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  #121  
Old 02-14-2020, 05:51 PM
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Charles could have endorsed the part time role that H and M sought, but I think he was worried about how it might turn out, and while they all do care about each other, Charles' main concern was and always is about being securing the monarchy for himself.
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  #122  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jannedde View Post
Charles could have endorsed the part time role that H and M sought, but I think he was worried about how it might turn out, and while they all do care about each other, Charles' main concern was and always is about being securing the monarchy for himself.
I think for the future of the monarchy in general, not specifically Charles, The Sussexes were too close to the crown to be earning money by renting themselves out as speakers or possibly endorsing something for payment—and still be representing the monarchy. The lines are too blurred. As a father, he may have liked the idea, but as the next monarch he had to be pragmatic.
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  #123  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:28 PM
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While I don't disagree with you, I also don't think there's anything at all wrong with pointing out that a lot of people's livelihoods depended on Harry and Meghan and there's a human cost to their decision. Yes, a couple of those people may be placed somewhere within the royal organization and one or two may be able to simply return to the position they were seconded from. However, that still leaves several who are simply out of a job. And while that's rough for anyone, it's got to feel like an especially tough kick in the teeth if you left another position to come to work for Harry and Meghan to then be let go almost immediately through no fault of your own. And, considering the level these people have now been employed at, finding a job won't be as easy as just becoming a secretary at the local factory. Most of them will need to look long and hard to find a comparable position and, for most people, that doesn't just happen overnight. It often takes months of searching while still employed. These people are now just unemployed and not because they were bad at their jobs but because they were unlucky enough to have employers who decided to up sticks and they got caught in the fallout. Yes, it might have been logical not to keep an office and staff but that doesn't mean that anyone here is erring by feeling bad for these people who got the short end of the stick.
That is life. They not the first nor will be the last to have to find new work. Turnover with the royals is quite large if we being honest. I can pull up plenty stories in the last year about people being let go in BP, CH, and KP... some as recently as a month or two ago.

They were informed last month after the Sandringham Summit details was official and honestly I am sure those in the know knew earlier than that this was a strong possiblity. They were told they couldn't continue working for the firm. The reality is that with no need for an office that there will not be one.

But again had they kept them on then people would be calling that into question. We all know it to be true. So I am failing to understand all this rumbling. You rather they just spend on the money having staff who are just there to be there? Now that is a waste of time and money for all.
  #124  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
Harry is swearing his allegiance as a UK citizen and 6th in line to the throne. He's not the next direct heir. The only issue is the fact he's a Prince. That's it.

If the UK believed this to be an issue, where are there laws restricting member of the Royal Family from holding dual citizenship?
There was no need for a law. If a member of the RF wants to do this, he or she can do so... but I daresay the RF never foresaw the possibility that one of htem would become an American citizen
  #125  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:07 PM
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Its also very possible that Harry could live in the USA for years and never become an actual US citizen.

This is what happened with my uncle who was Canadian. He resided in the US for decades with his wife (a US citizen) and his children). One of the reasons why he never sought out American citizenship is because having a son with severe CP, being a Canadian and his son a dual US/Canadian citizen, it gave them access to the Canadian heath care system.

As they lived in and around the Detroit area, Canada was basically a trip across a bridge. It worked well for them.
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  #126  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Its also very possible that Harry could live in the USA for years and never become an actual US citizen.

This is what happened with my uncle who was Canadian. He resided in the US for decades with his wife (a US citizen) and his children). One of the reasons why he never sought out American citizenship is because having a son with severe CP, being a Canadian and his son a dual US/Canadian citizen, it gave them access to the Canadian heath care system.

As they lived in and around the Detroit area, Canada was basically a trip across a bridge. It worked well for them.
Harry may have problems with remaining in Canada.. as he is not a Canadain citizen nor is Meghan. He will have to settle somewhere....
  #127  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Nobody would disagree with you on that I'm sure. What some posters are commenting on is the irony of a member of the royal family becoming (speculation of course) a US citizen & the nature of oath taking.
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here.. Even if Harry has applied for a Green Card (permanent residence status) in the US, it will take time to process and then he has to be a GC holder for 3 years before he can apply for citizenship. We have no idea what the situation is going to be in 4-5 years from now.
  #128  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:14 PM
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This is true. I'm sure they're aware of the finer details of all of this and are working on what will work best for all of them in the long run. Its another case of watching to see what happens next.

Its been an interesting stake out watching so far eh?
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  #129  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
They will be now. My personal opinion on the fact thry 'chose' to do that is not particularly repeatable. Harry has fallen from a height in my mind and his rather more 'closed' brother risen as a consequence.
Its not the same,though. Harry was always intended to be a full time royal and not to have to make a living, in commerce. The others like David Snowdon, have always been ordinary people, who have earned their own living and who choose to do some charity work because they are well to do and connected to the RF.
  #130  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jannedde View Post
Charles could have endorsed the part time role that H and M sought, but I think he was worried about how it might turn out, and while they all do care about each other, Charles' main concern was and always is about being securing the monarchy for himself.
I would say that as a father nothing is as important as the happiness of his children, period. As PoW and next in line, however, it's just a lot more complicated than "love". The Queen loves Harry, but she wasn't ever going to allow him to be a half-in, half-out Royal....and frankly there's no way that Charles did either. Your last statement smacks of not-so-subtle shade thrown at him- of course he's interested in securing the monarchy; so is the Queen, so were her predecessors.
  #131  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:43 PM
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From what I've read in the Canadian press it might be a problem for Harry to go from member of the royal family to Canadian citizen. I don't think Meghan will have an issue.
  #132  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I would say that as a father nothing is as important as the happiness of his children, period. As PoW and next in line, however, it's just a lot more complicated than "love". The Queen loves Harry, but she wasn't ever going to allow him to be a half-in, half-out Royal....and frankly there's no way that Charles did either. Your last statement smacks of not-so-subtle shade thrown at him- of course he's interested in securing the monarchy; so is the Queen, so were her predecessors.
I have to agree with you, Betsypaige, on this summary. On one hand you have the father/son relationship and on the other hand, the business side of the royal family and the monarchy of the UK.

HM, The Queen and her heir, The Prince of Wales putting the well being of the monarchy's business known as the "Firm" as their main concern will always come first when it pertains to the preservation of an institution that will run smoothly into the future ahead. Decisions made that affect the "Firm" show this to be true.

It doesn't ever detract from the father/son loving relationship or even the grandmother/grandson relationship and I'm willing to bet my last Mounds bar (which I don't bet too freely as I'm quite the Mounds bar hoarder) that the distinction between their business relationships and their familial relationships are well defined by those involved in them.
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  #133  
Old 02-15-2020, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I have to agree with you, Betsypaige, on this summary. On one hand you have the father/son relationship and on the other hand, the business side of the royal family and the monarchy of the UK.

HM, The Queen and her heir, The Prince of Wales putting the well being of the monarchy's business known as the "Firm" as their main concern will always come first when it pertains to the preservation of an institution that will run smoothly into the future ahead. Decisions made that affect the "Firm" show this to be true.

It doesn't ever detract from the father/son loving relationship or even the grandmother/grandson relationship and I'm willing to bet my last Mounds bar (which I don't bet too freely as I'm quite the Mounds bar hoarder) that the distinction between their business relationships and their familial relationships are well defined by those involved in them.
Exactly. This is not an ordinary family - the Queen left Charles and Anne for weeks sometimes in order to do her duty; I’m sure it broke her heart. Every parent has to say “no” to their children - this is no different, except the stakes are higher. Maybe Harry doesn’t care about the perpetuation of the monarchy, but others do, and so he couldn’t get everything he wanted. It doesn’t mean that his father doesn’t love him, and it doesn’t mean that Charles was only looking out for number one. On the contrary, he’s looking out for the future of the family and institution he was born into. William is doing the same thing. Maybe this is where some conflict is arising - Harry seems to have distinct lack of respect for the monarchy and the BRF as a whole.
  #134  
Old 02-15-2020, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Its not the same,though. Harry was always intended to be a full time royal and not to have to make a living, in commerce. The others like David Snowdon, have always been ordinary people, who have earned their own living and who choose to do some charity work because they are well to do and connected to the RF.
Apart from the original plan. What is the difference? Have to make their own money. Which is fine if the trips to give speeches is merely networking, and we still dont actually know how they are doing it. Their current independent wealth will not sustain their lifestyle. They are supporting charities, or wanted by them, because of link to BRF. The future is coming and that is the way it will be. There will be no super foundation. There won't be anything, they will have a few charities and others will fall away as they release there is nothing in it for them. I don't even get being a super foundation like the Clooneys. What Foundation? If they have one I don't know about it. What I do know is that they both have platforms and she is an extremely ssuccessful uccessful human rights lawyer and marriage to him gave her increased media. He has fame and sounds rather intelligent when he speaks. I don't mean to be hard on Meghan and Harry but they don't even have that. She gives good air time but her speeches are basically air with little to back it up. I mean the bananas. It is vacuous. And he well speaking is not his thing. Charming the pants of a scorpion is his thing. Good for smooshing and networking but not the practicalities.
  #135  
Old 02-15-2020, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
Apart from the original plan. What is the difference? Have to make their own money. Which is fine if the trips to give speeches is merely networking, and we still dont actually know how they are doing it. Their current independent wealth will not sustain their lifestyle. They are supporting charities, or wanted by them, because of link to BRF. The future is coming and that is the way it will be. There will be no super foundation. There won't be anything, they will have a few charities and others will fall away as they release there is nothing in it for them. I don't even get being a super foundation like the Clooneys. What Foundation? If they have one I don't know about it. What I do know is that they both have platforms and she is an extremely ssuccessful uccessful human rights lawyer and marriage to him gave her increased media. He has fame and sounds rather intelligent when he speaks. I don't mean to be hard on Meghan and Harry but they don't even have that. She gives good air time but her speeches are basically air with little to back it up. I mean the bananas. It is vacuous. And he well speaking is not his thing. Charming the pants of a scorpion is his thing. Good for smooshing and networking but not the practicalities.
Im inclined to agree that the charities of Meghan and Harry may get short time paid to them because they need to make money.
I think that they will find, particularly Harry, that networking to earn a living is time consuming.. and they may nto have a lot of time to devote them to visitng charities or raising money directly to help them.
Im not sure why we are disagreeing. I meant that they are not like the other royals like Snowdon etc who were never meant to do more thtan a bit of charity work ,and so don't need a whole lot of staff.. H and Meg did need a certain kind of staff set, to organise their representational and charity duties as royals. NOW as business people, they will have some staff but it wont be the same.
So the ones they were working with In the UK will be out of work, that's obvious. And I DO think that it was thoughtless of them. The RF don't pay that well but they have usually traditionally taken care of their staff and not fired them easily and if they had to go, tired to find them another job. (Possbily nowadays that old fashioned style has begun to fade away and they just give severance pay and that's it, I am not sure). But in this instance, H and Meg's decision to leave royal life HAS impacted on their staff.. just because they did not want to stay on in Royal life.

So I think it would be nice if we had some assurance that they did give their staff some heads up earlier and let them know that they would need to be seeking other work..
It really does seem to me, that they didn't give Royal life a chance. Yes Meghan got criticism from the tabloids.. but most new royals and old royals get criticism. Yes, they had some stress, but was it worse than the stress experienced by most people in tehir daily lives? WHy not at least give the job a few more years and if it didn't get better, during that time the RF could have been trying to plan (I Hope they would do so) to cover what would happen if the Sussexes DID decide to leave?
but I get the feeling that they were unhappy and it was "lets get out".... Its their choice and they are free to make it.. they can't be forced to stay. But it has impacted on various people..both the RF and the staff who worked for them... and there's bound to be negative comment about thtat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Exactly. This is not an ordinary family - the Queen left Charles and Anne for weeks sometimes in order to do her duty; I’m sure it broke her heart. Every parent has to say “no” to their children - this is no different, except the stakes are higher. Maybe Harry doesn’t care about the perpetuation of the monarchy, but others do, and so he couldn’t get everything he wanted. It doesn’t mean that his father doesn’t love him, and it doesn’t mean that Charles was only looking out for number one. On the contrary, he’s looking out for the future of the family and institution he was born into. William is doing the same thing. Maybe this is where some conflict is arising - Harry seems to have distinct lack of respect for the monarchy and the BRF as a whole.
I don't believe that Harry is much of a thinker. I feel he has a kind heart but he's not frankly that smart. So possibly he does not realise that he is able to transition out of the RF working party, and into an independent self funded life BECAUSE his father and the RF as a whole have managed to manage their money in such a way that they have enough to buffer him in the transition. If Charles had not been a very good hard working Duke of Cornwall, improving the estate so that it brings in a good income, he would not have the same money to keep on funding Harry until he becomes a self supporting worker himself. and to be brutal, if everyone in the RF decided to do what H and Meg have done, there would be no RF. If they all decided after some bad times "OK I've had enough Im not happy here, I want to leave".. and left.. where wuodl the RF be?
  #136  
Old 02-15-2020, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I don't believe that Harry is much of a thinker. I feel he has a kind heart but he's not frankly that smart. So possibly he does not realise that he is able to transition out of the RF working party, and into an independent self funded life BECAUSE his father and the RF as a whole have managed to manage their money in such a way that they have enough to buffer him in the transition. If Charles had not been a very good hard working Duke of Cornwall, improving the estate so that it brings in a good income, he would not have the same money to keep on funding Harry until he becomes a self supporting worker himself. and to be brutal, if everyone in the RF decided to do what H and Meg have done, there would be no RF. If they all decided after some bad times "OK I've had enough Im not happy here, I want to leave".. and left.. where wuodl the RF be?
Well the statistics on many things across the world would indicate that 'sometimes what people do when there are bad times is to leave. Whether that be many things. Of course we have to be mindful of increasing stress in day to day life. Nonetheless though. In an increasingly individualistic, instant gratification, mental health challenging populations, then to leave when things get tough is the norm. The ideal situation is to know the line.
  #137  
Old 02-15-2020, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I don't believe that Harry is much of a thinker. I feel he has a kind heart but he's not frankly that smart. So possibly he does not realise that he is able to transition out of the RF working party, and into an independent self funded life BECAUSE his father and the RF as a whole have managed to manage their money in such a way that they have enough to buffer him in the transition. If Charles had not been a very good hard working Duke of Cornwall, improving the estate so that it brings in a good income, he would not have the same money to keep on funding Harry until he becomes a self supporting worker himself. and to be brutal, if everyone in the RF decided to do what H and Meg have done, there would be no RF. If they all decided after some bad times "OK I've had enough Im not happy here, I want to leave".. and left.. where wuodl the RF be?

Trying to paint him as some sort of dull blade or stupid/dumb won't work. You don't fly helos, especially under stress of battle, without having some brains. Because he doesn't make decisions like you would or makes decisions you don't agree with doesn't mean he is not smart.

Perhaps if ppl had been allowed to live more as they wanted the RF wouldn't be facing this issue now? It's hardly some sort of real monarchy as it is. They are basically ambassadors for the country at this point.


LaRae
  #138  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:27 AM
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As I understand it, British citizens - I'm not sure of the rules for US citizens? - may stay in Canada for 6 months without any sort of residency visa. So they are going to have to make some longer term decisions before too much longer. None of this seems to have been thought out very well, but that can't go on indefinitely.
  #139  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
As I understand it, British citizens - I'm not sure of the rules for US citizens? - may stay in Canada for 6 months without any sort of residency visa. So they are going to have to make some longer term decisions before too much longer. None of this seems to have been thought out very well, but that can't go on indefinitely.
I expect that they will sort out something, but all the same, if they are going to live mainly in Canada, they will have to sort out the residential status. Perhaps they did intitally think they'd be flying back and forth a lot and the issue of staying for a longer time would not arise.. but apart from the fact that their UK charity/royal work has now been cut back, I don't think ti was really on for a couple with a very young child to hop back and forth, ie spend January in Canada, living a private life, then Feb in England doing some charity engagemetns and then hopping off again to do engagements of some kind maybe in the US. I think it woud have ended by Meghan being at home in Canada with the baby and Harry being the one to spend a few weeks in the UK to do his job there. So they really DO need to arrange to have permission to stay in Canada on a permanent basis for now as it seems to be their main home.

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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Trying to paint him as some sort of dull blade or stupid/dumb won't work. You don't fly helos, especially under stress of battle, without having some brains. Because he doesn't make decisions like you would or makes decisions you don't agree with doesn't mean he is not smart.

Perhaps if ppl had been allowed to live more as they wanted the RF wouldn't be facing this issue now? It's hardly some sort of real monarchy as it is. They are basically ambassadors for the country at this point.


LaRae
No idea what you mean by its hardly some sort of real monarchy? It is a real monarchy....
  #140  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:50 AM
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They are basically ambassadors for the country at this point.
Anything LESS 'Ambassadorial' is hard to conceive -unwilling to remain in the Country they vowed, just Months ago 'to serve'.. now off to live elsewhere [we know not where].

If their 'diplomacy' is of the standard indicated by the 'well thought out' manner of their 'bombshell' announcement, [and of their precipitate departure from the UK], it scarcely bodes well...

Why any organisation would employ so flighty a couple in an Ambassadorial role 'beats me'..
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