Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[Jo of Palatine]

The idea is quite simply: the souverain as the fount of all honours is at the centre. The closer a person is to this center, the higher he/she is in the order of precedence. The souverain at his/her pleasure can change this grade of closeness. Spouses share their husband/wife's place when said person is present.

Of course the husband of the queen is closer to her than her sons. And her sons are closer than her grandsons. But once Charles is king, his sons will be closer to him than his brothers, thus the order changes.

 

[Iluvbertie]

i guess where I disagree is that the son of the prince of wales is a more senior royal than the duke of york. needless to say, it will be interesting to see which of us is eventually correct!

I am not disagreeing with you about their relative importance just suggesting a reason why they might get Earldoms rather than Dukedoms from the present monarch - namely that she wishes to emphasise her own sons over her grandsons.

 

[Menarue]

I believe the Queen has quite a few Dukedoms under her sleeve. One is the Duke of Clarence but they seem to be keeping clear of that one, as the last one to bear that name wasn´t exactly a model of virtue or anything else.

 

[branchg]

Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence and Avondale, did not live to see his father Edward become king, so I guess there is a precedence that queen Victoria created at least this grandson a Royal Duke.

The precedent since Victoria's reign has been to grant dukedoms only to the sons of the Sovereign. William automatically becomes The Duke of Cornwall upon the death of The Queen and Charles can elevate Harry to a dukedom at that time.

 

[Iluvbertie]

As Queen Victoria was the last monarch to have adult grandsons in the male line in her lifetime it is a bit of a stretch to make that claim.

She created both her grandsons, through the Prince of Wales, Dukes during her lifetime.

George V certainly created his sons Dukes but his eldest son didn't have any children so the potential for an adult son to be given a Dukedom didn't exist. His other sons didn't have adult children when George V died in 1936.

George VI was in the same boat as his only grandson was only 3 when George VI died.

So Elizabeth is in the same situation that Victoria was - she has adult grandsons in the male line in her lifetime.

What, if any title, she gives them will be up to her when she sees fit.

 

[branchg]

I agree. However, one clue is granting Prince Edward an earldom, rather than a dukedom, upon his marriage to Sophie. On top of that, his children are being styled at the present time as children of an Earl, rather than the male-line grandchildren of the Sovereign as HRH Prince/Princess of the UK.

I think the new trend is to minimize the titles and honours to "downsize" the royal family. But, of course, William and Harry could very well be created Dukes by their grandmother upon marriage if she so chooses.

 

[wbenson]

I think William and Harry being made Dukes, if they marry during the Queen's lifetime, is a strong possibility. Yes, there has been a trend of downsizing the honours of the family, but it's kind of an inevitability that they will be senior members of the family at one point, and the Queen seemed to recognize that when she gave William the Garter.

 

[Kotroman]

I just hope that (in case of engagement and wedding) the media doesn't proclaim her Princess Kate like they proclaimed his mother Princess Diana

(I really hate when the media refer to her as "Princess Diana")

 

[Lady Ann]

What would they call her Princess William of Wales??? would he get some other title upon marriage that she could be called something else ....this most likey has another thread some where right? No dumb questions....any one

 

[Mermaid1962]

I'm 100% certain that she'll be dupped "Princess Kate" in the popular and media mind. I expect that she'll officially be Princess William of Wales until she's the Princess of Wales--if they marry, that is.

I just hope that (in case of engagement and wedding) the media doesn't proclaim her Princess Kate like they proclaimed his mother Princess Diana

(I really hate when the media refer to her as "Princess Diana")

 

[Duchess]

What would they call her Princess William of Wales??? would he get some other title upon marriage that she could be called something else ....this most likey has another thread some where right? No dumb questions....any one

if i'm not mistaken, and i hope the experts will correct if i am, a) the women that have married HM son's are all princess charles, princess andrew and princess edward. b) diana should have always been referred to as diana, princess of wales and not princess diana. c) if william marries before he becomes prince of wales, no doubt he will become a duke and catherine will be then be referred to as duchess. d) if/when william becomes prince of wales, catherine will then be catherine, princess of wales. experts...how did i do?

 

[Kotroman]

She would be HRH Princess William of Wales if she marries him during his grandmother's lifetime and would be officially known as such unless William gets a substantive title. On Charles's accession she would become Duchess of Cornwall and soon after Princess of Wales. Although I'm afraid Mermaid is right - she is most likely going to be "Princess Kate"

Diana was HRH The Princess Charles [his other names], Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall [other titles] - shortly, HRH The Princess of Wales - during her marriage. She was Diana, Princess of Wales only after her divorce Anyway, you are right: she was never, never, never Princess Diana.

 

[Menarue]

I hope she stays Miss Kate Middleton....

 

[iakynthi]

 

[Maricar]

Diana was HRH The Princess Charles [his other names], Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall [other titles] - shortly, HRH The Princess of Wales - during her marriage. She was Diana, Princess of Wales only after her divorce Anyway, you are right: she was never, never, never Princess Diana.

This is all very fascinating to me, the uses and (mis)uses of a royal's titles and styles. Can anyone recommend a good history book to brush up on these things?

 

[Mermaid1962]

Diana wasn't Diana, Princess of Wales until after her divorce. After she married The Prince of Wales, she was The Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Countess of Chester, etc. etc. I think that she was probably popularly called "Princess Diana" because she had been known up to that point as Lady Diana, and it seemed strange not to use her first name at all. Even "The Princess of Wales" seemed strange to me at first, because there hadn't been one since Queen Mary was The Princess of Wales!

My grandmother, who was born in 1890, always referred to Diana as The Princess of Wales.

If Kate marries William, and he doesn't receive another title, she'll be officially Princess William of Wales until she becomes The Princess of Wales. Her first name won't be used again officially until she becomes Queen Catherine.

if i'm not mistaken, and i hope the experts will correct if i am, a) the women that have married HM son's are all princess charles, princess andrew and princess edward. b) diana should have always been referred to as diana, princess of wales and not princess diana. c) if william marries before he becomes prince of wales, no doubt he will become a duke and catherine will be then be referred to as duchess. d) if/when william becomes prince of wales, catherine will then be catherine, princess of wales. experts...how did i do?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Small correction - she would be Princess William of Wales until she become Duchess of Cornwall. There is no guarantee that she would ever become The Princess of Wales as that title has to be created for William whereas he inherits the Duke of Cornwall etc titles instantly his grandmother dies and his father becomes King.

 

[ghost_night554]

I'd imagine the press would probably still call her Princess Kate, right? I don't know why but HRH Princess William of Wales sounds odd to me guess I'll just have to get used to it if it happens.

 

[Ella Kay]

I'd imagine the press would probably still call her Princess Kate, right? I don't know why but HRH Princess William of Wales sounds odd to me guess I'll just have to get used to it if it happens.

More likely that they'll call her The Duchess of Whatever (yes, I'm sure that will be the actual title), as The Queen will almost undoubtedly grant William a dukedom when he marries. (Cambridge is my favorite choice, too, because of Diana and the Cambridge emeralds she wore so frequently.)

The press never called Sarah, Duchess of York "Princess Fergie," did they? I can't recall. They incorrectly called Diana "Princess Diana," but at least "Princess" was a part of her most-used title.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Ah yes, a small point that I forgot about. Thanks for the clarification.

Small correction - she would be Princess William of Wales until she become Duchess of Cornwall. There is no guarantee that she would ever become The Princess of Wales as that title has to be created for William whereas he inherits the Duke of Cornwall etc titles instantly his grandmother dies and his father becomes King.

 

[Mermaid1962]

That's true. Sarah never got Princess Fergie or Princess Sarah. I've seen her called "Lady Sarah Ferguson", though...by writers who obviously didn't bother checking.

More likely that they'll call her The Duchess of Whatever (yes, I'm sure that will be the actual title), as The Queen will almost undoubtedly grant William a dukedom when he marries. (Cambridge is my favorite choice, too, because of Diana and the Cambridge emeralds she wore so frequently.)

The press never called Sarah, Duchess of York "Princess Fergie," did they? I can't recall. They incorrectly called Diana "Princess Diana," but at least "Princess" was a part of her most-used title.

 

[Mermaid1962]

"Princess Michael of Kent" probably sounded strange at first as well. I expect she'd be referred to as Princess Kate by ordinary, everyday folks.

I'd imagine the press would probably still call her Princess Kate, right? I don't know why but HRH Princess William of Wales sounds odd to me guess I'll just have to get used to it if it happens.

 

[ghost_night554]

"Princess Michael of Kent" probably sounded strange at first as well. I expect she'd be referred to as Princess Kate by ordinary, everyday folks.

Ya, well I know I'll be calling her Princess Kate if she marries William

More likely that they'll call her The Duchess of Whatever (yes, I'm sure that will be the actual title), as The Queen will almost undoubtedly grant William a dukedom when he marries. (Cambridge is my favorite choice, too, because of Diana and the Cambridge emeralds she wore so frequently.)

The press never called Sarah, Duchess of York "Princess Fergie," did they? I can't recall. They incorrectly called Diana "Princess Diana," but at least "Princess" was a part of her most-used title.

You've got a point I forgot about Fergie, I've always called her The Duchess of York, never Princess Fergie, guess it just stuck better

 

[Kotroman]

I don't understand why would you call her Princess Kate when she is actually Princess William or The Princess of Wales Would you call Prince Michael's wife Princess Marie-Christine? That would be odd. Using husband's name for married women is a British tradition and monarchy is all about tradition. Making difference between princesses of blood royal and princesses by marriage seems so natural to me that I can't get used to "Princess Marie of Denmark"

 

[QUEENECE29]

I think William & Harry's wives titles Princess and their children titles Prince or Princess

 

[Kotroman]

Actually, Prince Henry's children and all of Prince William's children except for his eldest son will be lords and ladies if they are born during Her Present Majesty's reign. They would all become princes and princesses when the Prince of Wales ascends the throne It's interesting that Henry's children would never become princes and princesses if his father dies before his grandmother.

 

[Warren]

"Princess Michael of Kent" probably sounded strange at first as well.

Just as with "Princess Richard of Gloucester", before she became the Duchess.

 

[Lady Ann]

Diana was never "Princess Charles" only HRH the Princess of Wales as the wife of the Prince of Wales. The style "Princess Husband's Name" is only appropriate if married to a prince of the UK who holds no other peerage or title.

[edit] Titles and styles

• The Honourable Diana Frances Spencer, 1 July 1961 – 9 June 1975
• The Lady Diana Frances Spencer, 9 June 1975 – 29 July 1981
• Her Royal Highness The Princess of Wales, 29 July 1981 – 28 August 1996
• Diana, Princess of Wales, 28 August 1996 – 31 August 1997

Posthumously, as in life, she is most popularly referred to as "Princess Diana", a title she never held.[N 4] Still, she is sometimes referred to (according to the tradition of using maiden names after death) in the media as "Lady Diana Spencer", or simply as "Lady Di". After Tony Blair's famous speech she is also often referred to as the People's Princess.[76]
Diana's full style, while married, was Her Royal Highness The Princess Charles Philip Arthur George, Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Baroness of Renfrew, Lady of the Isles, Princess of Scotland.[77]

 

[ghost_night554]

I don't understand why would you call her Princess Kate when she is actually Princess William or The Princess of Wales Would you call Prince Michael's wife Princess Marie-Christine? That would be odd. Using husband's name for married women is a British tradition and monarchy is all about tradition. Making difference between princesses of blood royal and princesses by marriage seems so natural to me that I can't get used to "Princess Marie of Denmark"

Don't know if that was directly for me but I imagine the press would also call her that considering they usually called Diana, Princess Diana. I remember in a few reports they called her Princess of Wales but not many from what I can recall. I personally don't think I'd be able to call her Princess William that'd be too weird for me sounds odd, if she were to take Princess of Wales then I could see me calling her that.

 

[christinacg]

^So she would be Catherine, Princess of Wales. I'm sure everyone would call her Princess Catharine (or dreadfully, Princess Kate), even if its not correct. But I've always hated the tradition of calling a woman by her husbands title i.e. Princess Michael of Kent. Princess Marie-Christine of Kent would sound so much prettier!