The Duke and Duchess of Sussex: Transition & Future

[Lumutqueen]

It’s amazing how genuinely stupid their PR machine has been these past couple of days. There is no way they couldn’t have known this redundancy story wouldn’t hit the news, and then they publish essentially a “job advert” of a social media video at the same time, it’s ridiculous.

[Zaira]

Originally Posted by Betsypaige

Oh wow......so, their repayment for loyalty to the Sussexes was to be laid off, with pretty much no potential to be reassigned. It would have been nice had Harry and Meghan taken the time to try and find positions for these people before flying off to Canada. I'm sad and annoyed all at the same time.

How do you know they are not working with their staff to help them land in other great positions?

Some, like Marnie, have been offered other roles in the household but have decided to take the severance package if you read the reporting. Fiona was seconded from Whitehall and will just go back to being a diplomat.

In terms of the Foundation staff, none have been announce beyond their board so it isn't true that they poached staff from the joint foundation. People are conflating the foundation with the royal household.

Staff reshuffle or are made redundant all the time. The Cambridges made some staff redundant last year.

I am honestly perplexed that people are making a big deal out of this. They wanted to still do royal work while pursuing financial independence, the Queen said no. It makes sense that they will not maintain a full staff.

[ladongas]

Am I mistaken, or are most royal positions rather poorly-paid in comparison to jobs on the outside?

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by acdc1

I’m interested in seeing what happens about Meghan gaining UK citizenship. I don’t believe she will because you have to live there for at least 9 months of the year and I don’t see them doing that, it’s been made very clear that they’ll be settling in North America for the most part.

That one is fairly easy I'd say: she is NOT going to be come a UK citizen. Unless their plans drastically change, she is not going to meet the requirements and I expect everyone to be savvy enough not to break the rules for her.

It will be interesting if they do settle in the US rather than Canada if Harry becomes a US citizen. Have there been any members of the royal family who became US citizens? Obviously Meghan and Archie are, and I believe one of Freddy Windsor’s daughters who was born in America has dual citizenship (but they appear to be living and raising the girls in the UK), but other than that I can’t think of any?

I don't think Harry can sincerely take the oath (that would be a huge blow to his father or brother (assuming it won't happen in his grandmother's lifetime)) but I also read that there is the option to modify or waiver, so if he would want to become a US citizen that would be the way to go.

Naturalization Oath of Allegiance;
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Note: In certain circumstances there can be a modification or waiver of the Oath of Allegiance. Read Chapter 5 of A Guide to Naturalization for more information.

Source: US CIS

[Denville]

Its going to be kind of awkard isn't it? Wife of a Prince.. in line to the British throne and she's not a British citizen...

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Source: US CIS

I don't know enough about these types of laws to comment definitively but it appears to me that should Harry decide to pursue US citizenship, he'll need to decide whether or not that oath or the oath of allegiance he'll be required to swear to the next sovereign will be more important. If I'm reading that correctly he won't be able to swear allegiance during the coronation as he would typically do AND still take the oath of allegiance as a US citizen. Correct?

Originally Posted by Denville

Its going to be kind of awkard isn't it? Wife of a Prince.. in line to the British throne and she's not a British citizen...

I'm somewhat certain they've long ago stopped caring about what might be seen as "awkward." This is a big part of the reason, though, that some posters have openly wondered about what lies ahead after this transition period and whether they will, after some time, abdicate or renounce Harry's place in the line of succession. Particularly because the future coronations he'd be expected to participate in as someone in the line of succession might be rather awkward and even possibly impossible as I noted above with my question about the oaths.

[CrownPrincessJava]

Originally Posted by _Heather_

I don't know enough about these types of laws to comment definitively but it appears to me that should Harry decide to pursue US citizenship, he'll need to decide whether or not that oath or the oath of allegiance he'll be required to swear to the next sovereign will be more important. If I'm reading that correctly he won't be able to swear allegiance during the coronation as he would typically do AND still take the oath of allegiance as a US citizen. Correct?

It sounds like most people here have forgotten a little concept called DUAL CITIZENSHIP.

Honestly, the discussion here is sounding like Prince Harry will be charged with treason. If he pursues dual, he can still swear to the next soverign, just like every other dual UK, Australian, Canadian must swear allegiance to the Queen/King.

[Somebody]

I wonder from what moment on Harry is no longer considered to be 'domiciled' in the UK; as in that case he no longer meets the requirement to be a Counsellor of State, meaning Princess Beatrice of York will take over (assuming that she is domiciled in the UK).

What would be the definition for domiciled? Their official address? Where they spend most time?

Edit: according to Wikipedia:

In law, domicile is the status or attribution of being a lawful permanent resident in a particular jurisdiction.

So, as long as Harry is considered a 'temporary resident' elsewhere, he could be considered to still be domiciled in the UK?!

Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava

It sounds like most people here have forgotten a little concept called DUAL CITIZENSHIP.

Honestly, the discussion here is sounding like Prince Harry will be charged with treason. If he pursues dual, he can still swear to the next soverign, just like every other dual UK, Australian, Canadian must swear allegiance to the Queen/King.

Did you read the naturalization oath of allegiance? Upon becoming a US citizen he has to swear to "renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity" to a foreign "power"; so, to his own close family members! So, while a dual citizenship from birth is no problem. And most countries don't require a person to utter such strong language (or more extreme: will require you to give up your previous citizenship), in this case it would be extremely awkward and disingenuous.

A dual UK, Australian and Canadian citizenship is very different: they share the same head of state...

[Durham]

Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava

It sounds like most people here have forgotten a little concept called DUAL CITIZENSHIP.

Honestly, the discussion here is sounding like Prince Harry will be charged with treason. If he pursues dual, he can still swear to the next soverign, just like every other dual UK, Australian, Canadian must swear allegiance to the Queen/King.

The American Republic was founded as a very clear rejection of the British monarchy, a repudiation of the The Queen's paternal grandmother's great grandfather in fact.

Just putting it out there - as they say across the pond

[acdc1]

Originally Posted by Somebody

That one is fairly easy I'd say: she is NOT going to be come a UK citizen. Unless their plans drastically change, she is not going to meet the requirements and I expect everyone to be savvy enough not to break the rules for her.



I don't think Harry can sincerely take the oath (that would be a huge blow to his father or brother (assuming it won't happen in his grandmother's lifetime)) but I also read that there is the option to modify or waiver, so if he would want to become a US citizen that would be the way to go.


Source: US CIS

Obviously there’s the option of dual citizenship, one wouldn’t expect Harry to give up his British citizenship completely. I’m guessing that’s where the modification would come in?

[Betsypaige]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

It’s amazing how genuinely stupid their PR machine has been these past couple of days. There is no way they couldn’t have known this redundancy story wouldn’t hit the news, and then they publish essentially a “job advert” of a social media video at the same time, it’s ridiculous.

While at the same time, they post that Vogue video on their website....good optics

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Somebody

So, as long as Harry is considered a 'temporary resident' elsewhere, he could be considered to still be domiciled in the UK?!

I would think that keeping Frogmore Cottage, paying rent and upkeep on the property year round would be considered being full time domiciled in the UK. There is no stipulation as to how long he actually has to physically reside there. Correct?

[CrownPrincessJava]

Originally Posted by Durham

The American Republic was founded as a very clear rejection of the British monarchy, a repudiation of the The Queen's paternal grandmother's great grandfather in fact.

Just putting it out there - as they say across the pond

And yet the US allows dual citizenship with commonwealth countries, who by virtue of their citizenship, swear an allegiance to HM The Queen/King.

Prince Harry is a UK citizen, who is not next in line to the throne AND is no longer representing the BRF. If he wishes to pursue dual citizenship, he should be free to do so.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I would think that keeping Frogmore Cottage, paying rent and upkeep on the property year round would be considered being full time domiciled in the UK. There is no stipulation as to how long he actually has to physically reside there. Correct?

Unless he does exactly the same with a different house where he actually lives (and does not pay just a symbolic amount of rent)... If (which of course is a big if) they would decide to go and live in the USA and he would apply for a green card he would become a permanent resident in the USA. Imho you cannot be domiciled at two different places.

[_Heather_]

Dual citizenship is certainly something to consider but most people who hold dual citizenship are not required to appear at a coronation and swear their allegiance to a newly crowned monarch. While I understand the concept, as do most people here, there's a huge difference between an average citizen holding dual citizenship and one who must swear his allegiance to a newly crowned monarch with the eyes of the world upon his but who also spoke the words required to obtain US citizenship. The wording of those two oaths very clearly contradict each other and would, in theory, mean that he'd need to decide on one or the other and not both. That, in fact, is what my question was regarding and whether anyone here was better placed than myself to comment on that because I don't know all of the legal and immigration intricacies around those matters. Trying to figure out the legality and practicality of a rather complicated situation really doesn't mean that other posters need to "get a grip" it simply means that everyone is doing their best to figure out how that will work in practice.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava

And yet the US allows dual citizenship with commonwealth countries, who by virtue of their citizenship, swear an allegiance to HM The Queen/King.

Prince Harry is a UK citizen, who is not next in line to the throne AND is no longer representing the BRF. If he wishes to pursue dual citizenship, he should be free to do so.

Nobody is contesting that. It would, however, be insincere (and impossible in good conscious) to both swear that you renounce all allegiance to a foreign prince and (publicly) swear allegiance to your father when he becomes king (as he is expected to do).

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Unless he does exactly the same with a different house where he actually lives (and does not pay just a symbolic amount of rent)... If (which of course is a big if) they would decide to go and live in the USA and he would apply for a green card he would become a permanent resident in the USA. Imho you cannot be domiciled at two different places.

This is actually a really good point. In my line of work we use the word "domiciled" quite frequently, actually, and our definition always boils down to "where they lay their head at night." There's a lot of big words and legal jargon and fancy language around it all but in the end, that's the definition we use of domiciled. If they're planning to make their home in North America with visits to the UK, even if some of those visits are "extended" for a few weeks at a time, then their domicile would be North America and their time in the UK only visits. If, however, their time truly is split 50/50 then there would be a complicated argument about their legal residence and domicile. Loads of people own vacation homes and visit there occasionally, sometimes even for a few weeks, but their actual legal residence is their main home. I'd imagine the same principle would apply here, though I can't really say for certain.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I would think that keeping Frogmore Cottage, paying rent and upkeep on the property year round would be considered being full time domiciled in the UK. There is no stipulation as to how long he actually has to physically reside there. Correct?

I don't think so....

[Durham]

Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava

And yet the US allows dual citizenship with commonwealth countries, who by virtue of their citizenship, swear an allegiance to HM The Queen/King.

Prince Harry is a UK citizen, who is not next in line to the throne AND is no longer representing the BRF. If he wishes to pursue dual citizenship, he should be free to do so.

Well yes of course he should & he is. The point surely is the (as yet hypothetical) irony of a member of the British royal family acquiring citizenship of the one country whose very genesis is anti (British) monarchist. The Declaration of Independence contains a very long list of grievances against the king.

[CrownPrincessJava]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Did you read the naturalization oath of allegiance? Upon becoming a US citizen he has to swear to "renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity" to a foreign "power"; so, to his own close family members! So, while a dual citizenship from birth is no problem. And most countries don't require a person to utter such strong language (or more extreme: will require you to give up your previous citizenship), in this case it would be extremely awkward and disingenuous.

A dual UK, Australian and Canadian citizenship is very different: they share the same head of state...

My sister-in-law, her husband and children are all dual Australian and American citizen. They were all born in Australia. They immigrated to the US some 20 years ago. Our citizenship requires us to swear allegiance to the Queen. Quite clearly the respective Australian and US governments did not care for the oath because if they did, the concept of dual citizenship would not exist.

Prince Harry is a UK citizen. He has the rights like every other UK citizen and he should be free to exercise them.