The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to Step Back as Senior Royals: January 2020


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I hope the Sussexes will at least visit the UK in private but it seems that, judging from the tone of their statement when they said that Archie will have "an appreciation" for his royal background, they won't be spending much time in the UK at all. Which is a shame for George, Charlotte and Louis as they won't get to see their cousin much (though at least they seem to be close with the Tindall and Phillips children), and particularly as well for Prince Philip and HM, who are getting older so sadly won't have many years left of enjoying time with Archie. On the flip side, though, they are still keeping Frogmore so hopefully this means they will be planning more visits.
 
This whole debacle has been most unfortunate. Whilst HM have every right to retreat form royal life, and HMQ has handled it perfectly, they picture HM paint is a desperate one. They seem so detached from reality. Most people who are struggling with family life and hate their jobs don't have the option of just picking up and moving away to a secluded island. It sends a horrible message to people struggling everywhere. I'm disappointing in them, and disappointment can only come when you care, so I hope they realize how much the royal family and public do care about them.

However I think the reaction of the British press to HM will be something that will be looked back on with embarrassment. The misogyny and bigotry is rife and ppl are in such denial about it its borderline hilarious. Between Brexit, Megxit, Scottish Nationalism, the Queens impending demise, the UK really needs to self-reflect on what kind of nation they are and want to be.

I do worry for Harry though. Meghan was fine before Harry and will be fine without Harry but the Duke has given up everything he's known for her. That's not a healthy sign in a relationship. While I wish them the best and hope they find peace I worry that Harry is on track to becoming Meghan's father. A sad lonely man detached from his whole family. But thats just me being a pessimist, hopefully this new life for them will only bring them joy and a happy, successful marriage.
 
I hope the Sussexes will at least visit the UK in private but it seems that, judging from the tone of their statement when they said that Archie will have "an appreciation" for his royal background, they won't be spending much time in the UK at all. Which is a shame for George, Charlotte and Louis as they won't get to see their cousin much (though at least they seem to be close with the Tindall and Phillips children), and particularly as well for Prince Philip and HM, who are getting older so sadly won't have many years left of enjoying time with Archie. On the flip side, though, they are still keeping Frogmore so hopefully this means they will be planning more visits.

Nor for Charles, either...people forget that he’s in his 70’s, so while he could have many years left, he’s not young. He himself never got to know his grandfather as George VI died in his early 50’s, so the fact that he won’t get to know Archie is terribly sad...

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex will pay towards their own security if they are commercially successful, in a model echoing Tony Blair’s own arrangements.

The couple are offering a contribution towards their security bill, currently funded by taxpayers, after they complete their transition from working Royals.

A well-placed source said the couple planned to reimburse the taxpayer for security provided on private business engagements with no Royal connection.

The source said the payment model would be similar to one that was put in place for Mr Blair, who has earned millions of pounds travelling the world brokering a variety of deals.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1579729969
 
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Nor for Charles, either...people forget that he’s in his 70’s, so while he could have many years left, he’s not young. He himself never got to know his grandfather as George VI died in his early 50’s, so the fact that he won’t get to know Archie is terribly sad...

Yes, very true. It's pretty sad for the family. Charles seems to be close to his sons so it'll be a shame for him that he won't get to see Archie as much as usual.
 
Nor for Charles, either...people forget that he’s in his 70’s, so while he could have many years left, he’s not young. He himself never got to know his grandfather as George VI died in his early 50’s, so the fact that he won’t get to know Archie is terribly sad...


I don't think he'll ever get to know Archie. Meghan isn't going back to the UK. That means Archie isn't either. She left him behind with friends this last time she went back and she didn't even go back for the talks with the queen.


Meghan doesn't even have contact with her own family. With the exception of her mother relatives on both sides have never met Archie. So why would she let Harry's family have contact with him?
 
a model echoing Tony Blair’s own arrangements.

IF this is [remotely] accurate it proves just how detached from ANY reality this deluded couple are !

If they are seen to 'take lessons' from him [on any subject] they are finished in this Country.
 
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I don't think he'll ever get to know Archie. Meghan isn't going back to the UK. That means Archie isn't either. She left him behind with friends this last time she went back and she didn't even go back for the talks with the queen.


Meghan doesn't even have contact with her own family. With the exception of her mother relatives on both sides have never met Archie. So why would she let Harry's family have contact with him?

Harry is Archie’s father; she doesn’t get to unilaterally decide if Archie gets to know his family...and if Harry allows her to make that decision, he’s as guilty as she is
 
[...] if Blair'es paying for his own protection good for him...
 
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Will pay towards their own security - how much? A pound? A million pounds? You may love or hate Tony Blair but he started and finished the job he was paid to do. Harry quit.


His security shouldn't be compared to Tony Blair, a former PM, but to his cousins Beatrice and Eugenie. As I recall they were stripped of their security - not because they quit but because the British public didn't want to pay for security for lesser members of the royal family.


I don't know how that works now - are they still paying for their own security? I remember when it was stripped the Mail Online posted a picture of them looking frightened sitting alone in a pub without any security.


But if Beatrice and Eugenie are paying for their own security then Harry and Meghan should be too.
 
And if they are not "commercially successful", will Charles pay for it ?

:D:D:D


If they aren’t successful, they might have to move in with him, lol, just like so many adult children in America do, lol
 
I don't think they'll ever take Archie back to the UK. It occurs to me that Meghan knows about the rule that says the Queen gets to have say over what happens to her grandchildren so that's the last the Queen or Charles will see Archie.


I don't know that Meghan will ever go back either. I think that Harry will if these occasions come up.


We'll see what they do.

I have no clue if Meghan will be coming back to the UK (the theory that she’ll never set foot on UK soil again strikes me as overwrought), but this idea about custody of Archie is insane.

Do people actually think The Queen would take Archie from Harry and Meghan or bar his departure from the UK? Why? What would be the benefit to her and why would it outweigh the inevitable blowback and bad publicity?

We have no idea how frequently Harry and Meghan will be back to the UK, but the idea that the Queen would assert custody and prevent Archie from leaving the country is beyond silly.
 
I have no clue if Meghan will be coming back to the UK (the theory that she’ll never set foot on UK soil again strikes me as overwrought), but this idea about custody of Archie is insane.

Do people actually think The Queen would take Archie from Harry and Meghan or bar his departure from the UK? Why? What would be the benefit to her and why would it outweigh the inevitable blowback and bad publicity?

We have no idea how frequently Harry and Meghan will be back to the UK, but the idea that the Queen would assert custody and prevent Archie from leaving the country is beyond silly.




I didn't say the queen would - I said that Meghan might think the Queen might. And the fact that she left Archie in Canada for the five minutes she showed up in the UK tells me that she probably isn't going to take Archie to the UK anytime soon.


Harry might speak up and take him there himself - but at the moment he's pretty much doing what Meghan wants. So I doubt it will be in the near future.
 
Lilyflo, thanks for posting that chart.
It shows that, by far, the Millennials differ most from all other groups in society in their opinions about who they like.

Harry and Meghan are highest in popularity in the Millennial age range too. Harry and Meghan will, no doubt, tailor their new roles and opportunities around statistics like that when they are designing their business.
 
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Actually that one varies. It was being discussed a while back under an article about Angelina Jolie. Her kids get papped all the time and no one blurs their faces. Apple Paltrow on the other hand had her face blurred for years - it's only recently that you can see her unblurred.


I was told it depended on what the parents did. If you never let anyone take your child's photo willingly you could go to court and insist the pictures be blurred. That's what Gweneth Paltrow did for years. Then she started using Apple's picture on her goop website and all bets were off.


Angelina on the other hand sold her children's pictures at birth. Even though she gave the money to charity she couldn't demand they blur the pictures since she'd put them out there.


I'm not sure where Archie would fall in this. They have put his picture out there but not for commercial gain.

I'm not sure how law "varies." Not everyone is caught of course. But it's the law. Just as in Great Britain, not all laws are enforced effectively.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/anti-paparazzi-law-should-kids-be-left-out-of-the-picture

Further, the State Supreme Court has upheld the Princess Diana law (criminal penalties for those who commit any vehicular infraction while attempting to photo a celebrity)

Of course, we also allow medical marijuana for school children.

And zoning laws that, if understood properly by the celebrity buyer (who has a good lawyer and real estate agent) make it so that a great deal of privacy can be purchased.
 
No, Thank You. Canada does not have millions of dollars to waste on security for private individuals who might repay if they are successful. Take this "deal" and see if you can find a bank that will loan you the money to pay for your security in exchange for repayment if you meet your definition of successful

I couldn't read the rest of the article as I don't have the premium subscription to the Telegraph; is that what was suggested?

There's this:

More than 80,000 Canadians have signed a petition demanding that Prince Harry and Meghan pay for their own security as the cost of Megxit continued to spiral.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10799...tion-canadians-demanding-megxit-pay-security/

Lastly, might I advise Oprah to bone up on the facts before making comments in favor of her buddies? Unfortunately our TV happened to be on Entertainment Tonight, one of those American celebrity/entertainment shows, and there was a clip of Oprah saying that the BRF wasn't blindsided, that they knew about Harry and Meghan's plans for months. :bang::bang::bang:
 
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10799...tion-canadians-demanding-megxit-pay-security/

Lastly, might I advise Oprah to bone up on the facts before making comments in favor of her buddies? Unfortunately our TV happened to be on Entertainment Tonight, one of those American celebrity/entertainment shows, and there was a clip of Oprah saying that the BRF wasn't blindsided, that they knew about Harry and Meghan's plans for months. :bang::bang::bang:

Even the MP for the area they live in has said that they should pay for their own security. At this point, if the government insists on paying for their security, I suspect Trudeau will be out of a job soon.

Oprah is not, and has not ever been in the business of presenting facts. She has an financial investment in Harry and Meghan being successful--Harry has at the very least collaborated with her on something regarding mental health. She is trying to do what she can to ensure that these collaborations are a ratings success and make her money.
 
Even the MP for the area they live in has said that they should pay for their own security. At this point, if the government insists on paying for their security, I suspect Trudeau will be out of a job soon.


The Canadian government has not said that it will pay for their security. All the PM said is that he had not had a conversation with the Queen about it. Some are stirring this pot for political reasons, not because of they care or do not care about Meghan and Harry. I wish people would "keep calm and carry on" until the facts are known.
 
...

I do worry for Harry though. Meghan was fine before Harry and will be fine without Harry but the Duke has given up everything he's known for her. That's not a healthy sign in a relationship. While I wish them the best and hope they find peace I worry that Harry is on track to becoming Meghan's father. A sad lonely man detached from his whole family. But thats just me being a pessimist, hopefully this new life for them will only bring them joy and a happy, successful marriage.

While I agree with some of your thoughts, I have more faith than you seem to in Harry & Meghan as a young couple with positive goals and worthy aspirations.

I think that Harry and Meghan have both made tremendous sacrifices for each other and for the health of their relationship. With the birth of their son, apparently they became determined to forge a happier life together, free of the more confining constraints of royal life. In particular, there was scant publicly vocal support by Harry's family against the media tirade that has relentlessly targeted Meghan. Harry may have found that difficult to swallow.

As we know, Harry made clear in his recent speech to Sentebale supporters that ultimately he is the one who made this decision for his family.

It's sad about M's father, but there's no accounting for how demons can swallow people whole. Harry has his own personality, which I doubt is anything like that of M's father. OTOH, I believe that young Archie is showing signs of likely taking after senior Markle's large frame. Archie is such a big baby for 8 1/2 months old -- he will probably grow taller and larger of frame than Harry. ?

Its really so sad to think that just 18 months ago Megan and Harry s wedding was such a huge brilliant event .... the weather was perfect.... the wedding was televised all around the world .


There was such a feel good factor towards Megan and Harry ..... and then May 2019 ... the birth of Archie....
It was all set fair ... they were the new Charles and Di ready to tour the world as ambassadors.... the new glamorous Royals...


How did it all go so wrong ?
I remember that in June 2019 the weather was grim in the UK .... the wettest June on record..... Maybe Megan took a look around and thought of the warmth and blue skies of California and thought.... Im outa here....


She is obviously too independent and self willed to conform to life in the Royal Family .....
its just not her scene....

:eek: Well, looking back, the palace leaks to the press and the negative stories against Meghan's character began as soon as M&H returned from their hugely successful and publicly well-received South Pacific tour.

So apparently, not everyone has had the same expectations as you, nor have viewed Harry & Meghan in the same light you are describing. Let's also remember that Charles & Di did not really have a great relationship or understanding of each other from the very beginning of their ill-fated union.

There was commentary last fall by a high profile RR that M&H needed to 'dim' their light, whatever that means. :ermm:
 
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Even the MP for the area they live in has said that they should pay for their own security. At this point, if the government insists on paying for their security, I suspect Trudeau will be out of a job soon.

Oprah is not, and has not ever been in the business of presenting facts. She has an financial investment in Harry and Meghan being successful--Harry has at the very least collaborated with her on something regarding mental health. She is trying to do what she can to ensure that these collaborations are a ratings success and make her money.

They really need to - it’s not like they were invited to live in Canada, they just decided they were going to. The whole security issue is based in the fact that they are Royal, but they really kind of aren’t... are they ? Would other non-working royals get security if they came to Canada - or US?

I guess Oprah will be like their PR person - people love her, so they’ll believe anything she says about Meghan and Harry
 
What exactly are you basing Oprah going to be their PR person on? Because she (and Hoda too!) was asked and gave her opinion about the Sussexes' decision? I'm not sure how that somehow translates into her speaking on their behalf.

LaRae
 
What exactly are you basing Oprah going to be their PR person on? Because she (and Hoda too!) was asked and gave her opinion about the Sussexes' decision? I'm not sure how that somehow translates into her speaking on their behalf.

LaRae

I'm going to guess that people are seeing at least Oprah in the same light as they see Jessica and Amal now, sort of unofficial spokespeople. If she were truly just a well known television personality that was asked her opinion and answered I doubt people would see her as an unofficial spokesperson. However, considering she has personal connections to Meghan and Harry, she would seem to have a bit of an "in" or an insight into what they may be thinking, the circumstances, etc.
 
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What exactly are you basing Oprah going to be their PR person on? Because she (and Hoda too!) was asked and gave her opinion about the Sussexes' decision? I'm not sure how that somehow translates into her speaking on their behalf.

LaRae

I was kidding, lol....my sarcastic sense of humor doesn’t translate on line, I guess !
 
Now that I've read nearly 4300 posts :ohmy::ohmy::ohmy: it's time for me to add my two pennyworth.

When I first heard of this a couple of weeks ago, my first reaction was that Harry and Meghan want to have their cake and eat it too. My next reaction was, it's not so much the WHY they did it, but the problem lies in HOW. And it seems as though 95% of posters in this thread think the same.

And my other reactions (in no particular order):

What about their engagement spiel when they said, as I recall, they weren't going to read the press. Seems they've done nothing but. And only the bad press. What about all the good stuff – and there has been lots. I know this cause i only tend to read the positive articles, unless written by someone who really knows their onions re the BRF. I only go onto DM for the pictures, although I have read the odd article but NEVER the comments. And I never buy those trashy magazines at the supermarket where they always have the most unflattering pics of Camilla, Beatrice, Eugenie, always with the mention of the word 'feud', always 'officially' telling us Kate is pregnant yet again (how many babies does that make now :lol: so it is easy to avoid the negative stuff.

I know those comments are out there, but look at the good stuff. Take a typical picture of regular people meeting the RF – look how happy they look. Look at the crowds that turned up for H&M's wedding; they were certainly happy. Happy faces always seem to surround royal turnouts. I think you'd have to out of your way to read all those negative media articles. I know it's not about me, but I certainly find sticking to Hello or Majesty keeps me happy. I don't need to see pap pictures. And if I want to read constructive criticism, i come here to this forum cause i know royalty's not always sweetness and light. And I know us forum people know what's true and correct and what's made up. Well, nearly always.

It's certainly put paid to a potential thread as to when Meghan's going to receive the Family Order. Not to mention the future wearing of serious bling!

In Canada/North America H won't have the support of his friends and family close by. Of course to be fair we could say the same of M in England.

Two years is certainly not enough time to relax into the job.
Of course 'they' say that the first two years of a relationship is a honeymoon period, where you view your partner as perfect and can do no wrong, and it's only when you settle into real life that you can see them (and love them hopefully) warts and all. I've always believed H&M rushed into the marriage, although I can see why, given her age and we certainly know H wanted children. But as many, many others have pointed out, those who lasted the distance BEFORE their engagements have lasted the distance WITHIN the RF, Sophie, Kate etc. Autumn. Jack Brooksbank, although it's quite early yet with Eugenie, but I see absolutely no problem there.

In the words of that 'other' fabulous Queen:
"I want it all, I want it all, I want it all – and I want it NOW!"

I certainly believe H&M started off their marriage really wanting to get into it all and do the right thing, the flowers on her veil testify to that. I do think they really tried and I do get they had problems. But not to stay and work it out? Not to have any staying power? Ask The Queen about staying power. Ask the Duke about loyalty.

I think H will live to regret their/his decision to step away. He's never lived in the real world – and if he has any idea that those of us who are not burdened by life in the RF don't have any problems, well he has another think coming. I mean, taking six weeks off before Christmas – that's not gonna fly in the real world. And working 40 hours a week 48 weeks a year is not always a bundle of laughs.

And this business of suing the media that seems to have started up, although to most of us 'great unwashed' having millions in the bank seems just fine and dandy, in the world of the super rich, I don't think H&M are in that league, and suing people is just going to bite into their savings mighty quickly.

H said the other day that he made the final decision; that they wanted to serve but without taking public money. Well, that's just plain silly. If they were allowed to do that, what about the rest of the RF – and before you know it, no one's getting anything to do the Royal job, and then there's just no RF at all. Money is needed. The RF deserve to get 'paid' for what they do. All the ceremonial and charity stuff they do, it doesn't come cheap to set that up. And it all does such a power of good.

I first started getting annoyed with H&M when they said that Archie would not be taking a style and would be plain Master. This is my point of view – Royalty/Monarchy, it's an artificial construct. They have no real power. They're not really needed. But, boy, do they add a bit of magic to a dull life (like mine :) And of course they do a power of good. But it's up to them to keep their side of the bargain – they do the Royal engagements, show up, smile, say the right things, wear the right tiara, and we, the people, turn up to see them do it. We support them, they support us; it's teamwork. But when one of the team says he doesn't want to play the game, doesn't want to do it anymore except on their own terms, well it lets the public down.

And then that documentary. Said their pieces without even thinking, there they are in a country where an enormous amount of people find it difficult to even LIVE let alone survive, with no chance at all of ever thriving, well it was totally the wrong forum. And as for H confirming he and William were having problems, why feed the beast? If you don't want media outbursts, don't feed them. And don't let William down at the same time; I thought you were going to have his back. Keep your brotherly squabbles private. And then for Meghan to say to a group of women, 'I am here as your sister, as a woman, as a woman of colour' (or words to that effect), well, no, Meghan, you were there because you were Royal, as a member of the BRF. You and H were asked to go, it wasn't your idea. And here's another to add to an avalanche of niggles – she never seemed to understand that H was the one who should go first, she only married in to the family, he was the born Royal. Now, back here in the 'real' world, I totally would agree that women are equal to men, totally agree, but it's not how the RF works. ANd it's not that she's a woman, Tim Laurence knows how to step back too, and the DoE is of course a past master. Certainly she should have a voice, but not THE voice of the couple. JMO of course.

And as for that wish list on the SussexRoyal website... don't get me started.

Of course we shouldn't compare, but some other Royal wives whose names begin with K or S (or husbands beginning with T for that matter), have just got down, buckled up, and done all those mundane engagements without fail, and it's NEVER mundane to someone who's gone to the trouble of being there when a Royal person goes by. I myself in all my long long years (heh heh) have seen the Queen Mother, The Queen, Duke, Charles, Anne and even Diana, here in NZ. I travelled out of my way to see them, took time off work, and was so happy when I just got a glimpse. Doesn't take much to make me happy ? I wouldn't go anywhere to meet a politician or a 'celebrity'. Royalty is magic to me. I'd rather not hear about their problems – I have enough of my own. PS I'm two years older than Diana would have been and yes, it was Diana that started off my interest in royalty. And she was just so lovely at the start before it all turned to custard. But that's another thread.

All my own honest opinions above, not meant to upset anybody.

As the song goes: "It's sad, so sad, it's a sad sad situation..." and I can't see it ending well...
 
:previous:



Well said! I couldn’t agree more.
 
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Ellie, I agree with everything you’ve said...and yay that someone else also thinks H and M ate going the way of Veruca Salt, lol

They’ve let their family and many people down. They’ve shown an unfortunate sense of entitlement and an astonishing lack of awareness (that Africa interview, my god). The BRF is about duty, sacrifice and commitment ...they’ve not shown any of these. Consider the Queen, who lost her beloved father at a young age because he gave his life to the crown; no wonder she’s so disappointed. She sacrificed precious family time, Philip sacrificed his career...I could go on.

Harry and Meghan talk of family, but they’re devastating the BRF and separating Archie from grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles that he’ll never know...
 
:previous: I had been team Harry and Meghan but not so much now, after the big mess they've caused. I still wish them well but I'm pretty much done.
 
A lot of people emigrate, for one reason or another, and raise their children in another country. With people leaving the UK, it's usually for another English-speaking country, so Australia, New Zealand, the US or Canada, none of which allow for regular visits if you're an ordinary person with limited funds and only a few weeks' annual leave from work every year. But that doesn't mean that the children can't have a relationship with their grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc, especially in these days of Skype and Facetime. Even in Queen Victoria's day, they used to be writing letters all the time. It's up to Harry and Meghan. They can put Archie on Facetime to Prince Charles every day, if they want. I somehow doubt that they will, but the distance itself doesn't have to mean that Archie won't have a relationship with the Royal Family, or indeed with the Spencers.
 
I didn't say the queen would - I said that Meghan might think the Queen might. And the fact that she left Archie in Canada for the five minutes she showed up in the UK tells me that she probably isn't going to take Archie to the UK anytime soon.


Harry might speak up and take him there himself - but at the moment he's pretty much doing what Meghan wants. So I doubt it will be in the near future.

Yeah because not wanting to drag a seven month old across the world for 48 hours is insane. I mean it’s a clear sign her son will never fly again.

Sorry have yet to see one Rational argument From you as to why you think Meghan will never return to the UK or allow her son. Or for that matter one rational reason Harry would allow her to control it all.

They have both said they will continue with their British charities. They have kept Frogmore as a Family home. They have said that Archie will know his family and his home country. Where in this do you see them saying he will never come back.

Meghan is not an idiot. She also doesn’t think that the queen or Charles are after her. And FYI if the queen wanted Archie he wouldn’t have to be in the UK. Canada would enforce custody and Meghan knows that. Meghan isn’t hiding in some country with no extradition treaty believing he will be taken.

Meghan grew up in a broken family. Her siblings were grown up before she was born. Until her father started selling her out literally to the press. She had a relationship with her mom as well as a niece and nephew.

I see people using her broken relationship as excuse why she tries to destroy Harry who seems to be a mindless sock puppet to you and his family. When really it’s the exact opposite. Why does William love the Middletons? Because he gets the close family he missed. Meghan is the same way. Meghan was extremely close to her grandmothers before they died and a grandfather. There is no rational reason to suggest she’d want less for her son.

They plan to divide their time between countries. When they are back in Uk for less then two days Archie will surely come.
 
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