Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[Iluvbertie]

We must remember that the title Prince of Wales isn't automatic though.

I suspect that on marriage, during the present reign William will become The Duke of xxx and Kate The Duchess of xxx and then on Charles' accession they will become The Duke and Duchess of Cornwall, Rothesay etc along with xxx.

If, and when, Charles creates William Prince of Wales (which could be hours, days, weeks, months, years or never) then they will be The Prince and Princess of Wales.

Of course it also maybe that William won't want the title Prince of Wales as that would mean his wife having the title Princess of Wales - adding to the problems of replacing his mother.

The style Diana, Princess of Wales, had nothing to do with being the mother of the two princes but is the standard style of the divorced wife of a peer. As Prince of Wales was Charles' senior title Diana, as his divorced wife, was entitled to use Princess of Wales after her own name, the same way that Sarah uses Duchess of York and any other divorced wife of a peer uses that style.

So, say Jane was married to the Duke of Blighty and they divorced then Jane would have the style Jane, Duchess of Blighty until she remarried (one of the reasons I don't think Diana would ever have remarried - she would have to give up using anything that resembled the use of the word Princess).

It is one of the things that bugs me when people refer to Camilla as Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall as that would be her divorced style not her current style which should be HRH The Duchess of Cornwall, or at least Camilla The Duchess of Cornwall.

 

[muriel]

Of course it also maybe that William won't want the title Prince of Wales as that would mean his wife having the title Princess of Wales - adding to the problems of replacing his mother.

Or perhaps he would not want to be King, as he would not want to replace his father?

 

[Warren]

This thread is not about Diana.
The more recent posts getting further off-topic have been removed.

Warren
British Forums moderator

 

[yvr girl]

Alexandra was The Princess of Wales for about 40 years. She was very popular, a famous beauty; if the title can go to someone else after her, then it can go to someone else after Diana.

 

[Zonk]

Please posts all discussion regarding new titles for William (as well as Catherine Middleton and their family) here http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f34/title-for-william-catherine-and-family-29280-3.html .

Zonk
British Forums Moderator

 

[Draginja1940]

It's an intention, not an order from The Queen. The only way Edward can become Duke of Edinburgh is for Charles (or William if he becomes King because his father had predeceased him) to create it again for him after the titles merge with the Crown.

I do not think that there is any law that forbids Prince Charles to pass his succession to Edward. And I think that Duke of York would had to do the same thing. But maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Draginja1940]

Maybe Queen will make a new dukedom for William. She wanted to make in 1955 Sir Winston Churchill Duke of London, but he declined. I think that Duke William of London sounds nice.
There are possibility of creating a new dukedom that newer existed before. And I think that it is beginning to be little boring with the Duke of Windsor story. Man is dead for 40 years.

 

[Royal_Eagle]

I do not think that there is any law that forbids Prince Charles to pass his succession to Edward. And I think that Duke of York would had to do the same thing. But maybe I'm wrong.

The LP (Letter Patients) creating the Dukedom of Edinburgh stated that the title is to be passed down to the eldest heir, which would be Prince Charles. It can't be transferred to anyone else until the title is extinct or merged with the Crown, which will happens if Prince Charles or any of the male-line children becomes King and the present Duke of Edinburgh pass away.

There's a sticky explaining the whole thing in British Royalty forum.

 

[Royal_Eagle]

Maybe Queen will make a new dukedom for William. She wanted to make in 1955 Sir Winston Churchill Duke of London, but he declined. I think that Duke William of London sounds nice.
There are possibility of creating a new dukedom that newer existed before. And I think that it is beginning to be little boring with the Duke of Windsor story. Man is dead for 40 years.

It is very unlikely the Queen will make PW (or anyone else) the Duke of Windsor, because that title is a sad reminder to the Queen of her uncle's (King Edward VIII) abdication and thus forcing her father to become King (which may have caused his early death) and her to become Queen eventually. It probably won't be recreated for several generations, which is a real shame as it's a very nice title and a nod toward the Royal Family's favorite home.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

HM could surprise us all. There's always a 50-50 chance. I would like to see Windsor revived. Edward VIII did what he felt he had to do and I am torn by the dereliction of duty, but have to say "hooray" for his following his own wishes. In my soul, I know it probably would not be revived for William, but every title currently extant must have some scandal/misbehavior/embarrassment attached.

 

[Royal_Eagle]

HM could surprise us all. There's always a 50-50 chance. I would like to see Windsor revived. Edward VIII did what he felt he had to do and I am torn by the dereliction of duty, but have to say "hooray" for his following his own wishes. In my soul, I know it probably would not be revived for William, but every title currently extant must have some scandal/misbehavior/embarrassment attached.

You're quite right, and the Dukedom of Windsor is just the most recent one with scandal, embarrassment, etc.

Going to be most interesting to see what happens in a bit over 2 weeks from now...

 

[Draginja1940]

HM could surprise us all. There's always a 50-50 chance. I would like to see Windsor revived. Edward VIII did what he felt he had to do and I am torn by the dereliction of duty, but have to say "hooray" for his following his own wishes. In my soul, I know it probably would not be revived for William, but every title currently extant must have some scandal/misbehavior/embarrassment attached.

I think that it would be a perfect title for Prince William, because Edward VIII brought shame on him and there for on the title, William will bring honor on it. And in 20 rears when Charles becomes king everyone will remember this Duke of Windsor.

 

[Lady Ann]

It is very unlikely the Queen will make PW (or anyone else) the Duke of Windsor, because that title is a sad reminder to the Queen of her uncle's (King Edward VIII) abdication and thus forcing her father to become King (which may have caused his early death) and her to become Queen eventually. It probably won't be recreated for several generations, which is a real shame as it's a very nice title and a nod toward the Royal Family's favorite home.

While I agree that it is unlikely that the Duke of Windsor title will be used anytime soon if ever, there is one thing I have never understood about the Queen Mother or even HM blaming his early death on becoming King. her father was said to be aa very heavy smoker, he died from lung cancer. He smoked before he was king and most likely woud have died of the illness even as The Duke of York... my opinion is everything happens for a reason and What a wonderful Queen she is.

 

[Royal_Eagle]

While I agree that it is unlikely that the Duke of Windsor title will be used anytime soon if ever, there is one thing I have never understood about the Queen Mother or even HM blaming his early death on becoming King. her father was said to be aa very heavy smoker, he died from lung cancer. He smoked before he was king and most likely woud have died of the illness even as The Duke of York... my opinion is everything happens for a reason and What a wonderful Queen she is.

You're certainly right--I was quite aware of his heavy smoking habit, which is why I said "may have caused his death". I was just implying that the additional stress of being elevated suddenly to King and having to make more speeches might have not helped things. Of course you're quite right that he may have passed away at that time regardless of his position.

And we might have ended up with the Queen in any case, since from what we've learned, it was quite possible King Edward VIII wouldn't have had children with Wallis Simpson (assuming everyone accepted her back then) and the Throne would have passed on to the Queen directly (with the assumption that the Duke of York passed away before becoming King, if we retain the same timeline).

Anyway, back to the regular topic of titles for Harry and his future family....

 

[christinacg]

Lol, I love how the title of this is Harry and wives, pluralized. What are you hinting at mods?

 

[Anna Catherine]

He could be a count. The Queen can change titles right? Like instead of Duke of Windsor, she can make Harry the Count or Earl of Windsor? I would love for him to be the Duke of York, but seeing as there already is one...oh well. There must be some lovely title for him. His children would Lords and Ladies right under the current Patent letters and current Queen until he becomes HRH The Prince Henry when his father is King, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[branchg]

Viscount is the equivalent rank to Count in the Peerage of the UK. Viscounts are usually Viscount X of Y. So, Harry could be Viscount Windsor of London for example.

I doubt Windsor will be re-created as a Dukedom anytime soon. The associations with the former Edward VIII and the Abdication are not exactly welcomed.

 

[Iluvbertie]

He could be a count. The Queen can change titles right? Like instead of Duke of Windsor, she can make Harry the Count or Earl of Windsor? I would love for him to be the Duke of York, but seeing as there already is one...oh well. There must be some lovely title for him. His children would Lords and Ladies right under the current Patent letters and current Queen until he becomes HRH The Prince Henry when his father is King, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, under the current Letters Patent Harry's children won't be HRH until Charles is King (the same with William's except for his eldest son).

 

[Zonk]

Lol, I love how the title of this is Harry and wives, pluralized. What are you hinting at mods?

Nothing really. The original title was for William, Harry, their wives and children.

Now that William and Kate are engaged they have their own thread. I have corrected the title.

 

[Anna Catherine]

There has to come a point when everyone has to get over past titleholders and association because that's the only way you move on and change perception. It's like people not wanting Kate to wear jewelry and do things or be involved with things Diana was involved in. It's ridiculous! Plus, pointless. You are constantly living in the past and fear almost.

 

[Zonk]

There has to come a point when everyone has to get over past titleholders and association because that's the only way you move on and change perception. It's like people not wanting Kate to wear jewelry and do things or be involved with things Diana was involved in. It's ridiculous! Plus, pointless. You are constantly living in the past and fear almost.

This is very true but sometimes you need a generation or two to get past things. The Queen was very young when the Abdication happened, but she owes her position to the events of 1936.

She was very close to both her parents, and I have yet to see her do anything that would reflect badly on their memory or bring attention to a particular bad time for them. For example, she didn't change the position of the the Duchess of Windsor to an HRH despite her uncle asking her to do so when she became Queen. So while the Duke of Windsor was/is a possiblity.....its not going to happen during her lifetime.

Plus why use a recently created Dukedom with a murky past when there are some fantastic ones that haven't been used for some time?

 

[Anna Catherine]

Can she do something random like Duke of Oxford (just an example)? Are there any limitations on what titles she can give others?

 

[Zonk]

Can she do something random like Duke of Oxford (just an example)? Are there any limitations on what titles she can give others?

I believe the Queen will and can do a lot of things...as she did when she made Edward Earl of Wessex. I just think for the heir's heir she will stay within the confines of history.

 

[christinacg]

Nothing really. The original title was for William, Harry, their wives and children.

Now that William and Kate are engaged they have their own thread. I have corrected the title.

I know I was just joking.

 

[jemagre]

My personal pick is Harry, Duke of Cambridge. I even like Prince Harry of Cambridge. That might be a nice spin on things even if it won't happen. My other pick is Sussex. I just hope that won't make Harry wait around for York.

 

[Iluvbertie]

My personal pick is Harry, Duke of Cambridge. I even like Prince Harry of Cambridge. That might be a nice spin on things even if it won't happen. My other pick is Sussex. I just hope that won't make Harry wait around for York.

They won't make Harry wait around for York.

By the time York will probably be available William will have a couple of children and could easily want it for his own second son.

 

[christinacg]

I like Duke of Cambridge as well. I'm also fond of Duke of Clarence, as the last one was the too-short lived Prince Albert Victor.

 

[Vita]

Well a few years ago, I was all for Harry to get Duke of Cambridge as stated in this thread but now that's not an option. So what should he be given? I like Duke of Abermale or Duke of Clarence.

 

[Mirabel]

Well a few years ago, I was all for Harry to get Duke of Cambridge as stated in this thread but now that's not an option. So what should he be given? I like Duke of Abermale or Duke of Clarence.

That's a lot of C's in the family, though: Cornwall, Cambridge, Clarence???

I think it would be better to go with Duke of Sussex (or what about Duke of Buckingham?)

 

[Vita]

That's a lot of C's in the family, though: Cornwall, Cambridge, Clarence???

I think it would be better to go with Duke of Sussex (or what about Duke of Buckingham?)

:claps: Duke of Buckingham sounds delectable. It's a strapping and dashing title I think and a fairly known one as well. I wish they would create Suffolk. I like that one but correct me if I am wrong, only Charles Brandon ever had that title since his heirs died prematurely correct?