Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[Iluvbertie]

There is an Earl of Warwick with heirs so no Duke there and there is a Marquis of Exeter so again no Duke there. The Exeter title was originally a Dukedom but its last creation was as a Marquis by George III.

Ross wouldn't be a problem just because it is Scottish as Scotland is part of the UK. It has only been created twice - once for the second son of the King (although it was by his brother and not his father who had created him Earl of Ross) and once for the fourth son of the King of Scotland. Neither had any children.

Of course it would be the first creation of the title in the peerage of the UK rather than the peerage of Scotland which may create some issues for the Scots.

 

[JR76]

Portsmouth (created for a royal mistress so pretty unlikely)

Unlikely or not but Harry is a descendant of the Duchess of Portsmouth through his mother.

 

[Somebody]

Clarence, Kendal, Kintyre, Lorne, Ross, Sussex (& Windsor) seem to be extinct Royal Dukedoms available to be recreated.
There is a Viscount Hereford so Hereford is being used currently.

Kintyre and Lorne are also in use. That's why I didn't include them in my post yesterday.

The current holder (since 2001) for Kintyre is Torquhil Campbell, 13th Duke of Arguill, 16th Lord of Kintyre (second page of honor to the Queen from 1981 to 1983). His oldest son, Archie Campbell (third page of honor to the Queen since 2015) goes by the title Marquess of Lorne.

From my perspective the options (all used as royal dukedom before) are:
* Clarence
* Sussex
* Avondale
* Kendal
* Ross

The first two are most likely, however, a surprise would be nice. Personally, I really like 'Duke of Ross' for Harry. It has a nice sound to it and seems to fit his personality (as far as a title fits with soecific personalities). Avondale also has a nice ring to it but not necessarily for Harry.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Kintyre and Lorne are also in use. That's why I didn't include them in my post yesterday.

The current holder (since 2001) for Kintyre is Torquhil Campbell, 13th Duke of Arguill, 16th Lord of Kintyre (second page of honor to the Queen from 1981 to 1983). His oldest son, Archie Campbell (third page of honor to the Queen since 2015) goes by the title Marquess of Lorne.

Ahh, thanks. I missed those in my research.

 

[scriptgirl]

What about Buckingham?

 

[Mirabel]

What about Buckingham?

I like that one too.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

What about Buckingham?

One of them was even a character in "The Three Musketeers." Not sure if that is a positive or negative when considering it as a title for Harry.

 

[Somebody]

What about Buckingham?

Earlier creations weren't royal dukedoms.

 

[scriptgirl]

Well, William's current title wasn't a Dukedom originally, either, I don't think. And I think Buckingham is a great fit for Harry.

 

[Ish]

Well, William's current title wasn't a Dukedom originally, either, I don't think. And I think Buckingham is a great fit for Harry.

Cambridge has formally been created as a Dukedom 5 times, with individuals being styled as Duke of Cambridge but not actually created such two other times.

 

[Curryong]

The original Duke of Cambridge was a younger son of King George III. And the most famous Duke of Buckingham was boyfriend to King James I. He and James occupy large tombs next to each other in Westminster Abbey.

 

[Countessmeout]

Well, William's current title wasn't a Dukedom originally, either, I don't think. And I think Buckingham is a great fit for Harry.

Cambridge certainly was a dukedom in the past. And a royal one.

James II favored the title. Two sons were styled, and two created duke of Cambridge. His eldest son with Anne, Charles, and his eldest son with Mary of Modena, also Charles (third son he used name for) were only styled. The title was created twice for his sons James and Edgar. His only son when he was Duke of York who was not given the title was the second child he named Charles who was Duke of Kendal (his older brother James was alive when he was born).

The third creation was for George II. The title merged when he became king.

The fourth was Adolphus, a son of George III. He was the maternal grandfather of Queen Mary of Tech through his youngest daughter. He is the only one who passed the title on, to his son George. George's marriage wasn't legally recognized and so his children couldn't succeed.

The original Duke of Cambridge was a younger son of King George III. And the most famous Duke of Buckingham was boyfriend to King James I. He and James occupy large tombs next to each other in Westminster Abbey.

Certainly the most well known duke of Cambridge but not the original. That was the fourth creation.

 

[BlytheAnne]

I would love it if they could find a title from one of Meghan's ancestors for Harry and Meghan, should they marry. I was looking through this family tree of hers and it's loaded down with titles and King's and Queen's the further back you go.

https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000049003958965#6000000049003958965

A great deal of Meghan's ancestors were early colonists and thus have been heavily researched by genealogists and historians, so you can trace the lineage of some of them back quite far. On her mother's side through her 3x Great Grandmother Mahalia Hendrick's line, as well as on her father's side.

 

[scriptgirl]

What about the Duke of Ormonde? I know there was an Earl of Ormonde at one point? Or what about the Duke of Pembroke? Does William have a Welsh title already? Does Harry have one?

 

[Somebody]

What about the Duke of Ormonde? I know there was an Earl of Ormonde at one point? Or what about the Duke of Pembroke? Does William have a Welsh title already? Does Harry have one?

Harry is officially 'HRH Prince Henry of Wales', so yes; his only 'title' (although not a peerage) is Welsh . The 3 titles he will most likely get upon marriage will represent 3 out of the 4 territories of which Wales might be one (in that case the probably forgo the Northern Ireland one).

And William was 'HRH Prince William of Wales' until he got married; and will be the future 'HRH The Prince of Wales'. His current titles refer to England (Duke of Cambridge), Scotland (Earl of Strathearn) and Northern-Ireland (Barron Carrickfergus). I am sure they purposefully selected titles from the other territories as he will have the 'prince of Wales' title added to the current list at some point in the future (if things take its normal course).

 

[Countessmeout]

What about the Duke of Ormonde? I know there was an Earl of Ormonde at one point? Or what about the Duke of Pembroke? Does William have a Welsh title already? Does Harry have one?

Harry has no title. You receive them on marriage. Until then they are referred to by their father's title as a designation. Prince Harry of Wales, Prince George of Cambridge etc. No, William does not have a Welsh title. Though they are given multiple titles, Welsh aren't common. Other then Prince of Wales, in recent generation the closest would be Viscount Severn (the river Severn rises in Wales though it flows through England too). William and Andrew have English dukedom, Scottish earl, N Ireland baron. Edward English earl, welsh/English river viscount (eventually Scot duchy).

Ormonde is out. It is a peerage of Ireland. The earl of Ormonde is currently vacant but not extinct, even if Ireland wasn't out.

Pembroke is out. There is currently 18th earl of Pembroke. The family are owners of an incredible country home seen in a number of movies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilton_House

 

[Ish]

Harry has no title. You receive them on marriage. No, William does not have a Welsh title. Though they are given multiple titles, Welsh aren't common. Other then Prince of Wales, in recent generation the closest would be Viscount Severn (the river Severn rises in Wales though it flows through England too). William and Andrew have English dukedom, Scottish earl, N Ireland baron. Edward English earl, welsh/English river viscount (eventually Scot duchy).



Ormonde is out. It is a peerage of Ireland. The earl of Ormonde is currently vacant but not extinct, even if Ireland wasn't out.

Harry has a title - his title is Prince Henry of Wales. Harry does not have a Peerage.

 

[angieuk]

Duke of Cumberland
Duke of Battenberg

Duke of Windsor; why can't it be used.

Princess of Wales/Princess Royal it is what it is, whoever has held the title before with a negative history, should not prohibit it from being used.

Camilla is a Princess of Wales.

I like Henry, Duke of Windsor.

 

[scriptgirl]

Duke of Battenberg-when was that last used?

Windsor will not be used as it has bad associations with Edward, who abdicated and it will also remind people that Wallis was American as is Meghan. No one wants an association between the two women and for Edward to be associated with Harry.

 

[wyevale]

Cumberland will NEVER be used again, since the title is associated with the word 'Butcher' after the Duke that 'cleaned up' the rebellious Scots during and after the 1745 Jacobite rebellion.

Battenberg is forever associated with the cake of the same name, and is also German, so not that title either...

 

[Rudolph]

An easy solution would be to create a title that’s never been used before. No law says it must have been dukedom in the past.

Duke of Hogwarts has a ring to it ?

 

[Countessmeout]

Harry has a title - his title is Prince Henry of Wales. Harry does not have a Peerage.

No, Harry has a Courtesy title, as a son of the prince of Wales. Big difference. Script was asking about Harry's personal titles, he has none. As a Courtesy, Harry as an unmarried child of the prince of Wales is titled as Harry of Wales. When he marries, he loses the courtesy.

Duke of Battenberg-when was that last used?

Windsor will not be used as it has bad associations with Edward, who abdicated and it will also remind people that Wallis was American as is Meghan. No one wants an association between the two women and for Edward to be associated with Harry.

There has never been a Duke of Battenberg.

Prince Louis of Battenberg took his title from his mother who was made Countess of Battenberg (morganatic marriage). This was a German title. The family anglicized the name to Mountbatten. The peerage in the family was Milford Haven. The current Marquis being the son of Philip's cousin Michael, George (named after his grandfather George, who was Philip's Uncle and guardian when he first came to the UK before his death).

angieuk
Duke of Cumberland
Duke of Battenberg

Duke of Windsor; why can't it be used.

Princess of Wales/Princess Royal it is what it is, whoever has held the title before with a negative history, should not prohibit it from being used.

Camilla is a Princess of Wales.

I like Henry, Duke of Windsor.

Cumberland is currently off the table. Cumberland was never forefeited, simply suspended. Though none have, any lineal male heirs of the 3rd duke have the right to claim the title. Until any possible male heirs die out, the title is suspended and cant be used. Caroline of Monaco's husband Ernst is the current heir to the title and his sons after him.

 

[Somebody]

Duke of Battenberg-when was that last used?

Windsor will not be used as it has bad associations with Edward, who abdicated and it will also remind people that Wallis was American as is Meghan. No one wants an association between the two women and for Edward to be associated with Harry.

Duke of Battenberg never existed

The German title was 'introduced' (and later changed into 'Mountbatten') into the family by Prince Louis of Battenberg (born 'count Louis of Battenberg' - grandfather of the duke of Edinburgh) who married princess Victoria of Hesse and Rhine - herself the daughter of princess Alice of the UK; granddaughter of Queen Victoria.

 

[Ish]

Cumberland will NEVER be used again, since the title is associated with the word 'Butcher' after the Duke that 'cleaned up' the rebellious Scots during and after the 1745 Jacobite rebellion.

Battenberg is forever associated with the cake of the same name, and is also German, so not that title either...

Cumberland is not available for use, as it could be claimed by Ernst Augustus of Hanover.

Battenberg is not a British title, it's a German one.

 

[Somebody]

What's the problem with the 5 existing royal dukedoms (that don't have obvious problems with them; Clarence, Sussex, Avondale, Kendal, and Ross) that could be recreated for Harry? Of course, a 'new' title is an option, but I expect the Queen not to go that route when there are still 'existing' titles available.

 

[scriptgirl]

I hate the name Kendal (people name their kids that here in the US and I hate the name). I also hate Avondale ( I grew up near a town with that name. Less said the better).
Sussex I don't like cause I fear people making bad puns at Harry's expense.
Clarence has a bad history to it.
What about duke of Southhampton or Newcastle?

 

[Mirabel]

The trouble with Clarence is that it is another C name; there's already Cornwall and Cambridge, so why have another?


Sussex seems most likely and yes. there will probably be puns.


Hope the RF comes up with something different.

 

[Somebody]

I'm afraid the Queen will not take our personal preferences into account . Tradition seems more important to her - although I assume that Harry's preferences will be taken into account (to a certain extent).

Haven't heard anyone arguing against 'The Duke (and Duchess) of Ross' (other than it being a Scottish title) .

 

[FashionMaven]

Whew! I made it. I read the WHOLLLLEEEEEE thread!

But I still feel as ignorant about titles as I did when I started! And I think I have a headache - this title stuff is SOOO confusing.

Okay - lemme take a crack at what I think I learned:

So, if Harry marries before Charles becomes King:

He and his wife would probably be HRH Harry & (Meghan), Duke and Duchess of X.

If he has kids before Charles becomes King they would not be HRH Prince/ss of X (unless by LP by HMQ). They'd be Lord/Lady of X? With a first born son being Earl of X until he inherits the Dukedom of X?
​

If Harry marries after Charles becomes King:

He and his wife would be HRH Harry & (Meghan), Duke and Duchess of X. His kids would be HRH Prince/ss of X unless Harry requests they not be given HRH Prince/ss courtesy titles?
​

Do I have it right?

Does that mean that right now Harry's Prince title is a courtesy title? Once he marries, he loses the courtesy title if he gets a peerage title (Duke)?

If Harry isn't granted a peerage title upon marriage and Charles isn't King, he would be HRH Prince Henry of Wales and his wife would be (Meghan), Princess Henry of Wales?

And if Charles is King, Harry would be HRH The Prince Henry and his wife (Meghan) would be HRH The Princess Henry?

Welcome any corrections... Please, lol. This is so confusing to me.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Everything sounds right except Prince isn't a courtesy title, he is a prince, and even if Harry gets the title Duke of X, he is still a Prince.