Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[Royal Newbie]

Originally Posted by EllieCat

Only by those 'in the know' about Royal titles; everyone else will call her Princess Chelsey (or whatever!)

What about Princess Michael? People don't seem to have any issue addressing her as that. Why should it be any different with Harry's wife if he isn't granted a dukedom? (Which I think is highly unlikely)

[EllieCat]

People haven't really been doing that with Kate.

True, but Duchess Kate just doesn't sound right, and as we know the media still call her 'Kate Middleton'. But back to Harry's future title, i'm sure he'll get a dukedom.

What about Princess Michael? People don't seem to have any issue addressing her as that.

that's because most people don't know her real name.

For years, before I really got into it, I thought 'Michael' WAS her real name!

[Tsar bobo Iv]

lol me 2 i just thought she spelled it funny

[julliette]

Originally Posted by EllieCat

For years, before I really got into it, I thought 'Michael' WAS her real name!

it happened the same to me

[Roslyn]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

"Duke of Windsor" sounds really good, but then again it has a lot of negative history with King Edward VII and Wallis Simpson and then it was made the BRF's family name (or whatever you call it), so I fear it's unlikely that he'll be given that title.

I like the idea of "Duke of Windsor". I take the view that re-creating that Dukedom and replacing the image of the last DoW with Harry would eventually replace the bad vibe that attached to the man who held it once, and replace the negative history with a good history for the name. It's only a negative history as long as there is no new holder of the title to replace it with a his own identity.

In something of the same vein, I notice the advertisement for replicas of "Kate's engagement ring". While what I see is Diana's engagement ring, it is becoming, and, for many, only ever will be, Kate's ring.

It would take some courage on Harry's part, but he is a soldier and I'm sure he would weather the storm without much difficulty at all. And having a beautiful new Duchess of Windsor would certainly help. The old negative associations are only of historical significance for most young people.

[Pranter]

What other 'open' dukedoms are there besides Windsor?


LaRae

[Madame Royale]

Sussex, Suffolk, Southampton, Surrey to name a few.

I think 'The Prince Henry, Duke of Buckingham' has a nice ring to it!

[Iluvbertie]

He wouldn't officially be The Prince Henry, Duke of Buckingham'. He would be one or the other. Once he is a Duke (or any other title) he won't officially be listed as The Prince Henry.

Officially he would be HRH The Duke of XXXXX. Like William now he would lose his name - William is now officially HRH The Duke of Cambridge.

Charles is the only Prince who sometimes gets to be HRH The Prince Charles but only in Scotland where he is also The Duke of Rothesay.

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by Pranter

What other 'open' dukedoms are there besides Windsor?

Currently, the following Royal Dukedoms are vacant:

- Clarence
- Sussex
- Windsor
- Albemarle
- Ross
- Kendal
- Hereford
- Connaught
- St Andrews
- Strathearn
- Avondale

Of those, the ones with most chances to be created for Harry (in my opinion) are Sussex and Ross.

[Pranter]

Why do you think those two have the most chance?


LaRae

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by Pranter

Why do you think those two have the most chance? LaRae

Because the rest don't.

- Strathearn is one of Prince William's titles (not Ducal - Prince William is Earl of Strathearn).
- Windsor is obviously associated with the Abdication crisis.
- Albemarle was created several times in Jacobite peerage; while it is not recognized in Britain, I image the royals would be keen to avoid any issues.
- Kendal because of unfortunate history; among other things, it's last creation was for the King's mistress.
- Avondale has controversial association; its last holder, Prince Albert Victor, was even rumoured to be Jack the Ripper.
- Clarence has some unfortunate associations as well. Besides, it has only been created in conjecture with another dukedom.
- Connaught is in Ireland, so a Duke of Connaught is highly unlikely to re-appear ever again.
- St Andrews because there already is a St Andrews in the Royal Family - the Earl of St Andrews (the Duke of Kent's son).
- Hereford because it already exists as a Viscountcy in the Peerage of England.

[Pranter]

Cool thanks for the background info!

What are the particulars with Ross and Sussex...does one have a higher chance than the other?


LaRae

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by Pranter

Cool thanks for the background info!

What are the particulars with Ross and Sussex...does one have a higher chance than the other?

You are welcome.

The Duke of Sussex title has only been created once before, in the Peerage of the United Kingdom.
It's first and only holder was Prince Augustus Frederick, George III's sixth son. The Prince led a relatively scandal-free life (his two marriages, which contravened the Royal Marriages Act, notwithstanding) and appeared to have pretty solid relationship with his father and brothers.
Before the marriages of Prince Edward and Prince William, Sussex was considered a strong contender for their respective Duchies; instead, Edward was created Earl of Wessex, and William - Duke of Cambridge.

The Duke of Ross title has been created twice, both in the peerage of Scotland.
The first creation was for the third son of James III of Scotland and Margaret of Denmark. That Duke of Ross led a pretty blameless life, although he might have indirectly contributed to his elder brother's rebellion against their father (the future James IV was reportedly worried about the preference George III showed towards his younger son).
The second creation was for the youngest and posthumous child of James IV, Alexander Stewart; the boy died just months after his birth. However, since the new King, James V, was an infant at the time of their father's death, Alexander was the Heir Presumptive of his brother during his short life.

The reason I think Ross is actually more likely than Sussex is became of the Scottish independence movement.
Granting Prince Harry a title that's so potently Scottish would be a symbolic gesture.

[Pranter]

With the logic used re: Ross, why not Connaught as an option?


LaRae

[Artemisia]

Because Ross is in Scotland (part of the United Kingdom), whereas Connaught is in the Republic of Ireland (no longer part of the Kingdom).

I would feel awkward if Harry were created Duke of Yerevan because Armenia is not connected to the UK in any way.
The same applies to Connaught - part of a different country.

[Osipi]

While reading through this topic on what dukedom may be available, I remembered a fascinating fact that I read here on the forums quite a few years ago. I don't know if it would have anything to do with giving the Dukedom of Ross to Harry or not.

Its always been surmised that Mohamed al Fayed wanted to fit into and socialize in British aristocratic society. In the 70s, he purchased Balnagown Castle which had been the seat of Clan Ross since the time of William Wallace. His interest stemmed from learning that it is a distinct possibility that it was Egyptians that settled Scotland back in ancient times and even had the Ross tartan somewhat modified to show this.

I think though that when Harry is given a dukedom, it'll be primarily an English dukedom with perhaps a Scottish title to follow it as it has traditionally been for members of the BRF.

Alfayed.com - Restoring Balnagown Castle

[EIIR]

I would prefer Sussex, personally. I just feel that, unless Harry intends to foster some deep links with Scotland in future, it'd be best to give him an English dukedom. Harry's vice-patron of the English Rugby Football Union for example, whom Scotland would consider their deadliest enemy. I think Harry has closer connections with England, as opposed to Princess Anne, whose links with Scotland are sincere and appreciated across the border.

[Tsar bobo Iv]

i really think it should be sussex

[MichelleQ2]

I think it will be sussex as well. now that we have that sorted out for him, Harry just needs to find himself a duchess.

[kbk]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

Given that Connaught is not part of the United Kingdom I doubt it will ever be revived as a British peerage. I can see Clarence or Sussex or possibly Ross being used as a future royal dukedom.

You're right about Connuaght, but it's still the name I much prefer ;-). Clarence is also good and has a chance, but I don't think Ross would be renewed, maybe as an earldom, one of the substantive titles, but not the dukedom.

Originally Posted by HRHHermione

People haven't really been doing that with Kate.

Maybe in Britain... In my country Kate is very often referred to as księżniczka, Princess Kate or Katherine, like a princess in her own right, not księżna (as for a princess by marriage or a female holder of a princedom or a dukedom). And when she is called księżna, it's not the księżna of Cambridge but księżna Kate.

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

He wouldn't officially be The Prince Henry, Duke of Buckingham'. He would be one or the other. Once he is a Duke (or any other title) he won't officially be listed as The Prince Henry.

Officially he would be HRH The Duke of XXXXX. Like William now he would lose his name - William is now officially HRH The Duke of Cambridge.

Charles is the only Prince who sometimes gets to be HRH The Prince Charles but only in Scotland where he is also The Duke of Rothesay.

What?? It's about how they are commonly reffered to as in the press or the CC. But they don't lose their names (!) and HRH The Duke of York is His Royal Highness The Prince Andrew, etc., etc., Duke of York, etc., etc., and The Duke of Cambridge is His Royal Highness Prince William, etc., etc., Duke of Cambridge, etc., etc. William is not The Prince William because it's reserved for the children of a Sovereign only.