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  #141  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Anything LESS 'Ambassadorial' is hard to conceive -unwilling to remain in the Country they vowed, just Months ago 'to serve'.. now off to live elsewhere [we know not where].

If their 'diplomacy' is of the standard indicated by the 'well thought out' manner of their 'bombshell' announcement, [and of their departure from the UK], it scarcely bodes well...

Why any organisation would employ so flighty a couple in an Ambassadorial role 'beats me'..
I think that what is meant is that the working Royals are ambassadors for their country?
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  #142  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
Harry is swearing his allegiance as a UK citizen and 6th in line to the throne. He's not the next direct heir. The only issue is the fact he's a Prince. That's it.

If the UK believed this to be an issue, where are there laws restricting member of the Royal Family from holding dual citizenship?
Not all countries require their new citizens to denounce their allegiance to a foreign prince - that's an American thing. I don't see why the UK would need rules just because the Americans require such strict declaration of allegiance. Harry could without any concerns become a Dutch citizen if he meets the criteria. As he would only have to declare the following:
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I swear (declare) that I will respect the constitutional order of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, its freedoms and rights, and I swear (promise) that I will faithfully fulfil my duties as a Dutch citizen.

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As I understand it, British citizens - I'm not sure of the rules for US citizens? - may stay in Canada for 6 months without any sort of residency visa. So they are going to have to make some longer term decisions before too much longer. None of this seems to have been thought out very well, but that can't go on indefinitely.
Yes, however, that would come with some impediments such as not being allowed to work (and probably not being allowed to open a bank account or sign certain official documents? It could be that Meghan kept her bank account).
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  #143  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:26 AM
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Yes, however, that would come with some impediments such as not being allowed to work (and probably not being allowed to open a bank account or sign certain official documents? It could be that Meghan kept her bank account).
Oh Im sure they can sort out such mundane details. But as there are rules about how long non Canadians can stay, they will have to get permission if they are going to live there most of the time.

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Not all countries require their new citizens to denounce their allegiance to a foreign prince - that's an American thing. I don't see why the UK would need rules just because the Americans require such strict declaration of allegiance. Harry could without any concerns become a Dutch citizen if he meets the criteria. As he would only have to declare the following:

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And it is an issue that he is a Prince. As a peer and as the son of the King, it would be expected that he would swear Allegiance to Charles, and he can hardly wish to avoid doing that...
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  #144  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
Apart from the original plan. What is the difference? Have to make their own money. Which is fine if the trips to give speeches is merely networking, and we still dont actually know how they are doing it. Their current independent wealth will not sustain their lifestyle. They are supporting charities, or wanted by them, because of link to BRF. The future is coming and that is the way it will be. There will be no super foundation. There won't be anything, they will have a few charities and others will fall away as they release there is nothing in it for them. I don't even get being a super foundation like the Clooneys. What Foundation? If they have one I don't know about it. What I do know is that they both have platforms and she is an extremely ssuccessful uccessful human rights lawyer and marriage to him gave her increased media. He has fame and sounds rather intelligent when he speaks. I don't mean to be hard on Meghan and Harry but they don't even have that. She gives good air time but her speeches are basically air with little to back it up. I mean the bananas. It is vacuous. And he well speaking is not his thing. Charming the pants of a scorpion is his thing. Good for smooshing and networking but not the practicalities.
I disagree with much of this because obviously this is all speculation and none of us have a crystal ball, but:

1. I think they will continue to do philanthropy and will be successful even without their ties to the BRF because of their popularity. They can take away their titles, but he will still be seen as Prince Harry to many and Meghan is ambitious and intelligent.
2. They they said themselves said they are setting up a foundation and until they themselves release a statement saying otherwise then I think the networking they’re doing right now is actually necessary. It won’t be done over night and they’re still transitioning, so give it a bit of time.
3. I’m not sure what you mean by the speculation that charities will fall off as they “realize there is nothing in it for them”. Do you mean that Meghan and Harry will be unsuccessful in their charity endeavors (I disagree)? That they won’t have the popularity to sustain the charities (I disagree)? That the charities won’t raise any money (I disagree)? They have had successful projects in the past- the Invictus Games, the Grenfell cookbook, and that is a good indication for the future.

I feel that some people want them to fail (I am not saying you personally) which is a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If Harry and Meghan are successful with their causes, then those causes benefit which is a good thing. I personally want their foundation, in whatever form it winds up taking, to be successful because any humanitarian work that can benefit others is a positive endeavor.
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  #145  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Juno View Post
I disagree with much of this because obviously this is all speculation and none of us have a crystal ball, but:

1. I think they will continue to do philanthropy and will be successful even without their ties to the BRF because of their popularity. They can take away their titles, but he will still be seen as Prince Harry to many and Meghan is ambitious and intelligent.
2. They they said themselves said they are setting up a foundation and until they themselves release a statement saying otherwise then I think the networking their doing right now is actually necessary. It won’t be done over night and they’re still transitioning, so give it a bit of time.
3. I’m not sure what you mean by the speculation that charities will fall off as they “realize there is nothing in it for them”. Do you mean that Meghan and Harry will be unsuccessful in their charity endeavors (I disagree)? That they won’t have the popularity to sustain the charities (I disagree)? That the charities won’t raise any money (I disagree)? They have had successful projects in the past- the Invictus Games, the Grenfell cookbook, and that is a good indication for the future.

I feel that some people want them to fail (I am not saying you personally) which is a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If Harry and Meghan are successful with their causes, then those causes benefit which is a good thing. I personally want their foundation, in whatever form it winds up taking, to be successful because any humanitarian work that can benefit others is a positive endeavor.
their titles have not been "taken away"... but they have been forbidden to use them in their money making activities. Harry IS still Prince Harry in private life... but but that may not mean that he will be able to earn a lot of money in his money making.. we don't know how successful he will be at the new task of earning a living.
as for the charities Im sure their intentions are good. Yet again it may be that they don't make enough money overall to produce an income for the chariites they wish to support. The work Harry has done, and Meghan has been done when they were working as royals, now they are in a different positon and I cant help wondering if things will go as they plan/hope. I don't think that they planned very well, over all. Harry's idea to be part time royal and part time businessman wasn't going to fly with the queen and I think he should have realised that.
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  #146  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
And it is an issue that he is a Prince. As a peer and as the son of the King, it would be expected that he would swear Allegiance to Charles, and he can hardly wish to avoid doing that...
Yes, that is what I have been arguing all the time. Not sure what makes you think otherwise. Or are you trying to argue that it would be a problem for all peers of the realm to have any kind of dual citizenship?

My take is that especially the US-naturalization oath is problematic; not necessarily the dual citizenship.
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  #147  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Yes, that is what I have been arguing all the time. Not sure what makes you think otherwise. Or are you trying to argue that it would be a problem for all peers of the realm to have any kind of dual citizenship?

My take is that especially the US-naturalization oath is problematic; not necessarily the dual citizenship.
No Im agreeing with you. I think it would put H in an awkward position. And there's no need for it anyway. it seems like they want to live in Canada not the US.
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  #148  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:54 AM
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No Im agreeing with you. I think it would put H in an awkward position. And there's no need for it anyway. it seems like they want to live in Canada not the US.
As others pointed out, this discussion is indeed premature - but it seems many of us would agree that it would be unwise of Harry to pursue US-citizenship if that would ever be on the table.

However, regarding the 'wanting to live in Canada', they still need to solve the visa issue, which wouldn't be as much of an issue in the States.
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  #149  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
No idea what you mean by its hardly some sort of real monarchy? It is a real monarchy....

In the sense that their role is very limited to being basically ambassadors for the Country.


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  #150  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
As others pointed out, this discussion is indeed premature - but it seems many of us would agree that it would be unwise of Harry to pursue US-citizenship if that would ever be on the table.

However, regarding the 'wanting to live in Canada', they still need to solve the visa issue, which wouldn't be as much of an issue in the States.
Everything is kind of premature in that sense, as they havent' been seen much since their return to Canada.. We don't know exactly what they are going to do. But it seems like they'll be living over in N America, so that is an issue they will have to sort out soon.

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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
In the sense that their role is very limited to being basically ambassadors for the Country.


LaRae
Whose role? Do you mean Harry and Meghan? Or the working royals like the queen, Charles Camilla, etc? It is a constitutional monarchy, that is what the members of a Royal family do, in a consituttional monarchy. They don't have much power, and their role is representing their country to the world. That is exacltly what they are being asked to do.
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  #151  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Anything LESS 'Ambassadorial' is hard to conceive -unwilling to remain in the Country they vowed, just Months ago 'to serve'.. now off to live elsewhere [we know not where].

If their 'diplomacy' is of the standard indicated by the 'well thought out' manner of their 'bombshell' announcement, [and of their precipitate departure from the UK], it scarcely bodes well...

Why any organisation would employ so flighty a couple in an Ambassadorial role 'beats me'..


Some of the way they handled things was not well done at all. That is fair to criticize.


Many ppl do not view them as flighty because they can empathize and understand the need to remove one's self from a very negative situation.

If you had a job that you ended up being very unhappy with, things not turning out as you expected I believe you, like many folks, would find a new job.



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  #152  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Juno View Post
I disagree with much of this because obviously this is all speculation and none of us have a crystal ball, but:

1. I think they will continue to do philanthropy and will be successful even without their ties to the BRF because of their popularity. They can take away their titles, but he will still be seen as Prince Harry to many and Meghan is ambitious and intelligent.
2. They they said themselves said they are setting up a foundation and until they themselves release a statement saying otherwise then I think the networking they’re doing right now is actually necessary. It won’t be done over night and they’re still transitioning, so give it a bit of time.
3. I’m not sure what you mean by the speculation that charities will fall off as they “realize there is nothing in it for them”. Do you mean that Meghan and Harry will be unsuccessful in their charity endeavors (I disagree)? That they won’t have the popularity to sustain the charities (I disagree)? That the charities won’t raise any money (I disagree)? They have had successful projects in the past- the Invictus Games, the Grenfell cookbook, and that is a good indication for the future.

I feel that some people want them to fail (I am not saying you personally) which is a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If Harry and Meghan are successful with their causes, then those causes benefit which is a good thing. I personally want their foundation, in whatever form it winds up taking, to be successful because any humanitarian work that can benefit others is a positive endeavor.
The royals get publicity for charities which enables them to earn money. They don't give money. I actually do not think they will be able to sustain publicity form their charities. I think the world will move on and they will garner less and less publicity. Grendell Tower was a you try wide disaster and that book would have sold. And the Invictus games is the best thing Harry has done or is indeed likely to do. I think that post the next games that will begin to garner less publicity too.

If the are going to become a money giving foundation then that will be a voting hard work networking for them and that will take up all their time. But that too will become less profitable.

I don't see them finding success in a model like the one the royal family use. They could set up their own charities and run them. As their York cousins have done and they may find success with that. I think scale needs to be considered.

The biggest foundation outside the royals in the UK are either massivively charitable funds which sponsor this or that, Tony Blair's foundation and of course JK Rowling is the biggest private donor and runs her own foundation in Romania.

Harry and Meghan do not have these resources. So it remains how they are going to do it and given the circumstances of being effectively made redundant after looking for part time hours, I would start small. And get rid of that over the top website too.
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  #153  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Whose role? Do you mean Harry and Meghan? Or the working royals like the queen, Charles Camilla, etc? It is a constitutional monarchy, that is what the members of a Royal family do, in a consituttional monarchy. They don't have much power, and their role is representing their country to the world. That is exacltly what they are being asked to do.

Yes Harry/Meghan and in fact the whole BRF. I understand it's a Constitutional Monarchy and that is the majority of what they do.

The rigid expectations (as I alluded to in the other post...unnecessary for this day/age) have not worked out so well for a number of them.
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  #154  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Yes Harry/Meghan and in fact the whole BRF. I understand it's a Constitutional Monarchy and that is the majority of what they do.

The rigid expectations (as I alluded to in the other post...unnecessary for this day/age) have not worked out so well for a number of them.
Not Harry and Meghan any more then since they are no longer member of the working family. THey do not represent the queen or country any more.
As for the rigid expectations Im not sure what you mean. Harry and Meghan took on the job, as a married couple. When they found themselves unhappy with it... they wanted to get out. THey didn't try to give it a few years to see if thing would improve, which would have at least given Charles and the queen time to try and make a plan for what to do if they DID insist on going.
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  #155  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Not Harry and Meghan any more then since they are no longer member of the working family. THey do not represent the queen or country any more.
As for the rigid expectations Im not sure what you mean. Harry and Meghan took on the job, as a married couple. When they found themselves unhappy with it... they wanted to get out. THey didn't try to give it a few years to see if thing would improve, which would have at least given Charles and the queen time to try and make a plan for what to do if they DID insist on going.
My comments earlier were in reply to your post (#157) when you were talking about where would 'we' be if they all decided to leave like The Sussexes.

There is context to what I was talking about, if you go back and read what you said..then what I said.

Past that, your new comment.... I'm not sure how many years they would need to give it...it wasn't working. They (per the Queen's statement) had been talking about it with at least herself for months. I presume Charles/William knew as well.



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  #156  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:52 AM
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If you had a job that you ended up being very unhappy with, things not turning out as you expected I believe you, like many folks, would find a new job.
Not necessarily. It's also about responsibility; not everyone will run...

Being a member of the royal family comes with a lot of privileges as well as responsibility. So, if you've just committed for life (which Meghan did upon marrying) walking out only 1 1/2 years later because it is not what you expected (something that you should figure out before committing), doesn't show a lot of sense of responsibility but shows more a hedonistic worldview that life is all about me getting satisfaction (or thriving as she herself would say - which in her case clearly includes the satisfaction of 'doing good'/'being a force for change') - a very different point of view from the queen's who stresses duty - within which (probably more so as a member of the BRF than as the monarch) there is a lot of room to make a difference.

Harry was raised with a clear sense of what was expected from him - and while he clearly struggled at times, he also stressed how it brought him many opportunities. Leaving after relatively recently becoming a full-time royal, also shows that 'duty' and 'responsibility' are not as important to him either.

So, no, I don't think all would run. It depends on your values and how you see your purpose in life. It seems that currently their purpose in life is more about 'them doing good on their own terms' than about 'them contributing to the greater good as part of (their duty within) the monarchy'.
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  #157  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:57 AM
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The royals get publicity for charities which enables them to earn money. They don't give money. I actually do not think they will be able to sustain publicity form their charities. I think the world will move on and they will garner less and less publicity. Grendell Tower was a you try wide disaster and that book would have sold. And the Invictus games is the best thing Harry has done or is indeed likely to do. I think that post the next games that will begin to garner less publicity too.

If the are going to become a money giving foundation then that will be a voting hard work networking for them and that will take up all their time. But that too will become less profitable.

I don't see them finding success in a model like the one the royal family use. They could set up their own charities and run them. As their York cousins have done and they may find success with that. I think scale needs to be considered.

The biggest foundation outside the royals in the UK are either massivively charitable funds which sponsor this or that, Tony Blair's foundation and of course JK Rowling is the biggest private donor and runs her own foundation in Romania.

Harry and Meghan do not have these resources. So it remains how they are going to do it and given the circumstances of being effectively made redundant after looking for part time hours, I would start small. And get rid of that over the top website too.
Success isn't just about who you are and what you do, it's about who you know. And they are already going about making connections with people and groups that will provide support, publicity, etc. for them and their foundation.

I don't necessarily agree with the way they've gone about everything, but I have no doubt they'll be successful in their future endeavors, particularly while they're together and doing it as a team. I think they have many skills and circumstances that complement each other- Harry has the name/BRF fame behind him (and even though they're no longer working members of the firm, that's going to stay forever) as well as experience with Invictus and Sentebale, and I think Meghan is extremely smart and resourceful, and now that she has the platform that she didn't have when she was simply a C-list actress, she can really put her good ideas forth and really bring about change. I like Harry but I don't think he's necessarily bright or skilled enough in those areas to do this sort of thing by himself, so with Meghan to run that side of things I think they'll be just fine. Now, if anything does happen, I think that Meghan will be perfectly fine in continuing to build a brand and foundation, but Harry would struggle on his own to continue with that work.
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  #158  
Old 02-15-2020, 12:01 PM
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things not turning out as you expected I believe you, like many folks, would find a new job.
Had I married into a job, as she did.. I'd certainly have given myself longer [5+years] to settle in - barely 12 months [if one includes the Maternity leave] isn't ANY time at all [unless one is 'flighty']..
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  #159  
Old 02-15-2020, 12:05 PM
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Not necessarily. It's also about responsibility; not everyone will run...

Being a member of the royal family comes with a lot of privileges as well as responsibility. So, if you've just committed for life (which Meghan did upon marrying) walking out only 1 1/2 years later because it is not what you expected (something that you should figure out before committing), doesn't show a lot of sense of responsibility but shows more a hedonistic worldview that life is all about me getting satisfaction (or thriving as she herself would say - which in her case clearly includes the satisfaction of 'doing good'/'being a force for change') - a very different point of view from the queen's who stresses duty - within which (probably more so as a member of the BRF than as the monarch) there is a lot of room to make a difference.

Harry was raised with a clear sense of what was expected from him - and while he clearly struggled at times, he also stressed how it brought him many opportunities. Leaving after relatively recently becoming a full-time royal, also shows that 'duty' and 'responsibility' are not as important to him either.

So, no, I don't think all would run. It depends on your values and how you see your purpose in life. It seems that currently their purpose in life is more about 'them doing good on their own terms' than about 'them contributing to the greater good as part of (their duty within) the monarchy'.

I don't consider it to be irresponsible to leave a job that you are miserable in and most folks don't have to contend with the immense media pressure/harassment/bullying etc. That would push things for the top for many.

Blaming this on Meghan is short sighted. Harry had talked multiple times publically about leaving. Based on the info we know, not Tabloid gossip, Harry is the driving force in this situation. It became untenable for them...he's talked about it since they left and made it very clear about his decision.

His past record shows he was very responsible and upheld duty. It's not like he left school gave it a couple years then took off. He served his country, risked his life for his country. It doesn't get any more dutiful and responsible than that.


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  #160  
Old 02-15-2020, 12:08 PM
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If the atmosphere around you is not ideal and actually unhealthy... you 100% should leave. No one should subject themselves to anything for the sake of appearances.

That goes for anyone.
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