Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[acdc1]

Originally Posted by branchg

Assuming new letters patent are not issued changing the 1917 Letters Patent of George V (which is very likely once The Queen dies), Harry's children would automatically be HRH Prince/Princess of the UK once Charles became King.

If William succeeds instead, Harry's children would be Lord/Lady Windsor, along with any courtesy styles enjoyed as the children of a Duke, which may, in fact, be the case in the future even if they are legally entitled to be HRH.

So, if Charles succeeds, Harry's kids will be HRH, but if William succeeds instead, they will be Lord/Lady X Windsor? Even if his kids are HRH, their kids will be Lord/Lady X Windsor, and in the female side Harry's great-grands will not be titled?

[Elspeth]

Makes sense for Harry's wife, but William, as heir to the heir, should retain "prince" as his style imho. I think the smallfolk would demand it. After all, they wilfully ignored custom and insisted on calling Diana "Princess Diana". Does anyone think those same folks would be content to call her son's wife a "mere" Duchess?

I don't see why not, but if people want to call William's wife "Princess Whatshername" rather than "The Duchess of Wherever," that's fair enough and nobody's going to stop them. Doesn't mean that it has to be done officially. We don't have a tradition of granting titles to wives of princes in their own right, and the recent spate of royal divorces means that it's quite unlikely to start.

Just think of the subtext here; the two other royal duchesses are Camilla and Sarah. The style "duchess", imho, is "dirtied" as a style for a member of the royal family.

Sarah isn't a royal duchess; she lost her HRH when she divorced. I'm not sure about the official status of the Duchess of Kent, who is reportedly not using her HRH (although I think she still has it). However, I think you're going to run up against significant opposition from people who admire the personal and public lives of TRH the Duchesses of Gloucester and Kent, who have devoted decades of their lives to the service of their country.

The simpler way would be to grant a life peerage to Kate or whoever it's going to be prior to the wedding, and she can be Princess Katherine or whatever. (I like the name Katherine as a royal princess, because I admire Kathryn Swynford. Spoiled by Seton I suppose.) I know this has never been done before but there's no reason why it shouldn't be. Plus I think it would send a good signal to elevate Kate to a title in her own right, rather than stick yet another title on William and have her be a hatstand for his titles.

I think the reason for not doing it would be the situation after a divorce. As it stands now, since the royal style comes with the marriage, it goes away again if the marriage ends. Given the marital history of the Queen's children, divorce is no longer just a theoretical possibility. One of the (IMO thoroughly spurious, but whatever) excuses for not giving the Duchess of Windsor an HRH was the prospect of her flaunting her HRH around after divorcing the Duke (which, of course, George VI, Queen Elizabeth, and their advisors were quite sure would happen). Little more than half a century later, it became clear what would happen to a royal ex-wife - no HRH, and the title as a courtesy until she remarried.

[Henri M.]

Originally Posted by acdc1

So, if Charles succeeds, Harry's kids will be HRH, but if William succeeds instead, they will be Lord/Lady X Windsor? Even if his kids are HRH, their kids will be Lord/Lady X Windsor, and in the female side Harry's great-grands will not be titled?

Roughly the situation is that children and grandchildren of a Sovereign (in the male lineage) plus children born to the Heir Apparent's eldest son are Prince(ss) of the United Kingdom.

This means that children of Prince Harry will indeed be Lord or Lady until his father assumes the Kingship. Then they automatically will become a Prince or Princess.

The children of Prince William will be Prince or Princess right from the start.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Henri M.

Roughly the situation is that children and grandchildren of a Sovereign (in the male lineage) plus children born to the Heir Apparent's eldest son are Prince(ss) of the United Kingdom.

This means that children of Prince Harry will indeed be Lord or Lady until his father assumes the Kingship. Then they automatically will become a Prince or Princess.

The children of Prince William will be Prince or Princess right from the start.

Only William's eldest son is entitled, at present, to the style and title of HRH Prince of the UK. Under the 1917 Letters Patent, the rest of his children would be styled as the children of a Duke unitl Charles became King.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by acdc1

So, if Charles succeeds, Harry's kids will be HRH, but if William succeeds instead, they will be Lord/Lady X Windsor? Even if his kids are HRH, their kids will be Lord/Lady X Windsor, and in the female side Harry's great-grands will not be titled?

Under the 1917 Letters Patent, the children and grandchildren in the male-line of The Sovereign are entitled to be HRH Prince/Princess of the UK. Great-grandchildren in the male-line are styled as the children of a Duke, with the exception of the eldest grandson of The Prince of Wales, who is entitled to be HRH Prince of the UK. Female-line grandchildren of The Sovereign do not enjoy these rights and take their styles after their father.

At present, the children of The Queen all enjoy the title and style of Prince/Princess of the UK, as do her male-line grandchildren (William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, and Louise). At the request of Prince Edward, Louise is styled as the daughter of an Earl ("The Lady Louise Windsor"), but this has no bearing on her rights. Legally, she remains HRH Princess Louise of Wessex unless new Letters Patent are issued or a Royal Warrant is granted allowing her to formally reliniquish it.

If William or Harry marry while The Queen is alive, they are likely to be granted a dukedom the morning of the wedding. If they also have children while she still reigns, these great-grandchildren would all be styled as Lord/Lady Windsor as the children of a royal duke, with William's eldest son enjoying the title and rank of HRH Prince X.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

I'm not sure about the official status of the Duchess of Kent, who is reportedly not using her HRH (although I think she still has it).

Katharine remains HRH as the wife of HRH The Duke of Kent. In 2002, she asked The Queen for permission to assume the style of "Katharine, Duchess of Kent" in order to pursue a private life focused on her music and teaching, rather than carrying out royal duties. The Queen granted her request and she prefers to be addressed as "Katharine Kent".

Officially, she is still listed in the Court Circular as HRH The Duchess of Kent, but essentially is living her own private life separate from The Duke.

[Henri M.]

Originally Posted by branchg

Only William's eldest son is entitled, at present, to the style and title of HRH Prince of the UK. Under the 1917 Letters Patent, the rest of his children would be styled as the children of a Duke unitl Charles became King.

Yes. Thanks for finetuning my answer. You are correct indeed.

[HRH Kimetha]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Sarah isn't a royal duchess; she lost her HRH when she divorced. I'm not sure about the official status of the Duchess of Kent, who is reportedly not using her HRH (although I think she still has it).

One can regard the title HRH as a title in the job market, such as CEO, President, Vice-President. It's like either being promoted or demoted when one marries into royalty. It's also similar in the military when an officer or higher echelon NCO marries. The spouse also is promoted or demoted along with their military spouse and becomes higher in rank amongst the dependent spouses. If either prince should marry while in the military, their wives would surely have a lot of power from their spousal rank and royalty position.

[branchg]

HRH is simply a prefix of royal rank and denotes a style. You can be royal without any style or title, such as Peter Phillips is.

[Olishka]

I apologize if this has been covered here already, as I just hurriedly read through this thread, but what, exactly, would happen if William fell in love with and wished to marry a foreign born princess that wasn't in the direct line of succession for her own royal house, like Princess Alexandra of Luxembourg?

Any answer is much appreciated, as I am a smidgen confused!

[Furienna]

I think that would just be great. That was what all princes did for centuries anyway.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by Olishka

I apologize if this has been covered here already, as I just hurriedly read through this thread, but what, exactly, would happen if William fell in love with and wished to marry a foreign born princess that wasn't in the direct line of succession for her own royal house, like Princess Alexandra of Luxembourg?

Any answer is much appreciated, as I am a smidgen confused!

William would be able to marry her so long as The Queen gave her consent, or he got the consent of parliament after a year's notification. That is the terms of the RMA.

Under the Act of Settlement she can't be a Roman Catholic or he loses his claim to the throne.

These matters are really quite simple - the members of the RF have some extra conditions to meet in order to contract a legal marriage.

[Olishka]

Originally Posted by chrissy57

William would be able to marry her so long as The Queen gave her consent, or he got the consent of parliament after a year's notification. That is the terms of the RMA.

Under the Act of Settlement she can't be a Roman Catholic or he loses his claim to the throne.

These matters are really quite simple - the members of the RF have some extra conditions to meet in order to contract a legal marriage.

So, in marrying William, would the princess sacrifice all current and future titles associated with her own royal house and the possibility of her children inheriting those titles? (In the example of William and Alexandra, could a daughter of theirs be both Princess So-And-So of Wales, and Princess So-And-So of Luxembourg, Nassau, and Parma, while remaining behind her father in the line of succession, even if this is not common practice?)

Sorry if this seems daft, I'm just curious.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by Olishka

So, in marrying William, would the princess sacrifice all current and future titles associated with her own royal house and the possibility of her children inheriting those titles? (In the example of William and Alexandra, could a daughter of theirs be both Princess So-And-So of Wales, and Princess So-And-So of Luxembourg, Nassau, and Parma, while remaining behind her father in the line of succession, even if this is not common practice?)

Sorry if this seems daft, I'm just curious.

I am not sure about the house laws of Luxembourg in this regard.

The closest thing I can think of is the fact that the King of Norway in 60something in line to the British throne through his descent from one of King Edward VII's daughters so it isn't impossible, but each country has their own rules with this regard.

[CasiraghiTrio]

Well, I immediately think of Princess Alexandra of Denmark marrying the Prince of Wales and future King Edward VII. It is a good question whether she maintained her HRH and succession rights in Denmark. I think that she did, but don't know for sure.

[acdc1]

If Harry and Chelsy got married, would she would be HRH Princess Henry of Wales (without dukedom). Would they call her "Princess Chelsy" or would she be like Princess Michael, and be called by her actual correct title, Princess Henry?

[PR Princess]

If Victoria is ineligible to marry William, then why she and her siblings are in the line of succession to the British Throne! (Victoria is in 187.)

Line of succession to the British Throne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[acdc1]

I don't think they're ineligable at all, Madeleine could marry William, since she's not the heir to a throne. Victoria technically could marry him, but either she would have to give up her place in line to the Swedish throne, and Carl Philip would be Crown Prince again, or William would give up his place, and Harry would be second in line. But it would most likely be Victoria, I think. But this is a very slim chance of happening, almost impossible.

[Furienna]

That's an interesting list, Pr Princess. I can't believe how many foreign royals are in line for the Brittish thrown. Most of them are far down the list though.

It would be interesting, if William and Madeleine got married.

[PR Princess]

Originally Posted by Furienna

That's an interesting list, Pr Princess. I can't believe how many foreign royals are in line for the Brittish thrown. Most of them are far down the list though.

It would be interesting, if William and Madeleine got married.

Yes it is, just read the top of that least, which explains the conditions of the Act of Parliament 1701.