The Duke and Duchess of Sussex: Transition & Future

[poppy7]

The conversation turned to a Harry and Meghan with friends today and I was all worried for him. And they just went, he is a man, he did this to make himself and his wife happy if the marriage ends he will make a life for himself in Canada. That after they negated the fact he could ever return to the UK. They made their choice they said and they are not four. You live with your choices. I am being all protective of someone I don't know but then I am about everyone.

I don’t know if he dropped his friends, but most of them live in the UK. Since Harry is now living mostly in Canada’, I think it is safe to say that at least he distanced himself from his friends and doesn’t see them quite as often.

A lot of his very close frinds had themselves moved abroad in recent years as they started to get married.

 

[Denville]

I don’t know if he dropped his friends, but most of them live in the UK. Since Harry is now living mostly in Canada, I think it is safe to say that at least he distanced himself from his friends and doesn’t see them quite as often.

He only moved there at most 2 months ago.. I don't know how it will work out, because I think he may miss the RF when they are a logn way away, but I don't think that Meghan will ever want to go back to Britian

Well he is obviously being quite naval grazing with his mental health concerns...in public. I don't think it is healthy. The conversation turned to a Harry and Meghan with friends today and I was all worried for him. And they just went, he is a man, he did this to make himself and his wife happy if the marriage ends he will make a life for himself in Canada. That after they negated the fact he could ever return to the UK. They made their choice they said and they are not four. You live with your choices. I am being all protective of someone I don't know but then I am about everyone.

Of course he could retrun to the UK.... I just dotn think that Meg would ever come back.. and so, if Harry really wants to, if their marriage starts to unravel under the strain.. I think he will be in England and she will settle in Canada or back in the USA. I feel that if his marriage did end, he might return to royal duties.

 

[poppy7]

Of course he could retrun to the UK.... I just dotn think that Meg would ever come back.. and so, if Harry really wants to, if their marriage starts to unravel under the strain.. I think he will be in England and she will settle in Canada or back in the USA. I feel that if his marriage did end, he might return to royal duties.

Not that I want to bring up a 'what if' but my British friends were saying no we wouldn't have him back. I think people by and large are turning to support his decision...as long as he is gone. My own feeling was of course he can come back but public opinion is a long game battle. One he never got but one his brother and father do.

 

[QueenMathilde]

I think the only way Harry will return to the UK other than short visits is if he gets divorced.

 

[Denville]

Not the I want to bring up a 'what if' but my British frinds were saying no we wouldn't have him back. I think people by and large are turning to support his decision...as long as he is gone. My own feeling was of course he can come back but public opinion is a long game battle. One he never got but one his brother and father do.

I don't thnk that "British friends" can actually stop a member of the RF from returning to England. True that some people might not want him back on royal duties... but I suspect that the RF is thinking that if he comes back, with or withuot Meg, they will try and get him back to at last some royal duties as they are short of staff. But I suspect a single Harry might be easier to welcome bak

 

[poppy7]

I don't thnk that "British friends" can actually stop a member of the RF from returning to England. True that some people might not want him back on royal duties... but I suspect that the RF is thinking that if he comes back, with or withuot Meg, they will try and get him back to at last some royal duties as they are short of staff. But I suspect a single Harry might be easier to welcome bak

Back on public duties is obviously what is meant. It would require the long game...but he hasn't been sho3n to be good at that.

 

[Denville]

Back on public duties is obviously what is meant. It would require the long game...but he hasn't been sho3n to be good at that.

its hard to say. I think that yes some of the public would not like the idea as he had walked out, but if he were back on his own, possibly Charles would try to gradually work him back into the royal duties schedules. After all he is now so short of people after losing Andrew, M and H all at once. And people might feel that Harry on his own would not have left, so that if he was back alone, he would be reasonably reliable. Or he might just come back and live here quietly, visit his son in Canada etc... but not go back on the rota...

We all do that with everyone we don't live with. We just don't call it appointments.

Of course he has to make appointments, she is the queen after all. and his father is POW and a busy man. If you are a working royal, your life's guided by a calendar and you can't usualy just drop in on each other without some knd of notice..

 

[poppy7]

Of course he has to make appointments, she is the queen after all. and his father is POW and a busy man. If you are a working royal, your life's guided by a calendar and you can't usualy just drop in on each other without some knd of notice..

My point was. Does anyone? We just don't call it making appointments but they do because someone else manages their diary.

 

[ACO]

has he dropped his friends?

According to the tabloids. They claimed he dropped Adam only for him to turn up at polo with Meghan. They claiming Charlie is considering the Sussexes as God parents to his child while he has iced out Skippy. They know nothing especially when he was spotted during the summit at a bar with a bunch of those friends he apparently has axed.

 

[Mbruno]

I may be wrong , but I don’t think growing up in Canada or the US is in Archie’s best interest. I believe he would be better off growing up as a discreet member of the Queen’s extended family not unlike James and Louise for example. He could even give up his HRH when Charles is king, based on precedent if the title is a problem for him or his parents.

So I don’t quite agree that Harry had his family’s best interest in mind when he decided to move overseas. In fact, I suspect living in Canada is not even in Harry’s own best interest. It appears to me that the decision to move to North America was almost entirely to suit Megan’s needs rather than anybody else’s.

 

[Denville]

I may be wrong , but I don’t think growing up in Canada or the US is in Archie’s best interest. I believe he would be better off growing up as a discreet member of the Queen’s extended family not unlike James and Louise for example. He could even give up his HRH when Charles is king, based on precedent if the title is a problem for him or his parente

So I don’t quite agree that Harry had his family’s best interest in mind when he decided to move overseas. In fact, I suspect living in Canada is not even in Harry’s own best interest. It appears to me that the decision to move to North America was almost entirely to suit Megan’s needs rather than anybody else’s.

Harry too. If he is the one who is going to help earn them an income, I think it is something that they would be more likely to do in the USA than anywhere else. So they have to live there.. and if they live in Canada they are near the US and close enough to work there.

 

[poppy7]

I may be wrong , but I don’t think growing up in Canada or the US is in Archie’s best interest. I believe he would be better off growing up as a discreet member of the Queen’s extended family not unlike James and Louise for example. He could even give up his HRH when Charles is king, based on precedent if the title is a problem for him or his parente

So I don’t quite agree that Harry had his family’s best interest in mind when he decided to move overseas. In fact, I suspect living in Canada is not even in Harry’s own best interest. It appears to me that the decision to move to North America was almost entirely to suit Megan’s needs rather than anybody else’s.

Well it is certainly easier to grow up as a minor one of many than as the only one. Archie wouldn't even be that much of a deal in the UK. I mean there is a lot of extended royals running about and really only William and Harry were big deals in the same way only the Cambridge children will be really. Whereas in North America he would be the only one...which is perspective skewing. The UK would look,positively Romonov Russia for all the royals hanging about in comparison.

 

[ACO]

I may be wrong , but I don’t think growing up in Canada or the US is in Archie’s best interest. I believe he would be better off growing up as a discreet member of the Queen’s extended family not unlike James and Louise for example. He could even give up his HRH when Charles is king, based on precedent if the title is a problem for him or his parents.

So I don’t quite agree that Harry had his family’s best interest in mind when he decided to move overseas. In fact, I suspect living in Canada is not even in Harry’s own best interest. It appears to me that the decision to move to North America was almost entirely to suit Megan’s needs rather than anybody else’s.

Why not? What is wrong with him and his family being in Canada? Why would Archie being raised there not be in his best interest? Why should be be in the UK? What benefits would it bring? His parents aren't working royals. That is the case for James and Louise. Not like they have much choice there.

 

[poppy7]

Why not? What is wrong with him and his family being in Canada? Why would Archie being raised there not be in his best interest? Why should be be in the UK? What benefits would it bring? His parents aren't working royals. That is the case for James and Louise. Not like they have much choice there.

I think it is just a comment about there being more attention on him there than in the UK where are are loads of royals. I could be wrong.

 

[acdc1]

has he dropped his friends?

It's all just tabloid speculation, but several "sources" who claim to have once been close to Harry (take that as you will) have indicated that he distanced himself from his old friends once he got together with Meghan.

As our lives change and we move through different life stages, it's natural to grow away from people we were once close to. We have all had it happen at some point. Harry seems to have certainly calmed down from the "party boy" image that he was known for throughout his twenties into a solid family man, and perhaps his changing friendships have reflected that transformation (and I'm sure some of his "party boy" friends have calmed down as they're getting into the mid- and late-thirties, too).

However, something that I DO think is that Meghan didn't really fit in with Harry's circle (or, rather, former circle). I know she attended Ascot in 2018 and watched him play polo in 2019, but it doesn't seem like she'd really be into the whole horse racing, grouse shooting, polo watching traditional upper crust British scene that many of Harry's pals are in. I don't think that she has much in common at all with them, or with William and Kate, and it seems like her primary circle of friends (yogis, movie stars, lifestyle gurus, etc.) are in LA and Canada. I wonder if she has any close friends at all in the UK. It's been my belief from the get-go that one of the primary driving factors in the move to North America and stepping away from the royal life was simply that Meghan didn't like living in the UK, didn't have close friends, felt like she didn't fit in, and wanted to go back to where she felt most comfortable and at home. Perhaps Harry sensed that his wife wasn't happy around his group of friends and has decided to step out of those circles and into those where she feels happier.

 

[ACO]

Meghan has two very close friends in the UK -- Lucy and Lindsay. Misha also divides her time.

 

[acdc1]

Meghan has two very close friends in the UK -- Lucy and Lindsay. Misha also divides her time.

That's two, maybe three friends. She seems like a very friendly person who enjoys being around those close to her. I'm an introverted person and even I would be very lonely with only two of my close friends plus a husband as my support system with all the rest of my close friends and family thousands of miles. Yes, I realize that people do it all the time (and I myself have done it), but it is very difficult.

 

[ACO]

That's two, maybe three friends. She seems like a very friendly person who enjoys being around those close to her. I'm an introverted person and even I would be very lonely with only two of my close friends plus a husband as my support system with all the rest of my close friends and family thousands of miles. Yes, I realize that people do it all the time (and I myself have done it), but it is very difficult.

I am sure it is not easy but she wasn't without any support. And even now where she is in Canada she isn't close to her friends there who are mainly in Toronto and LA. I have no doubt it was a major adjustment and is not one for Harry but I would guess it was more to it than lack of friends nearby. Her bestfriends have always been all over -- Genevieve in Chicago, Lindsey in NY/London, Heather in Texas, Benita, Abigail and Janina in LA, Jessica in Toronto.

 

[Betsypaige]

I think it is just a comment about there being more attention on him there than in the UK where are are loads of royals. I could be wrong.

I also think it’s sad that he won’t grow up with his grandfather, great-grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins...Yes, of course people do it all the time, but Skype is not the same thing as actually being there physically

 

[ACO]

I also think it’s sad that he won’t grow up with his grandfather, great-grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins...Yes, of course people do it all the time, but Skype is not the same thing as actually being there physically

He was growing up away from his maternal grandmother as well. And if the rift was as bad as claimed then he wasn't seeing much of them anyways. Hard to really tell what Archie is missing out on as we don't know what the state of any of these relationships were. And if he their bond is as important as some believe then they will work it out. Families live apart.

 

[poppy7]

I also think it’s sad that he won’t grow up with his grandfather, great-grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins...Yes, of course people do it all the time, but Skype is not the same thing as actually being there physically

I think, in my view, that growing up away from family is a sad thing. Some people like it though. But one of the most striking things to me is that first generation immigrants fail to see that the country and family has changed without them and they have a stunted view and that the second generation consider themselves to be full members of a family where the generation of their age consider them to be just sporadic visitors to their life. A bit prodigal son like. And the third generation go looking for their roots. And barely know anything.

Archie may grow up considering the Cambridges as a major part of his life and family. They will probably view him slightly more remotely and Louis won't really know Harry at all. Or Archie, William I don't think. Plus there are step cousins too in this, although older. I hope Archie at least has a good relationship with his grandfather and grandmother. But then how often will he be brought to England and Charles is very busy. He may never know Phillip or even the Queen. It all seems so lonely to me. But then that is my point of view.

 

[Betsypaige]

He was growing up away from his maternal grandmother as well. And if the rift was as bad as claimed then he wasn't seeing much of them anyways. Hard to really tell what Archie is missing out on as we don't know what the state of any of these relationships were. And if he their bond is as important as some believe then they will work it out. Families live apart.

Of course they live apart, but I still find it kind of sad. Well, hopefully when Archie returns, he'll be able to spend some time with family that from now on he won't see that often.

*Good point about Doria....

** Well I imagine that most people would agree that parent/child and sibling bonds are important. I also understand that family relationships are complicated......I really don't want to think negatively about Harry and his relationships with his family, so I'll just say that I'm looking forward to his return.

I think, in my view, that growing up away from family is a sad thing. Some people like it though. But one of the most striking things to me is that first generation immigrants fail to see that the country and family has changed without them and they have a stunted view and that the second generation consider themselves to be full members of a family where the generation of their age consider them to be just sporadic visitors to their life. A bit prodigal son like. And the third generation go looking for their roots. And barely know anything.

Archie may grow up considering the Cambridges as a major part of his life and family. They will probably view him slightly more remotely and Louis won't really know Harry at all. Or Archie, William I don't think. Plus there are step cousins too in this, although older. I hope Archie at least has a good relationship with his grandfather and grandmother. But then how often will he be brought to England and Charles is very busy. He may never know Phillip or even the Queen. It all seems so lonely to me. But then that is my point of view.

I realize that many people don't grow up knowing their cousins that well, but it's not the usual thing in the BRF. Archie doesn't have a choice - he goes where his parents go. When he gets older, he may wish he'd have spent time with his great-grandparents, his grandfather, his uncle, aunts, cousins.....and in some cases, it will be too late to rectify. This is getting morbid, lol. I just hope that baby Archie will love visiting with his family....

 

[BaiSoSo]

That's not so very unusual..I have to make an appointment to see my Parents - they're BUSY people, and their Social life is busier than mine !

Making an appointment for Harry means going through courtiers to get on his grandmother's calendar and if they want they can stall you. That is different than calling up grandma to see when would be a good time to visit or go to dinner.

 

[Denville]

Making an appointment for Harry means going through courtiers to get on his grandmother's calendar and if they want they can stall you. That is different than calling up grandma to see when would be a good time to visit or go to dinner.

She's the queen. That's the way it is. If she were a very high powered rich businesswoman, it would likely be much the same.. that her grandchildren would have to wait for secretaries to get onto her and fit in the appointmetn etc. If he really wanted to see his grandma, it may not be just as easy as walking inot the house but it would be do able...

Of course they live apart, but I still find it kind of sad. Well, hopefully when Archie returns, he'll be able to spend some time with family that from now on he won't see that often.

*Good point about Doria....

** Well I imagine that most people would agree that parent/child and sibling bonds are important. I also understand that family relationships are complicated......I really don't want to think negatively about Harry and his relationships with his family, so I'll just say that I'm looking forward to his return.

I expect that he and Archie and Meg wil visit, but I don't see any reason to imaigne that they will stay long.. and possibly because of that, they wont be that close to Charles or the queen or the Cambridge kids. Anyway I am indifferent. He wanted to live abroad - or possibly he does ntot but is doing it for Meg's sake..but its his choice..

 

[soapstar]

A large number of off-topic posts have been deleted. Including discussions about Harry and Meghan’s relationship with the media, Cambridge/Sussex comparisons, posts about Autumn and Peter’s marriage and some back and forth bickering between members.

When this thread was opened, we asked that members refrain from discussing certain topics. To name a few:

• The media, journalists, journalism, paparazzi, photographer, reporters etc
• Relationship with other members of the Royal Family
• Any other subject not DIRECTLY related to the Sussex's Transition and Future.

In order to ensure that the discussions remain on-topic and civil, we need members follow the rules of the thread. So please take a moment to re-read the mod announcement. You can find it here.

The discussion about Caroline Flack has been moved to the Royals' Ex-Partners thread.

If you wish to discuss relationships between members of the BRF, please do so here.

Let’s try to keep the focus on Harry and Meghan’s transition plans and not rehash the past. Thanks.

 

[_Heather_]

Technically there is a way around it: the oath of allegiance is spoken during the naturalization ceremony, to get there you have to first live in the US a few years as a Green Card holder and than apply for citizenship. As the spouse of a US citizen Harry is entitled to a Green Card, but not a citizenship- not until , again, he has lived in the us for a few years (I remember five years, but things may have changed since trump took office)

He can easily bypass the oath by never applying for a citizenship and simply living in the US on a GC- this will mean some responsibilities and benefits would not apply to him, but he will be able to freely work, and he will not have to take the oath at any point, thus creating a contradiction in his allegiance to the crown.

The downside? Once the marriage ends he is likely to lose his GC and will have to return to the UK, unless he proves a valid reason to stay- and even than it’s not a given.
It could be that is why they are in Canada, waiting for Harry to be approved for a GC.


I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

I suppose that's true. I hadn't necessarily considered the idea that he could stay indefinitely on a green card to avoid the oath. It's an interesting thought and I'm really not well acquainted with immigration laws well enough to have much opinion on it as far as legality. Also an interesting point that he could be forced to return to the UK in the event of a split.

 

[Fijiro]

I suppose that's true. I hadn't necessarily considered the idea that he could stay indefinitely on a green card to avoid the oath. It's an interesting thought and I'm really not well acquainted with immigration laws well enough to have much opinion on it as far as legality. Also an interesting point that he could be forced to return to the UK in the event of a split.

You do not loose your GC or Citizenship even if marriage ends.

 

[soapstar]

Comments speculating on how William feels about Archie have been deleted. Let’s move on from discussing what type of relationship Archie will have with the rest of the royal family.

 

[tausi]

I appreciate the mod's work. It is quite difficult to have a constructive discussion on the Sussex. I imagine it is tough job for the moderators.

No one knows how Prince William feels about his nephew. People are projecting their own fanatics feelings to the family dynamics. For all we know he loves him just as much as his other nephews (Arthur Matthews) & cousin's children (Zara & Peter's kids).

 

[evolvingdoors]

You do not loose your GC or Citizenship even if marriage ends.

Do not confuse GC with citizenship.
A GC is the pathway to citizenship, but you can absolutely lose it, quite easily even.

I know a couple of people who had to leave the US because their marriages ended, both were married to their ex’s for well over five years, so the marriages were legit. They never applied for citizenship they only had a GC, so when the marriage ended their marriage based GC ended too.
Essentially they got deported, just because the marriage ended. It’s shitty, but it happens.

Similar to how Meghan is going to be losing her british “GC”. Or, if she and Harry were to divorce while she was still in the U.K. but before she received her British citizenship she could had been eligible for deportation had her request to stay after the divorce had been rejected.