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  #641  
Old 02-23-2020, 11:26 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Monsey, United States
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
Harry & Meghan are right that it is true that there are titles members of the royal family that are/were allowed to work independently and still retain use of "HRH".

To date the most high profile are Beatrice and Eugenie. Like Harry, they are both grandchildren of the sovereign and have the style of "HRH".
I suspect the issue was that Harry & Meghan weren't stepping back to work for a single company or organization but were stepping back to really put themselves out there and commercialize themselves. Hence they were treated differently.
Yes, I suppose you are right. Listen, I'm no fan of MM. I believe she has stars in her eyes and is very opportunistic, but I think this whole thing could have been handled better on both sides. Harry and Meghan could have been more respectful in their departure, and the Queen, Charles and William could have just dealt with it as a family and not an institution. No one chooses what family they are born into, and if someone born into the royal family doesn't want to be a senior member, and wants to live a private life, then they should be able to do so without all the pomp and circumstance that comes with that decision, and all the bad blood. I mean even when QE's uncle abdicated and shunned it was ridiculous. He would have probably never done so if he had just been allowed to marry who he wanted. Look what happened when Charles was forced to marry Diana. It ruined his life, it ruined Diana's life, and it made a mess years later. It could have all been avoided if they were allowed to live their lives as they chose from the start. The same goes for Harry. Just let him live his life without all the talk about losing titles, etc. Because as we saw with Charles, in the end, it all works out the way it should have in the beginning. No need to make a mess of things at the start.
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  #642  
Old 02-23-2020, 11:34 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissPeach77 View Post
I have a question. Prince Harry and Meghan asked to not be senior members of the royal family and want to live a more private life. So since this happened it has become an uproar, they aren't allowed to use their royal titles, etc., but my question is you have royals like Princess Anne and Prince Edward who aren't really in the limelight. Prince Edward even owns a company that produces documentaries and other shows. Why is he allowed to live a private life and have a real job without being stripped of everything, but when Harry does the same he is ostracized for it? Anne's kids don't even have titles because she wanted them to have a normal life, but her kids are still accepted as part of the family without any controversy. It's not like Harry walked in and said I am disowning this family from my life and you will never see me again. He just wanted to step back from having to appear at things like cutting ribbons and breaking champagne bottles on new boats. I just don't get the double standard.

They aren't selling their titles. Edward, Sophie and Fergie tried to sell their royal connections back in the day and were firmly slapped down. More recently Peter tried to sell his royal connections in a milk ad and he was slapped down as well.


And Anne's kids don't have titles because their father wasn't royal.


Andrew's daughters have jobs. They aren't out there selling the fact that they have royal titles though I'm sure it helped them get their jobs.


It's not a double standard to anyone but Meghan and Harry. Get a job if you want one but don't "sell" your ties to the royal family for a profit.


No one said they couldn't leave the royal family. They just said they couldn't profit off their titles. None of them have been allowed to do that.
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  #643  
Old 02-23-2020, 11:42 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
Quote:
No need to make a mess of things at the start.
Indeed - so 'AT the start' [when the Couple married] why not make clear your ideas on your future ? Lay out clearly what you intend to do, and what you intend not to do ?

Don't accept the offer of an extremely grand Wedding/House/role and ducal Titles..

Had THEY been honest, and clear then, all this could have been avoided, and the Royal family, [and the British Public] not been left with the unpleasant feeling we'd all been 'led up the Garden path'..
  #644  
Old 02-23-2020, 12:37 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissPeach77 View Post
I have a question. Prince Harry and Meghan asked to not be senior members of the royal family and want to live a more private life. So since this happened it has become an uproar, they aren't allowed to use their royal titles, etc., but my question is you have royals like Princess Anne and Prince Edward who aren't really in the limelight. Prince Edward even owns a company that produces documentaries and other shows. Why is he allowed to live a private life and have a real job without being stripped of everything, but when Harry does the same he is ostracized for it? Anne's kids don't even have titles because she wanted them to have a normal life, but her kids are still accepted as part of the family without any controversy. It's not like Harry walked in and said I am disowning this family from my life and you will never see me again. He just wanted to step back from having to appear at things like cutting ribbons and breaking champagne bottles on new boats. I just don't get the double standard.
Edward does not do so any more. He and Sophie had to give up their businesses some years ago and became ful time Royal workers.
Anne's children do not have titles and were never intended to be part of the working family.. THey have always earned their own living..
Nobody is stopping Harry from dropping out of royal wrok, if that is what he wants to do...
  #645  
Old 02-23-2020, 12:40 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Derby, United States
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Indeed - so 'AT the start' [when the Couple married] why not make clear your ideas on your future ? Lay out clearly what you intend to do,

Had THEY been honest, and clear then, all this could have been avoided, and the Royal family, [and the British Public] not been left with the unpleasant feeling we'd all been 'led up the Garden path'..
I would say Harry did lay it all out...but the Firm said no.

We do not know for sure but just MAYBE they did tell the Queen what they wanted for their future, to step back and earn their own money. The Queen may have said no or letís wait and see, letís try it this way or that way. I firmly believe Harry wanted to leave the public life a long time ago, especially when his past gfís did not want to be part of the public and Royal life. Harry saw this more and more with each gf. Then there was William and Kate...the trio ran around together and They could have pressured Harry into staying on board. When Megan came along, Harry had support first from his gf who he kept silent about for some time, later his wife. They did IMO try the Royal life to appease the Queen...the Firmís pressure, but it appears it still was too much for Harry. He carried around a lot of grief and burdens since his mum died. Megan supported Harry in what ever he wanted to do....what was best for Harry. It may have taken longer but Harry would have left the spotlight and Firm. That is one reason why he stayed in the military he was away from the Firm and pressures, being as normal as possible. Yet, Harry left the military because he was called to come back...work the Firm. Most people blame Megan, everything is her fault, she changed Harry, she decided all of this, when I believe Harry wanted all this change years ago all Megan did was support Harry, her husband. Actually the blame goes to the Queen and Charles....they are very very old, old fashion. Change is not to be, they want things to stay the same, they want total control. Diana fought the Firm too and looked what happened. The Queen and Charles have not really modernized the Firm at all. In the future I would not be surprised to see that when William is King he will have no say so in the government at all. Just be a figure head of the Royal family. Other royal Families are slimming down, the siblings of the future monarchs are private citizens and have their own careers. This should be for the Firm too. This entire process went down because in the back ground, which we are not privy too, the Queen and Charles did not want change and William just went along with them. I am tired of the bashing of Megan as the problem for all of this, however this will continue. Harry looks a lot happier, he picked his own wife, his own way now and for the future for his family. I bet William is just a bit jealous for that freedom. Many, many of those here will not agree with me and thatís fine. We all have our own opinions. I just get real tired of the bashing of Megan, the fact that they were not upfront with EG he Firm, which IMO I believe they did tell them but the Firm wanted no change. Now it has come to the media and the world to make all the comments yet we do not know what happened behind closed doors, we can only assume or we actually say what we want to have happened. Like I said this is my opinion like others have theirs.
  #646  
Old 02-23-2020, 01:31 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,540
Nobody is ostracising Harry. He chose to leave, and then started issuing demands.


It was not ridiculous that Edward VIII had to abdicate. At that time, divorce was widely regarded as being socially unacceptable. There would have been a huge scandal even if Joe Bloggs from a small street in a small town had wanted to marry a divorcee. Many people at that time were pressurised into ending a relationship because their partner was of a different religion, or a different ethnicity, or a different social class, or deemed "unsuitable" for any other reason. Times were different then.


Charles was not "forced" to marry Diana. He was under pressure to find a suitable wife, but nobody held a gun to his head and dragged him down the aisle. And Camilla didn't want to marry him at that time anyway - she chose Andrew Parker Bowles.


As other people have said, there's an issue with Harry and Meghan wanting to trade off their titles. Maybe "Beatrice York" wouldn't have a top job if she were plain Beatrice Smith, and I doubt that Zara Tindall would be asked to be a brand ambassador just off her reputation as an Olympic showjumper, but they're not actually trading off the royal name.


If Harry wanted to get a 9-5 job and earn a basic salary and live off that, I can't see that anyone would object in the slightest. But he doesn't.
  #647  
Old 02-23-2020, 01:40 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Nobody is ostracising Harry. He chose to leave, and then started issuing demands.


It was not ridiculous that Edward VIII had to abdicate. At that time, divorce was widely regarded as being socially unacceptable. There would have been a huge scandal even if Joe Bloggs from a small street in a small town had wanted to marry a divorcee. Many people at that time were pressurised into ending a relationship because their partner was of a different religion, or a different ethnicity, or a different social class, or deemed "unsuitable" for any other reason. Times were different then.


Charles was not "forced" to marry Diana. He was under pressure to find a suitable wife, but nobody held a gun to his head and dragged him down the aisle. And Camilla didn't want to marry him at that time anyway - she chose Andrew Parker Bowles.


As other people have said, there's an issue with Harry and Meghan wanting to trade off their titles. Maybe "Beatrice York" wouldn't have a top job if she were plain Beatrice Smith, and I doubt that Zara Tindall would be asked to be a brand ambassador just off her reputation as an Olympic showjumper, but they're not actually trading off the royal name.


If Harry wanted to get a 9-5 job and earn a basic salary and live off that, I can't see that anyone would object in the slightest. But he doesn't.
Of course he doesn't. He and Meg clearly hoped to be able to use the Sussex Royal brand to sell goods and for the moment he will be able to use the fact that he is Prince Harry, to sell his speeches. Agree no one is ostracising Harry the RF have clearly tried to leave the door open for him, with the idea of a 12 month review..
  #648  
Old 02-23-2020, 01:41 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Scotland, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissPeach77 View Post
Yes, I suppose you are right. Listen, I'm no fan of MM. I believe she has stars in her eyes and is very opportunistic, but I think this whole thing could have been handled better on both sides. Harry and Meghan could have been more respectful in their departure, and the Queen, Charles and William could have just dealt with it as a family and not an institution. No one chooses what family they are born into, and if someone born into the royal family doesn't want to be a senior member, and wants to live a private life, then they should be able to do so without all the pomp and circumstance that comes with that decision, and all the bad blood. I mean even when QE's uncle abdicated and shunned it was ridiculous. He would have probably never done so if he had just been allowed to marry who he wanted. Look what happened when Charles was forced to marry Diana. It ruined his life, it ruined Diana's life, and it made a mess years later. It could have all been avoided if they were allowed to live their lives as they chose from the start. The same goes for Harry. Just let him live his life without all the talk about losing titles, etc. Because as we saw with Charles, in the end, it all works out the way it should have in the beginning. No need to make a mess of things at the start.
There was more to Edward v111's decision, if you read the history books or watch historical documentaries , it will provide more detail. It cannot be summarised in one sentence like you have here.
  #649  
Old 02-23-2020, 01:47 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Woodbury, United States
Posts: 2,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
There was more to Edward v111's decision, if you read the history books or watch historical documentaries , it will provide more detail. It cannot be summarised in one sentence like you have here.
Right, and this idea that the Queen and Charles should or could have handled this in-house as a family only and not an institution is naive....and impossible. Also, no one is preventing Harry from living his life...and the only bad blood seems to be coming from he and Meghan
  #650  
Old 02-23-2020, 01:55 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Scotland, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsJulie View Post
I would say Harry did lay it all out...but the Firm said no.

We do not know for sure but just MAYBE they did tell the Queen what they wanted for their future, to step back and earn their own money. The Queen may have said no or letís wait and see, letís try it this way or that way. I firmly believe Harry wanted to leave the public life a long time ago, especially when his past gfís did not want to be part of the public and Royal life. Harry saw this more and more with each gf. Then there was William and Kate...the trio ran around together and They could have pressured Harry into staying on board. When Megan came along, Harry had support first from his gf who he kept silent about for some time, later his wife. They did IMO try the Royal life to appease the Queen...the Firmís pressure, but it appears it still was too much for Harry. He carried around a lot of grief and burdens since his mum died. Megan supported Harry in what ever he wanted to do....what was best for Harry. It may have taken longer but Harry would have left the spotlight and Firm. That is one reason why he stayed in the military he was away from the Firm and pressures, being as normal as possible. Yet, Harry left the military because he was called to come back...work the Firm. Most people blame Megan, everything is her fault, she changed Harry, she decided all of this, when I believe Harry wanted all this change years ago all Megan did was support Harry, her husband. Actually the blame goes to the Queen and Charles....they are very very old, old fashion. Change is not to be, they want things to stay the same, they want total control. Diana fought the Firm too and looked what happened. The Queen and Charles have not really modernized the Firm at all. In the future I would not be surprised to see that when William is King he will have no say so in the government at all. Just be a figure head of the Royal family. Other royal Families are slimming down, the siblings of the future monarchs are private citizens and have their own careers. This should be for the Firm too. This entire process went down because in the back ground, which we are not privy too, the Queen and Charles did not want change and William just went along with them. I am tired of the bashing of Megan as the problem for all of this, however this will continue. Harry looks a lot happier, he picked his own wife, his own way now and for the future for his family. I bet William is just a bit jealous for that freedom. Many, many of those here will not agree with me and thatís fine. We all have our own opinions. I just get real tired of the bashing of Megan, the fact that they were not upfront with EG he Firm, which IMO I believe they did tell them but the Firm wanted no change. Now it has come to the media and the world to make all the comments yet we do not know what happened behind closed doors, we can only assume or we actually say what we want to have happened. Like I said this is my opinion like others have theirs.
The Queen does not have any say in the government at the moment , so there will be no change there when Charles and then William become king.

If the BRF had not moved on with the times there would not have been a marriage between Meghan and Harry or at least not the public event supported by the public and family they chose to invite.

I would have been more surprised if the family had not tried to keep them within the firm, and tried to persuade them to stay.
I am not sure why that would be a fault.
They can maybe see that he is not moving away from the publicity and the pressures but instead moving towards different pressures.

The point appears to be that they want to earn money for their charities. I am not sure how they could not have done that as working members of the family.

The pair of them together could have blazed a trail with fund raising but do not want to do it as part of the BRF.

Could somebody tell me how they are going to be financially independent?
Do they intend earning money for themselves as well as charity funding, who decides what money is for what.
  #651  
Old 02-23-2020, 01:58 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 10,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
There was more to Edward v111's decision, if you read the history books or watch historical documentaries , it will provide more detail. It cannot be summarised in one sentence like you have here.
Indeed. With everything that has come to light about "David" and his ladylove since the Abdication, I am stunned that anyone still sympathizes with his desire to marry Wallis and assume the throne.

Yikes.
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  #652  
Old 02-23-2020, 02:16 PM
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Please be reminded that whilst this thread is closed, so is the topic. Please do not attempt to continue the discussion in other threads as such posts will be be deleted.
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