a public school than a private school, which is where Harry and Meghan would most likely choose to send their kids. Since private schools tend to cater to kids from more affluent backgrounds, even if they were titled, they wouldn't stand out as much.

of course they will go to private schools. That does not mean that they wont be teased if using royal titles or even Earl of Dumbarton etc.

[Heavs]

Believe me teasing/bullying over background, family, finances (among many, many other things) can happen even in the most elite schools to anyone. Look at the culture at Herlufsholm or the fact that Princess Aiko got badly bullied at Japan's most elite school where most of the old aristocracy still go. It's not a reason they should (or shouldn't) have HRH.

Personally I think that being like Lady Louise, Viscount Severn, Zara, Peter or in the generation above - Lady Sarah Chatto is the best of both worlds.

Having the Prince/ss titles really opens you up to public scrutiny and complaining even if you're not a working royal or receiving taxpayer money in any way. I doubt Bea or Eugenie would have received half the stick they did if they were "Lady" even with their parents' scandals.