Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[Countessmeout]

Harry will pretty much be assured to get a Scottish title. They use them when in Scotland. But the chances of it being his primary title are minimal. Philip, and Edward likely, will be the exception. They all get a list of titles.

William has Cambridge (England), Strathearn (Scotland) Carrivkfergus (NI)
Charles has Scottish and English subsidiary
Andrew has York (England) Inverness (Scotland) and a northern Irish
As an earl Edward only has two, his subsidiary Severn is welsh
Philip has Edinburgh, Merioneth which is in Wales, and Greenwich for England
Duke of Kent has St. Andrews for Scotland and Downpatrick for Northern Ireland
Duke of Gloucester has ulster for Northern Ireland and culloden fir Scotland

[Pranter]

Does Buckingham hold titles in the other countries as well?


LaRae

[LauraS3514]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

Harry will pretty much be assured to get a Scottish title. They use them when in Scotland. But the chances of it being his primary title are minimal. Philip, and Edward likely, will be the exception. They all get a list of titles.

William has Cambridge (England), Strathearn (Scotland) Carrivkfergus (NI)
Charles has Scottish and English subsidiary
Andrew has York (England) Inverness (Scotland) and a northern Irish
As an earl Edward only has two, his subsidiary Severn is welsh
Philip has Edinburgh, Merioneth which is in Wales, and Greenwich for England
Duke of Kent has St. Andrews for Scotland and Downpatrick for Northern Ireland
Duke of Gloucester has ulster for Northern Ireland and culloden fir Scotland

Andrew's NI title is Baron Killyleagh

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Pranter

Does Buckingham hold titles in the other countries as well?


LaRae

There hasn't been a duke of buckingham since the 1800s nor has it been granted to a royal Prince. But no, in previous creation, the subsidiary titles were local, usually stemming from an elevation of a lower title.

It is with Royal dukes we see this, though possibly with others. Albert victor was duke of Clarence and Avondale, later of which is Scottish, and had an Irish earldom.

Among Victoria kids
Alfred was Duke of Edinburgh, but had ulster for Ireland and Kent for England
Arthur had Connaught and Strathearn which are Irish and Scottish, but subsidiary Sussex for England.
Leopold had Albany which is Scottish. Arklow which is Irish and Clarence English.

Kids of George III had double title, and Irish subsidiary
Frederick was duke of York and Albany, Scottish and English.
William was Clarence for England and St. Andrews for Scotland,
Edward was English Kent and Scottish Strathearn
Ernst had Cumberland English, treviotdale Scotland
Augustus was English Sussex and Scottish Inverness
Adolphus was English Cambridge and Scottish culloden

[Ish]

Could be added that Edward VII's sons were Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence (England) and Avondale (Scotland), Earl of Athlone (Ireland) and George, Duke of York (England), Earl of Inverness (Scotland), Baron Killarney (Ireland).

Like his father, George VI was Duke of York, Earl of Inverness, Baron Killarney.

[Countessmeout]

I included Albert victor, I did miss George though. Andrew broke the mood in duke of York, in having a different irish title. Of course, since Killarney is in the Republic of Ireland, when Andrew was made duke of York, it required a change in Irish title.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Ish

Could be added that Edward VII's sons were Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence (England) and Avondale (Scotland), Earl of Athlone (Ireland) and George, Duke of York (England), Earl of Inverness (Scotland), Baron Killarney (Ireland).

Like his father, George VI was Duke of York, Earl of Inverness, Baron Killarney.

This still happens, the distribution over Realms:

Edward will be Duke of Edinburgh (Scotland), Earl of Wessex (England) and Viscount Severn (Wales)

Andrew is Duke of York (England), Earl of Inverness (Scotland) and Baron Killyleagh (Ireland)

Philip is Duke of Edinburgh (Scotland), Earl of Merioneth (Wales) and Baron Greenwich (England)

William is Duke of Cambridge (England), Earl of Strathearn (Scotland) and Baron Carrickfergus (Ireland).

[Pranter]

Hmmm so they could use Buckingham although not likely and, it was used by close relations of the monarch 'back when' even if they weren't (well some thought they were perhaps) royal princes.


LaRae

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

This still happens, the distribution over Realms:

Edward will be Duke of Edinburgh (Scotland), Earl of Wessex (England) and Viscount Severn (Wales)

Andrew is Duke of York (England), Earl of Inverness (Scotland) and Baron Killyleagh (Ireland)

Philip is Duke of Edinburgh (Scotland), Earl of Merioneth (Wales) and Baron Greenwich (England)

William is Duke of Cambridge (England), Earl of Strathearn (Scotland) and Baron Carrickfergus (Ireland).

Ish was just adding to my list which included all the current ones including Gloucestet and Kent, as well as former ones going back to the sons of George III.

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Pranter

Hmmm so they could use Buckingham although not likely and, it was used by close relations of the monarch 'back when' even if they weren't (well some thought they were perhaps) royal princes.


LaRae

The last time the duke of buckingham was created was in 1822 when the then Marques of buckingham, a politician, was elevated to duke. There was no personal connection to the Royal family. The title went extinct two generations later. The current earl temple of stow is his descendent. Buckingham, was only main in male remainder and died out. But Stowe was created allowing for male descendants of the female line, so has continued to this day.

That was the fourth creation. The third creation was another politician, lord privy to Queen Anne, who was elevated for service. His only remote royal blood connection was he was a descendent of a second cousin of Henry viii.

Second definitely had no Royal blood. It Was created for George villiers who was reportedly a lover, and certainly a favorite courtier if James I.

The first creation is the closest you get. Humphrey was a great grandson of Edward III. His mother was the daughter of Edwards youngest son Thomas. He died in the early days if the war of the roses. His grandson who succeeded him is rumored to have been the one to kill the princes in the tower. He turned traitor on Richard III, leading a rebellion for Henry vii and was beheaded by Richard. The widows duchess was a sister to elizabeth woodpile, and later married jasper Tudor. It was their son, the third duke, who is likely the one everyone pictures when you say duke of buckingham. He is the onebhenry viii executed.

[Duc_et_Pair]

It are pretty fantasy titles anyway. Andrew has no any connection with York, William has not even studied in Cambridge, the relationship between Wessex and Edward is a mystery. This did not prevent them to be bestowed Duke of this and Earl of that.

The Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster at least have a relevance because these are so much more than a fancy name.

[Pranter]

Hmmm I was thinking of the Stafford line (Buckingham)...1400/1500's I thought they had a considerable amount of Plantagenet blood.



LaRae

[Empress Merel]

Duke of Sussex has been thrown around so much, I kinda want them to surprise us

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Pranter

Hmmm I was thinking of the Stafford line (Buckingham)...1400/1500's I thought they had a considerable amount of Plantagenet blood.



LaRae

That would be the first creation, Humphrey (last paragraph). Humphrey Stafford. He was a Plantagenet but on the maternal side. His mother Anne was the daughter of Thomas, youngest son of Edward III. Her baptism was paid for by her uncle John of gaunt. Her mother was descended from Edward I as well. So humphreys mother has a double dose of Plantagenet blood. His father no.

Humphreys wife added some more Plantagenet blood but again on the maternal side. His wife Anne was the granddaughter of John of gaunt by his daughter Joan Beaufort.

the family kept marrying close to the Royal family, but while Plantagenet blood, in the female line. Humphreys son who died before him, was married to Margaret Beaufort, a great granddaughter of John of gaunt. Her son would be the second duke.

That is where Plantagenet unions end. The second duke married the sister of Elizabeth Woodville. And the third duke married the daughter of the duke of Northumberland. By the time the famous, third duke, got executed by Henry viii, their royal blood was pretty thin. Though not thin enough to save him from execution.

But certainly no where close enough anyone would ,mistake them as Royal princes. Their blood was remote to say the least.

[Nyxeus]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

Once Charles succeeds to the throne Harry ceases to be HRH Prince Henry of Wales and automatically becomes HRH The Prince Henry since his father would no longer have the title of Prince of Wales so any children Harry has will not be "of Wales". That designation would fall to any children of HRH The Duke of Cornwall & Cambridge once he is created Prince of Wales by his father King Charles III.

Then what would the designation of The Prince Henry's children be?

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Nyxeus

Then what would the designation of The Prince Henry's children be?

When Harry marries, he will be granted his own peerage. Like george and Charlotte, his kids will take his designation.

Example Harry marries and is named Hrh Duke of Sussex, Earl of Inverness, Baron Arklow

His children would be Hrh Prince Arthur of Sussex and princess Caroline of Sussex

His eldest son would be entitled, like James, to his father's secondary title.

I used the secondary titles of the last Duke of Sussex for example. If Harry was given the title Sussex, his secondary title wpuld be different. Andrew is Earl of Inverness. Commonly they get three titles. Edward only got two. But as he is intended to be Duke of Edinburgh. And that time he will be Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Wessex, viscount Severn.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

[...] Andrew is Earl of Inverness [...]..

Indeed, had Andrew a son and he was (like his young nephew James) not styled as a Prince, the pattern is clear, all royal dukes have an Earl as their heir. That will not be different with Harry, we may safely assume. Just freewheeling: Harry is created Duke of Clarence, Earl of Athlone, Etc.

HRH The Duke of Clarence (Prince Harry)
Heir: Lord [name] Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of Athlone (by law: HRH Prince [name] of Clarence).

HRH The Duke of York (Prince Andrew)
Heir: Lord [name] Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of Inverness (by law: HRH Prince [name] of York)

HRH The Duke of Edinburgh (Prince Edward)
Heir: Lord James Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of Wessex (by law HRH Prince James of Edinburgh)

HRH The Duke of Gloucester (Prince Richard)
Heir: Lord Alexander Windsor, Earl of Ulster

HRH The Duke of Kent (Prince Edward)
Heir: Lord Nicholas Windsor, Earl of St Andrews

[Countessmeout]

Not proper examples.

The sons of the Duke of Gloucester and Kent are not grandsons of the king, as Harry's kids will be. It is the Dukes themselves, before the deaths of their fathers, which are the proper example. As they were grandsons of the king at the time.

Prince edward was born Hrh Prince Edward of Kent, Earl of St Andrews.

Richard wasnt, as he had an older brother. He later would Hrh Prince Richard, Earl of ulster.

At no time, would they have been referred to as Lord Richard or Lord Edward. They are princes and would have been addressed as such.

James is an exception. His father asked he be addressed as a son of an Earl, and not as a Prince. If he had not, he would never have been referred to as Lord James.

If Beatrice had been a son named Albert keys say, he would not have been Lord Albert, Earl of Inverness. He would have been Hrh Pronce Albert of York, Earl of Inverness.

Harry's first son, would be Hrh Prince x of x. Using your example Hrh Prince Arthur of Clarence, Earl of althone. Though he Doyle be entitled to use the Earl title, it eluded be more customary for him to simply be referred to as Hrh Prince Arthur of Clarence. This is how Richard and Edward were commonly addressed before becoming dukes, though having the use if the secondary titled.

As he and his kids will have a more central roll, it very unlikely Harry would ask his children be addressed like Louise and James,

[Ish]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

Prince edward was born Hrh Prince Edward of Kent, Earl of St Andrews.



Richard wasnt, as he had an older brother. He later would Hrh Prince Richard, Earl of ulster.

That's not accurate. You only use a subsidiary title of you have no title of your own; thus neither the Duke of Kent nor then Duke of Gloucester (nor for that matter, the Duke of Gloucester's elder brother, Prince William of Gloucester) ever used their father's subsidiary titles.

Likewise, Prince Charles has never been Earl of Merioneth, Prince William has never been Earl of Carrick or Earl of Chester, and Prince George has never been Earl of Strathearn.

Harry's eldest son will only be "Earl of Subsidiary Title" if he isn't a Prince in his own right (as grandson of a monarch); this will happen only if Harry has children during his grandmother's reign or chooses like his uncle to not have his children styled as the grandchildren of a monarch during his father's reign.

[Ish]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Indeed, had Andrew a son and he was (like his young nephew James) not styled as a Prince, the pattern is clear, all royal dukes have an Earl as their heir. That will not be different with Harry, we may safely assume. Just freewheeling: Harry is created Duke of Clarence, Earl of Athlone, Etc.

HRH The Duke of Clarence (Prince Harry)
Heir: Lord [name] Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of Athlone (by law: HRH Prince [name] of Clarence).

HRH The Duke of York (Prince Andrew)
Heir: Lord [name] Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of Inverness (by law: HRH Prince [name] of York)

HRH The Duke of Edinburgh (Prince Edward)
Heir: Lord James Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of Wessex (by law HRH Prince James of Edinburgh)

HRH The Duke of Gloucester (Prince Richard)
Heir: Lord Alexander Windsor, Earl of Ulster

HRH The Duke of Kent (Prince Edward)
Heir: Lord Nicholas Windsor, Earl of St Andrews

Again, this is also not accurate. The courtesy title "Lord" is only granted to the younger sons of a Duke, not the eldest who uses the subsidiary title.

None of these children is Lord [Name] as each of them have the use of either a subsidiary title or (hypothetically) their own titles.

The sons of the Duke of Gloucester and the Duke of Gloucester are Major Alexander Windsor, Earl of Ulster and George Windsor, Earl of St Andrews (his first name is George, not Nicholas).

The son of the current Earl of Wessex and future Duke of Edinburgh is currently James Mountbatten-Windsor, Viscount Severn (sometimes styled as Lord Severn), who will one day be James Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of Wessex.

If Harry has a son while his grandmother still reigns, his eldest will be [Name] Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of [Wherever] to begin with.